Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?

Subject: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Barry T
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 01:09 PM

Start of rant...

I was about to start a thread to review Celtic Woman II on PBS. I quickly realized that we would probably repeat the same slam-and-praise cycle from our review of the first production.

Instead, I'll focus comment on and question the practice of lip-synching... the one hugely annoying practice that forces me to give this television production a regretful thumbs down.

All of the performers are great, with solid reputations and legions of fans. Putting aside the satin gowns and fog, the vocal arrangements, especially the four-part harmonies, were excellent. And I just loved Órlagh Fallon's harp and vocal interpretation of Carrickfergus. But I gritted my teeth everytime a close-up revealed exquisite vibrato from all the ladies... without so much as a murmur of a throat muscle! I felt the same watching Máiréad Nesbitt, who apparently played flawlessly while performing Celtic floor gymnastics!

I can understand the producers wanting the DVD of the production to be spot on, but I would feel cheated if I purchased the DVD. I'd be interested in hearing from folks who have seen Celtic Woman live in concert. Do they 'sing' (really) at those events?

The nearest opportunity for me to see CW II this year would be Seattle. Would I drop over 500 bucks for tickets, over the border travel and accommodation to watch lip-synching? File that possibility under 'You gotta be kidding!"

Makes me wonder: Just how widespread is this technique in televised musical productions? Is anyone 'for real'?

...end of rant.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Bernard
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 02:21 PM

As I've been involved in the recording of such material, perhaps I can explain...

What tends to happen is the items are performed two or three times prior to the concert, so that close-up shots can be taken without the cameras intruding too much into the concert itself.

The audio track is one 'genuine' take (normally the concert itself), but the video could be from any of the other 'takes', which means the video editor has to try to match the video with the audio. How well they do it is often more to do with how consistent the performer is rather than the skill of the editor.

So it may appear to be 'lip-sync' when really it isn't. I can't comment on the Celtic Woman concert, as I wasn't involved, but maybe this answers your question?

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 03:40 PM

a rip off

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Celtic Woman in Concert
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 10:14 PM

I just attended a Celtic Woman concert in Manchester, NH. The woman playing the violin and jumping around the stage while playing perfectly, raised my suspicions. During the show, I noticed one time she was not playing her violin yet I continued to hear violin music.

The voices also seemed to perfect without any strain or chest heave. The whole thing seemed fake.

Also, this is the first concert I have attended in years that did not feature a big screen with close up shots.

Nice music but something seemed out of whack.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 08:48 AM

Is 'lip-synching' what pretentious tossers call 'miming'?

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: danensis
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 12:14 PM

When we filmed Vin Garbutt on an island in Loch Lomond, we got the 24 hours of video tape back to the studio, and found that the soundtrack had an annoying buzz on it, which hadn't been picked up at the time of recording. It clearly was not practical to lug thirty odd people and ten tons of equipment back to Inch Murrin, so Vin kindly agreed to go into the studio and post-sync all his set. He did quite well, there are a couple of place where it was noticeable, but generally its spot on.

John

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 01:26 PM

I've only watched a small portion of the "Celtic Women" show. I just found it to be too big of a production for my personal taste. I've no doubt, others will enjoy it immensely but as to your question re Lip Synching... Whether they are or are not lip synching on this particular show, I don't know but when it happens, isn't the performer admitting that he/she can't actually do what you're paying them for? That, to me is a rip off?
GUEST,Shimrod: Yes. That's what we call miming now. Don't know why. I suppose they're giving credit to the technicians rather than the artists. Hey! Makes sense when you think of it.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Rasener
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 01:57 PM

I think a DVD is not a problem.

I recently saw a very good trio perform at Lincoln City Football Club ground live. I was so turned off becuase they had a musical backing that they sang to. It was pre recorded.

Can't stand that.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 01:58 PM

My wife had remarked to me, a couple of weeks ago, about the dancing fiddler in question so I just had to go ask her.
Brenda Lad is a fine fiddler and not easily fooled. This I know too well.
She was extremely impressed by the girls elegance, beauty, agility and playing and firmly believes that the young woman was playing perfectly as she skipped across the stage.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 02:00 PM

"Looping" is done fairly frequently when making movies. This is sort of the opposite of lip-synching and it's not easy to do. Looping is done when it's discovered that after a scene is shot, a line, or several lines haven't recorded well. Maybe the whole scene. And rather than go to the expense of setting up the scene again and reshooting it, they have the actors come in to re-record the dialogue while watching the film. And trying to match the words (emotions and all) to their own lip movements on film is damned hard to do! But you see lot more of that than you realize.

One of the reasons for cobbling recordings by doing umpteen takes or sometimes splicing a couple of takes together is that, in live performance, a slight boo-boo (and no performer, no matter how good, can lay down an absolutely perfect performance every time—or even most of the time) may go by unnoticed, or if noticed, easily forgiven. But if you hear the boo-boo every single time you listen to the CD or watch the DVD, it becomes more and more noticeable. Like an ugly wart on an otherwise beautiful face. It's hard to keep your eyes off of it. Since the boo-boo can be eliminated with a little judicious editing or splicing, that's standard operating procedure, and everybody's happy. But if the editing is sloppily done, that becomes a boo-boo in itself.

The live performer gets only one shot. Before being too critical, try recording something perfectly. Then note how many takes are required to get it absolutely perfect.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Stewart
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 03:11 PM

Well, I guess I'm guilty of lip-syncing in my past. In the late '60s when I lived in Dallas (for a few years) I sang with the Dallas Civic Chorus. One of our regular gigs was to do the Nat'l Anthem at the beginning of the Cowboys' football games, then in the old Cotton Bowl. Because it's hard to sing in a large stadium with all its reverb, we recorded our singing, so when we stepped up on the risers and our conductor raised his baton, it was all lip-syncing. Once when the tape was cued too early we really had to jump in fast. After the game, someone would always compliment me on the singing, but I had to be honest and tell them our secret.

But I much prefer to listen to live recordings rather than studio-polished over-dubbed stuff. And the same goes with video.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Bernard
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 02:02 PM

I suppose it depends upon what you've gone to see... if it's a stage show with lots of choreography, miming has been common practice for decades - the long defunct British 'Black and White Minstrels Show' being a case in point. The 'singers' were miming whether it was a 'live' stage show or a TV production (a friend of mine used to be their Stage Manager). Sometimes the singers were live, but offstage, other times it was entirely mimed to a recording, depending upon the venue.

The idea is not that you are watching a concert, which would be more static, but you are watching a spectacular with musical backing.

Horses for courses...

I'm with Stewart on this - I'd rather watch a good honest performance, rather than dancers and actors faking it. There can be, as he suggested, a good reason for miming - exceptions always prove a rule.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Joel
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 09:10 PM

Enough of the apologetics for Celtic Woman performances. It's not post-production looping. It's not cutting together different takes.

Watch the throats and jaws of the singers -- no vibration. Count the notes and the strokes of the bow -- when the bow is actually on the strings.

It's just pretty pretty ladies pretending to sing and play fiddle.

The PBS pledge host commented on the assembly of the group for PBS.
The title is Celtic Woman - A New Journey: Live at Slane Castle. Where is PBS's honesty. I'm dishearted by the gullibility of thousands...millions?

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 09:47 PM

Jeeze!
      Now I'm going to have to watch the damn thing just to figure out whether or not it's fake. Thanks Joel. I thought I was done with this one.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,WG
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 06:03 PM

Would you guys please get a grip!! Vibrating throats, jaws, yada yada yada,....please !! give me break. There is no way a live DVD would be 'lip synched'. You could never get it perfect and Ive watched the DVD several times, looking closely, and their lips always matched with the words, ALWAYS ! With all those close ups, you could never hide it for 2 hours. You guys are brutal !! Concerts are one thing, live DVDs ( with 90% close-ups ), are totally different. P.S. The All-Ireland Fiddle Champion does NOT have to pretend to play! Find a new hobby people, because reviews are just not for you.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 06:12 PM

Oh thank you, guest WG for being the voice of reason!
You said
       "Ive watched the DVD several times, looking closely, and their lips always matched with the words"
But if I say I'll do that then I'm Brutal?

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,WG
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 06:21 PM

Sorry Jim, I wasn't talking about you, just those before you. You were the one who actually said they would watch and find out for yourself. ( Ive watched the DVD several times in the past couple of months, and was paying close attention because in the past I heard a mention of lip-synching and wanted to be sure.) Enjoy, and see for yourself, and by the way, good luck 'counting notes and bow-strokes during granuailes dance. C Ya.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,WG
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 06:25 PM

P.S. Didnt mean to group everyone together, just ticked. LOL

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,WG
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 06:42 PM

It's fun to rant sometimes, LOL. Great for stress ! But seriously, I doubt they could pull it off. PS. Your wife said Mairead was actually playing ?, so there you go :)

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 07:06 PM

I didn't disagree with her. I dare not! I think the others were just having fun too though.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,WG
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 07:23 PM

LOL, smart man! Im sure they were, its just that Ive heard it before about lip synching etc, and it ticks me off sometimes, because people say that about everyone (ever since that Milli Vanilli incident LOL). Mairead is one of the best fiddle players in the world, no kidding, and the girls have been together for over a year and a half, Im pretty sure they have it down by now. I might believe the lip-synching theory if I could see it, but no way. Anyhow, kudos to the engineers and singers if they could pull it off. Watch close !

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,WG
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 07:40 PM

To answer the post asking if they actually sing at their live concerts, someone on another forum who saw them live said one of the girls voices cracked on one of the really high notes, and she appeared to react to it. Or maybe they planned that so it would 'appear' to be live. Hmmmm....Interesting.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 08:32 PM

It's always a risky business, voicing negative opinions about favourite entertainers, on this forrum. I wouldn't be inclined to take it personally. I will say this however......

Oh, never mind.

I've got nothing!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,WG
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 09:12 PM

Please, speak your mind. LOL. I dont take much personally, but I have seen some people really freak out in some forums. I went into one forum the other night and read,didnt post anything and Im like...Oh kayyyy.. These guys were just ripping on eachother. I honestly dont care what anyone says about a performer IF IT'S A VALID POINT. LOL. Have a good night, C Ya.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,WG
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 10:07 PM

P.S. May the angelic voices of Celtic Woman be enjoyed by everybody, each and every day from this day forward !!!!!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 11:32 PM

Who was that masked woman?

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Big Phil
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 03:38 AM

To answer the Posters question, yes of course Lip-Synching or miming is a rip off.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 12:52 PM

Fake, Fake, Fake. So is Riverdance and Lord of the dance. Fake footsteps. Barage is fake too. Saw them from the front row. Cute as hell, but playing to a tape. Rip off. I'd rather hear a slightly-flawed real performance. Or even a seriously-flawed one for that matter, if SOMEONE in the production had heart.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Scrump
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 01:05 PM

Fake, Fake, Fake. So is Riverdance and Lord of the dance. Fake footsteps.

I expect it was all done by computer animation. Heaven only knows why they bothered, though.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 01:43 PM

I wonder why I have never heard a REAL critic say anything remotely close to them (Celtic Woman) being fake, or lip=synching, etc etc. The only place you see comments like that is in these forums. Dont you think if CW was faking it, it would have been discovered by now. Theyve been around for about 2 years, several concert tours, DVD's, etc. You'd think SOMEONE would have exposed them by now, that is, someone who knows, not some angry,pot-stirring, 'armchair quarterbacks'. Not everyone in the business is like Ashlee Simpson or Milli Vanilli and if they were, they would be quickly exposed. I guess the hundreds of reviews on CW and their music were written by critics with no clue.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 01:50 PM

I heard someone connected with Riverdance say (on NPR I think) that they were foot-synching. The rationale was that people who attend a concert expect them to be perfect everytime so they make sure that they are. I would feel cheated out of my money if I had gone to a show. I think it is a sad commentary that a lot of people find it acceptable. I have heard interviews with young folks who go see Madonna or Britney or some such and are OK with the fact that they are lip-synching. It is not what it is, it is what it appears to be that seems to matter. Very sad.

I don't know a bout Celtic Woman. Why was it called Celtic Woman? I didn't see but a small part but it looked to me like there was more than one woman.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Old Grizzly
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 02:20 PM

Much rather hear/see a performance 'straight' - warts and all !

even I make mistakes - and it doesn't bother me :o)

Dave

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 02:21 PM

Bottom line is...lip synching, miming, whatever is a rip off. People pay good money to see a live performance and although maybe the group's management wants a perfect show, I think most audience members would be okay with the odd mistake on stage. Apparently lipsynching is becoming very common, maybe because a lot of todays 'talent' cant even sing, its all about marketing. However, people who lipsynch are playing with fire, because if they are found out, it could ruin their career. I dont think anyone with talent (ie Celtic Woman - all 6 of them) needs to lipsynch. They are true professionals with amazing voices. Also, Mairead Nesbitt is an Ireland fiddle champion (some stiff competition) so I seriously doubt she needs to 'fake it'. Bottom line is, A New Journey is a beautiful production that is well worth checking out. These girls are all 'the real deal' and had successful solo careers long before CW came to be. P.S. Something tells me the Irish are way too proud and steeped in musical tradition to even consider such a practice.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 02:25 PM

Looks like someone's a CW fan!
G.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 02:30 PM

Come to the light my son.. :)

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 12:08 AM

Is it a rip off? IMHO, yes & I'd be pissed if I were to witness it.

Mistakes are exceptable, lip synching isn't.

Barry

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Kat
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 07:47 PM

Ok, as a fan and someone who will be seeing them live in CHicago in a few weeks - I am watching the DVD on an upsync HD DVD player on 42" plasma. I am watching closely. I found this link because I was curious after seeing the first PBS special. I am a musician and happen to be in a band with guitar, violin and me (percussion and lots of it). My violinist has watched as well, and although she did comment on her style - she wondered - "sync playing?" She said no, after watching.

One thing to look at - the BREATH - watch and LISTEN to the clarity of the breath as the chest breaths in and forget about the throat for a moment. You can't match the breath that perfectly if it was a a "sync" - sorry.

It is real!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 11:31 AM

I cannot say whether the DVD is synched or not. It is common to go in and fix mistakes after the recording of a live show for release on DVD. However, I saw Celtic Woman live last night in Nashville and most of the show was synched. I am recording engineer and 14 year music industry veteran and can tell you that every up tempo tune (vocals and fiddle) was performed to pre-recorded tracks. Not only could you tell visually, the tracks had a different sonic character than the live vocals. The tracks were brighter and much more sibilant. Also, the real fiddle had a much more warm tonality with more string scratch than the tracks. Now, they did appear to sing the more exposed down tempo stuff and Mairead actually played at least one tune. It was pretty obvious when the whistle player strolled across the stage for a solo that there was no microphone in sight (although he appeared to play the rest of the show quite well). Also, during an encore I noticed Chloe dancing in rhythm before the music had started which indicates she had a track in her in-ear monitors. I am unsure about the harp stuff, but I have my doubts.

My question is this: Why do such obviously talented performers (they obviously recorded the backing tracks at some point) feel the need to rely upon tracks?

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: guitar
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 11:35 AM

Rip off no question, I mean they are booked to sing live and not mime

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 11:52 AM

Hmm are you privy to the contract details then guitar?
Thats not what I came to say really. I was interested to see how long we were going to confuse the very skilled art of lipsynching with on stage miming. As an ex Broadcasting film dubbing mixer I know the difference. Luckily my high horse is not needed here because guest:guest at 1141 just above showed the detail that a pro enjoys and most observers only notice as an uneasy feeling of unreality.
Lipsynching or post dubbing has been around since the early talking movies. The picture was obviously more important at the time of shooting and is much more controllable. Sound is is a wonderfully complex sensation. The beauty of which is completely cobbled by overhead planes, distant motorways and car horns etc., especially in a period drama or a scene on a desert Island. It is the dubbing mixers art to restore the background required by the writers vision, and to re-record the actors voices in a controlled studio environment carefully adding the correct acoustic.

Oh I'll shut up now I'm waxing poetic, always a bad sign.
Any way Miming on stage is NOT lipsynching. I expect it's yet another accepted word change by common useage. Still, only a few years now to my free bus pass!!

Andy

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 12:53 PM

Some pretty 'convincing' arguements from industry 'pros'. Can't ignore that, however, the eyes don't lie and watching A New Journey closely (haven't seen the Helix show yet so can't comment) will reveal there is no 'miming' on the DVD. As GUEST Kat pointed out, watch the breath (you can actually see it at some points), listen to the breath, and watch the throats, if you will, especailly Lisa Kelly during 'the voice'. It is possible some post dubbing was done to clean up the soundtrack, but when you see the girls singing on stage, that is what you are hearing. I guess this arguement will go on until the end of time, and probably more artists 'mime' than we would like to think, its just that I dont think ANJ falls into this category, and since I have not seen CW in concert, I cannot comment on that (but I know they dont need to). Thank you for listening.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Guest from Atlanta
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 07:59 PM

I just saw Celtic Woman in concert in Atlanta at The Fox THeater, and I truly believe the whole production was a lip sync fest from the voices to the violin, to even the insurments. It went off MEGA Flawlessly but the voices never strained or showed vibrato at the appropriate points. I have actually WRITTEN to Celtic Woman about this and JUST recieved a response and they have written me this. They Deny it whole heartedly. If I am in the wrong I am megaly blown away. Here is what the wrote:

I'm sorry you feel this way, but all of our performers perform live every night. Celtic Woman was conceived as a vehicle to showcase the vocal and musical talents of some of the best performers in Ireland as live each and every night. A lot of work goes into each show, both on stage and off stage to ensure that the show looks and sounds right, vocally, musically and technically. All of the people you see on stage are proficient at their craft, and use their abilities each night to bring the show to life. Mairead, like the other musicians plays her fiddle, and the solo singers, like the choir, sing live.


I hope this has been of help,


Celtic Woman.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 08:32 PM

Ahah! So there you have it! I knew it! See?

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Sam
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 12:37 PM

Jim, I still think Celtic woman is faking. They may be REALLY singing, but the notes the audience hears are the voices of a pre-recorded studio. I am very disapointed. I see live stuff all the time in shows and there is NO way in hell they are really singing. The violinist violin started playing before her BOW even Hit the strings. Can you explain that? Is there some magical violen that has the ability to do that? I payed $75 for a ticket (plus the one for my date) Celtic Woman is a Fraud. They are beautiful, and I am sure they are good singers. But I didn't expect Millie Vanalie! I wish more people who go to there shows will pay more closely attention so I will have more fans vouch for me. Its a SHAM!! A SHAM I TELLS YA!! A SHAM!!! Down with Fake and UP with Talent!!!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 12:43 PM

You are right on that one!!! You make an EXCELLENT POINT!! I think they are CLUELESS!!!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 01:33 PM

So. You're going to tell my wife then?
I'll hold your jacket.
Like I said before. It's not my bag so I didn't watch enough to know. Next time it's on, I'll have a look.
Good morning all, from the frosty Highlands.
Jim

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 06:57 PM

Boy, Guest Sam, $75 for seats that close to see when the bow is actually on the strings, great deal. You must have been right on stage with Mairead, Wow! Seriously, could it just be the angle you were sitting at, or maybe your'e just not quite observant enough, or maybe she just has talent (you pick). Perhaps some concert-goers are just not used to talented acts like CW, so if it sounds great, it MUST be fake, right?? FYI - Millie Vanillie wasn't singing, and the pre-recorded voice you heard wasn't even theirs, it was someone else! People need to realize THIS - CW is for real, and they ROCK!!!!!!! A ticket to their show is a BARGAIN AT ANY PRICE !! Bye for now.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 07:05 PM

$75!!! What? Out of my league.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 07:48 PM

Boy, Guest Sam, $75 for seats that close to see when the bow is actually on the strings, great deal. You must have been right on stage with Mairead, Wow! Seriously, could it just be the angle you were sitting at, or maybe your'e just not quite observant enough, or maybe she just has talent (you pick). Perhaps some concert-goers are just not used to talented acts like CW, so if it sounds great, it MUST be fake, right?? FYI - Millie Vanillie wasn't singing, and the pre-recorded voice you heard wasn't even theirs, it was someone else! People need to realize THIS - CW is for real, and they ROCK!!!!!!! A ticket to their show is a BARGAIN AT ANY PRICE !! Bye for now.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 08:07 PM

Celtic Woman is the best band in the World!! Soon enough, they will be more recognizable and popular than Tiger Woods !

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 08:08 PM

...or the Rolling Stones.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,I am not a fool
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 12:25 PM

The only thing that I know was real in the show was the percussion. Celtic Woman is an act and a production. It is NOT a live concert experence. You guys humor me with your sarcasim. I know I am right on this one. I didn't mean to offend you guys. Yes, I was close enough to see the Bow and Fiddle and close enough to see that there was fiddle music going on before it hit the string. You know live singing and lip syncing/playing when you see it. Even the guitar was full of crap (as well as the other insturments) It was so obvious I couldnt believe it. You can feel the energy of a live voice even from waaaaay back. And the lifeless un soulfelt of a a lip sync. Celtic Woman have beautiful voices on THERE CD and I enjoy them alot. I think Miriad (or what ever her name is) is one of the most beautiful woman I have ever seen in my life. But it is a sham, I only ask if you go to see them (again) Pay CLOSE CLOSE CLOSE attention to the details. I am sure you will see something out of whack. I don't mean to be so obsessive about this. I do have hobbies believe it or not and REALLY have a great social life!!! Celtic Woman, I am looking you in the face and telling you that you are a fraud. I would eat a NICE juicy piece of humble pie if proven wrong. I am just a typical joe so why prove it when your making millions on your shows and CD's? When it proves to be that I am right and hits the papers, you guys in here will be like "That Sam dude was RIGHT, I feel like such a dumbass I cannot believe it!" haha. And go ahead...make fun of my spelling. I know I cant spell, but I sho nuff know lip sync from true live performance, and Celtic Woman YOU AIN'T IT!!!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Sam
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 12:30 PM

Oh yeah, just to let you know, that was ME Sam that just posted the comment above.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 04:56 PM

Who's being sarcastic?? Celtic Woman is the best live CONCERT ever. All the instruments, vocals, choir, etc are REAL. Get over it. Accept the fact that you are wrong and move on. (Really, it's not that difficult.) By the way, seems youv'e seen quite a bit of lip-synch to be such an 'expert', maybe your'e not used to real talent like Celtic Woman. Maybe you need to stop going to Brittany Spears concerts and see another CW concert to see for yourself you are wrong. Perhaps you are jealous of CW and all of their talent and are just trying to bring them down. Don't waste your time, they are the REAL DEAL, and will continue to take over the music world, concert by concert, cd by cd, dvd by dvd. Just sit back and enjoy !! P.S. Sam, there is nothing rong with your spelling, looks fyne to me. Later.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: John Hardly
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 05:11 PM

digital video and digital audio. There's no reason a perfect DVD couldn't be produced with separate sources for video and audio. Watching a DVD would prove notihing.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: John Hardly
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 05:13 PM

...and "Celtic Woman" was so syrupy and overproduced that I needed to bite a lemon just to return to some sort of balance.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 05:15 PM

I just can't see me paying $75 for any concert. They stay dressed right?

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 05:21 PM

I could see myself paying Ten Thousand Dollars to see a Celtic Woman concert. And yes, they stay dressed as far as I know. Otherwise, maybe Twenty or Thirty Thousand !!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 06:09 PM

Oh, you're a fan alright.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 06:12 PM

The whole world will be a fan soon ! Not too far to go.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 06:23 PM

Yeah! I remember they said that about abba.
I'm with "Rip Off".
Lipsynching, which is what we're on about, is a rip off.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 07:09 PM

I agree, lipsynch is not being fair and honest to the audience, especially when the group knows that they expect a 'live' show. If they want lipsynch, they can buy the CD. It is a rip off, however, it seems everyone does it (except Celtic Woman). Night to all.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 07:10 PM

Well put, AWG.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Sam
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 08:37 AM

Here we go again. Celtic Woman is the ONLY show that I have seen lip Sync. I have never been to a Britany Spears Concert! But at least people know she lip syncs because of there coriography. You can be in denial all you want about Celtic Woman, but they do lip sync at there shows. Next time you go see them WATCH There mouths, there spirit, there movement,. And concerning there clothing, they do a LOT of Costume changes! And you know what else? Underneigh there clothes they are all NAKID!!! This is my last response on the subject of lip syncing. They Lip Sync at there shows thats the bottom line. But not just that, the insterments arn't really playing as well, its all a just pre-recorded mime act. And I paid good money for that! Its a cool visiual experence but your ears are molested of live sound. Nuff said.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:37 PM

Admit it Sam, CW is for real. You just mis-understood what you saw. P.S. Nakid under the clothes, Hmmm....I see what you mean by a cool visual experience. I can't wait to check out one of their shows. And only $75, seems like a bargain to me!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 11:09 AM

CW is for real I am sure in the recording studio. Not live! Even if all the Celtic Woman are HOT its not worth $75 to watch them try to fool us. If you think they are real they have you fooled. I am just trying to enlighten you. I am a musician myself and a music minor from college. This does NOT make me an expert in the area of lip syncing, but I do have a passion for music. Just watch them in concert NEXT time you go. You are obviously in denial about the even POSIBILITY of them lying to you. Lip Syncing is Lying to your audience...bottom line. CW lied to me and for that I had my feelings hurt. If you had a daughter and she lied to you IN YOUR FACE wouldn't you be upset? Especially if you loved that daughter sooo much? Its hurtful. "Mommy look at the macaronie picture I made for you" when really she stole it from "little billy baxter". NOT COOL!! I am less of a fan now. CW liar liar pants on fire. (I thought I wasn't going to write anymore on this)

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Cathiasus
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 08:54 PM

So, I must admit, Celtic Women are FINE!!! Unfortunately, these chics have no class, due to the fact, that they are definately lip-synching. I mean, no one, NO ONE sings that perfectly, and even if they did, they would hopefully sing more than Celtic Classics(no offense to any Celts). I mean, lets hear Purple Haze sung perfectly. U know, for the sake of Art!!!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Sam
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 10:37 AM

Cathiasus, I couldn't agree more! You rock!! The thing is, is also, the Celtic Women website wrote me back saying that they DIDNT. So thats a lie and I think there should be some sort of investigation so they can be held accountable. Even a missed note or the unperfection of a live sound is what makes it a real experence. Maybe we can start an orginization to get the media involved. I dunno, I may be over reacting. I just feel like I am Neo who discovered the Matrix is false and nobody gives a crap.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 10:51 AM

To quote Guest Sam...."Even a missed note or the unperfection of a live sound is what makes it a real experence.".....Maybe they are just really good, they have been together for 2 years and have practiced these songs how many thousands of times ???   And Guest Cathiasis, to say the woman of Celtic Woman have no class based on your unfounded and ridiculous (IMO) suspicions is simply ludicrous. They carry themselves with more class and integrity than most performers in music today. Have a good day.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Cathiasus
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 01:18 AM

AWG, so yeah, whatever. If you like a world full of fake plastic trees, be my guest. It is a shame that people these days don't stop to investigate what is real and what is false. This is the reason why so many are dooped into believing that crap and making those Celtic Women fakes rich.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 10:57 AM

It's about a thing called 'proof'. Nobody seems to have any.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,hamelrider
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 12:18 AM

just got back from a CW concert in MPLS. yes, they do lip sync and it's very distracting! you first notice it with the fiddler - not moving her bow or making the right motions to correspond with the music. the drums, piano and guitar are real. you can really notice when they're doing a big number and there are orchastra pieces playing that aren't represented on stage - typically multiple violins . . . all the peices they typically have in their telivised concerts but are missing in these nightly performances . . .they only have a few of the instruments they actually need for some of the background music and in the TV concerts you can see all the instruments they need.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 11:19 AM

It's called "KARAOKE"! I've never understood it. Even pub entertainers who carry enough sound gear to fill the room are lost without their back-up music.

Subject: RE: Loose Lip-sinking: Art or Ship-destroyer?
From: Severn
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 06:07 PM

Good live music makes jaws drop, rather than making lips synch.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 09:48 PM

I TOLD YOU GUYS!!! CELTIC WOMAN IN CONCERT IS A LIE!!! HAMELRIDER, I THINK ALL THE INSTERMENTS NOT REALLY PLAYING, EXCEPT THE PURCUSSION. They need to be held accountable! Its a fake phony rip off!! Somebody please report this to 20/20 or Newsweek or something!! They are taking your money!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,It was Confirmed that Celtic Women Lip Sync
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 02:12 PM

I am a production manager for live performances. My wife and I attended CW last year in concert. They ae lip syncing to pre recorded digital tracks. They as well were off several times with the voice tracks. The violin player was off many times from the music.

I do not have a problem that they are performing to pre recorded tracks, as it is quite common in the music industry. They have a visually stunning show.

THEY DO HOWEVER HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO COME CLEAN WITH THEIR AUDIENCE. TO OUTRIGHT LIE ABOUT IT IS MORALLY CORUPT.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 01 May 07 - 01:53 PM

Celtic Woman doesn't lie about anything. And who the heck would ever admit to lip-synching ? Silly rabbit.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,PR in North Carolina
Date: 02 May 07 - 02:28 PM

My high-school-age daughter and her friend really like Celtic Woman (from the PBS broadcast and the _New Journey_ CD). Not my usual fare--too big a production and a little too much geared toward a mass audience for my tastes (if you want to hear "Mo ghile Mear" done right, go see The Chieftains if they come to a theater near you). Still, my wife and I liked the music well enough to join the girls for the CW performance in Raleigh in late March. I had a bad feeling when we entered the auditorium in Memorial Hall to discover that there was no orchestra in the pit or on stage, as in the PBS special and on the studio recording. Once the show started, the backing strings and synthesizers were so obviously prerecorded that it's hard to imagine that anyone could have missed it. That didn't seem to bother anyone--fair enough--but it left me to ponder how much of the rest of this show was actually performed live and how much was being synched on stage from a prerecorded digital mix. Of the backing instrumentals, my impression, too, was that the percussion and piano/keyboard parts were performed live, as were at least some (but perhaps not all) of the guitar segments. Not sure about the bass or the Uillean pipes. I have my doubts about the tin whistle (at least when the player was center-stage) and especially the harp, neither of which were amplified, as far as I could tell. My daughter plays both the lever harp (though a smaller model than Orla's instrument) and a semi-grand concert pedal harp. It takes some effort to get even the semi-grand to project its sound (unamplified) fully and clearly across a large auditorium, over other instruments. Unless there was a cordless microphone inside the soundbox, Orla's harp performance seemed a little too effortless and clean (especially given that she was also singing at the same time). My daughter said that Orla's harp pieces didn't strike her as intrinsically difficult, and perhaps Orla is so accomplished a musician that she could bring it off live. But again, I have my doubts. There is much comment in this thread about the vocals and the fiddle playing to which I can add nothing new except to say that I did notice a transmitter in the folds of Mairead's dress at her waist. But whether it carried her fiddle playing or was strictly for an ear monitor, I cannot say.

In sum, I'll stipulate that CW's studio recordings are genuine, and I agree that their show was very well produced and executed, and that it is visually quite appealing. But I, too, came away convinced that much of this live performance was in fact prerecorded, which does indeed raise the question of why informed music critics haven't jumped all over this.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: MMario
Date: 02 May 07 - 02:37 PM

Regardless of whether or not CW lip-synch; to do lip synching *WELL*
does require considerable talent; AND if captured to video a talented editor.

Now if the performance is billed "Live" then, I'd expect it to be live. But Then, do you eliminate *all* backing tracks? If on a CD someone doubles a voice, do you drop it for live performance or use a pre-recorded track to give the same effect? Or hire additional talent?

Same for instrumentalists; what do you do when the same performer plays several instruments on a cut? Or multiple tracks on the same cut?

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Cat
Date: 08 May 07 - 02:15 AM

I just got back from the Celtic Woman concert in San Diego. Before I tell you my opinion, I will tell you that I have played the violin for 32 years and also sang all my life.
The violinist is amazing-how she can run around and play at the same time. The reason she can, is because we cannot hear her, even though she is playing live. It is pre-recorded. No doubt. The creators of Celtic Woman are giving us wordplay. She is playing live. I'm sure that if we could hear her, she would be amazing. I was in the seventh row and I saw her run out of bow, but the sound kept coming.
I believe that the singers were recorded as well, but it was harder to be sure. I believe the songs were kept simple, without a lot of embellishment, in order to make it easier to hide.
I walked out after 30 minutes.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 09 May 07 - 05:53 PM

I take it the tickets were free ?

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,B Murphy
Date: 19 May 07 - 07:01 PM

Saw them last wednesday and the complete proof for me was in the first song of the 2nd chunk when it starts out with the 2 percussionists drumming on the bodhran's. They get to a part of the song where there's wind chimes playing (which is normally the 2nd percussionists part, but he's on stage with a bodhran in hand).

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ALCAN1
Date: 19 May 07 - 10:38 PM

I just stumbled on this thread. Interesting topic and discussion. Im not 100% certain either way weather the WHOLE SHOW is or is not Lip-synced. However I will say this. Because this subject keeps comming up Im interested in knowing the truth either way. I will explain what I have observerd.

I have seen the show 13 times in total and will see it 1 more time this year. Ive seen the postings from day 1 about the possibility of Lip-synching. I have seen the show 6 times from the first row. I can say that I can hear their unamplified voices on stage. However there are times that it is really hard to tell. If there is Lip-synching going on then its bing done only on certain tracks. If that is the case it would be easy to fool you. One track would be live then another may be recorded. That is a possibility. One other reason I say that it is live is the fact being so close I have watched the choir very closly during a couple shows. They are the key. When watching and listening to them you can tell its live as you can hear them unamplified and at times on the stage they are very powerful and there is no mistaking the vocals from their mouths.

There are things that I have observed that also lend credibility to the Lip-synching theory. One thing I have noticed is there are times when during the vocals (both with the choir and the soloists) I have noticed that the lights on their microphone packs warn on their backs are not light then at times in the same number they are lit up yet I have still been able to hear their unamplified voices. Could it be that it is live on stage yet a prerecorded track being played over the sound system during the same number. I think thats possible but can be 100% sure.

1 thing I do know for a fact is that there is a small delay between whats going on on stage and what is heard over the sound system. This fact was stated to me by Kelvin Thompson the alternate musical director in Seattle.

During all the shows I saw with Hayley that I saw I have no doubt that she was live in all the numbers that she did. She made so many mistakes in Boston, Moheagen Sun, CT. and Both shows in New York that there wasnt any doubt that it was live and not Lip-synched. I understand that she has gotten alot better since those shows.

I love CW very much, met them many times, and maintain in contact with the members via internet. Ive traveled over 50,000 miles in total to see the shows and I for one enjoy it weather or not it is Lip-synched at times. I concede that there may be Lip-synching going on from time to time but it is so hard to tell because I can hear their unamplified voices comming from the stage. That coupled with the fact that there is an intentional delay of the sound system confirmed to me by Kelvin I think its very likely that its a combo of both live and prefabed.

As far as Mairead not playing I know for a fact that she is playing as she knows me and when Ive been in those front row seats she will spend alot of time and make the effort to play within 3 feet of me during the show. All the performers love us and know us. There are a few of us that have supported CW from day one. Their management on the other hand is a different story. Im shocked they they even answered any emails concerning Lip-synching or any other subject. I know it isnt Dave "Murry Wilson" Kavanagh answering emails. I can go on and on about the deception from the management of CW, PBS, Madstone, and the PBS stations but those problems are not the performers fault. If their is Lip-synching its not by the performers choice. The only excepting to that is if one of them were sick and was having a hard time singing then I could see them wanting to Lip-sync. The members of CW love what they do and love thier fans. I dont believe for 1 second that they would want to decieve their fans or want to make their fans feel let down in any way. I will say this....One of the members went out of their way to express their understanding to my being upset with those in their management. These performers are the real deal IMO and I beleive that most if not all the show is live. However I will concede its possible there are parts that may not be live. If that is the case I cant tell. But ill be looking for anything out of place when I travel to Washington DC in June for the last show of the year.

ALCAN1

Tony P.
VALDEZ ALASKA

Toronto 2006 Asst Group Event Host
New York City Group Fan Forum Host-
March 2007

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Mr.Tuba
Date: 06 Jun 07 - 08:00 PM

WOW !! So many panties in a wad. O.K. I have seen CW live 4 times. One time I was 6 rows back, center. One time I was 4 rows back, just off center. One time I was 3 rows back, dead center. I have heard them breathe. I have heard their raw voices off the stage. I have been a Tuba player for 42 years, and, not to brag, I am very good. I should be after all these years, or I should hang it up. Anyway, when a musician/singer breathes properly, they breathe so as to fill the bottom of the lungs first, then fill to the top of the lungs. This gives full wind capacity, support, and eliminates a nasel sound. If you breathe thru your nose, or just fill your throat, you will not have the above mentioned qualities. As for the violin bow not touching the strings, remember, a violin neck and strings are not flat, like a guitar. You have to work the bow at an angle, depending on which string you want to sound. This can give the optical illusion that the bow is not touching the strings. I have seen Mairead, up close, and she is not only playing, but she is burning up those strings faster then they can cool off. In Orlando, this week, I heard Maev's voice clearly off the stage. The lag in lip movement, to the sound coming out of the speakers is due to system travel time. I cannot understand why this is so hard to realize. There is no way you can sing into a mic, have the sound travel thru the sound system, and come out of a speaker at the exact same time that your lips are moving. DUH !! If they were to lip sync at times, I can live with that because you have to remember, these ladies are singing night after night, 20 songs, month in and month out. They go thru all kinds of weather changes here as they travel. I want to see any of you perfectionists keep up their schedule. I have sang in choirs, quartets, and as a soloists over the years. In a choir setting, my voice is good for only about 4 songs, then I am worn out. That is because in a choir, you have to project. In a quartet, or as a soloists, I can sing 8 to 10 songs, because all I have to do is sing into a mic. The sound system does the work. As for those of you who feel cheated, you have too much time on your hands. Get a hobby, and stop going to CW concerts. That will free up more good seats for the rest of us. I especially take exception to those of you who have made this a mud slinging contest against the ladies as individuals. If you do not like CW management, fine. But to attack the ladies personally, shows just what kind of bottom feeders you really are. I have personally been blessed to be able to talk to Maev, Lisa, Orla ( she signed one of our CDs ) David Downes, and Des Moore. These folks are very sweet people, and love to just stop and talk to their fans. They usually do not have a lot of free time, but I have been fortunate enough to stay in the same hotel as they did twice. We stayed accross the hall from Lisa and her family in Cary, N.C. We stayed in the Omni in Jax, and ran into Orla in the hotel driveway, and then again in the lobby. In fact, when we saw her in the driveway, she was going to the center for her sound check. When she came back, she saw us in the lobby, and she came over to us to talk some more. She did not have to do that, but she did because she is a sweet person, and she loves to see her fans. The others are much the same. Lisa came up to us also in the lobby. In N.C., Maev and her husband were talking to a man in the lobby, and I walked up to her and asked her if she was Maev. She said yes, and stood there and talked to me for about 5 minutes. She could have easily said she was busy, and excused herself, but instead, she spent time with me and my wife. CW is real, and these ladies are lovely inside and out. I could go on and on, but this subject really boils down to one thing. If you do not like CW, you will look for something, anything, to complain about. This is not about lip syncing, it is about people who want to find something to find fault with. Like I said before, if any of you what to try to keep up with them, and their schedule, good luck. I am sure you will find something else to fault them over. As for me, I cannot wait to see them again, as time and money permits. The pleasure and fun my wife and I have had going to their concerts, and meeting them, far outweighs anything else.
Mr. Tuba
P.S. I still am ready to play Tuba for them is they ever decide to add one. I want to see someone accuse me of lip syncing on the Tuba.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 06 Jun 07 - 08:04 PM

See! I knew it! Straight from the horse's lips.
Thank You Mr. Tuba!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 05:49 PM

I've been defending Celtic Woman throughout this entire thread, while waiting patiently for someone like Mr. Tuba to come along and back me up. I trust we can all agree now that CW is definately for real, and they do NOT lip synch. Told ya!! Na Na Na Na Na...... P.S. Hey Jim, wasn't it worth the wait ??

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Mr.Tuba
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 08:41 PM

Jim Lad & AWG, thanks for the roses. As for GUEST Cathiasus, your remark about Celtic Classics is immature. Ever wonder why they make vanilla and chocolate ice cream ?? If CW sings their style of music, and Willie Nelson sings his, and The Stones sing theirs, then all styles of music get covered, and each of us can support the style that best suits our taste. I was not a fan of this kind of music in the past. Actually, I had never really heard it. But, from the first CW concert, I was hooked. In truth, my background is mostly in Southern Gospel, and Country music. My love for the CW type of music is purely because they have a sound and style that appeals to me. Each of us needs to find something that moves us, and follow that. Whatever moves you is right for you, and that is what is important to you as an individual. No real right or wrong, just personal taste.
Mr.Tuba

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 09:08 PM

Well worth the wait, Oggy!
I honestly thought I was going to have to watch the whole show just to find out for myself.
Mr. Tuba has spared me though.
Thank you very much, Mr. Tuba. (if that's your real name)

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ART thieme
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 09:34 PM

As I was often fond of saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't rip his lips off!!"

ART

(I wondered when and if there would be a thread where my saying was appropriate for posting therein?! This be IT ;-)

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Barry T
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 11:30 PM

Art> As I was often fond of saying...

LOL! Here's another one for your collection, Art. This one comes to us courtesy of a gaff by one of our former Prime Ministers here in Canada...

"You can lead a horse to drink, but you can't make him water!"

This doesn't fit the thread at all, but you gotta admit that the imagery is striking!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 03:13 AM

Like shooting ducks in a barrel!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 10:13 AM

Mr Tuba, you are awesome, I couldn't have done it without you! And Jim, don't simply watch the show, attend a live concert. Betcha you get hooked, just like Mr. Tuba and millions of others like him.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 10:44 AM

What cracks me up is all the 'guests' posing as industry pro's (engineers, sound mixers, etc. etc.) as if they will have any credibility as they badmouth CW. Notice how they all seem to have a lifetime of experience (so they MUST know what they are talking about, right?). I wonder if any one of them has actually even seen a CW concert or the DVD, for that matter. By the way, Jim Lad, you are obviously a closet CW fan. Don't you think it's about time you came out of the closet ?

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 11:40 AM

Funny that! Mr. Tuba dropping into Mudcat, just to help restore this dying thread and then Poof! ... he's gone.
Who was that masked man?

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 04:13 PM

Could it be.....????? Naaaahhhhhhhhhh. Nobody is THAT bored !!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,dave
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 01:21 PM

There are two types of lip synching. One where the pre-recorded voices are played at a concert and the singers just move their lips. This has been proven to not be the case with CW. They perform live at their concerts, as attendees have attested to.

The DVD shown on PBS is a different matter. The video footage show from Slane Castle was, for the most part from that live concert. Some addidtional closeups might have been done pre or post production because of camera placement issues, but the main filming was live during the concert. Now, the audio used for the DVD was probably not the audio captured during that show. A clean, well mixed studio recording was used for the soundtrack on the DVD, and the actual video footage was laid over to match. The wireless headset mics and instrument pickups used in concert cannot create a mix like the one one the DVD.

This is not cheating. This does not make CW hacks. When you are creating a high profile, high production DVD like this, you can't just "record the take" that you get during a live show and call it a day. If the fiddler had broken a string, or a performer had cracked a note, you wouldn't expect the producers to just say "That's the way it goes, Print it!" The DVD is a polished version of these wonderful ladies performances, and while I would expect and enjoy seeing a live show of their's with all the artifacts that come with a live performance, I'm also very pleased with a beautiful, visually stunning representation of what these woman can really do.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 01:35 PM

Nicely put, Guest Dave. However I do believe that what you hear on the DVD is what, for the most part, the audience hears. The audio is then 'enhanced' using the best technology available to give a cleaner, near perfect, end result on the DVD. I doubt they could lay an entire new audio track over the video (or vice versa) and have it match that good, right down to the tiniest picks of a guitar or violin, or the singer's voices and breaths themselves. But I admit some for sure is added in the studio after the concert. Common practice, no doubt. What do you think Jim ? Something tells me you are nearby.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ALCAN1
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 03:50 PM

The DVD audio was recorded during 2 live concert events. Boy am I now really kicking myself for not flying to Ireland last summer for the 2 day filming then I could give you a first hand account. I was invited to the filming but because of work I simply wasnt able to attend. But I do know several people who were there and have talked to them about the DVD and they have assured me that what you hear on the DVD is exactly what they heard at the filming in Ireland.

Now onto the concert tour. I should have elaberated more on my conversation with Kelvin Thompson in Seattle May,4, 2006 and why we were talking about the delay between what happens onstage and what goes out over the audio system. The night before the Seattle show the 6 of us were in Spokane Washington. During the first half of the show 4 of us were in row 7 and 2 of us in row 10. Both were in the dead center. There were 2 times during that first half of the show where there was static or "white noise" comming from the sound system. It only lasted a second or 2 each time. I figured that it could be one of 3 things. Either "white noise" comming from a wireless mic, static from a loose connection, or some type of flaw in the recorded track. So the next night before the show in Seattle, Michael and myself were able to spend an hour talking to Kelvin about the show and I mentioned what I had heard the previous night in Spokane and described it in detail. Thats when he told me about the delay and he also said that because of the placement of the main speakers and the monitor they all wear in one ear he wasnt able able to hear it himself from the stage. I was sitting in the first row balcony in Seattle that night and during that first half of the show the same static occured again in the same spot that I had heard it the previous night so I tend to think its something with the recorded track itself.

Now for those that know more about how thses tracks are laid out, are the vocals laid on a seperate channel? In other words If they were to be using prerecorded vocals and also singing live onstage could they...during the show dump from the prerecorded track and go to to live mic feed or vice versa? If so, could or would there be "white noise" or static during that process?

Prior to the Seattle show I said there was no way there was any lip synching going on. It was only after Seattle that I kept an open mind to the possibility that there was. The static and change of volume comming from the sound system was one factor. But the one thing that really sparked my interest was during the second half of the show in Seattle there were 3 in our group that moved down to the second row for the rest of the show. After the show all 3 of them reported to me that there was at least 1 time they were using a recorded track. So given the source of that first hand account I decided to keep an open mind to the possiblity. I have more that I could post on this subject but Im not going to do so at this time. But I will say this, what difference does it make if its all not totally 100% live? I love SEEING the show. There is alot more to it then the audio. I find the lighting, dancing, and the other visual effects very enjoyable. The lighting to me is really cool. There are times during "Sing Out" where the lights sweep the whole inside of the theater and that is a really cool sight to see. So it doesnt matter to me weather or not the whole audio is live comming over the sound system.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Mt.Tuba
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 03:53 PM

To: Jim Lad.
Mr. Tuba is the name I am known by. My name is Steve. I have been called many things, by many people. Steve & Mr.Tuba are two of the better ones.

Steve
Mr.Tuba

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Mr.Tuba
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 04:05 PM

Jim Lad, I'm Baaack. I am for real. I just have limited time, at times. I just found out about this forum the other day. As for Alcan1. You should have gone to Ireland. If I had your money, I would have gone. Would you like to adopt a 52 year old man with a wife and son ?? All joking aside, I envy you for all the concerts you have been able to attend. Kinda like a slice of Heaven on Earth. AWG, you sound like the kind of person I could talk to for hours. But, until Alcan1 adopts me and gives me some of his unlimited fortune, I will have to work for a living.

Steve
Mr.Tuba

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ALCAN1
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 04:17 PM

Well Mr Tuba. I really wanted to go to Ireland but I work for a company that houses and feeds the workers on the Trans Alaska Oil Pipeline. I work 84 hours a week and usually work 3 months on and then take a week to 4 weeks off before returning to work. I live at work so I have no expenses.

Yes I have been to many CW shows and infact it was my first show in Cincy where I met Danielle (Lisa and Orlagh's former webmaster). Her and I are really good friends. I think you may have see some of our pictures from our group events that Ive financed. Im thinking of doing the same thing again next year. If so then I will see what can be arranged to get you to attend. I recall some of your posts on another forum but dont remember which one.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Mr.Tuba
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 04:27 PM

ALCAN1:

Do you need an assistant ?? Maybe a personal driver ?? Just kidding. I have too many ties Central Florida. Last year, I believe you and my wife e-mailed each other about the CW management mess. Her name is Vickie. Anyway, good to hear from you.

Steve
Mr.Tuba

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ALCAN1
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 04:40 PM

Oh yes!!! Ok I remember. Yep CW management is a mess. As you can see I was right all along on that. The filming for the Christmas show next month proves that. I didnt even think about attending that filming. No way would work allow that. Im lucky Ill be able to fly to Washington DC in 12 days for the show there. I cant wait. Orlagh knows were comming. Shes such a peech. :D

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 06:47 PM

I'm listening to Celtic Woman right now.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ALCAN1
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 06:57 PM

AWG.........

As I always end every post on the CW forums

"LONG LIVE CELTIC WOMAN....MAY WE ALL HEAR THEM SINGING IN OUR SLEEP. ESPECIALLY MEAV. MAY WE ALL HAVE ENDLESS MEAVDAYS IN OUR DREAMS AND ENJOY EVERY SECOND OF THEM!!! AMEN"

You can guess who my favorite is. LOL MEAV!!!!!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 06:59 PM

Just an aside for Mr. Tuba,

My old uncle played tuba out in his corn field 'cause aunt Adele wouldn't let him do it in the house. (It was music to his ears.) A tornado came along and screwed him 20 feet into the ground.

So, a word to the wise, BE CAREFUL!

Art

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 07:20 PM

Hey Alcan1, how long have you been a CW fan ? Does the name Danielle mean anything to you ? What pissed you off the most on the LisaKelly.org forum ?? Something about mugs ? Just testing your identity, some posers on this sight you know. If you are who you say, Ive known you for quite a while from the CW sites. C Ya.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 07:43 PM

Been a fan since April 2005 when I first saw CW on a commerical on CNBC during the Suze Orman show. Danielle was Lisa and Orlaghs webmaster untill March of this year. When I first decided to travel the 8000 miles to see CW in Cincy in October of 2005 in the weeks prior to the show Danielle joined the first official forum and launched lisakelly.org. When it was suggested to to danielle that she attend the show in Cincy she stated she couldnt afford the gas money. As a result I wired her $150 and bought her sister Michelle a ticket to the she. I had never meet either of them before so I like her and Michelle was taking a chance. We met Lisa and Chloe after the show while waiting by the busses and Lisa knew who we all were by name even though none of us had met before. During our tour in the Pacific Northwest we were in Portland OR and there we met Josh (another fan from the forum). Danielle and Josh fell in love and were married in October of 2006. Celtic Woman brought them together. Danielle in late Aug of 2006 stated that she was letting lisakelly.org go and thats when Lisa hired her do her official site. Site was relaunched in November of 2006 and the new forum was a part of it. Since then the site was hacked and all files deleted but the forum remains. Danielle is still the webmaster but has given up on the sites for reasons I cant state publically.

Oh the one thing that pissed me off and the mugs you are refering to was the products that one member was selling with Lisas picture on it that he had printed up. That violated copywrite laws up the wazooo and Danielle amoung others were very unhappy about it.

for my complete story about my first CW show along with many of our pictures ive got it on my blog and alcan1.blogspot.com

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ALCAN1
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 07:47 PM

the guest post was from me. I forgot to put the username in the box....Sorry

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Mr.Tuba
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 10:47 PM

Art:
Wow. I don't know what kind of Tuba your uncle played, but I have two Besson BBb Tubas. One is an upright that weights in at 38lbs., and the other is a Rocording model that weights in at 40lbs. It would take a lot of tornado to pick these babies up. In my next life, I am going to play the piccolo.

Mr.Tuba

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 10:10 AM

Hey Tony, welcome to Mudcat. Thought I recognized you from the LK forum, you're quite a fan. Take care, and say hi to 'the girls' for me when you see them next. C Ya.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Manx
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 02:48 PM

I found this thread specifically because I suspected some fishyness after watching this dvd. I cannot comment on the touring production, as I haven't seen it. I have no doubt that the performers are extremely talented. Perhaps too much polish is not a good thing, as it makes people doubt a genuine performance. I just feel that I bought a full length music video of a CD that I have, with some clapping over it. I intended to get new, unique recordings of these tracks.

As an eperiment, I chose the track Newgrange, which is on both video and cd, and played them overlapping each other. I found the audio was indestinguishable. Identical. No variance AT ALL. If the DVD is several performances, one without audience etc, then that is the ONLY way this is a legitimate concert film. All other options point to it being a multi-song music video.

Again, I am not saying this was an entirely mimed performance for the filming, but it is definately NOT what the audience there heard. This makes me sad.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Manx
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 03:37 PM

....unless, of course, the CD was recorded from this performance and the crowd applause was not recorded by the soundboard. I am willing to concede this. I have overlapped 4 tracks and every one is identical.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ALCAN1
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 04:47 PM

You could be right. The CD tracks on some of the songs may be identical. I can assure you that the DVD was recorded over 2 seperate nights. The CD was done AFTER the filming. To understand why a few of the tracks may be identical to the DVD you need some background information on CW. Ill try to be as breif as possible.

CW was founded and the First DVD was recorded in September of 2004 and was released in the US and on PBS on March 1, 2005. One of the performers (MEAV) became pregnant either shortly before or shortly after the filming of the first DVD was done. As a result she wasnt able to perform for the first tour that CW did in the late spring/early summer of 2005. Therefore a replacement was named for the first tour while MEAV was on maternity leave. Her name was Deirdre Shannon. Deirdre performed in MEAVs place for the summer of 2005 and MEAV was expected to return for her first tour with CW in the fall of 2005. About 4 weeks before the fall tour started MEAV announced that she was not going to be joining the tour, that she wanted to spend time with her daughter, record her new album, and do limited solo touring. As a result Deirdre stayed on for the fall 2005 tour as well.

Deirdre performed that tour which ended in November 2005. CW returned to Ireland for the christmas holidays and they all worked on the new arrangements for the upcomming sprin 2006 tour. In December 2005 CW announced the spring tour dates which was to begin on March 8. 2006. Before the spring tour was in the US started, CW released all the solo albums of all the performers in the US under the Manhatten/EMI record label. There was one exception to this....Deirdres was not released on 1/10/06 along with the rest of them. For some reson it was held back. On Febuary 17, 2006 CW performed their first PUBLIC concert in Ireland at The Point in Dublin. Deirdre Shannon was there instead of MEAV as MEAV was still on maternity leave. The plan was that after that concert in Ireland CW was to be on a plane 5 hours after the end of that show for thier promotional tour of Japan which was to run from 2/19 - 2/28 2006. MEAV would be staying behind to care for her daughter and Deirdre would be going along with the rest of the group. Within minutes of the Point concert ending it was announced to Deirdre that MEAV would be on that plane to Japan with the rest of the group and Deirdre was fired.

The group did their promotional tour of Japan and CW was silent as to who would be attending the tour in the US untill March 1 2006. The spring tour was to start in Toronto in just 8 days. MEAV was pulled in at the last minute and forced to do the promotional tour and the US tour. Deirdre was left out in the cold and was devistated. It was just several weeks earlier that CW LTD told her that she would remain with CW untill the fall of 2006 and there was even talk about her joining the show as a permanent member. As a result of these actions by Dave Kavanagh and Sharon Browne, Deirdre took legal action against Celtic Woman LTD.

CW recorded their Christmas album in July 2006 and began work on the DVD arrangments which was to be filmed in Augest. CW announced the filming date and sent out the invite 28 days prior to the filming.

They entered into talks to bring her back in the summer of 2006 after the summer tour just prior to the filming of the DVD A New Journey on Aug. 23 - 24 2006. Deirdre was added back to the CW official site in early Augest and then she was removed from it shortly before the filming was to take place. Deirdre never returned and CW gave no statement concerning her. Several days before the filming Hayley cut her vacation short and went to Ireland to join CW.

Thus as a result of this, the DVD was filmed FIRST and the 2 CDs that were made of A New Journey was done after the filming. Thats why Hayley is on Both the CD and the DVD. Had the CD been done first Hayley wouldnt have been on the CD because she wasnt a mamber untill several days prior to the filming.

Sharon Browne was removed from her management position from CW LTD for the duration of the production of the DVD and Ivan Gavin the COO of EMI took her place. Scott Porter (Lisa Kellys husband)was added as the "company production manager" during the summer and was promoted to the GENERAL MANAGERs position after Sharon Browne was fired at the completion of the filming of A New Journey and Ivan Gavin surrendered his place as managing director (Sharon Brownes former position) to the newly created General Managers position filled by Scott Porter.

Celtic Woman did their National Tour of Japan in early October 2006 for 3 weeks. So when you take all this into account they simply didnt have enough time to record a full studio album as they did for their first CD and DVD. With the touring they were doing and a release date of 12/2/2006 for the PBS stations they would have had to use the audio from the 2 live performances for the studio album on several of the tracks.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 03:40 AM

Due to time restraints, like Alcan1 stated, I wouldn't be surprised if ALL tracks were identical, Manx. I mean, it is supposed to be the 'A New Journey 'CD so why not use the same songs from the DVD minus applause ?. Please, keep us posted. Just curious.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 01:52 PM

Okay, so I went to the Hummingbird Theatre in Toronto last night to catch Celtic Woman's live show in front of 3200+. From the 9th row centre, it was more than obvious to me that there was absolutely NO lip-synching going on, and I was paying close attention, believe me, after hearing you guys rant about how they lip synch. My conclusion ??... It was 100% real, and well worth the money to attend. I now believe all those who professed to attending a CW show and that it was a 'lip synch' fest, as one poster put it, are wrong, wrong, wrong. That lady that left after 30 minutes (guest,Cat) couldn't be more wrong. Mr. Tuba nailed it ! This issue is now put to rest, Celtic Woman are REAL and perform LIVE with NO lip-synching. End of discussion. P.S. Alcan1, now I see why you keep going back.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 05:43 PM

I thought they had an Anti-Stalking law in Torrana'!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 06:28 PM

AWG> This issue is now put to rest
AWG> End of discussion

In your dreams!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Manx
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 08:00 PM

That was a wealth of background info. Thanks, Alcan. Poor Deirdre. I have never heard of her. My Mother has just gotten me into them, as she got their albums.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 08:20 PM

Sounds like a cross between "Coronation Street, The Musical" & "Celtic Woman, First Blood" ..... Is there a chariot race?

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ALCAN1
Date: 18 Jun 07 - 12:40 AM

"Sounds like a cross between "Coronation Street, The Musical" & "Celtic Woman, First Blood" ..... Is there a chariot race?"

Yep....You got that right. You hit the nail on the head. AND THE SAGA CONTINUES!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ALCAN1
Date: 18 Jun 07 - 12:49 AM

AWG..Glad you liked the show. They are all awesome. You have to see it many times to be able to take it all in. The Hummingbird Theater is one of the bes theaters Ive seen them in and I love love to go back there. Also I still want to go to the CN Tower as well. I had that planed but I had to scrap that at the last second.

Row 9 for you isnt too bad. I had row 1 when I was there. I got very lucky on that. Was able to get 4 fromt row tickets for Brian, Jenny, Rickie and myself. It was a blast.

I love the lighting for the live tour instead of DVD. My favorite part is when during Sing out the lights sweep acroos the whole theater. I always turn around to watch them.

I was going to see them one more time this year but due to my relief at work haveing a major heart attack Ive had to cancle my trip to Washington DC. Well mybe next year. At least my coworker is OK.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 18 Jun 07 - 09:06 AM

Alcan1, my goal next time is first 2 rows. Heck, might as well be right on stage with them ! :) I can only imagine what it must have been like from your seats. Way to go ! See you at a show next year.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ALCAN1
Date: 18 Jun 07 - 11:50 AM

For future reference.....there was front row seats for Toronto on Ebay less then a month ago. And the price wasnt too bad all things considered....$250 for 2 tickets. I have gotten several tickets that way. Remember all the good seats go to the scalpers first so that is a good place to look. The seats I got for wolftrap were Row CCC Pitt. Thats third row. You have to pay more for them but as I have said in the past, the days of cheap CW tickets for the best seating are long gone. PBS has basically taken the price levels to outragous ammounts along with the meet and greets. What ever you do stay away from PBS in Boston (WGBH) they along with CW LTD ripped us off good this spring.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 18 Jun 07 - 01:24 PM

Sorry to hear that, Tony. Thanks for the heads-up. It would still be fun to go to a M & G, but how much is too much ? PBS must be catering to the rich folks, because most people wouldn't be able to spring for the $1000 or more to go. For that money, you should at least get to have dinner with the girls, and backstage at the show !! Now THAT would be an experience !! :-)

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Well into Music
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 04:07 AM

Dear All, some months later and I was checking the net for "Riverdance" and "lip synching" and I got to your forum. I am an amateur musician, but music is a big part of my life ... and I have seen lips and instruments not matching the sounds that were heard. I went recently to a Riverdance performance and I purchased a DVD. I am disappointed and irritated that (as I thought during the performance) voices and instruments do not always match.
Live is live. If it is "canned", then a CD should be enough.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,JKL
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 10:34 PM

AWG, just because the show you attended didn't appear to be li-synching doesn't mean that previous shows weren't doing it. I mean look at the "great" Pavaroti, he had been lip-synching for a long time until he was busted...after that he had no choice but to go back to singing live. Now, about the "live" DVD. I'll tell you this, I wrote to the producers of the Celtic Woman show, in a journalistic capacity, asking them directly if lip-synching was used for the DVD. The answer was that the audio heard on the DVD and the video seen are pasted together from different "performances" in order to "enhance" the DVD production. This came directly from the CV producers. As far as the "live" DVD at least, yes, it's a conclusive and total misrepresentation, by their own admission. As far as the purportedly live shows, I can speak for that because I haven't attended. My initital comment still applies, though, it's very possible that the earlier shows were in fact lip-synched, and when the rumors started flying and the questions arising, they then possibly went to real live shows. But in regards to the DVD, this is not really a live production, but a dubbed one. Cheers, J.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,JKL
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 10:41 PM

*Repost of above, correcting a few typos*

AWG, just because the show you attended didn't appear to be lip-synching doesn't mean that previous shows weren't doing it. I mean look at the "great" Pavaroti, he had been lip-synching for a long time until he was busted...after that he had no choice but to go back to singing live. Now, about the "live" DVD. I'll tell you this, I wrote to the producers of the Celtic Woman show, in a journalistic capacity, asking them directly if lip-synching was used for the DVD. The answer was that the audio heard on the DVD and the video seen are pasted together from different "performances" in order to "enhance" the DVD production. This came directly from the CW producers. As far as the "live" DVD at least, yes, it's a conclusive and total misrepresentation, by their own admission. As far as the purportedly live shows, I can't speak for that because I haven't attended. My initital comment still applies, though, it's very possible that the earlier shows were in fact lip-synched, and when the rumors started flying and the questions arising, they then possibly went to real live shows. But in regards to the DVD, this is not really a live production, but a dubbed one. Cheers, J.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,ALCAN1
Date: 13 Aug 07 - 06:48 AM

Ive been holding back for some time on this but Im going to post it publically. Yes on the live tour shows they do Lip Sync some of the songs. Her is the breakdown by performer.....you have to figure out which songs they are.


...all group numbers ( minus one). Solo songs, Orla does one live, Meav does all of hers live, Lisa does all but one live, Chloe lip sync's minus one
(8:55:34 PM) : Hayley ALWAYS sang live................

But of course Hayley is no longer with Celtic Woman

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 09:04 PM

ok, so just because they look like real woman, and sing beautifully you guys have to go out and accuse them of lip syncing?? ok. and for "i heard violin music after she stopped" she's the main fiddler. and when she isnt playing, the orchestra that accompanys them take over. so that is why you hear violin music. and have you guys ever heard of the word "PRACTICE"????? you know its what people do to get it perfect. so her jumping around on stage, isnt her first time doing it she PRACTICES! if any of you guys do music, you know what its like. their voices are genuine. they have crystal clear voices none of the chest gunk, and such. they use their voice as a musical insturment which is what it is ment for. so next time you go and ridicule celtic womans perfromance remember they PRACTICE. PRACTICE makes PERFECT...goodness people they make beautiful music and i hope they keep changing the world into a better place with their voices.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 10:06 PM

My Gawd, is this thing still going on!??

Amazing!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 10:16 PM

Wait a minute, wait a minute!!

Pavarotti lip-synching?

Documentation please!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: AWG
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 12:52 PM

Ha Ha, it lives on. I thought we all agreed already that CW does NOT lip synch. Tony, welcome back, hope things are good up there in Alaska.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,JKL
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 11:20 AM

I have a suggestion, why don't those who still refuse to accept that the Celtic Woman "live" DVD is lip-synched write to the CW producers directly, and ask them if the DVD is lip-synched or not? This way you will get the reply directly from them. The email address is [e-mail] .

As far as Pavarotti lip-synching it's well documented, do a search and see for yourself. In fact he was sued by the BBC in 1992 for selling them a taped "concert" which turned out to be dubbed. Regards, JKL

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 06:27 PM

Everyone knows that Celtic Woman is far too busy preparing for their upcoming fall USA Tour to respond to emails as lame as 'Do you lip-synch ?'. Besides, anyone who has seen the DVD or seen them 'live' knows that it is not true.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,JKL
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 11:23 PM

That's absurd...there will be someone to reply to your email, rest assured. The least you can do is try, unless you don't really want to know the truth, that is.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Josue G from Chicago
Date: 04 Dec 08 - 11:06 PM

I couldnt care less about these ladies to be honest....i mean yes, their voices are beautiful, and the slightly chubby one with the blond hair is gorgeous buuut every time im up late with nothing better to do and their "special" is on, I watch closely to see if there is any lip synching going down. I can pause and rewind my tivo a good 25 times throughout each show and catch the sound of fully breathing when they barely open their mouth, the violinist missing a full chord, the percussionists drumming late ect. I dont care wether its just for certain tv performances or not, the simple fact is that you shouldnt be subject to paying the same amount of money to hear a live performance and also to listen to a cd in a concert hall. ONE time is enough for me to doubt their honesty and for anyone to know this information and still pay an arm and a leg to go see them in "concert" is really making a fool of themself. Who knows, maybe all you defending them are just so well off that your not concerned about money, but as a college student with a part time job i wouldnt waste my time.I have a sister who is an advancing singer(and a damn good one at that) and she loves these ladies. I felt bad that i had to burst her bubble.. that she"ll never sound like that on stage or ANYBODY will for that matter. It should be a major dissappointment to their fans and anybody who says otherwise is just in plain denial. Look at the jonas brothers for instance,(i also couldnt care less anout them as well, but my sister is a fan)they SUCK at singing, but they still have the balls to go out there and give their fans a good HONEST performance, and look how far it's taken them. Stop "defending" the celtic woman, they dont need or want you to im 100% sure of this. The fact that they havent replied to anyones questions regarding the subject only shows that they dont want to lie on paper, they would much rather just do it on stage. Its a moral dilemma for them I guess...but I wouldnt waste my time or money on their morality. The only reason im responding to this now is because i feel the need to set people straight on common sense and because i have nothing better to do annnd at the moment nobody has called me regarding a party yet. peace out homies!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Bernard
Date: 05 Dec 08 - 11:47 AM

Oh!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 06:57 PM

Yes it is fake. The vocals are just too perfect with not even one tiny flaw in them. It's especially obvious when they sing together and everything is too perfectly in tune to be real.

In fact, it's worse than just lip syncing.
On the vocals recorded in the studio (and played at live performances) they used something called Autotune, which basicly makes your voice hit the perfect pitch.

It's so fake it's not even funny, yet everyone falls for it, and will continue to do so.
It's still beautiful tho.

---

Please note that anonymous posting is no longer allowed at Mudcat. Use a consistent name [in the 'from' box] when you post, or your messages risk being deleted.
Thanks.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: goatfell
Date: 27 Dec 08 - 03:43 PM

Lip synching is a rip off.

Madonna does it and all the pop stars do it as well, paying ££££'s to watch someone mime to a cd, I could do that in my house and not pay a thing

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Rich
Date: 28 Dec 08 - 11:16 PM

"Oh the one thing that pissed me off and the mugs you are refering to was the products that one member was selling with Lisas picture on it that he had printed up. That violated copywrite laws up the wazooo and Danielle amoung others were very unhappy about it."

Ah, good ol' Tony rears his head. (By the way, Tony, it's "copyright." Still fighting that losing battle with the English language, huh?)

Yes, I was the one selling the mugs on Lisa's old forum. The picture on them was a scan of my own, original artwork, so I'm not sure just what "copywrite" laws I violated. Lisa thought the idea was funny and cute, and the proceeds from the sales were donated to charity. Note that this accusation is coming form a guy who continued posting attacks on CW on that forum after Lisa specifically asked him not to. When he shows up at a CW concert, the tour manager has security keep an eye on him because they're afraid he may be dangerous. Anything Tony has to say should be taken with a large grain of salt.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Homealone
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 11:45 PM

Exciting news !!!! Celtic Woman is starting their 'Isle of Hope' tour on Feb.11., so be sure to check out their live show (emphasis on the word 'live') if you can. You'll be glad you did, it's definately a life changing experience. Also, I heard they will have a new DVD out this year, although where it will be filmed is anyone's guess at this point.   I'm in Heaven !   Cheers.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Fossil
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 04:19 AM

Lip-synching, amendment of concert sound, miming, whatever you call it is *always* a rip-off. If you can't see (and hear) the musicians sweating and making mistakes, you are *not* listening to live music and you might as well have saved your cash and stayed at home to listen to the CD. In the creation of which perfect sound is expected and multi-tracking and digital massaging and all the other tricksy bits that sound engineers can get up to is acceptable IMHO.

And there are *far* too many Guests on this thread, so I suspect that whatever consensus may be emerging will be about as reliable as CW's sound in concert...

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: goatfell
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 09:04 AM

if I was going to a concert I would expect the artist the perform live I mean that's their job I don't want to spen a fortune listening to some cd playing in the bacground I could do that at home and save money and time

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 04:16 PM

I know I'm laying my head on the chopping block here, but my acquaintance with this concert was through a PBS telecast during one of their periodic pledge breaks ("begathons"). When I saw "Celtic Woman," I thought of women singers and musicians from "The Six Celtic Nations" singing folk songs or songs associated with those regions. Songs and music with a little substance. Silly me!

I see an ensemble of quite attractive young women, but I wasn't expecting what turned out to be breathy renditions of such songs as "Over the Rainbow," "Ave Maria," and "Ashoken Farewell" (which, rather than Celtic, was written for the Kem Burns Civil War documentary mini-series).

Quite lovely. But . . . bland.

I put this particular telecast in the same category as other shows that PBS chronically schedules for pledge breaks:    André Rieu, Josh Groban, Yanni, the Doo-Wop Special, Doctor Who marathons, and self-improvement programs such as Wayne Dyer and the brain scientist who spends two hours plus (interrupted by opportunities to call in with your pledge) turning your brain to mush by telling you how to keep your brain from turning to mush.

If you watch PBS because of shows like Masterpiece Theatre and Mystery and Nova and Nature and Frontline, why do they think that the kind of pap they serve up for pledge breaks (which preempts the shows you do want to watch) is going to induce you to throw more money at them? Or induce new viewers to watch on the basis of "Celtic Woman" or Wayne Dyer, or André Rieu and his orchestra, his pleasant-sounding but somewhat pedestrian violin playing, and his slightly pained smile that makes him look as if his hemorrhoids are bothering him, when these specials are not characteristic of their regular programming?

Anyway. . . .

Much Ado About Nothing.
          —William Shakespeare

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Amber
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 07:35 PM

I saw Celtic Woman in concert, and it simply didn't look to me like the violinist was really playing. I can't explain it, but there was just something off in her bow strokes. Also, I just don't believe that someone can dance around like that yet have the stability and control necessary to play the violin well. Even with my shoulder rest, I doubt that I could play through one song while slightly hopping in place, much less dancing around. Admittedly I'm not as good as the Celtic Woman violinist, but I do have some experience, and I just don't believe it. I'd have to not only see it, but see it up close to believe it. If there were several violin experts, virtuosos who weighed in and told me that it was possible, I might be swayed, but not from the show I saw.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 08:10 PM

Concert violin virtuoso and now teacher, Nadja Salerno-Sonnenberg moves a lot when she plays, including grimacing, frowning, smiling, and generally indicating that she's really into the music. Some critic gave her a ration of grief over the way she looked when playing, so in her next performance, she tried to keep from moving or making faces. She said that she listened to a tape of the concert afterwards and it was dull and lifeless compared to the way she usually plays. So she went back to her normal practice of "letting it all hang out," and she was back in the groove again. She wasn't there to please the critics, she was there to represent the composer as best she knew how, and to please the audience.

But what Nadja Salerno-Sonnenberg wasn't just hopping, skipping, and dancing, she was really immersed in the emotions of what she was playing. When she literally "leans into it," it goes along with her bow strokes and what else she's doing. What she does on stage is far different from the happy-skippy dancing that I saw on the Celtic Woman show.

I think you can tell just by watching.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: paula t
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 01:02 PM

A few years ago I went to a "Party in the park" concert. I was really angry to see that the majority of the pop artists mimed. I felt conned and patronised.
I finally cheered up when one of the singers came on stage and began with an apology...."Unfortunately, I can't mime - so I'm going to have to sing live." Loud cheers from this old fogie in the audience! Thank-you Darren Hayes! Jamelia also sang live. Both artistes gave a flawless performance.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Gr8MomInMichigan
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 09:35 AM

My daughter and I saw CW at the Fox in Detroit Friday night (2/20/09). It was our second time to see them.

Even after our first concert, I had my suspicions due to the fact that the musicians on stage did not match that needed to produce the sound I was hearing. Then I started paying closer attention to Mairead. I realized very early that her movements with the bow would be producing far different results if her microphone were on.

I didn't have the heart to mention my suspicions to my daughter who LOVES them.

Don't get me wrong, I really did enjoy the concerts, both at the Palace and this weekend's at the Fox. This concert I sat closer and we truly able to see when Mairead's mic was on and when it wasn't. A few instances, she actually hesitates bowing to wait for the audio that she has to match. It also appears that she plays live to a few songs at the very end. The sound of her violin is very different for those songs.

I am sure that the reason they have decided to do this is so that the audience gets the greatest performance possible.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Nicola
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 12:47 PM

Slightly off the CW topic, but relevant because we decided between them and Lord of the Dance (both expensive, had to choose one). We chose Lord of the Dance. I have never been so disappointed. The entire thing was lip AND foot synced. If that makes sense. The dance steps were PIPED IN! I almost left at intermission, but my son (5) was enjoying it so much and had no idea that it was all fake, so we stayed. The entire thing, from singing to foot falls to violins, was FAKE. All played over the speakers. WHAT A RIP OFF!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,artists500
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 03:07 PM

Friends convinced me to go to Celtic Woman Isle of Hope last Friday, March 13, 2009 at Radio City Music Hall. Like I've read in previous posts, much of the show seemed prerecorded, in particular the dancing violin nymphet ("will she do the splits do you think?" my friend asked), and some orchestral sounds that weren't represented by actual musical instruments onstage. The critic who thought Nadja (who of course actually PLAYS HER INSTRUMENT) should tone down her movements while performing would probably really enjoy the (traditionally gender-correct) movements of the Celtic women, who act either like little girls (violin player) or women from some super-conservative culture dancing for their first time at the county fair, all the while singing over prerecorded sound. I cannot believe I paid money for this. They need to JUST TRY the show a few times live, and see if it works. They did nail that Enya song

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 May 09 - 03:04 AM

As a singing teacher, I'm fairly sure that Celtic Woman lip-synch many of their songs. Don't get me wrong, I love their music and I think that they're all fantastic musicians, but you can tell that many of their songs are not live. If you watch their chests (not in that way lol) when breathing it's easiest to see; when you can hear that they're taking huge breaths on the audio it never matches up to the tiny movement in their chests and throat. If you look at classical singer who always sing live (ie Sarah Brightman), they will take huge, quick breaths moving their entire diaphragm. Professional singers - particularly classically trained singers - have extraordinary control and use of their diaphragms BUT you will always see a lot of movement when they're breathing, which leads me to believe that Celtic Woman lip-synching. Also, as classically trained singers they use much vibrato, however their throats seldom move... how strange...

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,kyserkess
Date: 06 Dec 09 - 06:02 PM

I am a music engineer and producer and there is no way to get those vocals from the microphones they use or in those placements. I googled this because it is such a mockery music and live performance that it really disgusts me. Someone mentioned Madonna, and I come to think of Michael Jackson as well, but these are global first class stars that people want to see in person and dancing. Their music and vocals became so engineered later on in their career that it would be almost impossible for them to sing live, especially with their dancing coriography. HOWEVER, this Celtic Woman bolony has women just standing on stage lip syncing songs that they did not write. WHY?! The world is full of talented people that could perform these songs live, which IS the reason people go to see a live performance. They call it a CONCERT, and that is FRAUD and it should be tried in court. Some people said their children enjoy it, but children enjoy puppets. This whole production is an insult to real musicians, singers, and performers and extra insulting to have Irish people patronising Americans. If you admire this then you do not have any real appreciation for art and you have been conned. PBS should pull this off of the air immediatly and get back to allowing talent back on the airwaves.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 10:46 PM

No, there is no Auto tune. You would be able to hear it if there was. They really do have fantastic voices but they definitely do lip sync.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 12:04 PM

Very slightly off thread.

Yesterday I was an extra in a Madd Damon movie being shot in NYC. His part was as a politician. The person introducing him to the "audience" did his speech out loud when they were recording. Later, when they were only doing different angles and visuals, he "synced" to himself so that his timing was right for his movements. A really beautiful job, especially as it was his first job as a member of the Screen Actor's Guild.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,DP Kid
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 06:10 PM

The songs and artists are fantastic. Went to a show in Pgh Pa. That's when I first noticed that every single song matched what I have listened to on PBS without the slightest variation. I remarked to my wife, that there was no way that they were singing live. As I forked out a fair amount of coin for their concert I felt somewhat cheated.   I might just as well have stayed home and watched the production on youtube.   This is most likely my last "concert" and CW should consider at least giving me a few DVDs / CDs to compensate me for what basically amounts to fraud. Too bad as I actually have fallen for the girls.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Not Wilde
Date: 20 May 10 - 07:27 PM

We paid good dollars to see CW in Calgary. We took binoculars. The visuals and sound were nice but it was quite obvious the concert was a fraud. The violin music kept going when the bow stopped and we noticed them singing with their mouths closed several times. Quite a feat. A good video would have been a lot less expensive. Also, the one looks like she would rather be a country western singer with her arm waving, hip jiggling and what looked like squats pushing her knees out under her dress. The others weren't doing that. What is their choreographer doing? The crowd loved them.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 01:43 PM

It's obvious Celtic Women are li-syncing; so are Celtic Thunder and and Andre Riu and all that other junk PBS telecasts. How are we to know for sure if Celtics can really sing or are they just picked for their looks? The violin player is a joke, running around and never missing a note, Phoney baloney. It is indeed a big cheat. I can't believe the faces of all those simpletons in the audiences, taking in the big con.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,DP Kid
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 02:44 PM

Well CW is about to visit Pgh Pa again and as much as I love their music, I guess I won't be going to see them:( I just can't justify paying $160 for 2 tickets to watch some of my favorite performers lip-synch songs that they previously recorded . Makes me sad because I really love their music. While I know that many other performers have also lip-synched their material I can't afford to pay that much money for a fake performance. In the event that any of CW cast happen to read this, please know that I would love to talk to you and share my appreciation of your musical talents and also ask you to be up front about your performance so that real working folks know that what they are seeing isn't an actual live performance but a rendition of what a real performance is meant to be. ( talk about a run on sentence ) Sorry.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,marty
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 11:15 PM

They should be called Celtic Blunder! You know, you pay high prices for concert tickets and get nothing better than a magic act and it's cheaper to get the cd and enjoy at home. I'm not a fan any more since I've just watched PBS and seen for my own eyes the lips moving but the music does not go with the lips or the breaths. One singer, don't know his name actually overcompensates by gyrating his face and mouth so you maybe can't see. Sad thing.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Mar 11 - 11:43 PM

"One singer, don't know his name actually overcompensates by gyrating his face and mouth so you maybe can't see. Sad thing."

Maybe so, but that was no good reason to sing, "They're Flying High on the Saddle Tonight" at a church Sunday School picnic, imo.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: PHJim
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 01:19 AM

"Miming" is acting out a story or scene using body motions. We already have a perfectly good term, "lip-synching" to indicate mouthing the words of a song to a pre-recorded sound track, so why give a new meaning to another word.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 01:25 AM

This reminds me of "Silent Movie."

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Anna
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 11:41 PM

Hey, I noticed in the video recording of "sky and the dawn and the sun" There's a part near the beginning with the "da da da"s where I think it's Chloe and Hayley singing together in harmony, but on the cd it's just chloe. Anyone know what I'm talking about? How is that explained?

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Michael
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 04:33 AM

They lip-sync. In every concert of theirs I've ever seen, they are pretending to sing, but are clearly not singing.

Some people aren't very perceptive and will be taken in by the fact that they are very well-rehearsed, and manage to get close to the timing. But they are most certainly not singing - at all. They aren't making a sound.

When it is billed as a live concert - which all of the Celtic Women concerts are - this is extremely dishonest. many people go to concerts precisely because they want to hear the imperfect, raw sound of the artist, rather than the flawless, polished, double and triple-layered performance of video clips and CDs.

Celtic Woman are frauds. Liars and frauds. One imagines that to stage such an elaborate fraud - instead of just SING - they must sound really quite atrocious together.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 08:29 AM

It's fraud simple as that

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Kate
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 02:36 AM

I like the Celtic Women. THis does not stop me from pointing out the obvious. The fiddler here cannot be making that specific quality of sound we hear when she spins and flips so wildly around while playing----ask a top notch violinist--or top notch violin teacher. Look at the physics and science of the violin. To get the smooth connected sound she is supposedly making at all times, the bow must be in contact with the string in that "sweet spot"---among other factors, the bow must be closer to the bridge than hers is when she spins and flips. Her bow is way down on the tailpiece most of the time when she spins--and that is not surprising--in the act of spinning one's bow would not be able to stay that steady at all moments. Shame on you violinists on this thread who say the sound is all hers! Actually, I guess some violinists here actually said she is "really playing" and that I do agree with. SHe is most certainly playing it--but clearly her mike is off and the sound we hear is at the least mixed with her live playing, or may be entirely pre-recorded.   I don't know and I don't really care how they're doing this, but I really do care about the violin--and spreading misconceptions about the nature of this instrument and the physics of its sound.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Young Buchan
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 03:58 AM

I have a solution that should keep everyone happy. The answer is for those whose real talent appears to be lip synching, to leave the music world to those who actually want to really sing, and retraining as lip speakers. Lip speakers, unlike lip synchers, are usful members of the community who accompany non-signing Deaf people to lectures, public meetings etc where the speaker may be too far away to lipread, or frequently changes, and relay the speech with clear lip pattern to the Deaf person.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: Baz Bowdidge
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 08:54 AM

As the Youtube uploader said in 2009 - 'You decide'
Click here

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 09:53 PM

Where there's smoke there's fire.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Cat - Arkansas Fan
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 05:05 PM

As a fan of Celtic Woman for several years now, I have always enjoyed their music. However, I have been very disheartened to hear some of the things on this message thread. I can totally understand (as when Chloe recently went on stage with 103 degree fever) why the need for a voice recording could be necessary. I can also understand how the need for a break on some of the numbers would help the ladies' voices, as they perform numerous shows in 3 months. That being said, however, I do also believe that if you pay money to see someone perform live, then that is what you should get. Live vocals, live music, etc. I also know how disappointed I as well as every other fan would be if someone were to walk out and say "Oh we are sorry but Chloe won't be performing tonight because she has a sore throat." Her presence on stage is part of the enjoyment of the concert. We all know that they can sing. That's obvious. So maybe a helpful friendly suggestion to the people of CW would put all of this to rest. Schedule half the shows in that same time period and give the performers breaks between the shows. Don't make an impossible schedule that they cannot physically and vocally keep up with. Then we would get to see truly live performances, and I'm sure the performers would feel more satisfaction in what they are bringing to the stage.
In conclusion, these people are human and not super human. They cannot be perfect and kudos to them for adding a little stage "magic" to help give that illusion. But for those used to going to 100% live concerts, I can understand the complaint. And I guess if you have such a problem with it then you should choose not to go...and for those of us that like the experience we will continue to go.
Not saying I believe or don't believe what some have stated...but it's a performance...not a country music concert with a band. You have to expect some things like this.
That's all I have to say! Love to Lisa K and Lisa L and Chloe and Mairead, and welcome to Susan.. keep up the good work and see you in Little Rock in April

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 12 - 07:57 PM

I was just at the Celtic Women's performance here in Tampa and was in the second row, center. My father and stepmother treated my husband and i for Valentine's. Amazing seats!! I was not familiar with the group but I had heard of them, and within the first minute of the first song, my husband and I looked at each other and whispered, 'is this fake?' The short and the long of it, as I have read most of the posts above is yes they ARE lip syncing- you hear the difference when it is the recorded track and then they are truly singing when they aren't dancing around the stage and it's a solo or just two of them. When they are singing without any musical instruments playing loudly, yes they are truly singing- we could hear their voices a split second before it came on the speakers, and you could see the difference as to the throat muscles moving, etc. exactly what you read above in other posts. And the violin player (bad, I don't know their names, right? she is spritely little thing and who runs across the stage, playing her bow right over her long hair and the song sounds perfect. Um, sorry, don't by it. I feel like I saw her hands not moving in time to the song either, and I don't need to play the violin to think that.. the annoying part of this whole thing is, that this is what my husband and I couldn't help focus on!! My dad and stepmother loved it, maybe cause they couldn't see what we saw and need glasses, (NO insult meant to fans!) Listen, the girls are beautiful, it was entertaining, they sang Danny Boy for goodness sake! But as the Celtic Women, please call it what it is, a Great Show instead of trying to make it seem like a true singing performance. If you are gonna lie, do it better when ignorance can be bliss. ;)

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 12 - 08:06 PM

(continued from the last post) the few songs we could tell they were singing, were dead on and amazing. That was only a few, like one song each, that MOST of the song was sung and not 'looped' in. Ave Maria puts chills up my spine and ALL of it sung. That being said, still worth seeing for the entertainment value and to see these few songs. My suggestion, DON'T sit up close! You will be aggravated at the difference since you will see when they are singing and when they mouth the words! St in the back and take in the whole show, it really was great!

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Skeptical Fan
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 06:26 AM

I discovered this forum when I did a Google search to see if there was anything about the Celtic Woman violinist being a fake onstage because I am convinced her performances are indeed faked. I just wanted confirmation of that.

Let me also state that I continue to be a fan of Celtic Woman and I don't want to bring them down. I own two of their DVD's, two of their CD's, and I have seen them live in concert once. I have never sensed that the singers were lip syncing but I feel the violinist is faking her performance.

Since I played the viola for years, I have a pretty good sense of finger and bow movements. Before seeing Celtic Woman play live, I had no inkling whatsoever that there might be any faking going on, but when I saw the violinist performing I started to sense a disconnect and the closer I looked the more convinced I was. The movements of the bow and a close look at where her fingers are on the strings while the notes are being played seem clearly to be unsynchronized, not to mention that I don't think it's possible to get that quality of perfect sound when flitting across the stage as she does. They put on a nice show and the music is terrific, but I believe the violinist is a fake.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 03 Jun 13 - 01:14 PM

I just went on YouTube an hour ago and played the song Seven Drunken Nights from the Celtic Thunder Voyage CD on an IPod. I clicked it at the same time and it sounded exactly the same!!!!! Either they did record it at that moment for the CD or put in the CD then they moved their lips to make it look live even though it might not be.







I am SO Confused!!!!!!
Please help!!!!!
Guest:)

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Jason Heuberger
Date: 27 Sep 14 - 08:05 PM

I have followed Celtic Woman around for many years now, and have researched each of the artists that are in the group. I have watched videos of them singing at younger ages. I have watched videos of Mairead playing outside of concerts. They are not fake. I have been to their concert previously. By your statement, you make it sound like if something is played perfectly and sung perfectly, then it is fake? So Mozart was fake? Bach was fake? AC/DC was fake? Jackson 5 was fake? I'm also part Irish and I can assure, the Irish are to proud of their musical heritage to even think about faking a live concert. Mairead has been playing for to long to even think about insulting her craft like that. The issue here, is that you people are used to listening to American music that has been vocally corrected on DVD's and CD's so that when you hear them in concert, they sound off key. Celtic Woman, do not hire slobs that can't sing. They take the best of the best. Do you think that just anyone can become part of Celtic Woman? No. You not only insult an amazing group of musicians and singers, but you insult a whole heritage by saying that they are fake. By claiming that their chest movement and mouths are matched up right, so you can out sing them? Or you have experience in any type of musical arena to know what to look for? When a singer is properly singing, there shouldn't be a bunch of body movement from their chest. If there is, they are singing wrong. When you are singing correctly, you are using your diaphragm...which would not make your whole chest move. If your throat is making a bunch of movements, then that means you are not singing from your diaphragm, you are singing from your throat, which would making hitting the high note perfectly, impossible. to properly sing, you would use both your diaphragm and opening your throat as if you were yawning. Doing this would making chest movement minimal and throat movement almost non-existent. If they were faking anything, then out of the millions of people that have heard and seen them in concert, more than 5 or 6 people would be bringing it to the light. That major musical critics have not and currently aren't, stands by itself, as evidence that they are not faking their concerts.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 28 Sep 14 - 01:28 PM

There are so many arguments each way this is just being contentious. Change pitch or tone, your throat IS going to shift as the diaphragm's only the birthplace of the sound, it then passe across the larynx en route for the nasal cavities, normally. On the other hand, how do you knowe they didn't record and film at the same time? Diving for National Pride recalls Dr Johnson's aphorism, but after all's said and done does it matter? If they perform right, then give them their dues.
Sometimes it's impossible, the amount of work done in creating the master: no performance will ever match it. And it'll be impossble to demand a particular Adnams on stage each night...

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 14 - 02:32 AM

Let us know when you come down from your crack high, Jason. That stuff messes up your judgement.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 14 - 05:32 PM

Why would anyone go to a Celtic Woman concert anyway. They are way over produced and way too slick.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: GUEST,Ingelief
Date: 13 Feb 18 - 03:15 PM

Hello some year ago this thread was live. Idk if anybody reads this??

But im sure that CW is not singing live. Last 2 hours ive read any post above.

Tell me this.. if they are singing the whole concert live why then at the tour believe (dvd maybe?) You see on youtube do they have a head mic?? And some solos or with 2 they get a real hand mic and sing really live.

Why switch mics i few times if the head mic is fine for other songs to sing live.

My idol michael jackson always sung live with a hand mic. When a head mic was on he was dancing he lipsynced.

Not perse a fan. But beyonce mostly sings live and uses a hand mic.

*a call a hand mic a microphone they hold in there hands the long onces.. also uses on a standard.. if they stand behind it.


The headmic also says on if they uses the hand mic in CW.. so its not the mic isnt used after that..

They use the head mic to there face to say thank you. To speak.

For that its fine look al chloe saying thank you or good job.. its way softer then her just singing thats bc the singing wasmt live but done over a pre recorded track.

Then look at meav susan and lisa lambe singing christmas songs. All live all with a Hand mic.

You can tell by this alone its not real!!

Im so angry and upset by it.

I wish they would come clean. That way i could love them maybe but other part is chloe is gone now lisa both of them gone. And david downses is gone. The new group just doesnt do it for me.

Now 1 Q to the person who told story about deirde? Why was she removed added removed ? ??? And why did CW the girls get alomg with it if it was bad management? Why would they accept treating a fellow CW like that ?????


Hope people will react.

Subject: RE: Lip-synching: Art or Rip-off?
From: goatfell
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 05:13 PM

Answer rip off