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BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?

Little Hawk 06 Jan 07 - 12:58 AM
GUEST,TOO 05 Jan 07 - 11:48 PM
GUEST 05 Jan 07 - 09:18 PM
Don Firth 05 Jan 07 - 08:12 PM
fumblefingers 05 Jan 07 - 08:11 PM
number 6 05 Jan 07 - 06:43 PM
Don Firth 05 Jan 07 - 06:35 PM
Little Hawk 05 Jan 07 - 05:53 PM
Don Firth 05 Jan 07 - 04:29 PM
Little Hawk 05 Jan 07 - 03:18 PM
Ebbie 05 Jan 07 - 02:54 PM
Don Firth 05 Jan 07 - 02:36 PM
artbrooks 05 Jan 07 - 02:05 PM
GUEST 05 Jan 07 - 01:51 PM
Little Hawk 05 Jan 07 - 01:29 PM
GUEST 05 Jan 07 - 01:44 AM
Don Firth 05 Jan 07 - 01:11 AM
Little Hawk 04 Jan 07 - 11:51 PM
Peace 04 Jan 07 - 11:31 PM
artbrooks 04 Jan 07 - 11:21 PM
Ebbie 04 Jan 07 - 10:44 PM
Don Firth 04 Jan 07 - 10:31 PM
Don Firth 04 Jan 07 - 10:04 PM
GUEST 04 Jan 07 - 09:51 PM
Don Firth 04 Jan 07 - 03:28 PM
Ebbie 04 Jan 07 - 02:55 PM
GUEST 04 Jan 07 - 01:49 PM
GUEST 03 Jan 07 - 11:22 PM
Peace 03 Jan 07 - 10:56 PM
GUEST,Nervous? Me? Nervous? Who says I'm nervous? 03 Jan 07 - 10:48 PM
Peace 03 Jan 07 - 08:25 PM
GUEST 03 Jan 07 - 08:22 PM
GUEST,Jazebeck 02 Jan 07 - 11:24 PM
Don Firth 02 Jan 07 - 08:58 PM
GUEST,Rex-84 02 Jan 07 - 08:54 PM
Bill D 02 Jan 07 - 07:42 PM
GUEST 02 Jan 07 - 05:45 PM
heric 01 Jan 07 - 01:18 PM
Little Hawk 31 Dec 06 - 10:26 PM
Don Firth 31 Dec 06 - 04:23 PM
Little Hawk 31 Dec 06 - 03:51 PM
GUEST,heric 31 Dec 06 - 01:13 PM
GUEST 31 Dec 06 - 12:51 PM
Don Firth 30 Dec 06 - 02:30 PM
Little Hawk 30 Dec 06 - 02:05 PM
GUEST 30 Dec 06 - 01:31 PM
artbrooks 30 Dec 06 - 01:28 PM
Don Firth 30 Dec 06 - 01:15 PM
number 6 30 Dec 06 - 10:01 AM
Peace 30 Dec 06 - 02:19 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 12:58 AM

Thanks, Guest. Mishima was an interesting character allright.

Regarding the football stadiums: The immense footprint of Roman civilization is still all over western society, and one of the things we have inherited from them is huge sports arenas...our version of the collosseums that were located in all larger Roman cities, and which were a mark of a city's entry into "the big leagues". Another thing we inherited is the huge oval racetrack where betting is done on horse races. Any such large facility is handy for an authoritarian state, since a lot of people can be held prisoner inside it by guarding just a few entrances. I doubt that they designed the big stadiums with that conscious purpose in mind, but they are always there when a rogue government needs them. People were corralled in such a stadium and tortured and killed by Pinochet's military government in Chile when Allende was overthrown by a CIA-supported coup. Interestingly enough, that happened on Sep 11...1973.   (seems to be a very unlucky date)

Here's a brief summary:

"On September 11, 1973, a military coup d'état removed Allende. The intervention was extremely violent from the very beginning. The rebels surrounded the La Moneda Palace with tanks and infantry troops and bombed it with Hawker Hunter fighter jets. The president and some of his aides were besieged in the palace. Allende refused to surrender, and addressed the nation for a last time in a potent farewell speech.

The worst violence occurred in the first few months after the coup, with the number of suspected leftists killed or "disappeared" soon reaching into the thousands. In the days immediately following the coup, the National Stadium was used as a concentration camp holding 40,000 prisoners. Some of the most famous cases of "desaparecidos" are Charles Horman, a U.S. citizen who was tortured and killed during the coup itself; Chilean songwriter Víctor Jara, murdered while held prisoner at the Chile Stadium immediately after the coup, and the October 1973 Caravan of Death (Caravana de la Muerte) where at least 70 persons were killed. Approximately 130,000 individuals were arrested in a three-year period, with the number of dead and "disappeared" reaching into the thousands within the first few months. Most of the people targeted had been supporters of Allende."


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: GUEST,TOO
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 11:48 PM

Jaysus, Mary, and Joseph, not to mention Holy Moses!

Now FOOTBALL is a government plot!


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 09:18 PM

No proof. Man. Look at the story above about the under-reported stories of 2006. Kellog-Brown & Root got $385 million last year to build concentration camps. And what about the Astrodome after Hurricane Katrina? Those folks were held in there at gunpoint. THAT'S why football is so insanely funded at the expense of education in the U.S., so each little town will have a stadium, a containment facility. One of the most effective methods of slaughter during the Rwandan civil war was to collect Tutsis in stadiums, under U.N. guard, so the guards could withdraw at night and let the Hutus in, with their machetes. Identical "containment facilities" are everywhere you look in the U.S.

As far as the GPS coordinates in Taylor, I don't have them. I thought I recalled the directions from a radio interview, but looking at a map disc now I guess I don't have them straight. The reporter said to take Hwy 79 east off I.H. 35, toward Taylor. He said something about this and that in Taylor (which I didn't get), but then he said stay on the hwy 79 access road to Oak street and take a right on Doak. Both those streets are on my disc, south of Taylor, and they do intersect. So if you can find Oak St. (south of Taylor and just south of the R.R. tracks), then follow it until it pretty much ends, take a right on Doak and go south. I think he said the facility is a block or so after that turn. Doak is only 4-5 blocks long. The man said a residential area's on one side of the street and the containment facility on the other. You might want to look at one of the mapping sites because I couldn't describe the hwy 79 access thing if I had to. The place is called the "T. Don Hutto Residential Center."

And yeah, I know what you mean Little Hawk about the noise on the net. I get tired of just trying to prove the obvious to people. I mean, like the KBR story...man. The GOVT admits it, KBR admits it, but I'm a kook if I mention it. Been years since I've studied reincarnation, but back when I was doing that, I read a series of 4 novels by a Japanese writer named Yukio Mishima (pen name). His final four novels were connected, following a reincarnated soul. Amazing writing, really good in translation. Anyway, that's the best fictional reading I've ever come across on the topic of reincarnation. The Sea of Fertility cycle, it's called. You might look for those.


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 08:12 PM

Apathy is an individual thing, number 6. Harken to the following parable:

Some months ago, I heard someone being interviewed on my local NPR affiliate. He was African-American. He described attending a meeting in which a number of African-Americans were bemoaning the fact that what was needed these days was another leader like Martin Luther King. This "Oh, woe is me, who will lead us?" business went on for a bit, and things really looked glum.

Then a teen-aged girl stood up and leveled a blast of oratory on them, chiding them strenuously for their passivity and failure to see the obvious:   "You!" she said. "You are the leaders that you are waiting for! Now, get to work!"

The man being interviewed said that he teared up with emotion, first at the wisdom of one so young, and then at the rightness of what she said.

Now! Get to work!!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: fumblefingers
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 08:11 PM

Date: 03 Jan 07 - 11:22 PM

There are other versions of that video on the web. One is twice as long. Tomorrow there should be photos of the FEMA concentration camp in Taylor, Texas online. A crew filmed a lot out there yesterday.

Please provide GPS coordinates of this "FEMA concentration camp" and I'll drive down to Taylor this weekend and check out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: number 6
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 06:43 PM

Provided you get out and work it!

True Don ... but the problem with the apathetic society we have become is getting people to "get out and work it".

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 06:35 PM

Right. With just about any subject that there is no general agreement on, for every person who has actually thought some about it, there are a dozen others who insist on jumping into the pond and knee-jerking like crazy. Tends to muddy the water a bit.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 05:53 PM

No, well, I didn't mean to imply anything like that about you, Don. Just musing about internet conversations in a general sense. It's often a case of "too many cooks spoil the soup" is what I mean.


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 04:29 PM

Well, heck, Little Hawk, I'm up for serious discussions of UFOs and reincarnation any old time. Just don't make the mistake of assuming you know what my thoughts are on those matters before I state them.

There's a lot of that going around.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 03:18 PM

I used to discuss stuff like reincarnation and UFOs a lot here, Guest, but I got sick of fighting with various other people about it when it didn't meet their preconceived ideas about reality, so I hardly bother to anymore.

Yeah, I think we probably tend to reincarnate in "groups", as you put it...meaning we repeatedly seek close involvement with certain key individuals, and very often through close family relationships. And the family roles can be reversed and switched around, so you get a chance to try things from the other angle, and find out what your counterparts were having to deal with. Yes, indeed. It seems likely to me.

But it's a big subject.

It's generally more pleasant talking about things to people in person than it is on the Net, because for one thing you can limit the discussion sensibly to yourself and one or two other people without complete strangers barging in suddenly from God knows where and telling you what an idiot they think you are... ;-)

On the other hand, talking on a computer is very convenient too, cos you don't even have to get out of your chair to do it... ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 02:54 PM

Don Firth, thanks for saying it much better than I can.


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 02:36 PM

I am deeply concerned about the erosion of the Bill of Rights and other areas of the Constitution that has occurred under the Bush administration. And I don't need be reminded of what led up to Nazi Germany and its echoes in some of the ominous trends in this country right now. In fact, in many threads I have warned of this—and pointed out that the current system in the United States is less and less of a democratic republic and is oozing toward a fascist state. I have pointed out Mussolini's statement several times:   "Fascism should more properly be called 'corporatism,' since it is the merger of state and corporate power." Anyone who hasn't noticed that this is pretty much the direction this country has taken recently just hasn't been paying attention.

And you know what? People gave me grief for overstating the case.

As far as GUEST's pointing out potential concentration camps is concerned, he's a Johnnie-come-lately to this idea. There are thousands of places all over the country that could be used as concentration camps. There are decommissioned military camps complete with barbed wire and barracks, all over the country. Should the government decide to round people up and herd them into concentration camps, there is no need for them to use places like closed schools or factories, city parks, or active, busy commercial facilities such as the Seattle-Tacoma International airport (even if you could chain someone to the rings they use for tying down private planes in parking areas).

Is what GUEST warns of possible? Oh, yes! But is it any kind of imminent danger? Bloody unlikely! There are more important things out there that we should be concerned with, and this effort at fear-mongering that GUEST is engaged in merely distracts from the real issues. Buying a bunch of ammunition, loading up your deer rifle, and hiding it under your bed may make you feel more secure and help you stave off your nightmares—but you're not doing much of value in the real world.

It may be limping a bit, but the political system in this country still works. Provided you get out and work it!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: artbrooks
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 02:05 PM

LH, it's not really that this is being dismissed out of hand. However, ANON.GUEST continues to present items as fact that various people here know are untrue. We are then told that what we know is in error, or our statements of fact are dismissed out of hand. We are then basically left with a choice between two options: either the general statement there are facilities being prepared in the US (and Canada) that are intended to be used as concentration camps is true although the specifics provided are not; or this guy is, in your words, a total nutbar. Please feel free to make your own choice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 01:51 PM

Yeah, Little Hawk, that would be nice. To be able to pursue those goals and use the internet for enlightenment. Unfortunately the powers that be have gone into their endgame, and now it's time to kill us. So unnecessary, too. 20 or so banking families control the world and have decided we're redundant, so we have to go. They've patiently bought up governments, corporations, stock exchanges, real estate, people, police forces, militaries, and now they're going to put their investments to work for them. We will exterminated, then the exterminators will be exterminated. I just wish the exterminators would wake up to the system they're serving. It's the system that will kill their families too.

I've been bogged down in the 9/11 stuff the past 5 years, and all the stuff leading up to it and flowing out of it, but those other topics are interesting. Haven't had much time to consider them though. Have you started threads on them? A while back I read a piece by some guy who said we're reincarnated in groups. Like in a family group, you may be the mother or father this time around, and next time around you'll be the child in a group with the same kind of dynamics. Sound familiar? He had a name for it but I don't recall and wouldn't know how to search.


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 01:29 PM

"You guys WANT this sort of thing to be true, don't you?"

No, Don. Not particularly. ;-) Here is what I want:

1. A peaceful life, good health, a reasonable income, and something to believe in.

2. A free and honest flow of information to the public about matters of importance.

3. To be able to talk about something I find interesting without being dismissed offhand as a total nutbar just because I see it differently than someone else does... (meaning subjects such as: UFOs, life after death, reincarnation, 911 plot topics, the existence of God, and the subject of this thread)

Is that too much to hope for? ;-) Well, apparently it is. Specially on the Internet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 01:44 AM

It's just a matter of informing. The mainstream media is owned by the government. It reports government propaganda. No government would ever admit to something like this.

Fortunately we have the internet, but politicians are trying to kill it. While it lasts, though, the news is out there. I posted about a concentration camp in Taylor, Texas. Who on this forum outside that area would know about that if not for the internet?

Connect the dots. Look at what can be substantiated as a "camp." Look at the legislation already codified into law regarding who the enemy is (YOU are if the govt says so). Look at Gitmo and the outsourcing of torture by the CIA to middle eastern and eastern European countries. Look at the open borders while television tells you how our officials are conducting "round-ups." Home invasions by ski-masked cops, nullification of the Bill of Rights by congress. No one but the enemies of this country want this to be true. Bullets, ballots or words, and ballots aren't working. Let's hope words do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 01:11 AM

You guys WANT this sort of thing to be true, don't you? Just so you can gloat that you're right. Even if they're hauling you off, too.

That must be a very satisfying thought.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 11:51 PM

Well, my grandfather was in Prague, Czechoslovakia in the late 30's, and he was dead sure nothing drastic was going to happen there (with regard to the Nazis). Sometimes you're right about that sort of thing, sometimes you're not.

If you turn out to be right and nothing happens, you can grin and say "I told you so". If not...well, too bad.


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Peace
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 11:31 PM

However, one must wonder if Japanese-Americans and Japanese born in the USA spoke this way in the 1940s. (Or Canada for that matter.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: artbrooks
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 11:21 PM

Hey Don...nobody's even mentioned McNeil Island yet! Right across from Ft. Lewis...they can use them black heelocopters to take secret prisoners out there and never even cross civilian territory. And the VA is also right there - just the place for experimentation!


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 10:44 PM

Guest, Robert Pastor's ideas don't have a snowball's chance in the tropics. He is considered "extreme left and almost anti-American". When his views become mainstream even youthful you will be long gone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 10:31 PM

By the way, the hangars and maintenance facilities at Sea-Tac are currently being used for their intended purposes: sheltering and servicing aircraft. They do that at airports.

Sea-Tac is a busy, active airport, one of the major U. S. jumping-off points for commercial airliners for Asia and other parts of the world. My sister's husband was a pilot (recently retired) for Northwest Airlines. He flew in and out of Sea-Tac all the time.

I've been all over that place. "Shackle-rings?" Not inside the hangars. There ARE what those with vivid imaginations might consider "shackle-rings" in some outside parking areas. They're for the purpose of tying down small private planes in case of wind, which we get a lot of around here, especially this time of year.

Now--how about the Woodland Park Zoo?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 10:04 PM

So ANY sizable building or compound (area enclosed by a fence) could be used as a concentration camp? Of course! But the fact that there are a lot of sizable buildings and fenced areas around doesn't, ipso facto, mean that's proof that they are intended to be used as concentration camps.

You're going to have to do a whole lot better than that, GUEST.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 09:51 PM

Sea-Tac would be hangars. They have them here. Old airport hangars with shackle rings in the concrete floors. Had them in place prior to Y2K. That was the event used to justify the building and conversion of a lot of these centers, and some of them are at airports. Bergstrom AFB (local) closed around that time, and it now has a dual purpose--sound stages (the Spy Kids movies were shot there), and FEMA buildings, at least one of which has the bedspace in a hangar. I remember the local news actually showed the insides of the hangars before New Years eve, 1999. Reporters were let into a hangar and they broadcast video of the shackle rings, to let the public know everything would be done to take care of rioters if the computers all failed. I'll look for that film someday...bound to have been uploaded to the web by now.

As far as Alaska being impractical, Siberia wasn't too out of the way for the Soviet political prisoners, was it? And who says they'll get the luxury of heat? Alaska's where the timber is, so if you have a divergent political outlook, you'll end up working in the logging industry. State politicians in Oregon already tried to pass life imprisonment in logging camps for "terrorist" acts like demonstrating:

(b) When a person is convicted of terrorism under this section, the court shall order that the person be confined for a minimum of 25 years without possibility of parole, release to post-prison supervision, release on work release or any form of temporary leave or employment at a forest or work camp....

http://www.cuttingedge.org/news_updates/na625.htm

Are you trying to say that this is a worldwide phenomenon? Last I looked, Canada was not part of the US.

Then look again. Waco, Texas, 2005, leaders of Canada, Mexico and the U.S. began the merging of the 3 countries:

On June 21, viewers of CNN's Lou Dobbs Tonight heard the alarming introduction to a segment of the program devoted to the future of the United States of America. "The Bush administration's open-borders policy and its decision to ignore the enforcement of this country's immigration laws is part of a broader agenda," Dobbs intoned. "President Bush signed a formal agreement that will end the United States as we know it, and he took the step without approval from either the U.S. Congress or the people of the United States."

Here's a link to the video clip:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2006/030706loudobbs.htm

There's lots of information on the web if you search "North American Union," "Security and Prosperity Partnership," "NAFTA superhighway," etc.

Europe was flooded with people of different cultures before they were duped into the European Union. The same is happening here. Only, this scenario has the potential to get pretty bloody. That's why the U.S. govt has built so many concentration camps. In England I think they're called "rest and relocation centres." lol


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 03:28 PM

I've checked a lot of web sites that talk about FEMA concentration camps. There is a lot of stuff out there. But checking the list of "known concentrations camps," for Washington State they list two locations with which I am intimately familiar:

"Sea-Tac" or the Seattle Tacoma International Airport, which they list as a "relocation center." Well—what the hell else would you consider an international airport to be but a "relocation center?" They "relocate" thousands of people every day. I have been "relocated" at least a dozen times through the Seattle-Tacoma airport, both going and coming.

The Sand Point Naval Air Station, which, they claim, was a detention camp for protesters during the WTO riots in Seattle in 1999. In my lengthy post on 28 Dec 06 - 03:35 PM, I explain what this particular "concentration camp" actually is. A city park.

As far as the Seattle area is concerned, they missed the Woodland Park Zoo. My God, there are large fenced-in areas, moats, and even cages there!!!   

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 02:55 PM

"The really big prison labor camps will be in the Northwest U.S., Alaska and Canada, where the mining and timber industries will need slave labor." Guest

Why in Alaska?
In Alaska, utility costs would be extremely high- surely these detention camps would be placed where the costs of running them would be lower.

Why in Canada?
Are you trying to say that this is a worldwide phenomenon? Last I looked, Canada was not part of the US.

If this is the inescapable, inexorable trend of the future, why not remove yourself from it now? If you wait too long, it may be too late.

Human beings are odd.


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 01:49 PM

http://jonesreport.com/

19 minute googlevideo at the top of the page. Is this a concentration camp? Film from a couple of days ago.

The Democrats are about to legalize all illegals, and Bush has said he'd sign the bill. The bill will make all future people who come to the U.S. "legal," no matter how they got here. There are a few foreigners in these camps around the U.S. right now, but there will soon BE no illegal immigrants, by law, yet they're erecting these things as fast as they can.

So who are they for?

They're for American citizens. The American dollar is being devalued at a record rate, and soon Americans will be like the Germans in pre-war Germany, trying to trade a wheelbarrow full of dollars for a loaf of bread. THAT'S when the rioting will start, and THAT'S what the camps are for. Rioters. And dissenters. The camps are to be used for purges in America. Being built in plain view.

The one in Taylor is small, but it's a hundred feet from a rail line, so it looks like it'll be used as a processing center. The really big prison labor camps will be in the Northwest U.S., Alaska and Canada, where the mining and timber industries will need slave labor.


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 11:22 PM

There are other versions of that video on the web. One is twice as long. Tomorrow there should be photos of the FEMA concentration camp in Taylor, Texas online. A crew filmed a lot out there yesterday.


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Peace
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 10:56 PM

However, that same sort of thing was said in Germany in the 1930s, Chile in the early 1970s and Argentina in the late 1970s. The fact that one thing is scary doesn't make something else less scary.


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: GUEST,Nervous? Me? Nervous? Who says I'm nervous?
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 10:48 PM

The narrator uses a lot of pure supposition as the camera pans around, along with loaded imagery. Gas pipes (she says) located in areas that (she says) have never been heated before. Obviously, the idea is to conjure up fears of the WW2 death camps in Germany. Any old factory or defense plant that is no longer in use will look a lot like that. Security cameras, turnstiles, high fences with barbed wire at the top. It proves nothing except that some people have vivid imaginations. The fly-over by the "black helicopter" is the cherry on top.

If you want something that will really scare your socks off, try this. Just because it starts out looking like a car commercial, don't let that fool you. You'll get there soon enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Peace
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 08:25 PM

I hope people don't wake up one day saying, "Why didn't someone tell me?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jan 07 - 08:22 PM

http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=11291&pst=725484

At the bottom of the page are 3 aerial views, one of Tyler, Texas, one of Beech Grove, Indiana. FEMA camps, according to the captions. Credible because they're on rail lines. The bottom photo is of Gundersen Steel. Do a search of that and you'll see they make rail cars, and there are lots of stories about them making JPATS with shackles, ready to transport people.

So America's about to be merged with Mexico and Canada. The borders should have been closed on 9/12/2001 if we were "under attack," but they weren't, and now there are upwards of 30 million illegals in the U.S. And Bush has said he'll sign an amnesty if congress passes it, but the Republicans have shot down Democratic legislation on this for the past 8 years. But now the Dems will pass the bill, Bush will sign it, and all "illegals" will become "legal."

So, who are these camps for? Millions of beds just waiting, for what?

Video of the Beech Grove camp is various places on the internet, like here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=277826260716604258


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: GUEST,Jazebeck
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 11:24 PM

Shatner is a vitally important person who is at the center of pretty well everything that really matters in the USA and in much of the world. His goofy showbiz personality is only there to camouflage his real activities. He is huge. I'm not kidding. Absolutely huge.


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 08:58 PM

I got "This page cannot be displayed" I did a "View Source" and came up with the URL for a William Shatner fan site.

I'm not sure what point that's supposed to prove.

Did The Beast from The Book of Revelation (666) undergo a sex change or something? And what would William Shatner's fans know about that?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: GUEST,Rex-84
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 08:54 PM

Top 25 Censored Stories of 2007

http://www.projectcensored.org/censored_2007/index.htm

#14 Homeland Security Contracts KBR to Build Detention Centers in the US

Halliburton's subsidiary KBR (formerly Kellogg, Brown and Root) announced on January 24, 2006 that it had been awarded a $385 million contingency contract by the Department of Homeland Security to build detention camps in the United States.

According to a press release posted on the Halliburton website, "The contract, which is effective immediately, provides for establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to augment existing Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Detention and Removal Operations (DRO) Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs. The contingency support contract provides for planning and, if required, initiation of specific engineering, construction and logistics support tasks to establish, operate and maintain one or more expansion facilities."

What little coverage the announcement received focused on concerns about Halliburton's reputation for overcharging U.S. taxpayers for substandard services.

Less attention was focused on the phrase "rapid development of new programs" or what type of programs might require a major expansion of detention centers, capable of holding 5,000 people each. Jamie Zuieback, spokeswoman for ICE, declined to elaborate on what these "new programs" might be.

Only a few independent journalists, such as Peter Dale Scott, Maureen Farrell, and Nat Parry have explored what the Bush administration might actually have in mind.

Scott speculates that the "detention centers could be used to detain American citizens if the Bush administration were to declare martial law." He recalled that during the Reagan administration, National Security Council aide Oliver North organized the Rex-84 "readiness exercise," which contemplated the Federal Emergency Management Agency rounding up and detaining 400,000 "refugees" in the event of "uncontrolled population movements" over the Mexican border into the U.S.

North's exercise, which reportedly contemplated possible suspension of the Constitution, led to a line of questioning during the Iran-Contra Hearings concerning the idea that plans for expanded internment and detention facilities would not be confined to "refugees" alone.

It is relevant, says Scott, that in 2002 Attorney General John Ashcroft announced his desire to see camps for U.S. citizens deemed to be "enemy combatants." On February 17, 2006, in a speech to the Council on Foreign Relations, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld spoke of the harm being done to the country's security, not just by the enemy, but also by what he called "news informers" who needed to be combated in "a contest of wills."

Since September 11 the Bush administration has implemented a number of interrelated programs that were planned in the 1980s under President Reagan. Continuity of Government (COG) proposals—a classified plan for keeping a secret "government-within-the-government" running during and after a nuclear disaster—included vastly expanded detention capabilities, warrantless eavesdropping, and preparations for greater use of martial law.

Scott points out that, while Oliver North represented a minority element in the Reagan administration, which soon distanced itself from both the man and his proposals, the minority associated with COG planning, which included Cheney and Rumsfeld, appear to be in control of the U.S. government today.

Farrell speculates that, because another terror attack is all but certain, it seems far more likely that the detention centers would be used for post-September 11-type detentions of rounded-up immigrants rather than for a sudden deluge of immigrants flooding across the border.

Vietnam-era whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg ventures, "Almost certainly this is preparation for a roundup after the next September 11 for Mid-Easterners, Muslims and possibly dissenters. They've already done this on a smaller scale, with the 'special registration' detentions of immigrant men from Muslim countries, and with Guantánamo."

Parry notes that The Washington Post reported on February 15, 2006 that the National Counterterrorism Center's (NCTC) central repository holds the names of 325,000 terrorist suspects, a fourfold increase since fall of 2003.
Asked whether the names in the repository were collected through the NSA's domestic surveillance program, an NCTC official told the Post, "Our database includes names of known and suspected international terrorists provided by all intelligence community organizations, including NSA."

As the administration scoops up more and more names, members of Congress have questioned the elasticity of Bush's definitions for words like terrorist "affiliates," used to justify wiretapping Americans allegedly in contact with such people or entities.

A Defense Department document, entitled the "Strategy for Homeland Defense and Civil Support," has set out a military strategy against terrorism that envisions an "active, layered defense" both inside and outside U.S. territory. In the document, the Pentagon pledges to "transform U.S. military forces to execute homeland defense missions in the . . . U.S. homeland." The strategy calls for increased military reconnaissance and surveillance to "defeat potential challengers before they threaten the United States." The plan "maximizes threat awareness and seizes the initiative from those who would harm us."

But there are concerns, warns Parry, over how the Pentagon judges "threats" and who falls under the category of "those who would harm us." A Pentagon official said the Counterintelligence Field Activity's TALON program has amassed files on antiwar protesters.

In the view of some civil libertarians, a form of martial law already exists in the U.S. and has been in place since shortly after the September 11 attacks when Bush issued Military Order Number One, which empowered him to detain any noncitizen as an international terrorist or enemy combatant. Today that order extends to U.S. citizens as well.

Farrell ends her article with the conclusion that while much speculation has been generated by KBR's contract to build huge detention centers within the U.S., "The truth is, we won't know the real purpose of these centers unless 'contingency plans are needed.' And by then, it will be too late."

UPDATE BY PETER DALE SCOTT
The contract of the Halliburton subsidiary KBR to build immigrant detention facilities is part of a longer-term Homeland Security plan titled ENDGAME, which sets as its goal the removal of "all removable aliens" and "potential terrorists." In the 1980s Richard Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld discussed similar emergency detention powers as part of a super-secret program of planning for what was euphemistically called "Continuity of Government" (COG) in the event of a nuclear disaster. At the time, Cheney was a Wyoming congressman, while Rumsfeld, who had been defense secretary under President Ford, was a businessman and CEO of the drug company G.D. Searle.

These men planned for suspension of the Constitution, not just after nuclear attack, but for any "national security emergency," which they defined in Executive Order 12656 of 1988 as: "Any occurrence, including natural disaster, military attack, technological or other emergency, that seriously degrades or seriously threatens the national security of the United States." Clearly September 11 would meet this definition, and did, for COG was instituted on that day. As the Washington Post later explained, the order "dispatched a shadow government of about 100 senior civilian managers to live and work secretly outside Washington, activating for the first time long-standing plans."

What these managers in this shadow government worked on has never been reported. But it is significant that the group that prepared ENDGAME was, as the Homeland Security document puts it, "chartered in September 2001." For ENDGAME's goal of a capacious detention capability is remarkably similar to Oliver North's controversial Rex-84 "readiness exercise" for COG in 1984. This called for the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to round up and detain 400,000 imaginary "refugees," in the context of "uncontrolled population movements" over the Mexican border into the United States.

UPDATE BY MAUREEN FARRELL
When the story about Kellogg, Brown and Root's contract for emergency detention centers broke, immigration was not the hot button issue it is today. Given this, the language in Halliburton's press release, stating that the centers would be built in the event of an "emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S.," raised eyebrows, especially among those familiar with Rex-84 and other Reagan-era initiatives. FEMA's former plans 'for the detention of at least 21 million American Negroes in assembly centers or relocation camps' added to the distrust, and the second stated reason for the KBR contract, "to support the rapid development of new programs," sent imaginations reeling.

While few in the mainstream media made the connection between KBR's contract and previous programs, Fox News eventually addressed this issue, pooh-poohing concerns as the province of "conspiracy theories" and "unfounded" fears. My article attempted to sift through the speculation, focusing on verifiable information found in declassified and leaked documents which proved that, in addition to drawing up contingency plans for martial law, the government has conducted military readiness exercises designed to round up and detain both illegal aliens and U.S. citizens.
How concerned should Americans be? Recent reports are conflicting and confusing:

In May, 2006, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) began "Operation Return to Sender," which involved catching illegal immigrants and deporting them. In June, however, President Bush vowed that there would soon be "new infrastructures" including detention centers designed to put an end to such "catch and release" practices.
Though Bush said he was "working with Congress to increase the number of detention facilities along our borders," Rep. Bennie Thompson, ranking member of the House Homeland Security Committee, said he first learned about the KBR contract through newspaper reports.
Fox News recently quoted Pepperdine University professor Doug Kmiec, who deemed detention camp concerns "more paranoia than reality" and added that KBR's contract is most likely "something related to (Hurricane) Katrina" or "a bird flu outbreak that could spur a mass quarantine of Americans." The president's stated desire for the U.S. military to take a more active role during natural disasters and to enforce quarantines in the event of a bird flu outbreak, however, have been roundly denounced.
Concern over an all-powerful federal government is not paranoia, but active citizenship. As Thomas Jefferson explained, "even under the best forms of government, those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." From John Adams's Alien and Sedition Acts to FDR's internment of Japanese Americans, the land of the free has held many contradictions and ironies. Interestingly enough, Halliburton was at the center of another historical controversy, when Lyndon Johnson's ties to a little-known company named Kellogg, Brown and Root caused a congressional commotion—particularly after the Halliburton subsidiary won enough wartime contracts to become one of the first protested symbols of the military-industrial complex. Back then they were known as the "Vietnam builders." The question, of course, is what they'll be known as next.


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 07:42 PM

even though that link is messed up, I'd advise not trying to sort it out...Opera gave me a VERY strange warning I'd never seen before ...that the name does not match the certificate, and that someone might "be trying to eavesdrop on you".


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 05:45 PM

This pretty well proves the point. 444 Days


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: heric
Date: 01 Jan 07 - 01:18 PM

(I'm glad you liked that LH. It doesn't seem to get old for me, either. It wasn't meant for this thread more or less than any other, of course. Inspired by your dog bone comment, I couldn't resist.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 10:26 PM

Way to go. But look at heric's link! (the one with the dog) It's great.


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 04:23 PM

Oh, I'll be around, Little Hawk. It isn't a matter os strength of character. It's just that I occasionally have to remind myself that arguing with the dead is pretty much a waste of time.

I have some heavy-duty, industrial-strength music projects on the agenda, and I'm determined to finish my book in 2007, so I have to reapply my schnozzola to the grindstone.

But I'll be looking in from time to time to see if any progress is being made. Kinda like observing plate techtonics.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 03:51 PM

Saw the dog fighting with his own foot, heric! LOL! It does look like the Mudcat scene allright.

What makes you think I'm in any trouble, Guest? Like is very quiet here, and I don't need that site to play with cos I'm busy with other stuff right now. You read it for me instead, and PM me later with all the great details.

The question is, will Don find the strength of character to avoid getting dragged back in here one more time? We'll see.


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 01:13 PM

This is your brain

This is your brain on Mudcat


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 12:51 PM

http://www.unabombers.com/z03PrideMichelle.htm

Play with this a Little while Hawk - it will help keep you out of trouble.


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 02:30 PM

Yea, verily!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 02:05 PM

Heh! What is wrong with you, Don, is exactly the same thing that's wrong with all of us who compulsively post here. Ever seen how reluctant a dog is to let go of a dry, worthless old bone? Specially when someone else is tugging on the other end of it?

None of us are any different.

Your New Year's Resolution is a good one, and I hope you manage to hold to it. Think of the time you'll save. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 01:31 PM

The camps were built, Peace. Them and more. Camps everywhere. I suggest you go to the site below and watch the short video "Putting 9-11 in Historical Context." About 17 minutes in they show a typical concentration camp in the U.S.

http://www.911truthbristol.com/videos/films.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 01:28 PM

Ya hey, Don


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 01:15 PM

Out of 40,000 peaceful demonstrators, there were a couple hundred knuckle-draggers who were there for the purpose of committing mayhem, or watching others commit mayhem and cheer them on. Many of those spectators were teenagers (although some were participating in the window-smashing). The newspaper reports said that a large percentage of the 500-odd who were arrested were teenagers, and they were not charged with anything, but their parents had to come and pick them up.

So—knuckle-draggers and teenagers. I stand by that.

For your enlightenment and edification, an excerpt from an article on the psychology of conspiracy theories:
The term "conspiracy theory" is used by mainstream scholars and in popular culture to identify a type of folklore similar to an urban legend, especially an explanatory narrative which is constructed with methodological flaws. It involves a particular narrative form of scapegoating that frames demonized enemies as part of a vast, insidious plot against the common good, while it valorizes the scapegoater as a hero for sounding the alarm.[

Psychologists believe that the search for meaningfulness features largely in conspiracism and the development of conspiracy theories. That desire alone may be powerful enough to lead to the initial formulation of the idea. Once cognized, confirmation bias and avoidance of cognitive dissonance may reinforce the belief. In a context where a conspiracy theory has become popular within a social group, communal reinforcement may equally play a part.

Evolutionary psychology may also play a significant role. Paranoid tendencies are associated with an animal's ability to recognize danger. Higher animals attempt to construct mental models of the thought processes of both rivals and predators in order to read their hidden intentions and to predict their future behavior. Such an ability is extremely valuable in sensing and avoiding danger in an animal community. If this danger-sensing ability should begin making false predictions, or be triggered by benign evidence, or otherwise become pathological, the result is paranoid delusions.
I have music to make, a concert to prepare for, a possible series of CDs to program, and a book to finish writing, and here I am wasting a great deal of my valuable time and effort on the mental vapors of someone I don't even know, who doesn't care to identify himself, and is spouting paranoid blather. What the hell is the matter with me?

New Years' Resolution:   Stop wasting time arguing with nameless, knuckle-dragging trolls.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: number 6
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 10:01 AM

What happened Peace was that John Ashcroft became more involved in the lucrative business of consulting ... with his newly formed Ashcroft Group .... making lotsa $$$ in developing espionage computing applications is more enticing than constructing detention camps ... for the time being at least.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Peace
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 02:19 AM

I believe that Ashcroft was proposing 'detention camps' in 2002. Anyone know what all happened with that?


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