Ancient Irish fiddle? 2-3 stringed?

Subject: Ancient Irish fiddle? 2-3 stringed?
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Mar 99 - 12:15 AM

SORRY! I THOUGHT I'D CHANGED THE TITLE BEFORE I POSTED THE OTHER ONE. PLEASE RESPOND TO THIS ONE AND WE'LL LET THE OTHER DIE A QUIET DEATH! THANKS!

Bear with me folks, please. My training was all in classical violin, with my ear learning old dance tunes and cowboy songs from my dad with a bit o' the Irish thrown in.

My husband keeps telling me about something he saw 20-30 yrs. ago and I've not heard of it, so I told him I'd post a question here and I KNEW you all would settle it for us!

Apparently there was a group on Boston tv who had what he says was an "Irish fiddle" which was not of the usual shape and thinks it had two or three strings to it, with different tuning than the four string I'm used to. If he remembers correctly, the person playing held it upright on their knee and played with an arched bow. Obviously something from "pre-Strad" times, eh?

Anyone have info? Thanks!

katlaughing

Subject: RE: Ancient Irish fiddle? 2-3 stringed?
From: j0_77
Date: 18 Mar 99 - 02:05 AM

yup

Subject: RE: Ancient Irish fiddle? 2-3 stringed?
From: Bert
Date: 18 Mar 99 - 12:11 PM

A saw a stick fiddle when I was in Iran. The body was a one gallon Castrol oil can. The guy played it squatting on the floor with the lower end of the stick between his toes. It had one string so I guess it didn't matter HOW you tuned it.

Subject: RE: Ancient Irish fiddle? 2-3 stringed?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 18 Mar 99 - 12:25 PM

Not to be confused with the one-string- or phono-fiddle? This is a bit on the rare side these days, but it had a plain or sometimes fretted fingerboard, a single string, a soundbox like that on an acoustic gramophone, a horn; and little else^*. You play it as described: vertical, on your knee or leg. I've seen a Web page with pictures, but I forget where. I'm told there was a four-string "violin" version - like a kind of Dobro violin, almost - designed for the old mechanical recording phonographs, to concentrate all the sound into the recording horn.

Steve

^*But it didn't bend in the middle, whatever Robert Service might have thought ...

Subject: RE: Ancient Irish fiddle? 2-3 stringed?
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Mar 99 - 12:30 PM

Ah, but Steve, Robt. would've tried melting it over the fire or sawed it in two to make it bend, eh? He's one of my very favourite. I had my daughter's middle school class rolling in the aisles with that one a few years back.

Thanks for the info. I was looking for serious, informative answers (my marriage could hinge on those very answers!) but luv ya' all, all the same***BIG GRIN***.

katlaughing

Subject: RE: Ancient Irish fiddle? 2-3 stringed?
From: j0_77
Date: 18 Mar 99 - 01:09 PM

Derek Bell (Belsfast Harp Player with the Cheiftans - he has a web page) He is an authority on this kind of stuff.

Subject: RE: Ancient Irish fiddle? 2-3 stringed?
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 18 Mar 99 - 06:36 PM

Steve - I have two phonofiddles sitting here in this room with me. No one has ever managed to get anything remotely connected with music to come forth from them. And in Exeter we knew a man with a four string version, it had the big horn for the listeners and a little one pointing towards the player's ear. The larger horn, and the horn on the one string model were indeed intended to concentrate the sound - the string runs over a bridge which vibrates a mica membrane which in turn is amplified by the horn. Kat, these were proper instruments (honest!), the main manufacturer was the Strohviol company, I have the 'home' and 'concert' models. The concert model has what appear to be frets, but they're actually just markers. We also made a bass version out of one of those big horns you see on top of loud speaker vans, it was er, interesting and a little easier on the ear than the small squeaky ones. Used in a novelty trio - concert model, bass model and musical saw. The saw sounded very melodic in comparison. Paul Tortelier once walked into our folk club in Exeter after a concert and laughed his socks off. V embarrassing; perhaps he could have done better?! Sorry to rabbit on but I get all excited when I see phonofiddles mentioned - it serves to prove they're not a figment of my demented imagination, at least I think not. Could be the Thomas Hardy's Ale I found in the supermarche today. 12 per cent, it's a bit strong so scuse any mistooks. I'd invite you to come & make sweet music with me Steve but we don't stand much chance with phonofiddles...
Jo

Subject: RE: Ancient Irish fiddle? 2-3 stringed?
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Mar 99 - 07:07 PM

Whew! My marriage might last another 19 after all! I really thought he'd gone round the bend! Thanks Jo, Steve, Bert, and Jo77!

I'm still not sure this is what he saw, though. He doesn't remember THAT strange of a shape and horns attached AND, more importantly, unless they were miracle workers, whatever this "Irish fiddle" was ,it sounded good!

I will look at the website mentioned tonight. Thanks, again,

kat

Subject: RE: Ancient Irish fiddle? 2-3 stringed?
From: Jon W.
Date: 18 Mar 99 - 07:30 PM

I think what Bert saw was a little closer. It sounds like a spike fiddle to me. This page from the Lark in the Morning catalog has a few examples of spike fiddles. I didn't speak up sooner because I was hoping someone else would come up with an Irish version. These are all from the Middle East.

Subject: RE: Ancient Irish fiddle? 2-3 stringed?
From:
Date: 18 Mar 99 - 09:53 PM

Three strings, an arched bow, and played on the knee? Could it have been a medieval rebec? Check out the Harvard Concise Dictionary of Music under Violin Family.

Another possibility is the Irish Box Fiddle, as described in Musical Instruments of the World (Bantam Books 1978). The diagram has four strings, but the homemade quality is stressed, including the description of the orange box body (shades of Bo Diddley).

I know of similar confusion with the instrument known both as the Cittern and/or English Guitar. Nothing like the Playford Cittern, and not used to my knowledge in English music. I'd prefer to call it a five course octave mandolin, or even a flat-backed bazouki, but I'd only be adding to the coufnsion.

Subject: RE: Ancient Irish fiddle? 2-3 stringed?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 19 Mar 99 - 03:37 AM

katlaughing, are we talking about the same Robert Service poem? The one I have in mind is definitely unsuitable for schoolchildren! (It's been attributed to RS, but more usually to Anon, but it was definitely written by a poet of some sort.) What do you know that bends in the middle like a one-string fiddle then?

Jo, I'd love to get my hands on your phonofiddles! ... Sorry, just had to go and lie down for a few minutes there ...

Back in, oh, about 1965 or 6, I passed a junk shop in Walsall (it was next to Di Cicco's, the ice-cream people, if anyone's old enough to remember). In the window they had two or three phonofiddles, all slightly different from each other, I seem to recall. I'd forgotten all about it till this came up. They're high up on a long list of things I've been kicking myself for not buying.

Steve