Origins: You sporting man of Chester. Who was Jos

Subject: Who was Joseph Baker
From: Ljung
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 01:41 AM

Good Morning
Can anybody tell me something about this sporting man.

Subject: RE: Origins: You sporting man of Chester. Who was Jos
From: breezy
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 04:43 AM

He was a very good athlete, a superstar a celeb by todays stamdards.

Lived oop north, Lancs, Cheshire way.

Subject: RE: Origins: You sporting man of Chester. Who was Jos
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 04:52 AM

I don't know whether Joseph Baker ever existed, but the song was written by Peter Coe in the 1970s. The greatest ever 19th century athlete was, of course, Wilson of the Wizard...........

Subject: RE: Origins: You sporting man of Chester. Who was Jos
From: breezy
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 04:56 AM

Pete's Coe is responsinle for, completely re-writing an old broadside about a Cheshire long-distance runner, Joseph Baker. Many people thought they were traditional songs and Joseph Baker is even listed in one songbook as a traditional Irish ballad!


Well done Terry, Pete Coe will be appearing at the Herga Club Mon 15th jan 2007

Happy New Year

Subject: RE: Origins: You sporting man of Chester. Who was Jos
From: GUEST,Noreen
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 05:01 AM

JOSEPH BAKER - Long-distance runner in Cheshire in 1890's achieved one mile in 5 mins - Pete Coe re-wrote broadside

from http://www.folktrax.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/menus/search%20for%20titles_joi_jz.htm

Subject: RE: Origins: You sporting man of Chester. Who was Jos
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 05:13 AM

The ORIGINAL broadside (published 1787)is called "The Navigator's New Victory" and tells the story of a man who came from Cheshire near Delamere Forest and worked as a navvy on the canal at Ellesmere Port. He was also famous as a runner and would run on the famous Roodee race course at Chester against other long distance runners for money - often as much as 20 guineas

Subject: RE: Origins: You sporting man of Chester. Who was
From: Paul Burke
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 05:42 AM

Slight anachronism- Ellesmere Port wasn't built until the 1790s, indeed the canal was only authorised in 1791. The nearest canals in 1787 would have been the Bridgwater at Runcorn, the Trent and Mersey at Preston Brook, and the old Chester canal (which was actually abandoned in 1787, though of course later revived as part of what is now the Shropshire Union system).

Subject: RE: Origins: You sporting man of Chester. Who was Jos
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 06:06 AM

It's not really an "anachronism" Paul - just a "truncation" of events.

"1772 An act of Parliament was passed allowing a canal to be built from the River Dee in Chester to the new Trent & Mersey Canal at Middlewich, a branch line into Nantwich was also to be built.

Work continued over the next few years but engineering troubles and lack of finances caused many problems for the company. Work had to be stopped before the canal got anywhere near to Middlewich though the branch line to Nantwich was completed and connected to the finished portion of the main line. Arguments with the River Dee Company over delays in building a river lock in Chester cost the company dearly and any intended competition with the Trent & Mersey Canal was lost. (It should be noted that the Trent & Mersey Canal Company were never keen on the link themselves because they wanted to stay totally independent of any other canals or river navigations"

It is quite likely that as a "local" Baker would have been employed in this canal work and afterwards, as an experienced "navvy" on the later work which resulted in the "birth" of Ellesmere Port in 1795.

Subject: RE: Origins: You sporting man of Chester. Who was Jos
From: Bernard
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 06:53 AM

Pete makes no secret of the fact that the song is liberally laced with 'poetic licence'... it amuses him that people are always asking him, for example, why they can't find the gravestone in the churchyard!! They seem quite miffed when he says 'Erm... I made that bit up...'!

Subject: RE: Origins: You sporting man of Chester. Who was Jos
From: Leadfingers
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 07:30 AM

NEVER let the facts get in the way of a good story !