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BS: When Big Things Move...

Slag 30 Dec 06 - 04:25 AM
Georgiansilver 30 Dec 06 - 05:14 AM
MBSLynne 30 Dec 06 - 05:47 AM
Rapparee 30 Dec 06 - 07:50 AM
Amos 30 Dec 06 - 10:18 AM
katlaughing 30 Dec 06 - 11:20 AM
Bee-dubya-ell 30 Dec 06 - 11:52 AM
Big Al Whittle 30 Dec 06 - 12:35 PM
kendall 30 Dec 06 - 12:43 PM
kendall 31 Dec 06 - 12:40 PM
autolycus 31 Dec 06 - 12:47 PM
autolycus 02 Jan 07 - 12:25 PM
The Villan 02 Jan 07 - 01:49 PM
Paul from Hull 02 Jan 07 - 02:53 PM
Slag 02 Jan 07 - 04:30 PM
Georgiansilver 02 Jan 07 - 04:39 PM
autolycus 04 Jan 07 - 02:27 AM
autolycus 04 Jan 07 - 02:28 AM
Slag 04 Jan 07 - 02:42 AM
Amos 04 Jan 07 - 12:07 PM
Slag 04 Jan 07 - 05:30 PM
autolycus 05 Jan 07 - 03:27 AM

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Subject: BS: When Big Things Move...
From: Slag
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 04:25 AM

...little things die.

When we stroll down a side walk or a country lane little living organisms are dying under our feet. We hardly notice. Bugs are splattered over our windshields and hoods. We swat flies and set mousetraps (you all see where this is going?).

Mudcatters may pay a little closer attention to this carnage. Jains and Hindus may even take careful precautions to protect said life. But they can't protect the microscopic organisms that exist below our threshold of awareness. And some we actively root out before they "get" us. I'm thinking of disease vectors now.

Governments are big things. And when big things move, little things die. Compared to governments, individual human beings are the litle things and sometoimes we get underfoot or caught in the machinery of State. We make noise. We try to inform "Someone" about what may be happening to us but in the grand scheme of things, we count for little and are usually just run over. In a democracy we try to unite our voices to raise the level of protection and we do have some degree of success in that direction.

But like the useful little cells in our bodies, we are expendable---up to a point. I marvel how governments wrangle with each other...and people die. Sometimes they fight and then more people die. Even when doing beneficient works people die from various causes associated with the endeavor. How aware should a nation be of its members? How aware can it be? How aware can it afford to be?

Sometimes we, as a nation, become aware that a world neighbor, like Darfur in the Sudan has something really wrong with it. It's killing a LOT of people. What do we do as a concerned nation? As a righteous and noble nation? Remember, IF WE MOVE, little things, little people will die; some of our own and undoubtedly some of those who we seek to help. Did we pick the right side to help in Bosnia? in Mogadishu? Tokyo? Berlin? Iraq?

No matter what we do, some people will die as a direct cause of any acton or inaction we take or omit. You may want to comment on this. I don't know. It was just a little meditation I had when I reflected on the removal of a great source of death and needless killing be the expedient of the death of Saddam Hussein and the role our nation took in that process. Regardless of your political orientation, being the head-of-state is, or should be an awesome responsibility. Who really wants that and why? Governments are dangerous behemoths that crush little things to death whether that is their intention or not.


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Subject: RE: BS: When Big Things Move...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 05:14 AM

Unfortunately there is much truth in your words slag and the question once again arises..."Do we live in a true Democracy"?. We appoint a dictator of sorts when we appoint a Government and have to live with the result...however..I try to bear in mind words from the Bible as in 1 Timothy 2 v's 1-3.
Best wishes, Mike.


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Subject: RE: BS: When Big Things Move...
From: MBSLynne
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 05:47 AM

Democracy? Democracy is a lovely sounding theory. Like many other such things, it doesn't work in practice because it doesn't take into account the human element. Socialism, communism and lots of other systems sound admirable in their pure, theoretic form, but how many of them work that way when applied.

No, we don't live in a democracy. What we live in is beaurocracy at best, and at worst could probably be given a lot of much darker names

Love Lynne


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Subject: RE: BS: When Big Things Move...
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 07:50 AM

Actually, if you live in the UK you live in a Constitutional Monarchy. In the States you live in a Republic. Neither are "democracies."

The word "democracy" was used by FDR in the US because it had political connotations with the "Democratic" Party and "Republic" could be associated with "Republican." Personally, I've always favored something like "Tory" and "Whig" but they've lost favor here for some reason or other. Perhaps we should start calling our political parties "Them" and "Us" ("We" would be best, though).

By the way, John McCain's son Jim graduated as a Private from the Marine Corps Recruit Depot in San Diego, California on December 8. My nephew graduated December 1 -- he was REALLY REALLY glad he wasn't graduating a week later, for the spit 'n' polish for that group was getting out of hand, he said.

Do any other Congresspeople have children in the US military, does anyone know? This is a question of curiousity, not politics.


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Subject: RE: BS: When Big Things Move...
From: Amos
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 10:18 AM

An interesting essay, Slag.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: When Big Things Move...
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 11:20 AM

Rapaire, according to THIS ARTICLE only about 7 members out of 535 have children in the armed forces. It has steadily declined since 1969.


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Subject: RE: BS: When Big Things Move...
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 11:52 AM

Democracy: "The bludgeoning of the people, by the people, for the people."

Oscar Wilde


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Subject: RE: BS: When Big Things Move...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 12:35 PM

nothing to do with Errol Flynn then.....?


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Subject: RE: BS: When Big Things Move...
From: kendall
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 12:43 PM

I'm reminded of a remark by Canada's Prime Minister,Elliot Trudeau; "Living next to the USA is like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how benevolent it is, you still feel every twitch."


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Subject: RE: BS: When Big Things Move...
From: kendall
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 12:40 PM


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Subject: RE: BS: When Big Things Move...
From: autolycus
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 12:47 PM

Don't know multinational corporations are getting let off with an omission.





      Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: When Big Things Move...
From: autolycus
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 12:25 PM

Sorry, that should have read - Don't know why multinational corporations are being let off the hook by omission.






       Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: When Big Things Move...
From: The Villan
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 01:49 PM

Well I would imagine that if you are in love, then for the male person big things do move :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: When Big Things Move...
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 02:53 PM

Excellent analogy Slag.


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Subject: RE: BS: When Big Things Move...
From: Slag
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 04:30 PM

It has come up in other threads which harshly and easily criticize those who are entrusted with the functions of government that if we had only done things differently or elected the other guy, things would have been different. Well, yes and no. The truth of my statement remains, regardless of who is in power: When big things move, little things die. If the President were Gore, Bush or Zippy Pinhead (Cartoon character in the SF Chronicle) people will get hurt. People will die no matter what course our governemnt takes. It can't be avoided.

I'm saying that we all, my humble self included, need to be a little more temperate when taking our government and leaders to task. And I will always worry about the sanity of anyone who WANTS the job. There are some folks who genuinely want to help humanity, who are statesmen and really have the country's best interests at heart. I was unimpressed with Mr. Ford's coming to the Office of the Presidency as a means to burying the Nixon situation but I cannot fault the man for his statesmanship once he arrived at that high office. I was unimpressed and thuroughly disappointed with Mr. Carter's presidency but I really believe that his heart was in the right place. There are other who impress me as greedy and grasping. They are power seekers and while their actual performance in office may be adequate I cannot trust them. And individually they would use the office to enhance their own positions.


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Subject: RE: BS: When Big Things Move...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 04:39 PM

So you want big things to move Villan?
Big things have moved from Britneys body Les..take a look mate.


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Subject: RE: BS: When Big Things Move...
From: autolycus
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 02:27 AM

Still puzzled why it's thought that the problem is just the government.

   We are all involved in the destruction of little (and not such little) things when we buy such that some little bit of the world gets destroyed to satisfy our "needs".






       Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: When Big Things Move...
From: autolycus
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 02:28 AM

But then I'm not a scientist so what do I know.






       Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: When Big Things Move...
From: Slag
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 02:42 AM

It's NOT just the Gumment! It's just that Gumments are the biggest things around. Yup, Corporations, Elephants and Mac Trucks. It's a general observation, not a definitive list.


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Subject: RE: BS: When Big Things Move...
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 12:07 PM

Slag:

There are distinctions that must be made. It is not just size that causes things to die when big things move.

An individual placed in command of a big thing, by necessity, is heir to responsibility for how he moves it.

Humans have a lot of tolerance for stress and unexpected change -- it's why they have survived so well -- but that does not mean that right action is to recklessly impose extreme changes and violent stress on others.

War, and armies, are an excellent example. The reason this government is takent ot ask for its use of large, blunt objects like the US Army is not that it was moved, but that it was sent into a killing war intentionally, not because there was no other choice but because it was preferred by someone with an appetite for throwing large amounts of weight around.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: When Big Things Move...
From: Slag
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 05:30 PM

No argument from me there. Re-read my initial post. Sometimes we swat a fly intentionally or even determine to take out other big things as a matter of perceived necessity. Responsibilty for actions is never negated and potential consequences should always be considered. Failure to do so may lead other larger things to decide to take YOU out! Ouch! As you move beyond the analogy and into the real world, politics, motives etc. come into play. The analogy was intended to take a big step out of the frame of personal and vested involvement in the picture and to make note of the fact that no matter who may be calling the shots, it is ALWAYS a lose, lose situation for some. No matter the course, some will be hurt, maimed or killed. It is all a question of perspective.


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Subject: RE: BS: When Big Things Move...
From: autolycus
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 03:27 AM

Some multinationals, like General Motors and British Petroleum (there are many others) are bigger than many governments.

   NALOPKT.






       Ivor


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