BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Penny S.
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 03:27 PM

In ascending order

Quiet speech radio on a sleep program played through a pillow speaker

Malty milky drinks

Warm bread and milk

Herbal tea made from sage, marjoram, angelica and meadowsweet



Not all at the same time

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 03:14 PM

I sleep well. Frankly I prefer to wake up at least once in the night just so I can see how the night is going. *G* I haven't used an alarm clock in years; when it is essential that I wake up at a given time I always do. It is as if a timer is running.

Are you familiar with the 'Magic Eye' phenomenon? It's a photographic manipulation that shows one a pop up picture that one doesn't see until one's eyes have kind of *shifted*. That is how I feel about what happens when I prepare for sleep. Something in my brain shifts.

There are times when I would like to lie awake longer, just to think something out or to dwell on a pleasant event. But no. Off into the wild blue yonder I go...

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Little Brother
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 09:39 AM

Watch golf on the TV.

LB

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 07:23 AM

Watch cricket. That does it for me.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 11:14 PM

play this till you nod off !!


zzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzz

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 03:59 PM

For everyone who posted to this and other insomnia thread, I thought this sounds interesting. I intend to get the CD and see how it can help. Here ya go: CLick Here. There is a sound sample available in that page.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 03:38 PM

Wolfgang's suggestion:(thanks...I will read more)

"Mirtazapine"

"Mirtazapine is marketed under the tradenames Remeron® in the U.S., Canada, Finland and Switzerland, Avanza® and Axit® in Australia, Zispin® in the UK & Ireland, Norset® in France, Remergon® in Belgium, Remergil® in Germany, Mirtabene® in Austria, Mirtaz® in India and Srilanka, Rexer® in Spain and Promy (thanksrtil in Chile."

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 03:28 PM

Count Backwards from 100 ??

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 02:09 PM

Wolfgang, that's interesting, but I see a lot on google about some side effects that could be worrisome.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 01:23 PM

When I can't sleep is is usually due to worry. I get a circular thought pattern going and I have to break it by forcing myslf to think of pleasant things. Things I like instead of things I don't like.

Also I relax by going completely limp, stretching out as far as possible and exhaling deeply. Like a balloon deflating.

Thirdly, a radio or TV with voices seems to distract my mind just enough to blank out thoughts. The sound from something like a fan helps some. I presume one of those sound generators that produce surf noises etc. would help too.

My wife says I coud go to sleep in a bus station. I frequently catch naps sitting on a bench in the mall while she shops.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: GUEST,ib48
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 11:49 AM

i was going to say football then realised they are cack at everything,okay

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Scrump
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 09:18 AM

watch england playing,well,anything

It's easier to watch them playing badly than playing well :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: GUEST,ib48
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 09:10 AM

watch england playing,well,anything,Perfect cure for insomnia

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 09:04 AM

Here's my advice. It's a pill (which is not a sleeping pill) and it sometimes can do wonders in apnea cases.

The German name is Remergil (most likely not the American name) and the ingredient that is the active agent in it is Mirtazapin (allow for slighly different spelling in English).

It is a weak anti-depressive pill and it has an interesting side effect. It suppresses effectively some symptoms (like breath stops etc) of apnea. That's not yet well known. And it has a rare dose-effect relation. The apnea suppressing side effect is strong with a small dosis. The smallest pill (15 mg) should suffice.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 11:51 AM

Lettuce pray for Pat :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 11:37 AM

"variable whiskey", of course!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Partridge
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 11:21 AM

Got some of that lime blossom tea I mentioned earlier in the thread. I'll let you know if it works. I was also told by the herbalist(where I got the lime blossom tea) that a lettuce sandwich helps you drop off. guess what I'm having for supper

cheers

pat

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 05:55 AM

I'm beginning to think that SAD may be part of my troubles.. it's been particularly gloomy and dim here for the last few weeks, only a couple of sunny mornings where I was busy indoors and couldn't get out into it. This week I'm definately feeling down and unwell, and not sleeping properly. Last night I was sewing under a daylight bulb and had a pretty good night's sleep. I still feel like crap, but only moderately so today. I think today will be spent looking for a better lamp.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Bagpuss
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 05:05 AM

To the guest to recommended St John's Wort, a caution - don't use it if you are on any other medication, even antibiotics or the contraceptive pill, as SJW interferes with the liver function, I think making it clear drugs more quickly and therefore making the standard dose less effective.

I would second the person who mentioned the sunrise alarm clocks if you have trouble with hypersomnia in the winter - before I had kids to wake me up at random intervals I found it invaluable in the winter (I have SAD).

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 12:22 AM

Ivor
>>Drink more earlier in the day, less as the day goes on,drink in sips rather than like downing a pint to give the body time to digest<<

Never tried it like that. Not sure if the missus will like me drinking the alcohol in the morning :-)

Well tonight it was 2 am before I hit the sack, as my duaghter had a particularly bad night. Just woke up after 3 hours sleep. Not feeling too bad. I will hit the sack again at 6 and up at 7:30.

Les

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 11:20 PM

Gee, Teribus--posts by me or Bobert put you to sleep? That makes you truly a medical marvel--since despite being asleep you virtually always respond, in great, if poorly reasoned detail, to our posts. With that skill, perhaps you should seek circus employment.

But at any rate, that explains the lack of logic in your postings--you're always asleep while writing them. It's certainly a relief to know that-- that it's not just you're incapable of making sense.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 08:16 AM

are you a sheep fan?

d8^)

circadian rhythms may still be indicated - I heard of cases where the natural rhythm was out of phase with the mid-day peak and slowly rotating the sleep time helped (ie later each day) - but how you do that and work around others' routines I have no idea - these were hospital cases and cures.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 07:57 PM

yes, to that last bit, McGrath. :-) When I have a three year old come bounding in at 730a I'd like to be firing on all six, or is it eight? cylinders.**bg** Of course, once in a great while, he crawls in with me and we watch PBS kids' shows for an hour, but usually we have a class or something to go to. Grandma needs her sleep!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 06:50 PM

Why worry about it? If I'm awake, I'm awake, if I'm drowsing off, I'm drowing off, if I'm asleep, I'm asleep. Nothing wrong with any of those states. I suppose the worry is that think we we need the sleep and that if we don't go to sleep it'll screw us up.

I think there are situatins like that, where people just can't go to sleep at all - but dropping off and waking up a few times in the night is a pretty normal thing to do, especialy as we grow a bit older. I think our bodies can generally take care of that stuff, and that we get as much sleep as we need.

Of course it helps when we can lie in in the morning and don't have to leap out of bed and belt off to work...

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: autolycus
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 06:19 PM

Hi Villan

Drink more earlier in the day, less as the day goes on,drink in sips rather than like downing a pint to give the body time to digest, and always go to the .... before bedding.





      ivor

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 05:32 PM

"LtS, has Manitas ever been checked for sleep apnea? Sounds as though he should...the snoring is a sign." ~ I have suggested it but he doesn't believe me when I tell him how badly he snores... I suspect an investigation could identify a lot of his problems, but it would mean several lifestyle changes that he's just not prepared or scared enough to do yet.

"I hear ya about separate beds. I would but we've no room for it" ~ ya mean ya don't have a couch he can sleep on... a floor he can get to know better??! :-]

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Rasener
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 03:59 PM

LOL <>

Only makes me want to go to the toilet more in the night, and then can't get back to sleep :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 03:56 PM

Thanks, ivor. Since water is the only thing I drink, I get at least a gallon a day, if not 1.5 gallons per day. I DO notice it if I don't get that much, though!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: autolycus
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 03:37 PM

Just some confirmation.

A ladt at work heard me banging on about water and has benefitted from upping her intake.

I asked her today if that had alspo improved her sleep and she said 'definitely', and that she wakes up fresh, unlike in the past.





       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 09:38 AM

Thanks, Mr. Red. In sunny Colorado where we get over 300 days of sunshine every year, yes, I do get lots of midday sun.:-)

I've seen those clocks, but I don't think it would be much good here. we have a fairly stable amount of light and dark in our bedroom.

LtS, has Manitas ever been checked for sleep apnea? Sounds as though he should...the snoring is a sign. I hear ya about separate beds. I would but we've no room for it!:-)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 07:41 AM

I used to use a Outside-In light (the last one was American in origin) - it has an alarm mode that will bring the light up slowly - and more pertinently it can be set to dim the light over a period. It allows you to wake properly and begin to set a rhythm to the whole day.

May be worth a thought.

Also - do you get a really strong shot of light mid-day? daylight usually does it but not if overcast or muggy. A lot of insomnia is traceable to seratonin levels and the same organisations that sell the alarm clocks sell light boxes to replace missing daylight in the winter.
Upset circadian rhythms often cause poor sleep. The strong light resets the body clock and seratonin production. Jet lag is cited as similarly affecting seratonin, though taking it never seemed to improve jet lag.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 05:52 AM

How do you get to sleep & stay that way? Personally, I find a bed that doesn't have Manitas in it! He's a snorer with a high core temp and restless leg syndrome (although he'd never admit it or maybe doesn't even realise it!). He gets very hot when he's asleep so pushes the covers off onto me. I end up with a double duvet, being kicked in the leg and kept awake by his snoring. After intake of alcohol the snoring increases in both volume and intensity.

Sometimes a few nights in a bed that doesn't have a partner in it can do the trick, restoring a natural sleep pattern which stays with you when you move the partner back in. I know that whenever one or other of us has been away or we have twin beds in a hotel, I get a better quality sleep and it stays that way for a month or so after we get home.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Partridge
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 03:17 AM

The CD was did not make me sleep. I did feel relaxed I think, but I still took ages to drop off. Aw well, back to the drawing board. I have heard that lime blossom tea before bed helps. Just have to work out where to get it from!

pat x

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 06:12 PM

er I think not. That would only make it worse :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Podger
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 05:18 PM

Sing to her, Villan.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 02:22 PM

I was also recommended one of those Motion Aquarium Lights, like THIS The Mudcatter who recommended it said it put her to sleep in a heartbeat!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 02:18 PM

Read the instructions carefully. There are some medical warnings. I assume they are not windups.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Partridge
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 02:15 PM

I got a free relaxation CD in the paper yesterday. Its done by Paul McKenna, the hypnotist. I'll let you know if it works!

Pat x

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: autolycus
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 11:59 AM

A friend told me this afternoon that dehydration can lead to sleeplessness for some, and drinking more water has led to better sleep for some.






      Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 10:56 AM

Thanks, van, don't think anyone mentioned that specifically. I like cookies.:-) With low blood sugar, though, if I eat too many carbs without some kind of protein, too, I usually feel really hungry shortly after.

Waiting to see what the blood work says. Thanks, everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: GUEST,van lingle
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 06:24 AM

kat, I didn't read through this whole thread and someone may have mentioned this earlier but when I was going through some sleep problems I read somewhere that a small carbohydrate-laden snack like a cookie eaten about a half-hour before you retire will prevent you from waking up in the middle of the night. Works for me. vl

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 11:18 PM

St. John's Wort can be quite powerful and is contraindicated with some of the meds I am on. Thanks, though. I used to gather it on St. John's day and make a tincture of it in olive oil. It works really well on bruises and turns a beautiful ruby red as it *cures* in a jar in teh sun.

Scoville, that's what I am thinking and what my doc said. I will definitely give it a chance. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 10:09 PM

Try St. John's Wort: 2 tablets of 300 mg concentrate Standardized Herbal Extract an hour or so before bedtime. This Mood Enhancer herb is good for minor depression (the "blues" type mood).

It may take a week or so to work so give it at least that much time. I would never take more than 3 tablets per day and never more than one in the morning followed by 2 before bedtime. If the herb works for you, drowsiness and yawning will occur if you take them during the day when you need to be alert for work or driving.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: GUEST,Scoville
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 09:29 PM

Katlaughing--but it might be worth it if even using it temporarily helps improve your "habit" of sleeping and set up a routine, so you eventually can sleep without it. My mother tried it for awhile and it helped her.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 09:19 PM

Reading any of Boberts's or Ron Davies posts normally does it for me.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 08:52 PM

Becca: maybe there is hidden caffeine you're not aware of? Some chocolate has it, some doesn't. Some orange sodas are caffeine free, some aren't. Kahlua is stuffed with caffeine. Hot peppers or cayenne can keep you awake like caffeine can. Green tea has more than you think. etc.   So you might want to look back over any subtle changes in what you've been taking in?

Bill D: Tylenol is not addictive of course, but you really don't want to take it on a regular basis, it has quite a toxic effect if taken too frequently. Keep it occasional.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 10:03 AM

More great suggestions, folks.

Tried the next stronger dosage of Lunesta last night and actually slept! from about 1230a-545a!!! Yes! I don't like having to use a drug, but anything is better than what it has been lately. It's expensive, though! $60 deductible and they are four bucks per tablet!

As I get more rest, I will be trying some of the above. Also, the acu and massage therapist will help and we'll see what the bloodwork reveals, if anything.

Thanks, again!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: *daylia*
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 09:25 AM

I like that, Mr Red. Here's some "replacement thoughts" (affirmations) that work well for me. When I have trouble falling asleep its usually because I'm worried or overly stressed. So I just pick (or create) one and repeat it over and over to myself. This silences the stressful thoughts and creates a feeling of calm and comfort instead, which I enjoy until the (eventually very boring!) repetition drives me straight to lah-lah land ...

"I now give my mind a joyful vacation."   

"I now release the events of the day and drop off into a deep peaceful sleep. I will wake up in the morning refreshed and revitalized and looking forward to another wonderful day!"

"I love life, and tomorrow always looks after itself. All is well!"

(affirmations paraphrased from Louise Hay's "You Can Heal Your Life")

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 06:23 AM

read the New Scientist in bed.

but staying asleep - maybe I have a clear conscience - only joking.

Apart from the trips to the loo, I sleep well enough unless I have problems at work or threats to continued work. Or women problems.

Thinking nice thoughts does work but it is not just a case of saying it - it has to be worked at. Try mental conundrums, arithmatic, learning song lyrics, what you would do with all that lottery money should you ever be so ........

basically crowd-out the thoughts that keep you awake and replace them with ones that will send you to ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: autolycus
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 05:54 AM

Plenty of exercise and eating lightly in the evening do a lot for me.

   if i can't get to sleep, i get myself off by doing a complicated multiplication (3-digi number by 3-digit is enough for me) in my head, and keep restarting if I get lost. Usually asleep before the answer.

   Another trick is to try staying awake, and wake myself if I notice I'm drifting - till I've gone. Sort of self-reverse psychology.


   One fresh suggestion, see a therapist. I believe some people may be sleepless because there are things baging around the ol' unconscious that dealing with. Tho' I did think the Napoleon idea was brilliant.


   What I do also these days is put on a tape of a comedy show I've heard a thousand times. Lightly entertaining with the right level of boredom built in.


   God luck,Kat





    Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Rasener
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 03:35 AM

Thanks very much Freda

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: freda underhill
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 03:07 AM

Les

I don't know how a hypnotic Cd would go for a child, but I'll pm you the website details and you can have a look and see if there's anything suitable. When my children were young I made a tape of myself telling stories to them - they used to listen to that when they went to sleep. My grandaughter listens to a number of music CDs including one called Dream Children by the Adelaide Symphony Orchestra which is very soothing and relaxing. I'll send you the info about that as well!

good luck

freda

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Rasener
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 02:39 AM

Guest
My duaghter is only 11 and your 2 suggestions wouldn't be appropriate at the moment. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 02:27 AM

There are only two things that have ever worked for me: (1) a small amount of alcohol and (2) a warm body (human, opposite gender) next to mine in bed. I much prefer #2.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Rasener
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 02:20 AM

Freda
What is the CD freda?

This thread is spooky.

For the last 2 weeks our Autistic daughter has suddenly got a phobia about getting to sleep at night. Its really bad and has cost the family their sleep on quite a few nights. At this moment we can only relate to the excitement of Christmas, but it is more likely to be something she has seen on telly.However, we haven't manged to get a reason from her about why she is suddenly having this problem.

The last 3 nights we have adopted a stategy that is beginning to work, but cannot be the solution as it involves me having to relax her, cuddle her, stay with her whilst she tries to overcome her fears downstairs and finally take her to bed and stay with her until she thinks she can go to sleep, There are lots of tears and although she can't say clearly what it is with her stomach, she is in fact getting a notted stomach due to fear. The complete process is taking between one hour to 2 hours, which is a darn sight better than the other nights. However she is becoming to reliant on me relaxing her, and won't let anybody else do it.

The CD may be a way of helping her relax (without so much intervention by us, which wil never work in the long run).
I am pretty sure I can implement a strategy where she goes to bed and listens to such a CD and hopefully relaxes and falls asleep. Above all she has to be able to be in control and feel confident to go to bed on her own.
Medication is a no no as she will become obsessive and too reliant on it.
She is asthmatic, so I am a bit wary of using fragrances to help her relax.

Les

JennyO :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: freda underhill
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 01:48 AM

I use a hypnotic CD or tape (I have both). I just turn it on, listen to the words and drift off..

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: JennyO
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 01:16 AM

How do you know all of that is going on if you are asleep :-)

LOL Villan. Actually I fall asleep while some of those noises are going on, and I know some of them continue. As for the thunderstorms and rain, John tells me about them, or I get up and can see there's been some heavy rain. As for THE FLUSH OF A DISTANT TOILET (which is not really all that distant) - he gets up really early, long before I do, and performs his ablutions in the room next door, and I usually sleep right through it.

So there :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Bert
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 08:33 PM

The most important thing is not to worry about it, which is sometimes easier said than done.

Just relax and know that when your body really needs sleep you will not be able to stay awake.

Whatever you do don't try to write a song or do anything equally important.

Most people sleep more than they actually think they do. I usually wake up two or three times during the night and just turn over and go back to sleep or just lie there and relax and I don't let it bother me.

Or read Chaucer's "The Knight's Tale", I bet you don't finish it before you're asleep.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 03:31 PM

Avoid at all costs:
Neighbours-whose musical tastes run to very loud 4 in a bar bass drum dance "music".
Neighbours -who have telly in the bedroom and fall asleep with it on.
Neighbours- whose doors will not shut without the maximum force.
Neighbours.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 03:08 PM

Gee, thanks, Bill!

Amos, I am also glad to always awake!

Guest, I didn't know that about Napoleon!

Other guest? I will try an ionizer.

I don't do any caffeine.

Saw the doc this A.M. We're doing bloodwork to check out all kinds of things, just as a precaution. Also, another overnight pulse ox test to check on the past sleep apnea. Will keep posted.

Thanks, again,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Amos
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 02:41 PM

Just looking at the print on the green background makes me want to go unconscious, Bill!!! LOL


A

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 02:35 PM

well, there is always the ULTIMATE solution

Oswald Spengler- "the Decline of the West"

take 1 chapter at bedtime.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 02:18 PM

I don't usually have trouble sleeping. A friend once told me of typically lying in bed for an hour or more every night before he finally sleeps. I think I might be awake for a minute or two--my head hits the pillow and I'm out.

Getting to bed is the trick--sometimes I'm up later than I like when I'm working on things, and sometimes it is because I've had caffeine too late in the day. I don't drink caffeinated drinks after about 3pm and I start thinking about trying to go to bed around 10:30, though actually get to bed between 11 and 12.

I'm a practitioner of the power nap--they're absolutely wonderful. The optimum length of time for me is somewhere between 11 and 15 minutes. Set a kitchen timer on the dresser, pull a washcloth or pillow over my eyes to block out the light, and just relax. (Discourage the cats from trying to join you partway through or it disturbs the relaxation.) You don't need a lot of sleep to feel very refreshed. These don't interfere with going to sleep at night.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 02:01 PM

Some people use a ticking wind-up clock to help fall asleep. Helps puppies sleep when they're separated from their mother. The ticking is pretty annoying to me though.

Some people use ionizers by their beds. Something to do with short circuiting the surplus electricity your body produces...helps you relax. Same effect as being near a beach with a sea breeze high in negative ions. I think I got that right, +/-. I know a couple of people who swear by ionizers as sleep aids.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Amos
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 01:52 PM

Nothing makes me drop to sleep faster than getting physically exhausted doing home improvements.

But I never stay that way. I count myself lucky that so far, I have awoken each time I went to sleep. If I ever find that I went to sleep and stayed that way, I would start looking for an alternative universe or a new body or something. ;>)


A

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Metchosin
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 01:38 PM

Oddly enough, Part 1 of the CBC documentary that I linked to above was on again last night. It again, for me, put the subject of this thread in a totally different light.

Changes in our sleep patterns, that are not linked to some underlying medical problem, are normal and natural as we age. Expecting the constant uninterrupted night's sleep of our youth is unrealistic. But you do have a choice. Medicate, with all it's ramifications or embrace the change and don't worry about it.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: number 6
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 12:36 PM

Read accounting periodicals, reread some of your old university textbooks ( my favourites are macro economics), mend old socks, or go onto the Mud Cat ... being a long time sufferer of insomia, I find these will set the sails to navigate ya to sleep.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 10:57 AM

JennO
>>Strangely though, I will quite happily sleep through noises outside, such as traffic, night birds, sirens, rain, thunder (unless it's a really loud bang), even early morning noises such as people talking outside, bins banging and - dare I say it -

THE FLUSH OF A DISTANT TOILET! <<

How do you know all of that is going on if you are asleep :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Gizmo
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 09:22 AM

I too would and have found the fan going annoying.

Once the doctor was going to recommend sleeping tablets, but my reservations were thus -

I am a single parent, alone in the house with two young children.

When they turn in their sleep I am practically awake. This I feel in someways is a good thing that I sleep so light, because if there was a problem I would be jumping out of bed, before my brain caught up.

If I was to take sleeping tablets which send me off into a deep sleep - the kids would have to fend for themselves, if tey couldn't wake me up.

The thought is far too scary.

So I declined having tablets, even if they would have done me the world of good.

I do sleep really well whenever I am out of the city and in rural and country ares etc. I tend to prefer animal noises rather than sirens, traffic, drunken yobbos shouting etc

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: JennyO
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 08:21 AM

run a small fan near your bed. White noise covers other sounds and is soothing.

This just shows me how different our individual needs are! We get some very hot nights here in Sydney in summer - I'm talking over 30 degrees C in the middle of the night, with not a breath of wind, which makes it hard to sleep - although thankfully not too many like this so far this summer.

I have wanted to put the fan on to try and cool myself down as I lie sweltering on my hot bed. It feels better, but try as I might, I find that the sound of the fan, even purring quietly on a low setting, stops me from sleeping - there's something about it that I find intensely annoying. So I usually have to forgo the cooling effect and keep it off.

I can't sleep on planes either - even on long-haul flights. The droning of the plane affects me the same as the fan - probably worse, because there is a rumbling and vibration as well.

Strangely though, I will quite happily sleep through noises outside, such as traffic, night birds, sirens, rain, thunder (unless it's a really loud bang), even early morning noises such as people talking outside, bins banging and - dare I say it -

THE FLUSH OF A DISTANT TOILET!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 11:42 PM

I don't know if this works at night, but I tried it once when I needed to take a nap during the day (don't normally, but I needed rest for that night). Anyway, I had just read that Napoleon used to have a trick for falling asleep.

It is said he would picture a large dresser (dresser of drawers with lots of drawers). He would then think about the problems plaguing him, and he'd picture opening the bottom drawer and placing his biggest problem in it. He'd close the drawer and repeat the process, working up the dresser, placing problems in one drawer after another. And from what I read he claimed he had never reached the top of the dresser.

Makes sense when you think about it, as the problems get smaller and smaller on your way up, until you're not even dealing with real problems anymore, just trivial things that can't keep you awake.

It worked for me the day I needed to take a nap.

Also, if noises keep you awake, run a small fan near your bed. White noise covers other sounds and is soothing.

Avoid bright lights after sundown (artificial light throws off your body's clock).

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 10:09 PM

LOL...thanks for the *light relief*.

Pat/Partridge, you and me both!

Ambien had absolutely no effect on me. I still have a left over bottle of it. I am going to ask my doctor if there is a time-released version of Lunesta, as I was amazed to find I went to sleep without even being aware of drifting off. Only thing was, I woke up two hours later. I am also going to ask him how to wean off the muscle relaxant as I don't think it is really doing anything except maybe helping me get to sleep although still in a toss and turn manner.

My bed and pillows are comfy, room cool, fresh air and warm shower before bedtime. The only other thing I can think of that may need changing and I am resisting is a nighttime phone visit with a best friend from Mudcat; someone who hasn't been on here in about four years. She and I have bonded so strongly and share everything about our day and our plans for the next day. It isn't an every night thing, but I am wondering if I need to make that call earlier in the evening. It isn't that it upsets me in anyway, rather is very validating and helpful for both of us, but I am wondering if it is stimulating my mind too much. But, then I think it might be more the stress of adult children and How Their Lives Turn, finances, etc., etc.!**bg** If I could get Rog to take a freakin' vacation I think it would help!

Susan, Morgan does his best, but he is only three.:-) He was so sweet this morning. Came over early in his jammies still. I was in bed, so he crawled in. I got up a few minutes later and started to get dressed. He saw that I was still tired and out of sorts, so said to me, "Momma, sit down and relax with me." Outta the mouths o'babes.... (He calls his mom, "mom.")

Thanks, again,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Adrianel
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 09:50 PM

and there was the dyslexic agnostic who suffered from insomnia - he lay awake all night wondering if there was a dog.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: bobad
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 09:38 PM

I gave up religion and now I sleep like a baby.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 05:14 PM

And, if you live in the UK, it's illegal to buy melatonin. Which maybe just as well.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: GUEST,LilyFestre
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 05:09 PM

There was a time when I was going through an extreme amount of stress and was depressed and not sleeping for days (4-5 days) at a time. I was wired and miserable and EXHAUSTED but unable to sleep. I finally gave in and went to the Dr. I didn't want to take any kind of sleeping medications but it proved to be the ONLY thing that would allow my body the rest that I needed.

My Dr. gave me Ambien. He gave me 30 pills and in a 3 year time period, I think I have taken 5 of them. They are very potent and will let you rest. They will also make you incredibly loopy (do NOT drive with this stuff!!! Also, if you sign online and type to folks, you may well find out some very interesting things in the morning that you have no recollection of writing). I didn't fall asleep right at first, my body was fighting me all the way with it but eventually (I think I was awake for 2-3 hours after I took it) I did sleep, all night long. I woke up without being groggy or overly tired and it really worked for me. If I had difficulty sleeping (more than a restless night here or there) I wouldn't hesitate to take it again.

If you are dead set against any kind of medication, I'd do what the others have suggested. Lots of activity outside, a warm shower, cool bedroom, hot tea (chamomile, decaf.), clean sheets, a nicely made bed, pillows just the way you like, a window open just a bit for fresh air...

Sweet Dreams.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 04:57 PM

For the record, melatonin is not an herbal extract. It is a hormone that regulates sleep cycles, and is normally secreted by the pineal gland.

I'd go with excercise. Certain types of antihimines are effective (as Susan mentioned), and antidepressant can help keep you asleep once you got there. Your best bet is to talk it over with your doctor if it's a continuing problem. I've had occasional problems after having no trouble most of my life. I think my metabolism was going batshit.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Partridge
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 04:54 PM

I have read this thread in the hope it would help me, I have suffered from insomnia for years. I have tried herbal treatments, homeopathy, CD's, relaxation exercises, .............countless remedies. It does not matter what time I go to bed I always wake up about 5 hours later if I'm lucky ( My body clock likes to get up at about 5am thats ok if I've retired at 9 or 10, but on the odd occsion when I've stayed up well after midnight - its a swine)
I usually go to bed about 10pm and wake about 2 or 3 I get up have a drink of water go to the loo and the try and go back to sleep. Usually I cant sleep after that - I doze for about an hour and in frustration get up. What I want is a magic something that will put me to sleep for at least 8 hours.
Pat xx

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 04:52 PM

Susan, to do what I would for a child just isn't possible.

I know-- I've been wanting a mommie this week particularly, myself. It's a challenge, isn't it, to learn to do these things for ourselves and still get the benefit threfrom? But I bet Morgan could and would do that for you, for a nap.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 04:33 PM

LOL...I tried an amaretto sour which is all I ever drink and then only about once every couple of years. Didn't do much at all.-)

Susan, to do what I would for a child just isn't possible. My mom or dad aren't here to sing to me and stroke my back or hair and tuck it behind my ear as they sing.:-) (Rog doesn't sing and needs classes in massage therapy! For that matter, he is a bit infuriating without meaning to be. It doesn't matter to him what his day has been like. As soon as he hits the pillow, he is out like a light!)

I'll figure it out. I think it is a combo of things, but mostly some high stress. Things seem to be evening out so there's hope. I DO really appreciate all of your suggestions and sharing, folks. Thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Gizmo
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 04:27 PM

I've been having a similar problem too.

Only that things to help most people sleep do the opposite for me.- Long story, but guarantee listeners won't have trouble sleeping if I explain.

Many a time have I been doing physical exercise for the best part of the day (morris dancing, single parent 2 kids, line dancing, taking dog for walks, bike riding), I also don't have too many sugary things and caffeine is a rare thing in my system. Stil I lie in bed, leg or foot twitching, thoughts going from everywhere to eternity and then all over again.

I have to read something very boring and repetitive or doing a logic problem/crossword. I then practically pass out with exhaustion around 3/4am.

Yet, if I have been at college all day, done 3 hours of intense home study, sorted meals for kids, plus done above said exercises, I tend to get off to sleep alot earlier.

If all else fails, a bottle of gin sorts me out.

Feel rough the next day though.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 03:39 PM

It just gets to me after so long, over a month this time, ya know?

Bingo-- that's it, right there. First you have to get some sense of what is normal, FOR YOU, as a cycle, over time. THEN you decide how to handle things when they get beyond what is normal all the way to un-handle-able, FOR YOU, and choose a strategy to return things to normality.

If you were a child you were caring for, what cycle would you move that child towards, and how, gently, would you do it? THAT should help you choose an approach.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Cluin
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 03:23 PM

With lots of fresh air and activity.

Obviously, the opposite of sitting here in front of the computer.

On that note...

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 12:44 PM

Thanks, folks! Mets, I will be sure to listen to that, thanks for posting the link.I try not to get upset over it, but it's been chronic lately and it gets to me.-)

I've tried most of what has been posted, though I do confess to reading in bed, probably too much, and, also giving up in the middle of the night and coming in to work on my writing or something else on the computer. That works for me, sometimes, because it means I am taking care of things which have been on my mind.

Reading usually works because I read for entertainment. Have tried the antihistamines, but I hate taking any kind of drugs. Did have to do a bout with a muscle relaxant when my neck and shoulder went wonky. I think I am still recovering from that. Also used to take a generic of xanax, but weaned off it about three months ago and do NOT miss it. Tried Lunesta, BillD, and it put me right to sleep, was wonderful, but true to my form, I was awake two hours later.

That seems to be the pattern for me, every two hours I am awake.

Music, sometimes, helps me get to sleep, but there doesn't seem to be anything which keeps me asleep. I get up early at the same time and go to bed late at the mostly same time.

I will ask about melatonin when I see my doc on Friday. I think it is okay with coumadin, but will have to make sure. I am also going in for a tune-up with my acupuncturist, so that will help. Have also started back on my gi gong regimen early in the evening, this week.

Thanks, again. It just gets to me after so long, over a month this time, ya know?

kat

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 11:46 AM

stress has made it an issue for me, and for awhile I was given Restoril (Temezepam), which is sort of a tranquilizer, but it is not for long term use. I even got that 'special offer' from Lunesta for 7 free pills, but somehow I must be resistant to it....and it is **EXPENSIVE** to try on a regular basis.)

As a couple of folks have noted, Melatonin can help....be careful to start on a LOW dose..(½ microgram, maybe)...to this I often add 1 to 1½ tabs of something like Tylenol PM (active ingredient..Benedryl), which is not physically addictive. These tricks can help, but YOUR metabolism, body weight, eating habits (too much supper to digest can delay meds working)...etc. will determine when to take them and how much. I still wake up too early sometimes, and have to decide whether to try again or just be a bit sleepy that day. I am getting so I do ok maybe 75% of the time.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Metchosin
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 11:38 AM

If your interested kat, you can get it as a podcast from past Canadian CBC Ideas programming. I believe I have the right one linked, entitled "While You Were Out"

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 11:23 AM

Melatonin usually works for me.

Complete things so your mind is not called back to the day.

Do situps or leg stretch exercises just before retiring, or a long walk.

Darkness and a comfortable bed.

A

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Metchosin
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 11:12 AM

Valarian which you can get at most drug or health food stores works well, kat. However it might help to stop stressing over it.

A programme I listened to recently, announced that current sleep research and studies regarding biorythyms? have determined that it is normal to not sleep through the night without interruption. As we age, this normal pattern becomes more pronounced, because our bodies have more difficulty supressing our natural circadian? rhythyms, with which our modern lifestyles have drastically interfered.

Prior to the advent of gas, electric and other bright forms of lighting, we apparently woke after a few hours, most commonly between midnight and three in the morning and people thought nothing of it. Old texts used to refer to this as the "first sleep" and "the second sleep" and the time between was apparently also considered the best time for sex to insure conception. LOL

The studies suggested that, rather than lying there worrying over the fact that you are now wide awake in the middle of the night and counting down the time when you have to get up and stressing over that, it was better, health wise, to just go with the flow and even get up and paddle about with some activity until you feel tired again. That is, I guess, if your partner isn't up to a little very early morning rumpy pumpy. I don't think they recommended propping yourself in front of a brightly lit computer monitor though.

The programme also noted that we know less about sleep than just about any other process that goes on in our body and that way more research is needed in this neglected area.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Becca72
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 11:06 AM

I do all the stuff Charmoin suggests(except the television...I can't fall asleep without it on but mine has a sleep timer) and it's not working lately. It will pass...happens every so often anyway. It's just frustrating while in the midst of a bout of poor sleep.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 10:57 AM

Melatonin was the herbal extract I was trying to think of. It worked wonders when our son was having trouble getting to sleep. It's not supposed to knock you out - just help regulate your sleep patterns.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Charmion
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 10:52 AM

First, establish a regular bedtime. Eat lightly and drink little at supper, and avoid stimulating activity (except sex) for at least an hour before bedtime. Actually go to bed at or around that time every night. Be sure to visit the loo first.

Set the alarm clock and put out the light -- no television, no reading. Turn the radio on only if you have the kind that can be programmed to turn itself off after an hour or so. Compose yourself for sleep: curl up in your favourite position and pull the blanket and/or quilt up to ear level. Close your eyes and think calm thoughts. Lather, rinse, repeat.

This method really works.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Emma B
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 10:42 AM

Thank you guests - always good advice on the Cat :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Scoville
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 10:41 AM

No caffeine after lunch
Regular exercise (I go for walks; you don't have to kill yourself)
Comfortable bed
Dark, quiet, cool room
Get up early (most of us have to do that for work, anyway)
Set a sleep schedule--go to bed about the same time and get up the same time every day.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 10:40 AM

Read a good book and then off to the potty for me. There is an herbal extract that is supposed to regulate sleep patterns. The name is on the tip of my tounge. As soon as I remember it I'll get back to you.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 10:37 AM

...or, in the absence of a good shag, a good tot of rum does the trick for me. Prefer the shag, though...

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 10:32 AM

Physical exercise - enough to get the endorphins going - is pretty good. A brisk walk, a run, chopping wood; all of them help. Sex is probably the best soporific - what was it Aristotle said about "post coitum...."?
Looking at a computer screen is the worst; your brain is racing, your body is doing nothing and your eyes are getting all scratchy.
So turn off your computer and turn on someone else!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Emma B
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 10:26 AM

I just usually go to bed when I actually feel tired. This may mean sitting at the computer until after 2am or simply crashing out in the middle of a session (well it was MY campervan! :-) ) but it does mean that I'm not lying awake worrying about lying awake.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 10:08 AM

I'm too old for early retirement, but I believe a clean conscience helps. If only I knew where to get one.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Becca72
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 10:01 AM

I'm too young for early retirement! LOL

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 09:55 AM

I used to have the problem of sleeping for maybe a couple of hours and then waking up . I solved the problem by taking early retirement
and reducing my stress level by 100 % overnight !

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 09:46 AM

Antihistamine-- half the dose described on the bottle and just the one before bed, not a second one 4-6 hours later. After a day with sufficient exercise and sufficient calories not to wake up hungry in the night.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Becca72
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 09:36 AM

If you find out, please share the information. I have been going to bed 1 to 2 hours later than usual and waking up 1 to 2 hours earlier than usual for over a week now. I used to get 8 hours...now I'm down to around 4 and I don't function well that way!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 09:29 AM

Stress causes me to wake up and not be able to go back to sleep. If it is chronic, a sleep aid used temporarily to create a pettern may help but they are dangerously addictive. Regular patterns for meals and sleep, regular exercise and try ro relax.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: JennyO
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 08:48 AM

I don't know of any surefire way, but things that help me are magnesium, doing lots of physical stuff - particularly outdoors - so that I get really tired, and making lists of things to do, so that I don't have to lie in bed thinking about it. If anything is nagging at me, I try to deal with it in some way by writing it down. It seems to lose its power somewhat then.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 08:36 AM

I am plagued by night waking whenever I am not doing regular exercise. I have been back on the treadmill for two months now, and am sleeping like a baby. That's fine if you're physically able to do aerobic exercise, but I mention it as it works well for me.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: skipy
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 07:59 AM

Overdose, that will do it forever!
Skipy

Subject: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 07:42 AM

I didn't ask this on the insomiac thread because I don't want to be an insomniac!**bg**

Seriously, any surefire ways of getting to sleep and staying that way?

Thanks!