BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: JennyO
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 01:16 AM

How do you know all of that is going on if you are asleep :-)

LOL Villan. Actually I fall asleep while some of those noises are going on, and I know some of them continue. As for the thunderstorms and rain, John tells me about them, or I get up and can see there's been some heavy rain. As for THE FLUSH OF A DISTANT TOILET (which is not really all that distant) - he gets up really early, long before I do, and performs his ablutions in the room next door, and I usually sleep right through it.

So there :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: freda underhill
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 01:48 AM

I use a hypnotic CD or tape (I have both). I just turn it on, listen to the words and drift off..

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Rasener
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 02:20 AM

Freda
What is the CD freda?

This thread is spooky.

For the last 2 weeks our Autistic daughter has suddenly got a phobia about getting to sleep at night. Its really bad and has cost the family their sleep on quite a few nights. At this moment we can only relate to the excitement of Christmas, but it is more likely to be something she has seen on telly.However, we haven't manged to get a reason from her about why she is suddenly having this problem.

The last 3 nights we have adopted a stategy that is beginning to work, but cannot be the solution as it involves me having to relax her, cuddle her, stay with her whilst she tries to overcome her fears downstairs and finally take her to bed and stay with her until she thinks she can go to sleep, There are lots of tears and although she can't say clearly what it is with her stomach, she is in fact getting a notted stomach due to fear. The complete process is taking between one hour to 2 hours, which is a darn sight better than the other nights. However she is becoming to reliant on me relaxing her, and won't let anybody else do it.

The CD may be a way of helping her relax (without so much intervention by us, which wil never work in the long run).
I am pretty sure I can implement a strategy where she goes to bed and listens to such a CD and hopefully relaxes and falls asleep. Above all she has to be able to be in control and feel confident to go to bed on her own.
Medication is a no no as she will become obsessive and too reliant on it.
She is asthmatic, so I am a bit wary of using fragrances to help her relax.

Les

JennyO :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 02:27 AM

There are only two things that have ever worked for me: (1) a small amount of alcohol and (2) a warm body (human, opposite gender) next to mine in bed. I much prefer #2.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Rasener
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 02:39 AM

Guest
My duaghter is only 11 and your 2 suggestions wouldn't be appropriate at the moment. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: freda underhill
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 03:07 AM

Les

I don't know how a hypnotic Cd would go for a child, but I'll pm you the website details and you can have a look and see if there's anything suitable. When my children were young I made a tape of myself telling stories to them - they used to listen to that when they went to sleep. My grandaughter listens to a number of music CDs including one called Dream Children by the Adelaide Symphony Orchestra which is very soothing and relaxing. I'll send you the info about that as well!

good luck

freda

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Rasener
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 03:35 AM

Thanks very much Freda

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: autolycus
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 05:54 AM

Plenty of exercise and eating lightly in the evening do a lot for me.

   if i can't get to sleep, i get myself off by doing a complicated multiplication (3-digi number by 3-digit is enough for me) in my head, and keep restarting if I get lost. Usually asleep before the answer.

   Another trick is to try staying awake, and wake myself if I notice I'm drifting - till I've gone. Sort of self-reverse psychology.


   One fresh suggestion, see a therapist. I believe some people may be sleepless because there are things baging around the ol' unconscious that dealing with. Tho' I did think the Napoleon idea was brilliant.


   What I do also these days is put on a tape of a comedy show I've heard a thousand times. Lightly entertaining with the right level of boredom built in.


   God luck,Kat





    Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 06:23 AM

read the New Scientist in bed.

but staying asleep - maybe I have a clear conscience - only joking.

Apart from the trips to the loo, I sleep well enough unless I have problems at work or threats to continued work. Or women problems.

Thinking nice thoughts does work but it is not just a case of saying it - it has to be worked at. Try mental conundrums, arithmatic, learning song lyrics, what you would do with all that lottery money should you ever be so ........

basically crowd-out the thoughts that keep you awake and replace them with ones that will send you to ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: *daylia*
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 09:25 AM

I like that, Mr Red. Here's some "replacement thoughts" (affirmations) that work well for me. When I have trouble falling asleep its usually because I'm worried or overly stressed. So I just pick (or create) one and repeat it over and over to myself. This silences the stressful thoughts and creates a feeling of calm and comfort instead, which I enjoy until the (eventually very boring!) repetition drives me straight to lah-lah land ...

"I now give my mind a joyful vacation."   

"I now release the events of the day and drop off into a deep peaceful sleep. I will wake up in the morning refreshed and revitalized and looking forward to another wonderful day!"

"I love life, and tomorrow always looks after itself. All is well!"

(affirmations paraphrased from Louise Hay's "You Can Heal Your Life")

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 10:03 AM

More great suggestions, folks.

Tried the next stronger dosage of Lunesta last night and actually slept! from about 1230a-545a!!! Yes! I don't like having to use a drug, but anything is better than what it has been lately. It's expensive, though! $60 deductible and they are four bucks per tablet!

As I get more rest, I will be trying some of the above. Also, the acu and massage therapist will help and we'll see what the bloodwork reveals, if anything.

Thanks, again!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 08:52 PM

Becca: maybe there is hidden caffeine you're not aware of? Some chocolate has it, some doesn't. Some orange sodas are caffeine free, some aren't. Kahlua is stuffed with caffeine. Hot peppers or cayenne can keep you awake like caffeine can. Green tea has more than you think. etc.   So you might want to look back over any subtle changes in what you've been taking in?

Bill D: Tylenol is not addictive of course, but you really don't want to take it on a regular basis, it has quite a toxic effect if taken too frequently. Keep it occasional.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 09:19 PM

Reading any of Boberts's or Ron Davies posts normally does it for me.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: GUEST,Scoville
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 09:29 PM

Katlaughing--but it might be worth it if even using it temporarily helps improve your "habit" of sleeping and set up a routine, so you eventually can sleep without it. My mother tried it for awhile and it helped her.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 10:09 PM

Try St. John's Wort: 2 tablets of 300 mg concentrate Standardized Herbal Extract an hour or so before bedtime. This Mood Enhancer herb is good for minor depression (the "blues" type mood).

It may take a week or so to work so give it at least that much time. I would never take more than 3 tablets per day and never more than one in the morning followed by 2 before bedtime. If the herb works for you, drowsiness and yawning will occur if you take them during the day when you need to be alert for work or driving.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 11:18 PM

St. John's Wort can be quite powerful and is contraindicated with some of the meds I am on. Thanks, though. I used to gather it on St. John's day and make a tincture of it in olive oil. It works really well on bruises and turns a beautiful ruby red as it *cures* in a jar in teh sun.

Scoville, that's what I am thinking and what my doc said. I will definitely give it a chance. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: GUEST,van lingle
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 06:24 AM

kat, I didn't read through this whole thread and someone may have mentioned this earlier but when I was going through some sleep problems I read somewhere that a small carbohydrate-laden snack like a cookie eaten about a half-hour before you retire will prevent you from waking up in the middle of the night. Works for me. vl

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 10:56 AM

Thanks, van, don't think anyone mentioned that specifically. I like cookies.:-) With low blood sugar, though, if I eat too many carbs without some kind of protein, too, I usually feel really hungry shortly after.

Waiting to see what the blood work says. Thanks, everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: autolycus
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 11:59 AM

A friend told me this afternoon that dehydration can lead to sleeplessness for some, and drinking more water has led to better sleep for some.






      Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Partridge
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 02:15 PM

I got a free relaxation CD in the paper yesterday. Its done by Paul McKenna, the hypnotist. I'll let you know if it works!

Pat x

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 02:18 PM

Read the instructions carefully. There are some medical warnings. I assume they are not windups.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 02:22 PM

I was also recommended one of those Motion Aquarium Lights, like THIS The Mudcatter who recommended it said it put her to sleep in a heartbeat!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Podger
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 05:18 PM

Sing to her, Villan.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 06:12 PM

er I think not. That would only make it worse :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Partridge
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 03:17 AM

The CD was did not make me sleep. I did feel relaxed I think, but I still took ages to drop off. Aw well, back to the drawing board. I have heard that lime blossom tea before bed helps. Just have to work out where to get it from!

pat x

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 05:52 AM

How do you get to sleep & stay that way? Personally, I find a bed that doesn't have Manitas in it! He's a snorer with a high core temp and restless leg syndrome (although he'd never admit it or maybe doesn't even realise it!). He gets very hot when he's asleep so pushes the covers off onto me. I end up with a double duvet, being kicked in the leg and kept awake by his snoring. After intake of alcohol the snoring increases in both volume and intensity.

Sometimes a few nights in a bed that doesn't have a partner in it can do the trick, restoring a natural sleep pattern which stays with you when you move the partner back in. I know that whenever one or other of us has been away or we have twin beds in a hotel, I get a better quality sleep and it stays that way for a month or so after we get home.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 07:41 AM

I used to use a Outside-In light (the last one was American in origin) - it has an alarm mode that will bring the light up slowly - and more pertinently it can be set to dim the light over a period. It allows you to wake properly and begin to set a rhythm to the whole day.

May be worth a thought.

Also - do you get a really strong shot of light mid-day? daylight usually does it but not if overcast or muggy. A lot of insomnia is traceable to seratonin levels and the same organisations that sell the alarm clocks sell light boxes to replace missing daylight in the winter.
Upset circadian rhythms often cause poor sleep. The strong light resets the body clock and seratonin production. Jet lag is cited as similarly affecting seratonin, though taking it never seemed to improve jet lag.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 09:38 AM

Thanks, Mr. Red. In sunny Colorado where we get over 300 days of sunshine every year, yes, I do get lots of midday sun.:-)

I've seen those clocks, but I don't think it would be much good here. we have a fairly stable amount of light and dark in our bedroom.

LtS, has Manitas ever been checked for sleep apnea? Sounds as though he should...the snoring is a sign. I hear ya about separate beds. I would but we've no room for it!:-)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: autolycus
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 03:37 PM

Just some confirmation.

A ladt at work heard me banging on about water and has benefitted from upping her intake.

I asked her today if that had alspo improved her sleep and she said 'definitely', and that she wakes up fresh, unlike in the past.





       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 03:56 PM

Thanks, ivor. Since water is the only thing I drink, I get at least a gallon a day, if not 1.5 gallons per day. I DO notice it if I don't get that much, though!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Rasener
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 03:59 PM

LOL <>

Only makes me want to go to the toilet more in the night, and then can't get back to sleep :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 05:32 PM

"LtS, has Manitas ever been checked for sleep apnea? Sounds as though he should...the snoring is a sign." ~ I have suggested it but he doesn't believe me when I tell him how badly he snores... I suspect an investigation could identify a lot of his problems, but it would mean several lifestyle changes that he's just not prepared or scared enough to do yet.

"I hear ya about separate beds. I would but we've no room for it" ~ ya mean ya don't have a couch he can sleep on... a floor he can get to know better??! :-]

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: autolycus
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 06:19 PM

Hi Villan

Drink more earlier in the day, less as the day goes on,drink in sips rather than like downing a pint to give the body time to digest, and always go to the .... before bedding.





      ivor

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 06:50 PM

Why worry about it? If I'm awake, I'm awake, if I'm drowsing off, I'm drowing off, if I'm asleep, I'm asleep. Nothing wrong with any of those states. I suppose the worry is that think we we need the sleep and that if we don't go to sleep it'll screw us up.

I think there are situatins like that, where people just can't go to sleep at all - but dropping off and waking up a few times in the night is a pretty normal thing to do, especialy as we grow a bit older. I think our bodies can generally take care of that stuff, and that we get as much sleep as we need.

Of course it helps when we can lie in in the morning and don't have to leap out of bed and belt off to work...

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 07:57 PM

yes, to that last bit, McGrath. :-) When I have a three year old come bounding in at 730a I'd like to be firing on all six, or is it eight? cylinders.**bg** Of course, once in a great while, he crawls in with me and we watch PBS kids' shows for an hour, but usually we have a class or something to go to. Grandma needs her sleep!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 08:16 AM

are you a sheep fan?

d8^)

circadian rhythms may still be indicated - I heard of cases where the natural rhythm was out of phase with the mid-day peak and slowly rotating the sleep time helped (ie later each day) - but how you do that and work around others' routines I have no idea - these were hospital cases and cures.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 11:20 PM

Gee, Teribus--posts by me or Bobert put you to sleep? That makes you truly a medical marvel--since despite being asleep you virtually always respond, in great, if poorly reasoned detail, to our posts. With that skill, perhaps you should seek circus employment.

But at any rate, that explains the lack of logic in your postings--you're always asleep while writing them. It's certainly a relief to know that-- that it's not just you're incapable of making sense.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 12:22 AM

Ivor
>>Drink more earlier in the day, less as the day goes on,drink in sips rather than like downing a pint to give the body time to digest<<

Never tried it like that. Not sure if the missus will like me drinking the alcohol in the morning :-)

Well tonight it was 2 am before I hit the sack, as my duaghter had a particularly bad night. Just woke up after 3 hours sleep. Not feeling too bad. I will hit the sack again at 6 and up at 7:30.

Les

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Bagpuss
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 05:05 AM

To the guest to recommended St John's Wort, a caution - don't use it if you are on any other medication, even antibiotics or the contraceptive pill, as SJW interferes with the liver function, I think making it clear drugs more quickly and therefore making the standard dose less effective.

I would second the person who mentioned the sunrise alarm clocks if you have trouble with hypersomnia in the winter - before I had kids to wake me up at random intervals I found it invaluable in the winter (I have SAD).

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 05:55 AM

I'm beginning to think that SAD may be part of my troubles.. it's been particularly gloomy and dim here for the last few weeks, only a couple of sunny mornings where I was busy indoors and couldn't get out into it. This week I'm definately feeling down and unwell, and not sleeping properly. Last night I was sewing under a daylight bulb and had a pretty good night's sleep. I still feel like crap, but only moderately so today. I think today will be spent looking for a better lamp.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Partridge
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 11:21 AM

Got some of that lime blossom tea I mentioned earlier in the thread. I'll let you know if it works. I was also told by the herbalist(where I got the lime blossom tea) that a lettuce sandwich helps you drop off. guess what I'm having for supper

cheers

pat

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 11:37 AM

"variable whiskey", of course!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 11:51 AM

Lettuce pray for Pat :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 09:04 AM

Here's my advice. It's a pill (which is not a sleeping pill) and it sometimes can do wonders in apnea cases.

The German name is Remergil (most likely not the American name) and the ingredient that is the active agent in it is Mirtazapin (allow for slighly different spelling in English).

It is a weak anti-depressive pill and it has an interesting side effect. It suppresses effectively some symptoms (like breath stops etc) of apnea. That's not yet well known. And it has a rare dose-effect relation. The apnea suppressing side effect is strong with a small dosis. The smallest pill (15 mg) should suffice.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: GUEST,ib48
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 09:10 AM

watch england playing,well,anything,Perfect cure for insomnia

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Scrump
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 09:18 AM

watch england playing,well,anything

It's easier to watch them playing badly than playing well :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: GUEST,ib48
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 11:49 AM

i was going to say football then realised they are cack at everything,okay

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 01:23 PM

When I can't sleep is is usually due to worry. I get a circular thought pattern going and I have to break it by forcing myslf to think of pleasant things. Things I like instead of things I don't like.

Also I relax by going completely limp, stretching out as far as possible and exhaling deeply. Like a balloon deflating.

Thirdly, a radio or TV with voices seems to distract my mind just enough to blank out thoughts. The sound from something like a fan helps some. I presume one of those sound generators that produce surf noises etc. would help too.

My wife says I coud go to sleep in a bus station. I frequently catch naps sitting on a bench in the mall while she shops.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 02:09 PM

Wolfgang, that's interesting, but I see a lot on google about some side effects that could be worrisome.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you get to sleep & stay that way?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 03:28 PM

Count Backwards from 100 ??