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Peter Kennedy Collection-moved to Halsway Manor

Related threads:
Peter Kennedy's Folktrax recordings (133)
Peter Kennedy First to Spot Beatles (19)
Obit: Peter Kennedy (1922-2006) (57)
Peter Kennedy archive collection (5)
Peter Kennedy event - 18 Nov Gloucester (3)
Review: Kennedy Collections (30)
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Folkiedave 04 Jan 07 - 02:58 PM
The Sandman 04 Jan 07 - 03:49 PM
Desert Dancer 04 Jan 07 - 05:46 PM
GUEST 05 Jan 07 - 02:59 AM
GUEST 05 Jan 07 - 06:36 PM
The Sandman 06 Jan 07 - 08:21 AM
GUEST 06 Jan 07 - 10:48 AM
dick greenhaus 06 Jan 07 - 11:28 AM
The Sandman 06 Jan 07 - 12:26 PM
dick greenhaus 07 Jan 07 - 12:53 PM
Folkiedave 07 Jan 07 - 01:31 PM
GUEST 07 Jan 07 - 03:14 PM
BB 07 Jan 07 - 05:19 PM
GUEST 07 Jan 07 - 05:23 PM
Folkiedave 07 Jan 07 - 05:41 PM
dick greenhaus 07 Jan 07 - 09:29 PM
Malcolm Douglas 07 Jan 07 - 11:45 PM
GUEST 08 Jan 07 - 03:36 AM
Geoff Wallis 09 Jan 07 - 02:23 PM
Vic Smith 30 Oct 07 - 06:04 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 30 Oct 07 - 02:01 PM
greg stephens 30 Oct 07 - 05:26 PM
GUEST,Hootenanny 30 Oct 07 - 05:58 PM
GUEST,irishenglish 30 Oct 07 - 06:20 PM
Desert Dancer 30 Oct 07 - 07:38 PM
GUEST,Jim Carroll 31 Oct 07 - 03:45 AM
GUEST,redmax 31 Oct 07 - 06:16 AM
GUEST 31 Oct 07 - 08:23 AM
GUEST,irishenglish 31 Oct 07 - 08:44 AM
GUEST,Nick Dow 31 Oct 07 - 08:59 AM
Fred McCormick 31 Oct 07 - 03:45 PM
dick greenhaus 31 Oct 07 - 04:01 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 31 Oct 07 - 04:38 PM
Geoff Wallis 31 Oct 07 - 06:15 PM
Dave Ruch 31 Oct 07 - 09:04 PM
dick greenhaus 31 Oct 07 - 09:07 PM
GUEST 01 Nov 07 - 04:11 AM
The Sandman 01 Nov 07 - 05:28 AM
Vic Smith 01 Nov 07 - 06:28 AM
GUEST,Jim Carroll 01 Nov 07 - 02:21 PM
GUEST,Hootenanny 01 Nov 07 - 05:59 PM
GUEST,Hootenanny 01 Nov 07 - 06:00 PM
dick greenhaus 01 Nov 07 - 06:13 PM
The Sandman 01 Nov 07 - 06:42 PM
johnadams 01 Nov 07 - 07:51 PM
GUEST,Jim Carroll 02 Nov 07 - 03:43 AM
halsway 28 Sep 10 - 07:02 AM
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Subject: Folklore: Kennedy Archive
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 02:58 PM

There was a lot of discussion towards the end of last year as to the destination of Peter Kennedy's archive.

Here is a copy of a press release.

KENNEDY ARCHIVE MOVES TO HALSWAY MANOR.

Following the death in July of Peter Kennedy, the folklorist and collector, the Library that Peter collected over many years has now been transferred to the care of Halsway Manor Society.

The collection includes:

the library of around 3000 books which includes presentations from Cecil Sharp and Maud Karpeles, Douglas and Helen Kennedy, the Kennedy-Frasers and others

a collection of journals and magazines

about 3000 "78 rpm" records consisting of early recordings of Scottish song and instrumentals and English song and copies of field recordings made by Peter Kennedy and other collectors

50 test pressings of recordings of folk dance music supervised by Peter Kennedy

about 3000 Long Playing Records including a significant collection of commercially pressed records of folk/world music and Field recordings made by private individuals (other than Peter Kennedy) and commercial companies. The largest item within this latter group is the collection of recordings of African music and customs.

a collection of around 500 commercial CDs and DVDs
a large collection of Reel-to-reel Tapes including Peter Kennedy's original field recordings and similar material, duplicate tapes of the collections of Alan Lomax and Frank Warner and Children's games collected by Father Damian Webb.

Halsway Manor Society, with the support of the Kennedy Family, will be discussing the specialist conservation requirements of the reel to reel collections with appropriate national organisations and transferring these to a national collection with suitable conservation facilities.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Kennedy Archive
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 03:49 PM

Well, shiver my timbers.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Kennedy Archive
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 05:46 PM

Thanks for the update, Folkiedave.

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Kennedy Archive
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 02:59 AM

In addition, there has been an indication (in a message to one of Kennedy's victims) that the American company Camsco is planning to release the entire Folktrax catalogue.
Haven't heard that there is any change to that plan.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Kennedy Archive
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 06:36 PM

No changes. CAMSCO has re-released about 50 so far; slow and steady.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Kennedy Archive
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 08:21 AM

as someone who is affected by this, albeit in only a minor way.[one track. The bald headed end of the broom].
I would prefer people not to buy the cassette,but to visit my web site www.dickmiles.com,if they want to buy anything, I have recorded.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Kennedy Archive
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 10:48 AM

Cap'n,
Camsco have offered to re-emburse at least one victim for having been ripped off and have expressed the desire to do likewise to others - why not contact them?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Kennedy Archive
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 11:28 AM

Captain Birdseye--
The only Kennedy release of Bald-Headed End of the Broom that I've encountered (to date)was sung by Martha Gillen (Folktrax 019). Is this the track you're referring to? Please PM me or E-mail me at dick@camscomusic.com


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Kennedy Archive
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 12:26 PM

no not folktrax [019].its in folktrax catalogue as cassette 0453.Bald Headed End of the Broom ,Dick And Sue Miles.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Kennedy Archive
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 12:53 PM

For clarification, since fome folks have aked:

    CAMSCO, for the past few years, has gradually been re-releasing Folktrax CDs in the US. This is not a bootleg operation--it was undertaken by agreement with Peter Kennedy, and is continuing working with the volunteer group that's handling Folktrax in the UK.
    The CDs are really repackaged, rather than re-released. The idea was that, although the music was wonderful, the form in which it was presented was off-putting to the American customer--Kennedy's CDs were hand labeled with a making pen, supplied in a grey paper envelope identified only by a number and accompanied by notes (often extremely good notes) that appeard to be Xeroxes of Xeroxes of the ouput of a 9-pin dot-matrix printer, 1980 vintage. CAMSCO is providing jewel cases, cover and tray art, properly printed discs and legible notes. The music is not remastered, edited nor modified. The notes may be re-arranged to meet space requirements, and have present tense statement modified to reflect the fact that they tend to be 30 or 40 years old, but are otherwise intact. CAMSCO is selling these CDs for $18.
    The purpose, of course, is to make more good traditional music available. The commercial benefit of this project to CAMSCO is nil. The degree of satisfaction in being able to make the music of artists the likes Sarah Makem, Bob Roberts, Paddy Tunney and a host of others, as well as the historically important (if acoustically dreadful) original recordings of people like Yankee John Galusha, Lena Bourne Fish, and sea songs collected by James Madison Carpenter is inestimable.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Kennedy Archive
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 01:31 PM

Thanks for that Dick. Would you be kind enough to explain - since I know it is a bone of contention with some people - what you are doing about royalties (whereever possible).

Dave Eyre


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Kennedy Archive
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 03:14 PM

And where can we find a catalogue?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Kennedy Archive
From: BB
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 05:19 PM

I'm delighted to know this, as Halsway is in our neck of the woods, and the library is accessible to those who want to use it.

What about the books that had already been sold off, Dave? Were they duplicates, or have Halsway lost out on them?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Kennedy Archive
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 05:23 PM

Dick,
While I still have reservations about the ownership of the Kennedy recordings, I am delighted that you are addressing some of the problems connected with the collection.
Are you including the field recordings to which Kennedy dubbed accompaniments and choruses?
Good luck.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Kennedy Archive
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 05:41 PM

I wont bore you with the full story Barbara. Suffice it to say that Halsway are not pursuing me for the books already sold.

They were theirs of that there is no doubt - but David Kennedy (executor of the will) believed they belonged to the family and he was entitled to sell them. Once they were found to belong to Halsway Manor sales stopped and unsold books returned.

I hope that clears up any confusion.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Kennedy Archive
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 09:29 PM

Re royalties.

As I stated above, CAMSCO is simply repackaging (by agreement) existing CDs that are owned by Folktrax. I can only assume that the ownership is responsible for legal obligations, including royalties.

Having said this, I'd like to restate my position: If any artist informs me that s/he is not receiving proper royalties from sales of any Folktrax CD that CAMSCO repackages, I'll be happy to pay such royalties.
Bear in mind, though, that the money involved isn't apt to be anything significant.

I don't know which "the field recordings to which Kennedy dubbed accompaniments and choruses" are; the vast bulk of what I've released to date has been unaccompanied singing.

The entire Folktrax catalog can be viewed online at www.folktrax.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
CAMSCO will supply any CD listed there--though the ones I haven't released yet may take a bit of time. You can buy directly from folktrax, though you won't get the more-professionally-packaged product that CAMSCO sells.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Kennedy Archive
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 11:45 PM

It would appear that, in the main, the recordings that Peter overdubbed were only issued on cassette; the later cd issues, for all their technical limitations, were mostly the real thing from what I've heard; though not necessarily uncut.

Dick Miles probably needn't worry. Although an arrangement of 'Bald Headed End of the Broom' by Dick & Sue Miles, apparently from a BBC Radio "Folk on Two" broadcast of 1984 is mentioned (once) on the FolkTrax site, the cassette number attached to it seems to belong to a completely unrelated compilation of South and West English dialect recordings.

Many such inconsistencies and duff links are to be found on that site (and Peter sometimes changed the content, title or serial of recordings he published), but there's no indication that Dick's track was ever available on cd; come to that, the old print catalogue of cassettes issued by Folktracks (as it was called back then) that I still have, and which must be at least 15 years old, makes no mention of it; though the dialect recording is there at number 453. Bear in mind that Peter often listed examples of recordings other than those he issued himself, particularly where not many were known; and in this case it was an arrangement of a song taken from his book Folksongs of Britain and Ireland in any case.

That doesn't mean that he didn't at some point issue a cassette including Dick's arrangement of the song; just that I can't find any verifiable information. My suspicion would be that the cassette reference is just one of the many errors on the FolkTrax site, but I'd be glad to hear from anyone who has better information, as, I expect, would 'Captain Birdseye'.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Kennedy Archive
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 03:36 AM

Kennedy issued a number of themed cassettes with dubbed accompaniments and choruses. Most of these, as far as I can judge, were from the BBC recordings and had such titles as:'Bald Headed End of The Broom', 'Frog And The Mouse', 'Black Velvet Band'; I think there were at least 10 in the series. I had the impression that this was an on-going practice as, when Topic approached him to issue the Harry Cox recordings one of the conditions was that accompaniments be dubbed on to these. To Topic's great credit, they refused to be part of his piece of vandalism and went ahead with other recordings.
I am delighted to learn from Malcolm that he eventually desisted.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Kennedy Archive
From: Geoff Wallis
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 02:23 PM

Hang on, let's take a step backwards here.

Dick Greenhaus is selling Peter Kennedy's recordings, often of highly questionable sound quality (DG: 'The music is not remastered, edited nor modified.') for $18 per CD in the USA. Hmm, excuse me while I unleash my profit-o-meter. Now I've no idea what Dick paid for each 'licence', but $18 strikes me as a remarkably high amount for punters to pay.

However, it's the question of royalties which galls me the most. Dick
also writes 'I can only assume that the ownership is responsible for legal obligations, including royalties.' and asks musicians to contact him regarding questions about unpaid fees.

Fine, but as Dick well knows, the overwhelming majority of the musicians whom Kennedy recorded are dead. So is he equally willing for the families of those said musicians to contact him regarding unpaid royalties?

Obviously it's going to take HM some time to get its act together regarding Kennedy's unpaid fees, but I suspect Dick might be a little bit more proactive regarding his own enterprise.


Geoff


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Subject: The Peter Kennedy Collection
From: Vic Smith
Date: 30 Oct 07 - 06:04 AM

Martin Graebe has posted the following very important announcement on the Musical Traditions website:-
The Peter Kennedy Collection
Peter Kennedy died on 10 June 2006 and his wife, Beryl, earlier this year. A small group has been working with David Kennedy to ensure that Peter's collection of sound recordings, books, papers and other artefacts remains available in the UK for future researchers. This group was formed at Peter's instigation a few months before his death and is known as Customs and Traditions or CAT.

It had become clear, in recent years, that maintaining the collection as a single entity was not going to be easy and so it proved. Peter's own efforts to secure a future for the collection were not, unfortunately, completely successful. There was some confusion in the months following his death but a set of agreements is now in place that has, we believe, resolved the situation as well as could be hoped in the circumstances.

The outcome of these agreements is that Peter's collection has been placed as follows:

1. The library of about 3,000 books has been given to the Halsway Manor Society as well as his collection of journals. These will, once catalogued and prepared, be added to the existing library and the whole will be known as the Kennedy Grant Memorial Library. The gift to Halsway Manor Society also includes Peter's collection of commercial recordings of folk music comprising c.3,000 78rpm records, 3,000 LPs, 500 CDs/DVDs, 50 HMV test pressings, and other items. HMS has also received a full set of the folktrax recordings issued by Peter Kennedy.

2. CAT, with David Kennedy, has worked with Tony Engle, head of Topic Records, and Dr Janet Topp-Fargion, curator of the World and Traditional Music Section of the British Library Sound Archive, to secure an agreement in respect of the archive of sound recordings. As a result of these discussions Topic Records has acquired the rights to the recordings and will be working towards releases of as much of the material as is commercially viable. This will obviously take some time but they hope that these releases will happen early in 2009 - Topic's 70th year. The British Library Sound Archive will house and protect the tapes and, in due course, they will be available for listening via the British Library procedures. As well as the recordings themselves, Peter's files and records form part of this archive and will provide valuable background information for the recordings that are issued and for future researchers.

3. A small collection of papers and photographs that came from Maud Karpeles' estate have been given by David Kennedy to the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library where the bulk of her papers are housed. Some other family artefacts and papers have also been presented to the VWML.

Peter's sales outlet, Folktrax, ceased trading on 30 September 2007 and the associated website was closed. Following requests from a number of people it is planned that, with the support of the Traditional Song Forum, a revised version of the website will be opened shortly as a source of information about Peter's work and as a permanent memorial to Peter and Beryl Kennedy. CAT will be wound up in the next few weeks.

Obviously, it will be some time before the new holders of the material will be able to make access to it available or to deal with more than very basic enquiries. In years to come, though, there will be a large quantity of new and interesting material from and about Peter Kennedy's collection that will enable future researchers to form their own views of this complex man and his work.

Martin Graebe (for Customs and Traditions) - October 2007


Transferred from new thread.


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 30 Oct 07 - 02:01 PM

Whatever the rights and wrongs of this tangled web, if I read the 'Musical Traditions' articles correctly, there would appear to be a 'shedload' of interesting and significant recordings coming our way in the next few years ("not before time" some might say!).


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Oct 07 - 05:26 PM

I believe he might have put out a cassette with something of mine on it, without permission. Great, I am delighted.At least someone was keeping some of the BBC's output somewhere, and not just deleting it all. Royalties: the sums involved in royalties of specialist things like field recordings are hardly ever going to reach the price of a pint. They'd be lucky to reach the price of a teabag. Frankly, I've got a lot of things to worry about, but the whereabouts of those royalties isn't one of them.What matters is that someone may put us in the way of hearing some remarkable music. For which treat, 18 dollars doesn't seem such a lot to me.It might be a lot if the records sold in millions, but most of this stuff would be very lucky to reach sales in double figures.


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 30 Oct 07 - 05:58 PM

With Tony Engle and Rod Stradling involved I can think of none better, both men are responsible for putting out excellent recordings and have a genuine love for the music.

Great news

Hoot.


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: GUEST,irishenglish
Date: 30 Oct 07 - 06:20 PM

Geoff Wallis, the average price of almost any CD in the U.S. right now is about 16-19 dollars. Not to even get involved in this debate, but that is the average price you would pay at a store. I wish it were otherwise, but ah well!


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 30 Oct 07 - 07:38 PM

This is the other item from Musical Traditions:

The Peter Kennedy Collection and Topic Records

As I hinted below, there was another piece of excellent news for lovers of traditional music due to be made public in 2007. Full details can be found on our Latest News page but, to my mind, the most important part is this:

    Topic Records has acquired the rights to the Peter Kennedy recordings and will be working towards releases of as much of the material as is commercially viable. This will obviously take some time but they hope that these releases will happen early in 2009 - Topic's 70th year.

My understanding is that Topic will be producing a Voice of the People, part 2 set, drawn mainly from the Peter Kennedy recordings. And if that's not exciting enough for you, I can also reveal that our own Musical Traditions Records will have access to the material not used for the new VotP set to produce a series of new CDs of the same type and to the same standards as our existing CD releases of traditional material.

After all the doom-laden predictions about the eventual fate of the Kennedy Collection, I think that this outcome has to be seen as the impossible dream come true. Profound thanks and congratulations to all concerned.

Rod Stradling - 30.10.07

----

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 03:45 AM

I was delighted to hear of the latest move in the Kennedy saga, but having slept on it, I wonder if anything will really change.
Remembering the pitifully small sales of recordings of traditional singers in the past (Robert Cinnamond, John Reilly, Mary Ann Carolan et al) and recalling some of the convoluted discussions on the relative merits of traditional and revival singers on these threads, I believe it is one thing to make available the recordings, but quite another for them to have any sort of impact in what happens in the clubs.
Topic Records is very much a different beast than it was under Jerry Sharp and Bert Lloyd,and even when Tony Engle held sway . The clue of this lies in the statement: "Topic Records has acquired the rights to the recordings and will be working towards releases of as much of the material as is commercially viable". Unless this material becomes 'commercially viable' all that will have happened is that it will have moved from one set of shelves to another.
Sorry to be the spectre at the feast.
It is good news that at last the recordings will go to a place where they will be archived properly and eventually (I hope) made widely available.
Good luck to all concerned.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: GUEST,redmax
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 06:16 AM

Is there any indication as to the sales of stuff like Voice of the People? I'd assume Topic produced at least 1000 of each.

Perhaps trad recordings are a little like All Bran: good for you, but a little hard for some people to swallow.


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 08:23 AM

Dick,
Does this have any effect on the agreement with CAMSCO?


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: GUEST,irishenglish
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 08:44 AM

Jim Carroll, the sales may be disappointing in the end, but is that really the point? I treasure my Voice of The People CD's as much as the rest of my collections of artists, and to have them released and available is I think a tremendous thing. Let's face it though, this is relatively speaking, a low sales category, and the people involved in this music are not raking it in anyway. If Topic wants to bring out another 20+ volumes of music, let them have it. I could also read "commercially viable" to mean, like VOTP,it will be packaged thematically,and in a nice overall product, which having worked in music retail, I can tell you does make a difference! If you have a hastily thrown CD art placed on good material, then it really doesn't sell, as opposed to choosing something that will catch your eye and make it appealing. I just think, yes of course it would be great for me to buy an entire albums worth of Johnny Doughty, or Mary Ann Carolan, etc, at any given time here in the U.S. But since that may not be possible, I'll gladly take what I can get, no arguments about it! Cheers!


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 08:59 AM

I'm a bit out of touch. Would some kind soul let me know if the films of Harry Cox Sam Larner Cyril Poacher and others are available on DVD commercialy? Are there many films of traditional singers available at all? I remember seeing films of Harry Cox and Sam Larner upstairs in the sound library at C# house, but to own a copy would be wonderful. Should I get excited or not?


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 03:45 PM

The Harry Cox and Sam Larner film was made by the BBC and produced by Charles Parker, so it's copyright to them. Much as I'd love to see a copy on everybody's DVD shelf, I can't imagine they'd ever bother releasing it. The Walter Pardon film was made by John Cohen and may be available from him.

Beyond that there's very little video material of traditional musicians and singers from Britain or Ireland, although RTÉ (I think) have released some rather stilted performances. I remember watching them a few years ago and getting very unexcited.

The situation is slightly better where US performers are concerned. Sebastapol, Stefan Grossman's enterprise has released a number of DVDs/videos of old timey musicians. Some of them were recorded at the Newport folk festival and some others are taken from a tv series which Pete Seeger presented back in the late '60s.

The End of an Old Song, John Cohen's film of singers from Big Laurel, North Carolina has recently been repackaged, along with a wonderful CD of the same singers called Dark Holler; Smithsonian Folkways.

Beyond that, no, there isn't an awful lot to get excited about. Personally, I'm still smarting at the appalling way the traditional singers were marginalised in Festival; Murray Lerner's film of Newport, which was shown on British tv a couple of weeks ago.


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 04:01 PM

CAMSCO, after a discussion with Topic, will continue to sell the Folktrax CDs. Topic is planning on coming out with a "best of" type of release in 2009; CAMSCO will attempt to keep providing the "rest of".

Just to clarify things, CAMSCO's selling price of $18 (US)is largely determined by licensing fees. At that it's a helluva lot less expensive than CDs are selling for in the UK, and a bit less than I have to charge for most imports. As far as raoyalties are concerned, if anyone feels that they're entitled to royalties on any of these CDs, they're invited to contact me at dick@camscomusic.com. (And, Geoff Wallis, this obviously includes families and estates of artists who were recorded.)

CAMSCO's releases are not remastered--solely because my original agreement with Mr. Kennedy expressly precluded any remastering or editing. I'm hoping that this restriction will be removed..I'll be discussing this with Tony Engels when he gets the whole matter sorted out.

CAMSCO has no interest in competing with Topic. I'm just interested in keeping the music available.


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 04:38 PM

I'd like to add that Dick is doing a great job of keeping the music available. At Old Songs this year, I purchase a couple of Folktrax CD's from Dick to use on my radio programs and they are terrific.   Sure, they might benefit from remastering - but the existing mixes are not offensive. In the meantime, Dick has done all of us a great service in making this music available and helping to expose new ears to the recordings - including mine! Thanks Dick!!


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: Geoff Wallis
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 06:15 PM

I think Fred might have forgotten the two excellent DVDs released by RTÉ featuring selections from its long-standing 'Come West Along the Road' TV series which draw upon RTÉ's vast output and seemingly well-kept archives as well as programmes from Ulster TV and other broadcasters. Certainly, some of the extracts featured in the programmes and DVDs, especially those from news and topical programmes, may seem 'stilted' and many wear their age (in terms of production values), but RTÉ has so far only tapped the top of the iceberg and there's apparently much more to come.

In answer to Dick's point, in anybody's terms $18 is a hell of a lot to ask for a CD-R copied from usually poorly recorded original material (and some of Kennedy's tapes actually feature the clicks from scratches on the vinyl discs from which he transferred them), with shoddily reproduced liner notes [if Dick has improved these in his own editions then I take my hat off to him and withdraw the comment].

I understand that Dick's prices were influenced by the ridiculous licensing fees which Kennedy would demand (and, before anyone starts, I know this from personal experience) and fully appreciate his desire to get good music and singing out there. However, I am absolutely confident that Topic will do a far better job than Kennedy in terms of production values, packaging and, above all, honesty in representing the enduring virtues of the singers and musicians which he recorded.

Though I know that Tony's surname has often been assumed to be that of Marx's major collaborator, it's actually Engle.


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 09:04 PM

At least here in the U.S., I have to vigorously disagree with your point, Geoff Wallis, on the $18 price tag for any of these recordings.

I don't know the ups and downs of where and how Kennedy obtained all of his material, how he recorded and transferred it, royalties paid or unpaid, etc, but I can say this - - we simply can't compare these recordings to anything that's recorded and marketed for commercial use. So much of what I've seen and heard from the Folktrax catalog over the years is akin to the field recordings we have sitting at the Library of Congress and numerous other repositories around the US. Sound quality is never a deal breaker in terms of the cultural value of the recordings, and it ain't gonna make anybody rich, even if you sold these things at $50 per CD, which I could make an argument for.

From where I sit, I say thank heavens that somebody was there recording when they were. This is rare and beautiful and valuable stuff on the whole.


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 09:07 PM

Just a couple of points. CD-Rs are only less expensive to produce than pressed CDs if you're talking about production runs under 1000 or so. There is NO difference whatsoever in the sound quality of the recordings. And, while there have been some reports of degradation with early CD-Rs, I haven't encountered any over the past couple of years. And all the CD-R's I produce carry a lifetime warranty.
      I, too, am sure that Topic can do a better (I'm not so sure about far better) job than I can; that's why I don't plan to duplicate anything that Topic releases. I'd like to point out, though, that CAMSCO has been making this music available (with proper packaging) for some four years now. Topic won't release anything until 2009.
    The sound quality of the FOLKTRAX recordings varies from pretty good (on the stuff that was recorded after, say, 1955 ) to absolutely dreadful, as on the James Madison Carpenter collection of sea songs, which were recorded on a Dictaphone back in the 1920s. The people that are interested in this early material don't expect good quality sound..and probably never would get it. Remastering really bad-quality
recordings tends to lose most of the original sound in an attempt to make it "clean"


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 04:11 AM

"Jim Carroll, the sales may be disappointing in the end, but is that really the point?"
I agree with you entirely about treasuring VOP and all the other albums of traditional singers, but unfortunately, the sales of albums is, I believe, a major factor in their production, and if they are not going to make a profit, or at the very least, cover the costs of production, they are not going to be released - simple as that.
I would welcome hearing that this is not the case.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 05:28 AM

well if they are not commercialy viable,if the owners of the recordings cared about passing on traditional music,.
allthey have to do is start a you tube account,put them up on youtube,and let people download them.-simple as that.
I have just put up three tracks from along deleted album,which features a beautiful concertina and clarinet duet,Iam not making a penny out of it,but I like sharing this music with others http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItcBocS_x_M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItcBocS_x_M


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: Vic Smith
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 06:28 AM

Dick,
I tried cutting and pasting the above link:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItcBocS_x_Mhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItcBocS_x_M
and it brought up the Youtube message "The url contained a malformed video id."
Then I looked it again and saw that, in fact, the link had been doubled. It should read:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItcBocS_x_M

That will get you through.


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 02:21 PM

Cap'n,
At last - something we completely agree on - let's cherish the moment.
I bet they don't though (pass it on for nowt that is).
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 05:59 PM


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 06:00 PM

Sorry about the above, slipped digit.


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 06:13 PM

The idea of "Commercially Viable" is a curious one. what's commercially viable to a small outfit like, say Folk Legacy or CAMSCO or Musical Traditions is probably not remotely viable for Topic. And what's viable for Topic would be nowhere near viable for a major company producing pop.
    It's easier to think about giving things away when they're someone else's things.


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 06:42 PM

I have just given away my own things[my own music].
It is of no use to anyone,gathering dust on a shelf.
It is in my opinion, particularly important that source singers and their recordings should be available to the public,Even more so as the revival scene is becoming more commercial,and day by day further,from its roots, the source singers.
If you let the roots of a tree die,pretty soon the rest of the tree,the leaves, branches, sap, dies.
cut the music away from the source,then the tradition dies.Dick Miles


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: johnadams
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 07:51 PM

Exactly Dick.

If it's got a commercial value it's not dying.

If it's not, then it can be used as stimulation for further creativity and should be freely available.

I guess the trick is in drawing the line between the two.

J


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Subject: RE: Peter Kennedy Collection
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 03:43 AM

'It's easier to think about giving things away when they're someone else's things.'
Dick (Greenhaus)
As far as I am concerned, they are not ours to hang on to.
We spent a great deal of time, energy and thought recording traditional singers on the basis that the songs, stories and music they had were important and we did not want to see them die. On the whole, they accepted this reason and gave them to us unconditionally. We archived them and wrote into our agreements that the material would be as accessible as possible. When we released anything 'commercially', any proceeds were donated to the archives/organisations concerned because (a) we felt that the material did not belong to us, so we did not feel that we should profit from it and (b) we did not wish to be perceived by our informants as people who were profiting from their time, effort and experience.
Our hope is that everything we have on our shelves will eventually be fully available to all (probably via the internet).
What has struck me over the time I have been involved in traditional music, has been the (often breathtaking) willingness to share, to help and to encourage. There have, of course, been exceptions to this, but I firmly believe that without this willingness to pass on, we would not have a tradition - to me, tradition means passing on. To claim ownership and to make our songs and music a commodity will destroy them.
Incidentally, it was in order to pass on the songs and music that Topic Records came into existence in the first place.
Jim Carroll
PS Once again I find myself in total agreement with the Cap'n.


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Subject: RE: Mudcat FAQ - Newcomer's Guide
From: halsway
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 07:02 AM

Halsway Manor, the national residential centre for traditional folk arts, seeks an energetic and experienced CEO to continue the development of its programme of folk music & dance events and to provide a first class service for guests

If you are looking for a challenging and highly rewarding post which includes:-

• developing, organising & promoting events,

• leading and managing staff

• collaborating with a diverse range of people

and would like to work in a delightful manor house set in the Quantocks, this could be for you.


For further details and information about Halsway Manor and the work we have been doing, please visit our website


www.halswaymanor.org.uk/jobs


or phone 01984 618274

Closing date 6th October 2010

Please follow the link below:-
Halsway Manor web site


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