a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross

Subject: RE: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 26 May 16 - 07:34 AM

It is a strange one as "toddle" would seem to be something other than "crawl" as obviously little kids become toddlers once they are walking. I've never in 50 odd years in Scotland heard toddle used to describe someone who's crawling. So you'd expect 'toddle' here to mean walk aimlessly or unsteadily. So Kevin's idea that it might be a worm as in a dragon like monster makes sense.

Subject: RE: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross
From: GUEST,Ebor Fiddler
Date: 25 May 16 - 07:51 PM

Could the "tree" refer to the gallows? This would make a dishonourable death preferable to kissing the lonely lady (who surely deserves a man with better manners, who treats those of the weaker sex that he meets with some consideration). He is quite simply an ill-mannered cad and deserves all he gets.

Chris B.

Subject: RE: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross
From: GUEST
Date: 25 May 16 - 02:34 PM

The Scots/English Worm or Wyrm is more like a dragon, with a long tail and relatively small legs. It could only toddle as it walked, trying to balance its huge body on those small legs. -Sadie Damascus

Subject: RE: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross
From: maeve
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 07:05 AM

"toddle has the meaning of crawl in this case "

Kevin has it. When I asked Lizzie about this meaning, as part of a conversation we were having concerning some of her versions of songs, she clearly indicated that crawl was the intended meaning here for her.

Subject: RE: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 05:17 AM

Having read some other versions of Alison Gross it seems that toddle round the tree is what happens when she turns him into a worm:

The DT version linked to above has the following

She's turned me into an ugly worm
And gard me toddle around the tree
And aye, on ilka Saturday night
My sister Maisry came to me

With silver basin and silver comb
To comb my head upon her knee
Before I had kissed her ugly mouth
I'd rather have toddled about the tree

and at the end

She changed me again to my ain proper shape
And I nae more maun toddle about the tree

So toddle has the meaning of crawl in this case I'd guess, although in general human terms the crawling stage precedes the toddling stage.

Subject: RE: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross
From: Roberto
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 05:00 AM

Are you sure, Kevin?

In this case, the verse "I'd raither toddle around the tree" could mean something like I'd rather court a tree than make love to you... It would make sense, but I'd like to be sure we are not forcing the original meaning.

Subject: RE: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 04:28 AM

Toddle also has a sexual connotation as in the song/music piece Tail Toddle which is in DT

Subject: RE: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross
From: Roberto
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 04:25 AM

Thank you, DMcG. R

Subject: RE: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 04:22 AM

While there is such a thing as red gold, I've always thought we are just talking about ordinary gold in this song.

Subject: RE: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross
From: Roberto
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 04:18 AM

By the way, what is "red gold"?

Also from the same recording by Lizzie Higgins:
"She showed me a cup o the guid red gowd".

R

Subject: RE: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 03:59 AM

While 'toddle' is almost always used for very young children, the Oxford English Dictionary says it is to walk with an unsteady gait as of a young child or aged person or invalid. So it could be claiming that to be infirm or near death would be preferable to kissing Alison.

Subject: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross
From: Roberto
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 03:38 AM

From Alison Gross (Child #35) sung by Lizzie Higgins, from "In Memory of Lizzie Higgins 1929-1993", Musical Traditions MTCD337-8.

Awa, awa, ye ugly witch,
Haud far awa an lat me be.
Afore I kiss your ugly mou
I'd raither toddle around the tree

I think the usual meaning of "toddle" is not fit to get the meaning of "I'd raither toddle around the tree" as something inconvenient or extremely difficult the singer is ready to do rather than kiss the witch. Any suggestion?

Thanks. R