BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: GUEST,clover
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 09:23 PM

The idea is to get it all out in the open and let people decide for themselves. You Bill, and a few others, are trying to suppress these discussions. That's not the way to find the truth, no matter how badly you might wish it was.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: GUEST, conspiracy arrow
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 09:04 PM

clover, there is now a thread devoted to conspiracy theory issues. The subject of this thread appears above.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 09:01 PM

you mean I accidently got post #300 without planning it? Must be a secret elf deleting other post to allow ME to do it! What else could it be! ;>)

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 08:58 PM

I attack ideas...not people. People who HAVE ideas I think are off-the-wall and who state those ideas as if they are revealed truth don't get a lot of respectful sharing of ideas from me, though.

I am willing to hear concrete evidence, but not 1 part vague & misleading data to 5 parts speculation.
As I have said, most of these conspiracy theories have precise, thought out, refutations by those in a position to sort rumor from wishful thinking.

You see the problem? If *I* am proven wrong, I will have to eat that egg on my face..(and I do NOT like eggs!)...but if no one proves all this "planned demolition" and "prior-to-the-time announcements" etc....then YOU can just keep claiming you are 'right' and that the proof has been hidden or someone is lying..etc. forever.

   Asking for more investigation is one thing...(even though there has to be a time to give up!)...but insisting that you have 'truth' and 'facts' based on subjective interpretation of spurious 'evidence' is quite another.
(I'm STILL shaking my head at those who claim that what hit the Pentagon was not a 757 airliner)

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: GUEST,clover
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 08:39 PM

I'm sure he is a fine person. But he doesn't seem to be able to discuss this subject without attacking the people whose views he doesn't like.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 08:35 PM

As far as egg on the face if eventually proven wrong is concerned, I don't know anyone who would not welcome a definitive answer. To have been wrong and to admit it can be two different things: Being wrong on occasion is the human experience; to admit it when proven wrong is the mark of a civilized human being.

See, that is one difference between a liberal and a rechter.

:)

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: Peace
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 07:04 PM

IMO, Bill D is one of the finest people on Mudcat despite that we disagree on more than a few things.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: GUEST,clover
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 03:26 PM

One day Bill you will be wearing quite a lot of egg on your face. I expect you will forget this conversation ever took place when that happens.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 03:15 PM

right.... Just THINK what that would require! The desire, planning, getting accomplices...and the difficulty of hiding it...so many would have to know! And the danger BEFORE triggering it.

from this blog

"Why do people believe things that aren't true? Mass delusions remind us of something counterintuitive: Bad information survives by building constituencies. You'd think that a crazy idea would have a tough time persuading lots of people that it's true, but crazy ideas find safety in numbers. It's hard for one person to believe something nutty, but easy for 20 people, and if several thousand people sign up for the idea, their group can probably get tax-exempt status."

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: Peace
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 02:45 PM

" The theory is that **FIREFIGHTERS** wired and blew that building, while it was ON FIRE, in a VERY short time"

That is one theory. Another is that the buildingS were pre-set to be 'pulled'.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 02:43 PM

But it is NOT clear exactly what Silverstein meant by his cryptic remark, and in 6 years, it has not been confirmed!!! The 'speculators' play the tape, then go on to make, ... ahem...'logical assumptions' about what that tape implies. An inordinate amount of weight is put on the word "pull". The theory is that **FIREFIGHTERS** wired and blew that building, while it was ON FIRE, in a VERY short time...while they had many other things to deal with. That would have taken LOTS of effort by many firefighters,(assuming they even HAD explosives), and yet I don't see any evidence that any of them have admitted to doing this.

Did Silverstein get money from insurance? Yeah...I guess so....does THAT prove he ordered demolition? Hardly...


(um...Dick Greenhaus...I heard it: expert...."ex" meaning 'has been" "spurt" meaning 'drip under pressure'.)

(yeah...I know...I said I wouldn't do any more of this....I'm TRYING...)

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: Peace
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 01:26 PM

"but at least you are not stating this stuff as 'fact'"

It IS fact that Silverstein said "pull the building".

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 12:40 PM

Bill-
In your eagerness to rely on the "experts" you forget the etymologu of the term:
"X" meaning an unknown quantity and "spurt" meaning a drip under pressure.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 12:28 PM

" No it appears to be you who chooses to speculate on the reasons for such imposed actions."

No I don't, you do. I simply read the implemented standards of this site and understand the requirements.

It is not a question of wanting more, it doesn't matter. If you choose to speculate, that is your choice.   If this site wishes to close threads that are on subjects they do not wish discussed, or seem to be based on fabricated conspiracy theories, that is their choice. If you aren't happy, you can start your own site.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 11:55 AM

?? Yes...the ***BUSH*** group of idiots obviously played fast & loose with some facts and was simply careless with others. That has little relation to what was claimed above. Being incompetent does not automatically mean intentionally criminal. We have evidence of who did what in those terrorist attacks...we have wild guesses and circumstantial speculation about a lot of side issues.

(Peace...I was not even thinking of your posts. You usually say you are 'only' asking for better answers. I might wish you were easier to reassure, but at least you are not stating this stuff as 'fact'.)

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: GUEST,clover
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 10:50 PM

Believe what you want to Bill. You can prove or disprove pretty much anything 'if you'd just read the right reports'. But it's been proven time and again that the United States has on many occassions created its own pretexts for going to war. The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are no exception.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 10:43 PM

We choose to speculate, that is our choice - or your choice.

No it appears to be you who chooses to speculate on the reasons for such imposed actions.

I would much rather be informed.

I suspect that other posters would prefer to be informed too.

They seem to have been deprived of that choice.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: Peace
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 10:00 PM

I am not taking conspiracy for granted. I ask simply for an explanation of Silverstein's remark which was on film with him saying they decided to 'pull' the building.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 09:59 PM

You are putting together erroneous ideas based on misinterpretation of confusing data and speculation by amateurs, rather than studying careful reports from experts who spent months working thru the timeline, physics and photographic evidence.


There seem to be NO tragedies in the last 40 years that aren't 2nd guessed by conspiracy theorists.

I've spent 3-4 years reading these, and EVERY one is disproven if you'd just read the right reports.

I've had it...I will no longer enter into debates with those take 'conspiracy' for granted and interpret every thing they see in twisted logic and with specious 'facts'

Have fun......................

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: GUEST,Peter Woodruff
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 09:58 PM

Those murdering bastards! Hang ALL of the war criminals!

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: Peace
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 09:48 PM

"Owner of building 7, Larry Silverstein, admits his building was intentionally pulled down, at his suggestion."

Explain THAT!

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: GUEST,clover
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 09:45 PM

She's standing in front of a window, Bill.


And then there this as well from the link in one of the threads what were closed. Time stamps on another report show that the report was broadcast about a half hour before building 7 fell.



BBC 24 REPORT IN-FOCUS

Time-Stamped BBC Broadcast Seals Media Foreknowledge of Building 7 Collapse and Use of Scripting

An alternate local BBC report-- which included a live time-stamp-- now positively establishes that BBC reported the collapse of WTC Building 7 at least 25-minutes prior to the actual collapse of the building.

The feed seen above (at top) reports at 21.54 London time that:

    News is continuing to come in as you can imagine. We're now being told that another enormous building in New York has collapsed. It is the 47-story Salomon Brothers building [better known as WTC Building 7] which was situated very close to the World Trade Center, right there in this financial capitol.

21.54-- 5 hours earlier in New York-- is 4:54 p.m., well before the actual collapse at 5:20 p.m.

This live feed did not show WTC 7 standing during the announcement, as it was showing B-roll of rescue workers on the ground.

The words used are very similar to the BBC report with Jane Standley, who also reported the WTC 7 collapse prematurely-- with the building visible in the live frame beyond the window. The latter coverage also included an explanation by the co-anchor that the building was not attacked, but, rather, was "weakened"-- perfectly in line with the official story even before the collapse took place.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 09:24 PM

"...Collapse of building 7 reported in the past tense before it actually happened..."

nonsense! That BBC reporter **SAYS** "It is now 8 hours since the attack.." The images over her shoulder were NOT always live while she was!

You see & hear what you want to...and you want to believe there was a conspiracy beyond the Muslims.

EVERY one of these theories has been disproven multiple times.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: Peace
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 09:05 PM

PS

If they do disappear and it wasn't Joe who made them do so, I'll re-post them, hot linked.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: Peace
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 09:01 PM

Beats me, Clover. However, I agree with what I said above. Send Joe a message or e-mail. I do know that I have contributed to various 'conspiracy' threads on Mudcat over the past few years. Most of them died natural deaths. I have no answer for you. But I think Joe will have. That's why I suggest you message him. If there is a clone doing the editing because of a 'personal' bias, Joe will deal with that. Notice that your links are here still. If they disappear, I think some people will be glad to see them go and others will want to know why. BTW, I non-hotlinked one of your site addresses on a thread and it seemed to remain. I can't locate the thread now, but I checked and it had stayed for two days and I think the thread just dropped off the page. Until you get an answer from the head of the 'cat threads, I see no point speculating.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: GUEST,clover
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 08:42 PM

This thread was started by a member on Thursday. So far, no response from anyone in the know.

http://help.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=3540&messages=13

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: Peace
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 08:30 PM

BTW, everything is not as it seems with the whole 9/11 thing. That is my opinion, and I don't give a rat's ass who does or doesn't like it. But I do not think your posts are being edited/closed/deleted by Offer. If they are, he will tell you why. So stop already with it on this thread and ask the question(s) where it'll do the most good for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: Peace
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 08:26 PM

Guest, cover, et al

The thread was closed, not deleted.

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=99489&messages=1

thread.cfm?threadid=99489&messages=1


E-mail Joe or message him and ask if someone was off censoring all on his/her own. If so, he'll reinstate the thread. Consistent posting under many names just gives the people who LOVE to edit others an excuse to do so. There are a few clones who have been very vocal about their dislike of conspiracy theories and people who perhaps agree with them. They have the edit buttons and they use those buttons for themselves and sometimes on behalf of their friends. Others follow policy. Find out why your threads are closed or deleted. You sure as hell won't find out here. Message Joe Offer or e-mail him.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: Alba
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 08:21 PM

Instead of looking for a response in the BS section of a Music Forum to these facts may I suggest that it may be prudent to send them to an appropriate place were perhaps someone with the proper authority may wish to start an investigation, somewhere like here Blue Clicky for example.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: GUEST,cover
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 08:08 PM

For your consideration, Ron Olesko. Here is the 'rest of the story'.


'The narrator claims that he "later learned" that there had been an explosion caused by fuel pouring down an elevator shaft, but the lobby shows none of the soot or fuel residue we would expect from such an explosion. Instead we see blown-out windows and a fine dry dust covering the entire lobby, very much the signature of high explosives. Similar damage to the parking garages and subbasements can only be explained by pre-placed explosive charges that were detonated at the moment of the plane's impact.'

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: GUEST,clover
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 07:50 PM

Owner of building 7, Larry Silverstein, admits his building was intentionally pulled down, at his suggestion.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0scE7bQWdk

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: GUEST,clover
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 07:46 PM

This is what they are trying to hide


Collapse of building 7 reported in the past tense before it actually happened

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: GUEST,clover
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 07:39 PM

'BTW, why should a thread that is closed be retitled? Makes no sense at all.'


It was closed to get it off the front page, and the name was changed to make it difficult to find in a search. The other thread on this subject was combined with another thread by a different name, and that one was closed, for exactly the same reasons. They don't want you to know about this piece of news, so they are suppressing it.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: GUEST,CTADP
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 06:03 PM

So why is a paying guest not posting under a real name? In other words, why should anyone beluieve you?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: GUEST,Paying Guest
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 05:42 PM

You only get what you pay for in this life. How much you put into the MudKitty Shambles?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 03:25 PM

"if whoever imposed their judgement were to make themselves known and the reasons for their actions clear in editing comments - none of us would need to speculate - would we?"

So what?   We choose to speculate, that is our choice - or your choice. No explantions required based on the published information about this site in the FAQ's. Whoever imposes their judgement is not necessary.

I'd love to see my local pizzeria to serve Sicilian style, but they choose not to make it. I order from the menu or take my business elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 06:39 AM

From the title of the post - the original title for that thread would appear to have been - BS: 9/11 Smoking Guns

Quite why it would be retitled before closure was imposed on the thread is yet another needless mystery to add to the collection.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 06:35 AM

That is why threads like that are closed

Possibly, but if whoever imposed their judgement were to make themselves known and the reasons for their actions clear in editing comments - none of us would need to speculate - would we?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 08:27 PM

Sorry Donuel, you aren't telling the whole story - just enough to keep the theory alive.   The people in the basement went on to say tha the explosions were caused by the jet fuel pouring down the elevators. That is why threads like that are closed. Perhaps this one will finally be closed as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: GUEST, IPdrifter
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 07:55 PM

I'm learning that using a text editor, then moving text to the comment form, is something I should do when commenting. The text can be saved, which allows other efforts to post the comment if access is blocked. If the post or the thread gets deleted, the poster can know what he said, provided the post is saved. Tech-savvy folks already know all about such methods, I'm sure. Some of us were rather innocent and trusting upon our arrival here.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 12:24 PM

btw

regarding a closed thread...

I saw the filmed interview of the 2 guys in the WTC sub basement that claim there was a huge explosion in the sub basement before any airliner impact.

They were not perfect witnesses. The US mainstream find it easy to dispel claims by non whites without advanced college degrees.
It makes me wonder why white people would belive jesus.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 10:07 AM

"why should a thread that is closed be retitled? "

Perhaps to enable a search for it by correct spelling?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 08:43 AM

I agree.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: Wolfgang
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 07:59 AM

Web Censoership has been closed by persons unknown and for reasons unknown and also appears to have been re-titled..................

Retitled?
Do you mean to say that the original title was "Web Censoership"?
BTW, why should a thread that is closed be retitled? Makes no sense at all.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 07:28 AM

Web Censoership has been closed by persons unknown and for reasons unknown and also appears to have been re-titled..................

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 12:41 PM

An entire thread that was refreshed, and which earlier today I posted to - titled something like 'Thank you to Joe Clones' - seems to have been 'silently deleted' by persons unknown and for reasons unknown.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 10:28 AM

Public Services Ombudsman

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 02:13 PM

Perhaps you would accept that no-one else was confused and that you just chose to pretend that you were to make a point?

As more posters than just me were confused - this perfectly demonstrates that it is confusing when posts remain in threads, that are responding to posts that have been silently deleted.

A simple resolution would be either the leave all the posts alone or if they really must be deleted - to always indicate and explain in an editing comment that a post had been deleted.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 10:13 AM

Perhaps you ought to check out the Ombudsman thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (3)
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 05:23 AM

"Perhaps you would accept that the all resulting comfusion could have been avoided if reference had been made to the fact that the post that had refreshed the thread and which you were responding to had been deleted and that this form of 'silent deletion' by persons unknown is couter productive?"

What confusion? Perhaps you would accept that no-one else was confused and that you just chose to pretend that you were to make a point? Perhaps you would accept that you've been told many times that it's counter productive to comment on each and every editting action? Perhaps you would accept that the moderators aren't going to give in to your demands unless instructed to by Max?