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Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs

20 Mar 99 - 02:58 PM
The Shambles 20 Mar 99 - 03:32 PM
Margo 20 Mar 99 - 04:50 PM
catspaw49 20 Mar 99 - 05:21 PM
MAG (inactive) 20 Mar 99 - 05:51 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 20 Mar 99 - 06:00 PM
Dr John 20 Mar 99 - 06:34 PM
Sam 21 Mar 99 - 02:32 PM
Mike Billo 21 Mar 99 - 04:59 PM
Den 21 Mar 99 - 05:04 PM
rich r 21 Mar 99 - 05:47 PM
RWilhelm 21 Mar 99 - 05:51 PM
catspaw49 21 Mar 99 - 05:59 PM
rich r 21 Mar 99 - 06:12 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 21 Mar 99 - 06:46 PM
McMusic 21 Mar 99 - 08:41 PM
Arkie 21 Mar 99 - 11:08 PM
Ronn 21 Mar 99 - 11:55 PM
alison 22 Mar 99 - 12:23 AM
Bob Jovi 22 Mar 99 - 12:45 AM
McMusic 22 Mar 99 - 03:14 AM
KingBrilliant 22 Mar 99 - 05:08 AM
AlistairUK 22 Mar 99 - 05:16 AM
The Shambles 22 Mar 99 - 08:26 AM
AlistairUK 22 Mar 99 - 08:33 AM
22 Mar 99 - 10:51 AM
AlistairUK 22 Mar 99 - 11:32 AM
marlor 22 Mar 99 - 11:35 AM
marlor 22 Mar 99 - 11:42 AM
marlor 22 Mar 99 - 11:47 AM
Dr John 22 Mar 99 - 01:28 PM
Steve Latimer 22 Mar 99 - 02:07 PM
katlaughing 22 Mar 99 - 02:17 PM
Bob Jovi 22 Mar 99 - 02:29 PM
AlistairUK 22 Mar 99 - 03:30 PM
Pete M 22 Mar 99 - 03:47 PM
Dr John 22 Mar 99 - 04:08 PM
Steve Latimer 22 Mar 99 - 04:13 PM
AlistairUK 22 Mar 99 - 04:39 PM
katlaughing 22 Mar 99 - 04:43 PM
22 Mar 99 - 04:50 PM
AlistairUK 22 Mar 99 - 04:50 PM
Steve Latimer 22 Mar 99 - 04:56 PM
AlistairUK 22 Mar 99 - 05:09 PM
Steve Latimer 22 Mar 99 - 05:44 PM
AlistairUK 22 Mar 99 - 05:48 PM
Ronn 23 Mar 99 - 12:17 AM
Bob Jovi 23 Mar 99 - 12:24 AM
23 Mar 99 - 01:00 AM
AlistairUK 23 Mar 99 - 05:25 AM
katlaughing 23 Mar 99 - 07:10 AM
katlaughing 23 Mar 99 - 07:17 AM
Jaxon 23 Mar 99 - 08:35 AM
RWilhelm 23 Mar 99 - 09:37 AM
Steve Latimer 23 Mar 99 - 10:06 AM
steve in ottawa 24 Mar 99 - 04:15 AM
RWilhelm 25 Mar 99 - 09:26 AM
AlistairUK 25 Mar 99 - 11:39 AM
To Earl 25 Mar 99 - 01:19 PM
Dr John 25 Mar 99 - 05:15 PM
Lucius 25 Mar 99 - 09:56 PM
DonMeixner 25 Mar 99 - 10:24 PM
Susan A-R 25 Mar 99 - 10:54 PM
katlaughing 26 Mar 99 - 12:03 AM
McMusic 26 Mar 99 - 02:27 AM
Sean MacRuaraidh 26 Mar 99 - 08:22 AM
RWilhelm 26 Mar 99 - 08:38 AM
Steve Latimer 26 Mar 99 - 11:49 AM
AlistairUK 26 Mar 99 - 01:05 PM
tomtom 26 Mar 99 - 01:56 PM
Steve Latimer 26 Mar 99 - 02:09 PM
The Shambles 26 Mar 99 - 02:18 PM
AlistairUK 26 Mar 99 - 03:17 PM
Helen 27 Mar 99 - 12:15 AM
McMusic 27 Mar 99 - 02:35 AM
Dr John 27 Mar 99 - 04:36 AM
catspaw49 27 Mar 99 - 06:32 AM
O'Hanrahan 27 Mar 99 - 11:00 AM
Lucius 27 Mar 99 - 04:56 PM
Helen 27 Mar 99 - 07:14 PM
catspaw49 27 Mar 99 - 11:34 PM
steve in ottawa 28 Mar 99 - 11:42 AM
RWilhelm 28 Mar 99 - 11:45 AM
McMusic 29 Mar 99 - 01:13 AM
Lonesome EJ 29 Mar 99 - 01:21 AM
Helen 29 Mar 99 - 01:50 AM
Earl 29 Mar 99 - 07:53 AM
AlistairUK 29 Mar 99 - 08:03 AM
o'hanrahan 29 Mar 99 - 10:05 AM
Steve Latimer 29 Mar 99 - 12:11 PM
The Shambles 29 Mar 99 - 02:07 PM
katlaughing 29 Mar 99 - 02:10 PM
AlistairUK 29 Mar 99 - 02:12 PM
Dr John 29 Mar 99 - 02:12 PM
AlistairUK 29 Mar 99 - 02:17 PM
The Shambles 29 Mar 99 - 02:50 PM
AlistairUK 29 Mar 99 - 03:13 PM
Dr John 29 Mar 99 - 03:28 PM
Bert 29 Mar 99 - 03:34 PM
Steve Latimer 29 Mar 99 - 03:44 PM
AlistairUK 29 Mar 99 - 03:51 PM
Ronn 29 Mar 99 - 11:52 PM
catspaw49 30 Mar 99 - 01:17 AM
ddw in windsor 30 Mar 99 - 01:26 AM
The Shambles 30 Mar 99 - 01:53 AM
Sean MacRuaraidh 30 Mar 99 - 05:01 AM
AlistairUK 30 Mar 99 - 06:11 AM
The Shambles 30 Mar 99 - 09:43 AM
AlistairUK 30 Mar 99 - 10:53 AM
John Galt 30 Mar 99 - 11:21 AM
Dr John 30 Mar 99 - 11:59 AM
Pete M 30 Mar 99 - 05:23 PM
The Shambles 30 Mar 99 - 06:25 PM
catspaw49 30 Mar 99 - 07:22 PM
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Subject: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From:
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 02:58 PM

Lately I have seen several mentions about James Taylor. I know I'll catch hell for this, but I can think of absolutely no reason for him to have been given recording contracts, let alone having achieved any sort of popularity. He turned some great rock tunes (e.g. Handyman)into dirges, and he has a vocal range from A to (maybe) B. I'm proud to say no, repeat no, JT, graces my record collections. I'm taking on all comers here...or maybe you have your own extremely orverated performer---John (not jon)


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 03:32 PM

This is a good subject, though I like James Taylor myself. We all know of wonderful performers who deserve to be better known (and paid) and it is indeed a little annoying to see some performers praised way above their talents.

My nomination for one of these'sacred cows', at the risk of being shot down in flames, is Christy Moore.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Margo
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 04:50 PM

I might be alone here, but I never really liked rock and roll. I like lyric singing of songs with good enough diction to where you can understand the words. No wonder there are so many "Mondegreens" : It is hard to understand rock and roll.

James Taylor has never rated high on my list either.

Margarita


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 05:21 PM

Yes John, you may have noticed a few of mine where I suggest you can sing "Fire and Rain" to ANY JT song. Works more often than not, but I still can enjoy a little more of him than you can!!!

There is for me my favorite whipping boy, Neil Young. The dude has just reached the point of complete weirdness to the nth degree. Happily and hopefully he is safely ensconced at the "Neil Young Center for the Terminally Screwed" in Montana. Katlaughing craftily discovered that the supposed radioactive waste being transported to Montana is in fact tiples. This adds up since the Neil Young Center is run by the CIA and is in the process of training crazed tiple bands to be used in place of killing squads in a plot for world domination and National takeover by that agency. Cletus is also there and that is obviously the one who triggered the certain knowledge that the CIA was planning to takeover the US government here too, as the only song he knows is the Oscar Mayer wiener song. Therefore his tiple band could be used to totally discredit Libby Dole. Bob Dole could be cured of his E.D. that he talks about on his commercial by a crazed tiple band playing the Oscar Mayer ditty. Unfortunately his resultant actions, mainly running through Rock Creek Park without pants and screaming "I got Wood...It's a Woody" would create such a stir on the evening news that Libby would be totally discredited. Other candidates and political figures can be placed at risk in a similar way. Clete's buddy 'Paw, distressed after Cletus' committment from watching 3 days of hamsterdance, is no longer wandering the wastewater plant mumbling something about pants pressers, but has met up with Fielding's brothers (Reg, Reg, and Reg) and are headed for Montana. Please watch out for them along the way as they might try their hands at fly fishing and in the case of all these boys, far more than their bamboo rods is split!!! If they arrive at the Young Center, they could be formed into another crazed tiple band to do away with Al Gore. 'Paw could teach this group "Rocky Top" and the sound of their beloved song on a tiple at a Gore rally would cause Tennesseans to rise up and slay the current V.P.

Oh gawd.....even I can't take it. There must be stuff from 20 threads in the above paragraph!!! I gotta' get off and call the airlines. I think I need a ticket to Montana..........send help..

catspaw


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 05:51 PM

My nomination for someone who deserves to be better known than JT is his brother, Livingston, composer of "I don't want to mow the lawn."

"Fire and Rain" still brings a lump to my throat, but that may be because the subject has played a role in my life.

I do have to second Neil young's nomination; always thought he had a voice like a chipmunk, God bless him. He's got to have some kind of crowd control skill to pull off the hype, you must admit.

Mary Ann


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 06:00 PM

We worry about such things, when hip hop is to be heard blasting from every car stereo.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Dr John
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 06:34 PM

The Beatles - I grew up in Liverpool, and they were everywhere, records, books, photos,magazines, cardboard cutouts, silly suits and haircuts. All the songs were love me this or she loves you that but you couldn't hear them anyway because of screaming girls. Nobody has been hyped as much until the spice girls, but at least I can watch them on tv with the sound turned off.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Sam
Date: 21 Mar 99 - 02:32 PM

I think that some of the best performers are those who tend not to be taken seriously when in fact they have probably inputted more ideas then the performers who just keep flooting on a happy medium with their audience, making no attempt to challenge their ears. By challenegeing you audiences ears you are often educating them by showing them the other things that exist in the world. An example may be Paul Simons Gracelands Cd in which he educated many people to the sounds of cajun and african singing. If our ears are not challenged we would end up listening to supermarket music.

Bye, Sam


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Mike Billo
Date: 21 Mar 99 - 04:59 PM

Neil Young tops my list too(that was a terrrific rant catspaw), but in a solid second place is Van Morrison. He cant sing, he can't compose,he can't play an instrument to speak of,and his blackface minstrel vocal inflections although very nasal, or at least always out of tune. And his "musical career" has been going strong for over 30 years!! He makes James Taylor seem a musical genius by comparison.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Den
Date: 21 Mar 99 - 05:04 PM

I'm taking this as a jibe to get us going here Shambles. You can't touch Christy. He is a national institution one of the most important singer/songwriters to come out of Ireland ever. Now that he has officially retired who will fill that void. How about Foster and Allen. "nough said.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: rich r
Date: 21 Mar 99 - 05:47 PM

catspaw, I came periously close to falling into the hampsterdance trance myself. After only 5 minutes I realized that those cute little fuzzies were really a powerful hyponotic probably issuing either from deep within the CIA or from the Chinese to lull us into thinking that they really do have missles that work. It took a supreme effort to extract myself from theri grasp. And that tune! Is it traditional? Are their words? I need words.

rich r


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: RWilhelm
Date: 21 Mar 99 - 05:51 PM

This is great. I go to a lot of open-mikes and it's amazing to hear people in their twenties pull out these completely spent Taylor/Young/Morrison songs. Now, to raise the ante, I could die happy if I never heard "Mary Ellen Carter" again.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Mar 99 - 05:59 PM

Another good selection there Mike!!! And thanks to all for the comments. And rich...good question??? The tune is Roger Miller used in Disney's animated Robin Hood but the only words I know are

"TA ka dee do dop, ta ka dee do dop
Ta ka wom ba soo dee doo

etc.

So how the hell do you post for lyrics???

LYRICS REQ: Ta ka dee do dop

or

LYRICS REQ: HAMSTERDANCE

catspaw


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: rich r
Date: 21 Mar 99 - 06:12 PM

You mean it's the same tune the rooster struts to? No wonder it slid into my brain so easily. It should have been used more in the film (along with more verses to "Oo-da-lolly"). Of couse you left out the maniacal giggle. Me thinks that if a lyric request for "Ta ka dee do bop" were posted, someone one would suggest that what was really being sought was "zip a dee do dah" and next thing you know the thread would be mired in a tar baby.

rich r


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 21 Mar 99 - 06:46 PM

The only version of Mary Ellen Carter that I like is the original on Between The Breaks Live. I've never heard a cover of a Stan Rogers song, live or recorded, that was as good as the original. (I detest the two "Tribute" CD's -- gave them both away, in fact.) I think that it is because so many of the people who cover him have such whiny whingey voices, and he had a deep booming voice.

But you're right. The pub acts always seem to cover that one, and Barrett's Privateers.

James Taylor seems to be a favourite with street buskers. I don't consider him a folk singer. More soft pop, and if we are going to get into that realm then the list of annoying artists is a long one. Fire and Rain isn't a bad song, though, nor is the one about going to Carolina. Just played too much.

We are agreed on Neil Young. I have a friend who worships him and it is torture to my ears to listen to any of Young's recordings.

An act I could never stomach was the Clancys, but I realize that I am in the minority there. The Clancys have a lot to answer for, because it was them who inspired the singing of such songs in pubs.

Nor have I ever liked Great Big Sea.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: McMusic
Date: 21 Mar 99 - 08:41 PM

Almost anything that passes for rock these days--esp. the strupy, cliche-ridden works of "art" produced by people like Babyface; will add 99.99999% of rap, most MODERN Country-Western (everything sound like the same song sung by the same person), and such delightful tunes like "Don't Worry; Be Happy" (how many Grammys did that thing win?), "Rubber Ducky", "Feelings"..... God! I'm starting to rave!!! I'm also getting tired Of Alanis Morrisette and Jewel. Morrisette changes the words and the tunes, but so much of the subject matter seems to be a rehash of her last song--and I'm really kinda bored with Jewel's breathlessness. Maybe I'm wrong?


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Arkie
Date: 21 Mar 99 - 11:08 PM

Do any of jewel's and morrisette's offerings have tunes? Maybe I haven't listened enough.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Ronn
Date: 21 Mar 99 - 11:55 PM

Cat Stevens. Rod McKuen. John Tesh. Yanni. Tracy Chapman. Most of the current "swing" bands. Every recording ever made of "Fire and Rain", "So Far Away", "You've Got A Friend", "Helpless", "Old Man", "Dust In The Wind", almost all Christmas novelty songs, especially "Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer", "Heart Of Gold", any song that uses "4" instead of "for" or "U" instead of "you".


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: alison
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 12:23 AM

Hi,

so that's where the hamster tune came from.. I knew I had heard it before.. must get the kids to watch Robin Hood tonight.

put my vote in for Foster and Allen, and the Furey's.... and Daniel O'Donnell.....

Slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Bob Jovi
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 12:45 AM

Has to be Neil Young, all the more embarrasing to me considering the number of his tunes that were once a staple of my rep. Hard to say which is more annoying, his singing or his guitar playing.

But James Taylor?? This is the guy that Miles Davis says "he sings like a blind man". Granted, he's been recycling for years, but at least he had his moments. Why not go after someone like Jewel? Does she really think that she is a folkie, or has talent?


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: McMusic
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 03:14 AM

Would like to add to my previous list--any and all versions of "When Irish Eyes Are Smiling", "Mother Macree" and "MacNamara's Band".


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 05:08 AM

Oi, just leave Van Morrisson out of it. The man is an intermittent genius.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 05:16 AM

Oh my what a wonderful thread!

The Beatles (total shit) John Lennon (utter shit) Paul McCartney (Pathetic shit) Ringo Starr (forgettable shit) The Stones stopped doing anything decent from about 1969 until the present day. Tom Waits only ever made two really good albums Heart of Saturday Night and the other one the name I forget at the moment...after that he went pseudo Captain Beefheart(who is crap shit anyway) Anything by Bon Jovi.

my God! I could be here forever...

The stone Roses (pretentious shit) Fairport (after Sandy Denny) Pink Floyd (after Sid Barret)

I have to stop


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 08:26 AM

Sam said. I think that some of the best performers are those who tend not to be taken seriously when in fact they have probably inputted more ideas then the performers who just keep floating on a happy medium with their audience, making no attempt to challenge their ears.

Well said indeed. I think a good example of this is Robin Williamson, ex Incredible String Band. Since the demise of the group, who I used to see fill venues like The Royal Festival and the Royal Albert Halls, I have seen him solo, performing in some rather smaller and less well attended places. This is due to no lessening of his talent, more to the fact that he always had the courage to attempt new things and in truth they didn't and still don't always come off. To his eternal credit he continues to try new things and not take the easy option..

The band were always viewed a little suspiciously by the 'folk' establishment and never found great acceptance there, except significantly by other performers. We do seem to have a tendency like our music to be safe and familiar, don't we?

This seems very strange in his case as now he clearly represents the modern day equivalent of the travelling harper, storyteller, minstrel, and troubadour. At a time when we seem to look back and value this stereotype so much, it seems strange to me that we do not recognise this great original talent and continue to over praise less adventurous individuals.

On another point, I feel sadly that if Robin Williamson, like poor Nick Drake had died young and we could neatly parcel him up and label him, he would have reached god-like status now. As it is, he and others continue to produce more wonderful and challenging music than Nick Drake, Tim Buckley and others ever produced in their short, but seemingly more valued careers. It appears that by continuing to try new things, they make it difficult for us to appreciate their true worth in their lifetimes. In this respect, It would seem that "the young die good".


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 08:33 AM

Shambles...this is true, I saw Robin at one of my last folk gigs in Northampton(UK) about 7 years ago when he was (I think) just starting on his storytelling, troubadour schtick. He was brilliant..I had only ever heard his Glint in The Kindling album and never did get around to listening to the ISB when I was at home.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From:
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 10:51 AM

ANY irish band -can't wait for this fad in BAD music to be over!


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 11:32 AM

I see you remained anonymous obviously don't have the courage of your convictions.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: marlor
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 11:35 AM

Hi Margarita: No, you're not alone. I' not nuts about Rock 'n Roll either. I prefer a good ballad with, as you say, words one can understand. could someone tell me what was so great about Ernest tubb? Flame if you must, but I dont' like the guy.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: marlor
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 11:42 AM

Hi tim" Maybe you can file this under the "you-know-you're-getting-when" file. I dont' care for aht kind of"music." It's a good example of a colossal wasteot tape.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: marlor
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 11:47 AM

Have to disagree here. I like Van Morrisson. "Moondance" is a particular fave. To each their own.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Dr John
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 01:28 PM

Well said AlistairUK! From what I've read I guess it's hype, overexposure or overadulation that turns us off rather than the artist themselves.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 02:07 PM

Some interesting comments here. The Beatles? Van Morrison? And those Neil Young comments, here in Canada slurring Neil is one of the few things that can get you poked in the nose.

It's a little off track, but in the late seventies I was given a copy of the biggest waste of vinyl ever. Lou Reed must have owed an album to his record company when he released "Metal Machine Music". This classic was a double LP with the fourth side blank. Sides 1-3 were identical in length, only because they were identical in content. Each side was approximately 18 1/2 minutes of feedback with someone (a really wasted Lou?) slowly turning knobs to change the tone and pitch. The album cover listed all equipment that was on the record. There was not one insrument listed, only a collection of mixers, amps etc.

Regardless of your musical taste, I believe in credit where credit is due. I can't imagine anything being a bigger waste of vinyl, Spice Girls included.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 02:17 PM

anything done by John Cage, Hindemith, et alia of the avant garde, so-called serious music genre!


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Bob Jovi
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 02:29 PM

I remember Metal Machine Music, in fact I enjoyed it, as far as ambient sound goes. I believe that there were four sides to the album, each with the running time printed on the label. The fourth side had ethe symbol for infinity, and the final track was "locked". That is the final groove was recorded to be endlessly repeated. I considered it a signifigant loss when a friend used it for a lampshade.

About the same time, Johnny Winter released a pretty good album (with an excelent cover of Highway 61) that was recorded on three sides only. I believe the title was "Second Winter".

I'm wondering, James Taylor, Beatles, Van Morrison. Not folk or blues, but by most peoples estimations, not trash either. Are mudcatters truly this far removed from the mainstream, or is it a need to shock? Does anyone despise the Smithsonian field recordings or anything from Folkway Records?

And AlistairUK, I was shocked to hear you mention my brother.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 03:30 PM

I actually bought Metal Machine music on reissue *duh* didn't he just set up the feedback loop, walk out and lock the studio and go for a beer?


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Pete M
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 03:47 PM

In addition to most of the above, Clannad and bloody whatsername Enya. Oh hell go for broke, anything marketed as "celtic".

Pete M


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Dr John
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 04:08 PM

This thread is the best laugh I've had all day. The S/F field recordings! Some may not be musically that great in the strictest sense but they are all of interest in one way or another. But at least they are honest and there is no hype. What's wrong with being outside the mainstream anyway. I think Bob Dylan is pretty grim too but then I'm an ardent Guthrie fan.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 04:13 PM

Bob, you must have had access to a very good pharmacist if you enjoyed Metal Machine Music. I'd love to see the lampshade. I seem to recall the loop feature.

I also owned (and enjoyed) Second Winter. Does this make us the only people to own the entire three sided album collection? I often though that The Beatles White Album should have been three sided as I felt that there was enough good material for three sides and they could have done away with Reveolution #9 etc. I'm sorry, did you enjoy that as ambient sound too?

I am surprised at the number of people taking broad shots at The Beatles, James Taylor, Van Morrison, Neil Young etc. I liked a lot of material from all of them. To dismiss it all is mistake.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 04:39 PM

well the Beatles were really taking the piss with Obladi Obladah on that album. Mind you anything by them is bloody tedious anyway. plus Martin Carthy really gets on my tits sometimes.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 04:43 PM

Nobody better take MY Beatles away! Their music defines a whole era for me. My first "boyfriend" in 7th grade gave me a 45 of "I wanna hold your hand", which at the time I hated. We broke up really fast! Still have the 45 though.

I love their later stuff, esp. Rocky Raccoon, Blackbird, etc.

I have a girlfriend I hesitate to visit much at her house because she is always blasting Van Morrison at full volume!

How 'bout the Chipmunks, guys!? Hate 'em or love 'em?! Hehehe


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From:
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 04:50 PM


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 04:50 PM

Hey me and a bottle of helium, i do the chipmunks at parties.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 04:56 PM

Katlaughing

The Chipmunks couldn't hold a candle to the Archies, the Banana Splits are the most underated band of the era.

Seriously, why has Tiny Tim been missed in this thread?


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 05:09 PM

Nah the Bubbaloos they were cool...as was Hr Puffinstuff.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 05:44 PM

What about Rockin' Freddie Flintsone doing "Listen to the Mockingbird?" A classic. And what was the name of the band on Get Smart who did Thrill, Thrill, Thrill, Kill, Kill, Kill? The Electric Cows or something. Were they an influence on Black Sabbath and Marilyn Manson?

Alistair, I think we're starting to take this thread down the wrong road.

steve


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 05:48 PM

Oh No we're not

Spider man Spider Man

Does whatever a spider can.

Spins a web any size

Catches thieves just like flies

Look out here comes the Spider man

In the still of night

At the scene of a crime

Like a streak Of light he arrives just in time

Spider man Spider man

friendly neighbourhood Spider Man

Is he strong?

Listen Bud,

He's got radioactive blood

Look out there goes the Spider Maaaaaan.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Ronn
Date: 23 Mar 99 - 12:17 AM

In the giving credit where it's due dept: I have disliked James Taylor intensly ever since hearing "Carolina On My Mind" the very first time. But his version of "It's Only A Paper Moon" from the soundtrack of "A League Of Their Own", and "Second Star To The Right" from the "Stay Awake" collection are bith quite good.

And say what you will about Tiny Tim's recorded legacy, I have never met anyone with a greater knowledge of American Popular Song from 1890-1920.

I still cant find anything positive to say about Neil Young's music though.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Bob Jovi
Date: 23 Mar 99 - 12:24 AM

Hey katlaughing, Whats the deal on dissing John Cage, or worse yet, lumping him in with Hindimith. Next you'll be dumping on Ruth Crawford-Seegar, and pissing off her children (you know who).


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From:
Date: 23 Mar 99 - 01:00 AM

I'd rather listen to the spice girls on the wrong speed AND the Chipmunks than any Celtic Crap---actually any music on a tv comercial is better -- oh hell the white noise after the staion has gone off the air is better than any Celtic band/song recorded!


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 23 Mar 99 - 05:25 AM

See you did it again. If you are not willing to put a name to yourself then your comments hold no weight. And it just goes to show sort of person you are if you would rather listen to the spice girls. I think you are still throwing the baby out with the bathwater here.Plus celtic band would mean 99 persent of the best ones that existed ( Bothy Band, Planxty, Moving Hearts etc.)


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Mar 99 - 07:10 AM

I LIKE a lot of the so-called Celtic stuff. Some of it hits directly at my heart, in a good way, and I often use it for better moods, feelings, etc.

Bob Jovi: can't stand Cage's stuff or Hindimith. I am of the frim belief, through my brother's research, writing, and music, that people who compose any music and present it tot he public have a moral obligation to be aware of the deletrious effect the vibrational tones can have on people. As my brother, a classical composer, wrote in one of his articles on this (well-researched and written long BEFORE the "new age" jumped on the bandwagon), "Music is a Planetary Modifierc". Even ancient civilizations were aware of this and mandated certain tunings each year in order to keep their contry, land etc. as "harmonious" as possible.

In my estimation Cage et al haven't a clue and no regard for what music can do. ***smile***

katlaughing


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Mar 99 - 07:17 AM

Aaarrrggghhhhh! That is supposed to be a copyright symbol next to my bro's quote!


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Jaxon
Date: 23 Mar 99 - 08:35 AM

I've never heard a "new" James Taylor release that I didn't feel I had heard before. He sounds like he needs to be slapped to stop his whining.
Jack Murray


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: RWilhelm
Date: 23 Mar 99 - 09:37 AM

I just want to add Jimmie Buffet and Couger Mellencamp to the overrated, overexposed and redundant list.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 23 Mar 99 - 10:06 AM

Earl,

Thanks for reminding me about Mellancamp, mediocre at his very best. I have the Bob Dylan 30th Anniversary Concert CD. He shouldn't be allowed to touch Dylan material. And what about Stevie Wonder at that show? They should have had a vaudeville hook to get him off the stage, thought he would never stop.

AlistairUK, it was "The Sacred Cows" on Get Smart who were a KAOS propaganda band who were trying to destroy the world by singing "Thrill Thrill Thrill, Kill Kill Kill" which caused the youth of the world to go out and kill. Get Smart was a late sixties show, and we wonder where Tipper Gore got her ideas. Spider man was a nice touch. My brother is a drummer who is trying to start "The Dance Band From Hell" nothing but fun tunes that you can dance to, no Jimi Hendrix or David St. Hubbins wannabees(he stumped me when he asked me if I knew any guitar players who aren't wankers). I suggested a Flintstones medley, The Bedrock Twist, Way Out and Listen to the Mockingbird. I know I'd be on the dance floor if someone stuck that up.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: steve in ottawa
Date: 24 Mar 99 - 04:15 AM

It's always surprising to me just how many people love to proclaim: "I can't sing a note," or "I've a tin ear." Or didn't you know that claiming to hate the Beatles, James Taylor, or "Celtic" music is equivalent to calling yourself a musical cripple?


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: RWilhelm
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 09:26 AM

Steve Latimer, I don't think Richard Thompson's a wanker but I may be wrong.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 11:39 AM

I always though it was lead singers who were the wankers (man am I glad that I never tell anybody about my days singing in a rock group...*damn!*...that's bloody torn it).


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: To Earl
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 01:19 PM

Earl,

Sorry, no offense to Richard Thompson and the many others who are also the "Real Deal", I saw and loved Jeff Beck here in Toronto last night. What my brother meant is do I personally know any guitar players who might like to play in a band that showcases no particular member, rather just performs fun music that people would get a kick out of and get up and dance. We've all seen bar bands where the guitar players think that the rest of the musicians are there only to support and showcase the guitar player. The old rock joke is how does a guitar player change a light bulb? He just holds it and the world revolves around him.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Dr John
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 05:15 PM

Turn the Irish clock back a bit and we had Eamond Andrews' "Shifting Wispering Sands" then T. Wogan's "Floral Dance". Surely the worst ever. When is the next professional Irishman, Henry Kelly, going to do something similiar?


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Lucius
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 09:56 PM

katlaughing:

I've been chawing over what you had to say about Cage, and I'm wondering if some of his pieces are really more deletrious than some of the "Gansta" Rap, and I'm wondering about the moral obligation that some of these rappers have. Heck, is Woody Guthrie or Bob Dylan that far removed? Or even Beethoven (most of his early symphonies and his late quartets were panned as being "disharmonius")!

I guess everyone has their own tastes and reasons to listen, I appreciate your comments, and respect your opinion, but my admiration for John Cage is steadfast. Also, I'm curious, would I recognize your brother's name? I enjoy listening to modern composers as well as folk, and have a little knowledge of both obscure and well known composers.

Peace and Love

Bob Jovi


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: DonMeixner
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 10:24 PM

I would add to list recent David Bowie and most all of Micro Jackson. The idea of mixing the music as loud or louder than the vocals I find irritating and hard to understand. Much of Christy Moore gets in here to. The Prince That Formerly Thought He Was An Artist makes my list. I don't like a lot of Neil Young but then have you ever tried to sing his stuff and not sing in a falsetto? Can't be did. James Taylor is just a boring singer, he has a very good guitar style however. I only recently began to like the Beatles but the Stones haven't been very good since Brian Jones died. Just cuz Marriah Carrey and Joni Mitchell can do that stuff with their voices isn't reason enough to do it. Its interesting that John Denver is not on any ones list yet, He is not on mine.

IF I COULD: I'd sing like Ronnie Browne, I'd play guitar like Tom Smothers,( he is very good really) I'd play banjo like Howard Bursen, I'd write like Tom Paxton or Phil Ochs.

But I'm none of those guys so I'll do it all the way I do now.

Don


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Susan A-R
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 10:54 PM

I happen to be quite fond of "Millworker" James Taylor's contribution to the musical "Working" and the White Album and Abby Road are pretty amazing to me. Now Enya and Yawnie and any new age or "noodle music" as it's caled in our house, UGH. And saints preserve me from overly-introspective, "whinging" singer/songwriters!!! I'd be curious to hear what Katlaughing and Bob Jovi (and anyone else out there) thinks of Gyorgy Ligeti. My husband plays a lot of contemporary music (concert pianist) and although I do a fair amount of tune out, I'm finding that I have really liked much of this guy's work. AlsoI have a fondness for Krum and good old Olivier Messian (anyone into God and Birds in pretty much equal proportions can't be all bad.) I have always been of the opinion that other people doing Bob Dylan's songs had some value, but he's always sounded more than a wee bit like bullwinkle moose to me. Hmmm, guess that this is NOT the NOI thread. OI!!

Susan


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Mar 99 - 12:03 AM

Bob: you are right about the rappers, too, although they would argue that they are just "telling it like it is".

I do not believe music must be all "sweetness and light", in fact Mozart and my brother, Delton Lorenzo Hudson, both have quite a bit of dissonance in their compositions. The difference I find from them to others such as Cage is that their dissonance is subtle and meant to enhance, while that of most modern composers I've heard seems to be the main reason for writing the piece!

My brother's argument on this is much more in-depth. If you like to read one of his articles, let me know and I'll send it to you. I doubt if you've heard of him, uless you were in the east of CT/West of MA/RI areas from 1984-1993 or in WY/CO recently or before 1984. We did a lot on a limited budget, but finally ran out of money and steam, mine to be exact! We do have a couple of cassettes which well when we marketed them, totally produced on a shoestring, by ourselves.

His music has been likened to Mozart, Sibelius and others whose music is tonal. He's been called the Sibelius of the Rockies. It has a clarity about it which demands precise playing. His best known piece is his tone poem, the "Ode to the Rockies", which was premiered here in WY in 1984. When back East, it and several of his solo piano pieces were featured, along with interviews of him on NPR at UMASS-Amherst and Yale.

Susan, I am sorry, I've not heard of the composer you mentioned. I've really been out of that line of work for the past 3-4 yrs. when I started my own career, finally! I am fairly opinionated though and do not care for Messian or Krum. If those are the choices of your husband, he probably wouldn't like my brother's pieces. Because of their sublety, people often mistake them for non-experimental, mostly because they are tonal and beautiful. Remember, I AM biased, but I am also a classical musician. I always told him I helped to promote and produce his music NOT because he was my brother, but because the music is divine!

As Bob said we are each entitled to our opinions and I do respect that.

Thanks,

kat


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: McMusic
Date: 26 Mar 99 - 02:27 AM

AlistairUK--that's some deep shit you're getting into. PeteM--the trouble with what's usually labelled "celtic" is that it's either New Age (not worth-a-shit), or rip-off early 70's Pink Floyd wannabe (worn-out shit). Also, it's like so many other things--popularity is a twin-edged razor blade--more people are exposed to it, but everyone and their third cousin jumps on the bandwagon. has anyone out there--throughout the world--noticed that the musicians who have "discovered" Celtic music in the past few years, and can reproduce the sounds. are a smug and arroganr lot? Sort of like electric guitar players in the 70's and 80's. And, Goddamit! I've been listening to the stuff for years, and I resent hell out of people like that!


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Sean MacRuaraidh
Date: 26 Mar 99 - 08:22 AM

My Disaster Purchases in the last 10 years :-

Minstrel Songs and Dances - my biggest CD let down ever. Chalk Mark in a Rain Storm - Joni Mitchell's worst New York - Lou Reed Strange Day in Berlin - Sally Oldfield's worst Bjorks last album - was the same as the one before (POST) but worse. David Swarbick - sounds great with Pentangle but is a disaster on his own John Renbourne - Ditto

I am a fan of Bjork, Joni Mitchell, Lou Reed's old stuff, and Pentangle but I was highly disappointed by the garbage they spewed out above.

Sean MacRuaraidh


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: RWilhelm
Date: 26 Mar 99 - 08:38 AM

Steve L, actually I think your brother got it exactly right. I had to rack my brain to think of a lead guitar player who wasn't a wanker.

Since we're slaughtering sacred cows, Eric Clapton gives me a pain. These days he just phones it in and keeps winning awards for it. Whenever there is a blues revival he emerges to be crowned king. Between times he records some of the smarmiest pop-rock ever produced.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 26 Mar 99 - 11:49 AM

Earl,

I do know one lead guitar palyer who fits the bill, plays music because he loves it, not to impress anyone. However, he is in his late thirties and I suspect that he might have matured from a wanker.

You mentioned Clapton, you're right, he is nothing but a pop musician now. He is on my list of people and or bands who should have retired years ago. Had they done so they'd be fondly remembered instead of being thought of as shmarmy wankers. Others include Elton John (after Goodbye Yellow Brick Road), Rod Stewart (Every Picture Tells a Story), Genesis when Gabriel left, Chicago, Billy Joel, AC/DC post Bon Scott . I had Dylan in this category for a while but saw him in 97 and picked up "Time Out of Mind" I believe he is as vital as ever. My list is quite long and I forget many of its members until they come on the radio and I almost put my fist through the dashboard changing stations.

As far as all the Anti Neil Young tirades here, I went off Neil a bit myself, but I think it's more because I've heard every Scarberian (sorry non Torontonians) who owns a guitar doing Neil. It loses something in the translation and makes you cringe at Jams.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 26 Mar 99 - 01:05 PM

When was Swarbrick in Pentangle? Tha's a new one on me. i know he was in Steeleye but I thought Pentangle had only ever been McShee, Renbourne and Jansch.

Clapton has never rated. Always was a waste of vinyl. Dylan had it, then lost it, then found it again so he sort of goes in and out of my list. And why Elvis was ever considered the King I do not know. Though his early 'Hillbilly Cat'days were good.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: tomtom
Date: 26 Mar 99 - 01:56 PM

Elvis's original Sun recordings are pretty remarkable, if you ask me. His Blue Moon of Kentucky is a masterpiece. After that, of course, he turned into a walking/talking freak show. Graceland is an other-worldly celebration of bad taste. Three cheers for the James Taylor bashing. Look up "BLAND" in the OED, and you'll read, "see 'Sweet Baby James.'" I'd like to add David Crosby to the list. I can't really pinpoint what bugs me about that guy, but he gives me the heebie-jeebies. thanks for listening, tomtom


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 26 Mar 99 - 02:09 PM

AlistairUK,

Amen about Elvis. In my mind he is the prime example of exploitation of black musicians, performing their material their way and becoming rich and famous at their expense, his looks and gyrations creating a frenzy that his talent did not deserve. I like some of his Rockabilly stuff too, but King? Come on. Little Richard and Chuck Berry are much more deserving of that title.

I think that Clapton did rate in the sixties, but has lost any edge and originality that he has ever had. Johnny Winter is still a far better blues player, Jeff Beck is still a far better and more creative electric rock player.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Mar 99 - 02:18 PM

Swarbrick in Steeleye?


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 26 Mar 99 - 03:17 PM

I think he was for a wee while after he'd left Fairport, or maybe it's my fading memory!


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Helen
Date: 27 Mar 99 - 12:15 AM

Hi all,

I have a theory which I'd like to run by you guys. I have never liked Bob Dylan, Neil Young or Leonard Cohen while almost everyone around me was falling over him/herself praising their talents. My boyfriend likes Neil Young and Leonard Cohen (among lots of others) but I have discovered that he listens to music in a different way from me.

He listens to the words of the songs and quotes the words in conversations, usually apropos of nothing, and it makes me completely bewildered to figure out what the hell he's talking about sometimes until he tells me it's a song quote. The music itself doesn't matter half as much to him as the lyrics. Like poetry, I think he sees it as reflections of life expressed in words.

On the other hand, I listen to the music, and it takes a lot of concentration and effort for me to follow the thread of the lyrics from start to finish of any song. For me the music - composition, arrangement and expression - is almost everything and the words are secondary, except for very few songs or songwriters.

When a high school English teacher, way back in the early 70's, decided to be a bit cool & hip and introduced Leonard Cohen's songs to us most of the class thought Cohen was fan-bloody-tastic and I thought he was just plain *yuk*. When I finally found the words to explain my reaction I said - "He can only sing about 3 notes and play a couple of chords and it is utterly boring". (The song was "Suzanne", by the way.)

I can listen to other people doing interesting musical renditions of any of these songwriters' works, but I can't listen to them singing their own songs.

So, my theory is that some people listen to the lyrics, some listen to the music and that is one of the main contributing factors in the huge disagreements people have about what makes a great (or terrible or boring) singer and/or songwriter.

What do you reckon?

Helen


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: McMusic
Date: 27 Mar 99 - 02:35 AM

Earl, I couldn't agree with you more about Mr. Clapton. Once was the time when he left everyone but Hendrix in the dust--not only because of his skill, but his dedication. Now, he's lost his edge, his drive, his musical balls. He relies on formula, bland AM radio influences and keeps getting showered with awards simply because he's Eric Clapton. But when you think about it, the increase in televised music awards shows over the past several years is nothing but the rock status quo patting themselves on the back for taking what was once the art-form of rebellion and turning in into the creaking noise of washed-out, middle-of-the-road establishmentarinsim. Hope all will excuse my rant, but I'm pretty bored with those awards shows in themselves. A couple of years ago, Cathy Fink and Marcy Marxer, who have spent years recording music and videos, and giving performances for children, were up for a Grammy. Now these two ladies have been honored by almost every parents' organization going for their talent and their dedication. But guess who won the Grammy? Linda Rondstadt, that world famous singer of children's songs! I think it was just a case of cow-towing to the big record company and its big pop star! What a joke! And Elvis? For the first couple of years, he WAS the king of rock n' roll--the rest of his life he spent as an overfed, overpaid, over praised, overindulged Vegas lounge lizard! I'll go back to my padded room now. It's time for "Petticoat Junction" to come on.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Dr John
Date: 27 Mar 99 - 04:36 AM

We're getting w a y off the folk/blues area with many of these artists; although I have seen the Beatles describes as "folk" in recent times ie anyone with an acoustic guitar. There's only one performer whose painful droaning has made me turn off "Folk on Two" (bring back ... etc) and I'm hardy enough to sit through James Taylor and that's Pete Morton. Dreadful. Can't tell the difference between Guthrie and Dylan. For a start his name was Guthrie! WG's song sound as fresh today as they did when they were recorded as that's getting to be a long time ago now; perhaps because they chronicle a time, the poetry is brilliant and they're full of biting humour. Dylan's stuff is just winging doggeral which might just as well have come from the bee bop a lula merchants. His better stuff is just Guthrie phrases cobbled together.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Mar 99 - 06:32 AM

Dear Helen,

You have hit upon a fantastic point and I'm sure that much of our passion for a particular artist/singer/songwriter/whatever is based on the priority we place on the words versus the music. There are those that do provide both and that too gets wrapped up in personal taste. For me, I think Paul Simon might be an example of the "both."

I have seen the phenomenom you describe go either way regarding men and women and I'd be willing to agree that in general it's as you, but I personally know too many examples of men=music, women=words to say that's all there is to it. It has always made me wonder exactly what it is, but my guess is it's tied up in so many different facets of our backgrounds that any individual thing would be hard to pin down...be some interesting research.

Just the highlights of a story I told a while back in another thread...My friend Mac courted his wife continually using Dylan song lyrics. He is a major Dylan fan, but she basically had no idea who Dylan was. Mac doesn't play anything nor does he sing since he believes himself to be a poor singer. The funny thing was that he kept using lyrics that could hardly be described as romantic...well Dylan isn't exactly the king of romance songs, BUT, he used particularly UN-romantic lyrics...like "Dogs run free, why not me?" I dunno'...almost 20 years later they're still happily married, great kids......I could never figure out their courtship though. When I told the extended version of this story awhile back, Rick Fielding suggested the "answer is blowin' in the wind." He's probably right.

catspaw


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: O'Hanrahan
Date: 27 Mar 99 - 11:00 AM

I t is quite interesting seeing folks take such venomous shots at people i see as artists expressing music & words in ways that have inspired me throught a lifetime. I must admit i have some 'pet peeve' artists who annoy me but never would i have thought someone could think , let's see, say ,... a body of work by John Lennon is "shit"...perhaps some of it was trivial commercial stuff but jesus....he is on of my heros...and James Taylor, I love much of his stuff and he is a lot of fun live....and then somebody takes a potshot at Pete Morton, wow...and i still listen to the new Fairport stuff...it's damn good too..and i saw Steeleye Span last year...i cried when they did this fabulous a capella finale...they are as good as ever. And Bob Dylan, imagine that, hey, listen to the tribute album at Madison Sq. Garden from a couple years back, song after song, I loved them all as did many of the contempory artists who were there to salute him. Paul simon, especially early years, Bookends and the fist two solo efforts..great music ..

Just my 2 cents worth.

My turn to slam: Although i never did care for Neil Young's voice i appreciate the songwriting abilities. And Cat Stevens kind of bugged me, and i always held a small dislike for Judy Collins, probably because i was such a Joni Mitchell fan and thought she didn't get her due, it was like judy stole her songs. What really bugs me is when i read a list of recent Grammy winners it all seems like crap to me. Sheryl Crow, uck, celine, uck,brandy, puke,... whereas in the 60's & 70's i think there was better pop music. But then i guess i am 46 after all.

Thanks Long live the Bothy Band, O'Hanrahan

PS: I really can't take too much of the Irish bar bands that play all the commercial schmaltz(sp?) either.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Lucius
Date: 27 Mar 99 - 04:56 PM

Susan: Ligetti! I just watched a bit of "2001" on the telly the other night. You know that Kubrick used his music in the score, right?

I'm fond of Messien, but I'm not familiar with Krum, do you mean George Crumb, from Media, PA? I was just recently working out his "Songs, Chants and Death Drones" on my electric guitar. Don't think that I can use it at our next sing, however.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Helen
Date: 27 Mar 99 - 07:14 PM

Catspaw,

I have been attending a training course in the last few weeks about training other people, and I was reminded in that course about different people having a different focus on learning and also on life generally.

Some people are visual (like to see things, draw pictures & diagrams, have to see it in writing, not just hear it etc), some people are audio (have to hear it for it to sink in) and some people are kinesthetic (they have to touch things, make a learning experience tangible). Another difference is the way each person's brain functions. Some people are more left-brained (verbal, analytical, factual) and some people are more right brained (conceptual, visual, interested in possibilities and ideas). In both of these categorisations you can find people who are balanced between the different types, too.

I think that theories like this explain it more than whether we are male or female, but there are people who reckon that a higher proportion of men or women fit into one particular category.

I am fairly well balanced between left and right brained approaches, with slightly more of a swing to the right brain, but my main focus (out of the first set of categories) is visual. I tend to *see* the music in my head and then feel it (emotionally) more than hearing the words of the songs. By *seeing* I mean that I imagine ways of creating animations of colour, shapes and movement which fit the complex interweaving of the sounds of the music. This is why I like Vivaldi and JS Bach and other Baroque musicians - they use complex interweavings of sounds and timing etc.

I don't think that this completely explains the differences in people's appreciation of singers and musicians, but it makes sense for me when I am listening to singer-songwriters especially because some of them may be particularly good at lyric writing, for instance, but particularly boring at either writing or performing the musical accompaniment, or vice versa.

There is, around Newcastle, Oz, a singer-songwriter with the same name (rightfully gained at birth) as one of the singer-songwriters named in this thread. I find him particularly boring to listen to because of his monotonous (for me) musical style but others around here sing his praises (excuse the pun) because they like his song lyrics. The only time I enjoyed his performances was when he teamed up with a woman singer who added interesting musical harmonies to his songs, but the rest of the time I just don't like his stuff at all.

So now, when I disagree with someone else's opinion about which singer-songwriter is good etc I usually ask them what they like about their songs and it tends to work out that it is a choice between music and words.

Just a (rather long) set of thoughts on this topic.

Helen


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Mar 99 - 11:34 PM

Great post Helen...we are on exactly the same page. I taught school for a few years and these things are major topics in teacher education. Again good post and thanks.

catspaw


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: steve in ottawa
Date: 28 Mar 99 - 11:42 AM

Helen,

Very few people see colours when they hear musical notes. Some people do. I can't remember what the phenomenom is called. Kinesthesia, I thought, but now I think that's wrong. It sometimes runs in families. The colours seen don't usually match between different people. I remember one woman (on TV) describing a scat singer as producing wonderful moving patterns of light. There was one famous work by a composer who wrote in the names of the colours for different parts, and people with this talent/ability/condition sometimes like to speculate which composers of the past shared their talent/ability/condition.

For myself, I think I'm most sensitive to the emotional thrust of VOCALS, but other parts of my brain become bored if they're not satisified with the sense of the lyrics or the feel of the music. If I listen to a symphony, I simply cannot concentrate on the music. After a few minutes, I generally start to think about all sorts of things, occasionally concentrating purely on the music again, but more often thinking about who-knows-what.

I've run into many people who strive to censor all the music around them. I remember one guy who got angry (he'd stomp out of the bar to go have a smoke) whenever anything from the 70s was played -- a decade which he claimed had produced absolutely no good music. I don't enjoy the company of people like that. I can't tell to what extent some of the people here have their tongue in cheek, or really would prefer to wish away music that has brought emotional release to so many others.

Helen, it's nice to see someone who's trying to reconcile others' differences :-) but the people I've met personally who routinely shoot down other people's music don't seem to care that other people may experience the music differently than themselves.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: RWilhelm
Date: 28 Mar 99 - 11:45 AM

McMusic, I totally agree about award shows and Grammies in particular. These days I watch because sometimes it's fun just to sit there and get angry for four hours. Linda Rondstadt must have some pull with those people. Several years ago she was up for the best Spanish album (first time that category was televised.) The other contestants were legitimate Latin-American musicians with names the announcers couldn't pronounce. I don't have to tell you who won.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: McMusic
Date: 29 Mar 99 - 01:13 AM

O'Hanrahan, as far as my venom goes--I'm over it now. Petticoat Junction on the TV really helped! Actually, I really didn't mean to get so "arrrgghh!" about it all, but I swear I cringe when I see what's dominating the airwaves these days--and I'm a baby boomer too! And then to hear someone like Jewel called "folksinger"! Lord, I'm about to start ranting again. And Earl, I wonder what will happen when Ms. Rondstadt decides she wants to do a hip-hop cd. If people think rap songs are obscene--just wait 'til she wins the Grammy for that category!!!!!


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 29 Mar 99 - 01:21 AM

What?? The Beatles being dismissed as garbage?? What about Sergeant Pepper? Abbey Road? Rubber Soul? My friends those were cutting edge pieces of work. And I'll brook no cheap shots at Van Morrison- he is one o' the Greats. And Elvis- most of his pre-army stuff was great seminal rock n roll and rockabilly.

Now let's talk crappy. How about Rush? Got to be the most irritating band that ever polluted the airwaves. Geddy Lee gets my vote for producing the greatest number of shrill and annoying sounds with his mouth of any singer. And there is Aerosmith, or Rolling Stones Lite . I don't know who was worse, Styx or Kansas. Sometimes I think they were the same guys, switching names to confuse their vapid and pimply clientele. America ..."I understand you been runnin from the man who goes by the name of the Sandman...He rules the Sky like an Eagle in the Eye of a Hurricane that's Abandoned." Need I really say more.Eric Clapton peaked with the guitar break on Crossroads, then headed downhill to his lowest point thusfar, If I could change the World . And Leonard Cohen should not be allowed to talk, much less sing.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Helen
Date: 29 Mar 99 - 01:50 AM

steve t,

I have to confess that I do quietly and unobtrusively exit from almost all performances of poetry and also from some singer-songwriters' performances. My problem is that I tune the words out so much, and if there is no music or the music is repetitive and uninspiring I tend to forget that anyone is performing at all and start making conversation with people. I figure it's much more polite for me to exit gracefully than to hang around and make a nuisance of myself.

Helen


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Earl
Date: 29 Mar 99 - 07:53 AM

Lonesome EJ, As a general rule, any band named after a place, or any individual whose last name is the name of a place, will suck. This includes America, Kansas, Boston, Chicago and John Denver. The exception is Irving Berlin. America, of course, produced the worst lyrics ever heard on this planet.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 29 Mar 99 - 08:03 AM

DrJohn:

Oh my we are gonna get in a pissing contest here. Pete Morton was (lets face it, it's been a few years since he was the Young Turk of the British Acoustic scene) is still one of the best singer songwriters that Britain has ever produced. If you think that he has cobbled together Woody songs then this is obviously not the same Pete Morton and I forgive you, but the thing is he has never written a song that is remotely Woody-like. Guthrie is Guthrie, Morton is Morton. If you listen to the simple power of his songs 'Lucy' and the anger of his earlier stuff like 'Babe of the World' they may have the fire of Woody but he is distinctly british and none of the "simplicity" that Woody you ( who buy the way used to cobble together traditional, other peoples and his own songs and tunes).

Jesus you;ll be ripping the bollocks off of Rory McCleod next!


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: o'hanrahan
Date: 29 Mar 99 - 10:05 AM

Ditto. I love Pete Morton.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 29 Mar 99 - 12:11 PM

Lonesome EJ, you must be a mind reader in that I fully agree with everything in your post. I was a teenager in Toronto (Rush's hometown) when they first broke. Couldn't stand them then, can't stand them now. They might be fantastic, but when Geddy Lee starts to sing I have to change stations immediately. Sounds like a cat in a blender. Punks with lessons.

Earl, I'd never thought about your point, but it sure is accurate. Stretching it a little bit, Styx is a river/place and certainly can be added to your list.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: The Shambles
Date: 29 Mar 99 - 02:07 PM

Alistair

If you rip the bollocks off Rory McCleod, would you get Rory Block?


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Mar 99 - 02:10 PM

Ah, jeez...I guess I must be passe'! Have to admit I don't pay attention to names of artists and don't know who some of the people are that you all are talking about, BUT:

Beatles' White Album and Sgt. Peppers, as well as Abbey Road, are not only great favourites but capture, in my memory, all that I loved and enjoyed of growing up in the 60's, along with many others.

And, John Denver some beautiful songs and I don't mind his singing them, sometimes. Country Roads was the first song my youngest learned off the radio.

'Course none of us will totally agree to anything said in this thread!****grin***

katlaughing


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 29 Mar 99 - 02:12 PM

Sham:

No you'd probably get a bleedin' huge harmonica forced where the monkey shoved his nut.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Dr John
Date: 29 Mar 99 - 02:12 PM

AlistairUK. No it's Pete Morton I used to turn off on Folk on Two; it's Dylan who cobbled together Guthrie phrases. PS who is Rory McCleod?


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 29 Mar 99 - 02:17 PM

Rory McCleod!! you don't know who Rory McCleod is?!!!
*Sigh* Okay, he plays harmonica and tons of other stuff and sings his own stuff...the best one man show in the world. Look for his album Farewell Welfare and listen and weep.

And what were you doing listening to Folk on Two? My God I'd rather have none of it on the radio than listen to that.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: The Shambles
Date: 29 Mar 99 - 02:50 PM

For those that do not know, i.e. those that are younger and not expected to be as wise as me (Kat).

Rory MaCleod is probably the finest 'gob iron' player I have seen, a great live performer and a man.
Rory Block is a blues guitarist/singer and a woman.

A word for John Denver. I used to think he was a bit 'naff' but I went to see him play live in the UK, a few years before he died and he was great. Worked hard, put on a good show, his voice was so strong and the backing band was first rate.

I know that these kinds of thread are useful in giving the usually polite and restrained Mudcatter's a chance to 'vent spleen' but I think that all the performers mentioned here (except of course the dead ones) should only really be judged on a live performance and be given the benefit of the doubt until we have the chance to see them play live.

On that subject, I heard a live CD of Christy Moore today and I still remain to be convinced.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 29 Mar 99 - 03:13 PM

I don't know somw of the 'live'performances of some of the people mentioned here are pretty dead. I rememeber seeing Christy at Cambridge just after his last heart attack a few years ago and I must say he is still one of the best performers that are doing the rounds today.

Sham:If you've got a new album ie during the last 6 years bung it on a tape and pass it along to a poor impoverished ex-pat...please please beg beg beg.

Pathetic Al


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Dr John
Date: 29 Mar 99 - 03:28 PM

AlistairUK. Yeah, I'll look up Rory McCleod. I was listening to Folk on Two because it's better than the Mike Harding program, sorry "show". Why does Martin Carthy "get on your tits sometimes"? I went through the whole lot recently and find it good honest stuff. OK he has let a synthesizer creep in for a time and then creep out again and he tackles some crap contemporary material which hasn't undergone the folk process, that is, been modified or rejected I guess I mean. But mostly good honest stuff.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Bert
Date: 29 Mar 99 - 03:34 PM

Trouble is if I don't like something I don't even bother to remember who was playing it.

I belonged to a songwriter's club when I lived in Alabama and I tell you you don't know what BAD is until you've had to politely listen to an evening of 'amateur gospel'

Bert.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 29 Mar 99 - 03:44 PM

Amateur Gospel, sounds like a torture method from The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I don't even want to think about it.

Steve


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 29 Mar 99 - 03:51 PM

Doc.- he got on my tits 'sometimes' is the operative word here. He particularly got on my tits wjhen he spent interminable lengths of time tuning up when nobody but him could tell the difference.

Amateur Gospel: right there in the HH Guide between Anal probes of Uranus and Ashholes: the detritus of the universe.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Ronn
Date: 29 Mar 99 - 11:52 PM

Lessons learned:

1)In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane-- Mark Twain

2)Sacred cows make the tastiest burgers if you cook 'em just right-- Reverend Billy C Wirtz

3)For every ill-informed opinion there is an equal and opposite ill-informed opinion (including my own)-- Ronn Gilbert


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Mar 99 - 01:17 AM

Well my word Ronn...talk about your sacred cow potshots!!! I've been saying for years that there are no new "famous quotes" since the Peter Principle...and I just love reading quotes!!! So many that speak to the point in a far better way than I ever could, so why reinvent the wheel? But there are so few new ones. I am humbled at your genius and I have every intent of using yours, with your name attached.

Seriously, well stroked!!!

catspaw


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: ddw in windsor
Date: 30 Mar 99 - 01:26 AM

I can't believe I've made it all the way through this thread and nobody has mentioned Janis Joplin. I always said you could get the same degree of musicality by poking a pig in the ass with a hatpin.

Or Gordon Lightfoot, who has written god knows how many lyrics, but only two tunes; you can tell them apart because one is fast and one is slow.

I won't even go into the list of pop screamers, whiners and heavy breathers who run me up a wall.....

Oh, one other. Billy Bragg. I heard him interviewed on CBC a while back because he had been chosen to do a retrospective on Woody Guthrie << by WG's family, no less. Couldn't believe it. The guy is awful; can't sing, can't play and has the social attitudes of a truly wingeing moron. I think choosing a warmed-over Marxist-Leninist to present the works of WG is insulting both to WG's memory and talent AND to the intelligence of his fans and fans-to-be.

cheers, everybody

ddw


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Mar 99 - 01:53 AM

Ronn I liked the quotes, especially the sacred cow burger idea.

ddw

I think what you say about Billy Bragg is all true, he has been incredibly over-rated, but I think we should bear in mind that for his generation, he was a lone voice and their only real hope. I think his heart is in the right place and I have a lot of affection for him, as long as I don't have to listen to him singing.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Sean MacRuaraidh
Date: 30 Mar 99 - 05:01 AM

AlistairUK,

you are right and I am wrong.

Dave Swarbick was in fact playing for the Ian Campbell Folk Band and not Pentangle.

Please forgive me (to err is human).

Sean MacRuaraidh


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 30 Mar 99 - 06:11 AM

aaargh !!! ah say...ah say...aaaaaargh!!!

Oh Billy thy genius is still intact in my eyes. Oh these heretics shall surely roast over a bit of burning banjos.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Mar 99 - 09:43 AM

Give me a pint of Youngs, please barman. *smiles*


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 30 Mar 99 - 10:53 AM

aaaaargh is no thread sacred!!???

and that should've read "... a pit of burning banjos"


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: John Galt
Date: 30 Mar 99 - 11:21 AM

Having waded through this thread in it's entirety I would like to declare that I would savor giving ear to James Taylor and Neil Young on loop for sempiternity just to avoid one more tune by Steely Dan or Hall & Oats.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Dr John
Date: 30 Mar 99 - 11:59 AM

ddw of Winsor, Yes I agree with every point about Billy Bragg, truely awful love-me-I'm-a-liberal attitude and sings like a yob. Great pity he did the Woody Guthrie stuff; pity it wasn't ... new thread needed here. For a UK singer I'd vote Jez Lowe, excellent singer, instrumentalist and song writer - socialist in the broad sense without stupidity or winging.


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Pete M
Date: 30 Mar 99 - 05:23 PM

I think you are all truly truly horrible to some wonderful artists especially those lovely new age celtic singer songwriters who share their innermost torment with us. To make amends I am proposing a new award ceremony where everyone gets to win just to show how loving, caring, and just, just, together we all are.

Can't make up my mind if the prize should be front row tickets to a Disaster Area concert, or an evening of Vogon poetry.

Pete M


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Mar 99 - 06:25 PM

Or how about a night designing those fiddly bits around the fiords with Slartibartfast?


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Mar 99 - 07:22 PM

My ether coagulator just picked up a message from a Vogon fleet currently laying waste to a small planet in the crab nebula. Message is as follows:

"This is Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz and I am ordering you to set up an evening of poetry. We destoyed your planet once and we can do it AGAIN."

catspaw


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From:
Date: 30 Mar 99 - 09:10 PM

I do not know who Billy Bragg is, But if he is a Marxist-Leninist as someone wrote, or (heaven help us!) a liberal, then I see no problem with him recording thw works of Woody Guthrie who was for at least part of his life a member of the American Communist Party. I mean this from an ideological standpoint, as I can make no judgement on performance.

When I began this thread to rag [that's not PC is it?] on James Taylor, I had no idea it woul catch on as it did. I really had "folk" singers in mind, but it spread wildly. I also had in mind artists widely known, and here have found some obscure ones...but that's OK, it's part of the fun.

Thank you all for your participation. I officially declare this thread closed. **sound of gavel banging**--John (not jon)


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Subject: RE: Biggest waste of Vinyl, Tape or CDs
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 30 Mar 99 - 10:51 PM

Jeez! I didn't even get a chance to vote, and now the polls are closed! Story of my life.

Sandy


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