english folklore request: gobs

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Bert
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 03:11 PM

Refresh again now that we have some more Londoners here.

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 06:23 PM

Mumbleypeg was our favorite, but now one would be thrown out of school. Every boy had a knife when I went to primary school.

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 06:22 PM

peaches 2..........Limes were carried aboard british ships to ward off diseases of malnutrtion as they kept extremely well.

Spaw

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: The Walrus
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 05:57 PM

I seem to remember one version of "fivestones" which, after the first throw-flip-throw-catch (as described) to start the game, those caught were discarded (except one for throwing) and the remainder were lined up with a gap between each. The object of this variant was to throw up the retained "stone" and "leapfrog" another along the line, this was then discarded and the next was moved along until all had been discarded (then you try it with two). (need I mention that this was a ten stone variant?)

Regards

Walrus

Subject: Where did the term Limey come from?
From:
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 11:19 AM

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 08:19 AM

Thanks Bert....(:<))

.......And I am glad that a bit of the mystery has been cleared up now.

Spaw

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: alanww
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 04:34 AM

45 years ago(!) we used to play fivestones both in the street (in Brixton, a not very salubrious area of London) and at school in posher Clapham. But nobody would ever have bought the game from a shop as a toy - all you needed was five stones from the gutter!
At school we also played fives. But that was a different game entirely, being in a court like squash but played with a gloved hand rather than a racket.
What memories! It certainly was another world from folk singing, morris dancing and playing the concertina and from suburbia in Stratford-upon-Avon where I live now!

"And did those feet in ancient times ...!"
Alan

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 03:24 AM


When my children were small, the ONLY rule I remember about "jacks" was DON'T EVER, NOT EVER, NEVER leave the d... things anywhere on the floor where your father might step on them when he gets up in the middle of the night.

This rule was created on the "spur" of the moment one night ... and was originally recited in an ancient language unprintable in ANSI characters.

John

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: mouldy
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 01:30 AM

A little memory has just shaken the dust off itself:

Bearing in mind that I have had to reach back 40 years, I have 2 ideas flitting about my brain. Perhaps someone can sort 'em out - The game started by throwing 5 (maybe more) stones into the air and catching as many as possible on the back of the hand. You then had to flick them up and catch them cleanly. These were put to one side. You then had to pick up the remainder on the ground one at a time by throwing up one of these spares and picking them up from the ground while it was in the air, then catching it. I think when you next did it you had to pick 2 at a time, and so on.

The other thought that is buzzing around is something about having to catch a minimum on the back of the hand too. Maybe to start 2s, for example, you had to catch at least 2 on the back of the hand first. Or perhaps it was another version of the game. I do remember having, for some reason, to be able to catch 5 or more. I also remember having to "sweep" my hand round and grab all 5 from the ground. I know I was quite good at it, because I have huge hands!

Andrea

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Bert
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 10:22 PM

A titch is a person who is small, so all the little kids got called titch. I think that 'Monkey Grabs' was an alternative name for 'Grab All'. It came along later, we didn't use that name, but my little sister did.

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 04:12 PM

Yeah Bert, I'm a real pain in the ass anymore and just to prove it..........

Now that you seem to be settling down on some close versions of the game, can you answer my questions that I asked a few years ago, to wit........

Monkey grabs little titch??????????

Cut less, big titch??? This got sumpin' to do with circumcision?

What the hell is a titch? Why would a monkey grab one?

Just curious........and a pain in the ass.

Spaw

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 04:05 PM

I certainly remember playing 'gobs' or fivestones. I remember onesies etc and also 'grabsies' and 'sweepsies' which referred to the manner in which the stones were picked up. Beyond that its all a bit vague but since that could take quite a long while to finish if a few of you were playing the bell probably went before we needed any more!

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Bert
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 04:01 PM

Wonderful site MMario, A lot of different 'tricks as they call them. We didn't do most of those and they don't mention "The New" game at all.

I guess every town and probably every school had different rules for the game. So maybe 'Our' version is lost and gone for ever, Damned CRS.

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: vectis
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 03:57 PM

We used to play fives with five bits of shingle from the beach. Rules as per fivestones. No ball just lightning fast digits.
Clever kids played with ten bits of shingle but still called the game fives.
Big sweep was picking up all nine stones on the ground whilst throwing the tenth up and catching it with the same hand. Only older kids played it because youngsters hands were too small to hold ten stones.
Little sweep was to pick up four whilst throwing up the fifth. A kind of junior version of big sweep.
This thread has brought back some memories.

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: MMario
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 03:54 PM

Bert - have you looked here?

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Bert
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 03:45 PM

Yes Gobs IS Fivestones. But if you search the web for fivestones you get fiftygazillion sites about Pente and other such games.

I can remember some of the games, There's "Onesy" through "foursy" in "The Old" and "The New". There's "Grab All" and "Cut Less" but were they in "The Old" or "The New"?.

As soon as I get a few more I'll publish the instructions right here.

So Pavane, how do you play "Big Titch" and "Little Titch"

Hey Spaw, you're getting real touchy in yer old age aincha? It's been a year since this thread was active. So why doancha quit whining and do yer "Cheshire Catspaw" act ya miserable Ol' Fart.

Thanks for refreshing the thread

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 03:01 PM

Yeah, I read the site...cute and all, bit Gobs is not there although similar games like fivestones/jacks are mentioned....Or did I miss something?

Spaw

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: pavane
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 02:59 PM

'tis Bald, my nag, he will do you no harm (!) 'And what's this under his chin?' 'Its the bag he keeps his provender in'

That's another (mis)quote from Pills, I think. Don't have the book to hand to check it. I DO remember 'big titch' and 'Little Titch', but still no details.

jacks, fivestones, gobs knucklebones are clearly all variants of the same basic game, it's just finding all the different versions.

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Jeanie
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 02:52 PM

Forget about fives/jacks/gobs/knucklebones everyone - The Anglo-Saxon Games website quoted by McGrath of Harlow back in Sept. 2000 (see above)has something far more interesting: The Anglo-Saxon Game of Riddling I quote verbatim: "A strange thing hangs by man's hip, hidden by a garment. It has a hole in its head. It is stiff and strong and its firm bearing reaps a reward. When the retainer hitches his clothing high above his knee, he wants the head of that hanging thing to find the old hole that it, outstretched, has often filled before." See for yourself ! (The less interesting game you're looking for is described there, too)

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 02:18 PM

No Mario....It seems from reading here that it isn't, or at least Bert says it isn't the same. Also thanks there pavane to you too. Bert can't remember shit (CRS Syndrome) so any help is good......

Spaw

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: MMario
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 02:14 PM

Does "gobs"="fivestones?

There are several sites with rules for fivestones - many qith quite elaborate rules - but no "big titch" or "little titch"

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: pavane
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 02:06 PM

It was a real game, I remember it from school - but that was more than 40 years ago and I can't remember the details either. Sorry. We still have a set around the house somewhere though.

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 01:08 PM

Okay......I just read in another thread that Bert is still looking for this sillyass game........It's probably a figment of his imagination or the name was perverted through his cockney slang or something......BUT....I figured I'd try a refresh on this turkey as I've been hearing about this damn game for three years now (It came up on an earlier thread than this) and Bert pisses and moans about it all the time!!!! So help ME out here gang......ta' hell with Bert! This is really getting to be a pain in the ass...as is Bert.

Spaw

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 10:57 AM

Whacking away at each other's nuts?!?!?!? Oh yeah......What a hoot. Maybe a howl. I can even hear the occasional high pitched scream.

Hey Bert.....This sounds like one helluva' game for you and Max to play on Mudcat Radio!

Spaw

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Metchosin
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 10:13 AM

It's almost Fall.....anyone for Conkers? You string a chestnut and basically whack away at your opponents nuts until they break. If your nut remains intact you win... another wonderfully British game....I think.....

Have fun Spaw!

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Quincy
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 08:11 AM

Bert
It's 'dibs' is the game you want!!! They're the chalky cubes that you catch on the back of your hand. Then you use one to pick up those you drop one at a time then two at a time etc....
Will ask my mum when I go over for dinner in a while, cos she played it as a wee girl in Belfast.

best wishes, Yvonne

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Penny S.
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 07:52 AM

And from the staffroom, we wished the inventor of clackers to be locked in a hall with a school full of players.

penny

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Bagpuss
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 08:01 AM

We called it "chucks" (the chucks were chalky cubes). There were all sorts of games in it. One where you had to throw up one chuck, pick up the others, then catch the first one. there was something to do with throwing up all the chucks and catching them on the back of your hand, and also one where you didn't pick up the chucks, but you had to "score goals" with them in between the thumb and forefinger of the other hand.

I always liked "Clackers", before they changed the string into stiff plastic so you couldn't break your wrist with them, like everyone seemed to manage!

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 07:15 PM

Here is an extract from a site about games played by the Anglo-Saxons and Vikings - the rules hadn't changed any when I was playing it, so far as I can see - except that we used the china claystones instead of the knuckles that the Saxons (and the Romans) used. I've got a set in my desk here. We still called them knucklestones though, or fivestones.

The list of extra tricks added on was endless, and I think varied a lot. But the basic onesies and twosies etc were hard enough when you got up to having to throw up four stones while picking up the fifth etc. Especially if you were doing it on the floor of an underground train going to school.

Knucklebones and Fivestones A form of 'knucklebones' or 'fivestones' was played, probably the form where a number of small bones ( usually pig or sheep knuckles ) or stones are taken in the palm of the hand. The bones are then flicked in the air and the idea is to catch as many bones as possible on the back of the same hand. The winner is the player who catches most bones. Other versions of this game might include the version where one stone is taken in the palm of the hand whilst the others are left on the ground. The stone/bone on the hand is thrown into the air. Whilst it is in the air the player must pick up the stones/bones on the ground with the same hand and catch the thrown piece before it hits the ground. If the player succeeds with one piece in his hand, he moves onto two, then three, etc.. Another popular form of knucklebones would have been the game we now call 'pass the pig', although particular bones from a sheep's foot would have been used as playing pieces. This would have been a popular game to gamble on.

But really to check it out, this is the book to get..

But I can't believe it's died out. Perhaps we need to start knucklestone games in folk festivals.

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: SINSULL
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 04:47 PM

TIDDLYWINKS, ANYONE?

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Noreen
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 04:41 PM

When and where, Bert? Maybe I could ask my aged relatives?? :0)

Noreen

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Bert
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 04:33 PM

Probably, the 'stones' were ridged ceramic cubes, about 5/8 of an inch in size. You could buy them in all toy shops.

There must be someone out there who remembers the rules.

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Noreen
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 04:29 PM

Would if I could, Bert, but I've not heard of gobs or fivestones, but we did play jacks, as described above, with the spiky metal 'jacks' and a small rubber ball. (They are available again now in toy shops and I've shown some of my pupils in darkest Salford how to play.)

Would fivestones be an earlier version maybe?

Noreen

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Bert
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 03:11 PM

Refresh,

Now we have more British Mudcatters perhaps we'll solve this one yet.

Bert.

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Nov 99 - 09:16 AM

I'm certainly glad you refreshed this again Bert. Don't feel too bad. No one has answered my questions either in regards to Titches, the Monkey, and Circumcision. Being a dumbass American as opposed to a dumbass Limey, these things are important to me.

Spaw

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Brakn
Date: 20 Nov 99 - 08:04 AM

It just so happens that I bought some jacks for my daughter yesterday and I have the rules to games with and without a ball. Also fouls and misses. I haven't the time to type them all out but will do so if pressed.

Games with the ball.
Ones.
Twos.
Downs and Ups.
Eggs in Basket.
Crack The Eggs.
Upcast.
Pigs in the Pen.
Pigs Over The Fence.
Sweeps.
Scrubs.

Games without a ball.
Over and Back.
Scatters.
Sweeps.


Mick Bracken

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: roopoo
Date: 20 Nov 99 - 02:04 AM

We used to play snobs with little ribbed cubes made from some sort of cast plaster. Jacks were the spiky metal things with the little rubber ball. Snobs we played as described by catching them on the back of the hand, etc. I can remember having jacks in my hand, and vaguely playing them but nothing like as much as the snobs. They were probably cheaper!

mouldy

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Bert
Date: 19 Nov 99 - 06:25 PM

Thanks Patrish, certainly the games are similar.

There must be more info out there. This game is supposedly prehistoric in origin. Surely television hasn't killed it in the short space of 50 years.

Come on you Brits, ask your kids and your neighbors.

Bert.

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Patrish(inactive)
Date: 19 Nov 99 - 12:31 PM

I found this on the web, hope it is of use

Basic Jacks:

Flip for who goes first. Then work your way up from onesies to tensies and back down to onesies. Begin by throwing the jacks out on the floor. Then, taking a ball (you can use the little ones that come in the sets or we always preferred the "Pinkies" (tennis-ball sized pink rubber balls) you throw the ball into the air, pick up the correct number of jacks and letting the ball bounce once, catch the ball while still holding the jack(s). You can only use one hand. Your turn continues until you miss the ball, miss the jacks, move a jack, or drop a jack you've just picked up. Then you are out and it is the next person's turn.

For instance, on onesies, you'll pick up one jack at a time, until you've collected all ten. (You may put the jacks you've collected into your other hand or on the ground before you try to collect more.) On twosies, you pick them up two at a time.

On threesies, you pick them up three at a time, with one left over. You pick up the leftover(s) by itself. If you pick up the leftover before you've picked up all the evenly grouped jacks, you are putting the horse before the cart and therefore must call "cart" as you take the leftover jack(s). On Foursies, there are, obviously, two groups of four and two jacks in the "cart." Fivesies has no cart. Sixsies has one group of six and four in the "cart." And so on.

If you throw the jacks and two (or more) are touching it is Kissies and you have the option of picking up the kissing jacks and dropping them to spread them out. This is sometimes advantageous; sometimes not.

FLIPPING: By flipping, we mean you take all the jacks in the palms of your two hands held together, throw them into the air as you turn your hands over so that the backs are now upwards with index fingers touching to form a surface onto which you will catch the jacks. Now, throw the jacks into the air again, this time returning your hands to the palms up position at which you started. Catch all the jacks? Good. When flipping for first, the player who drops the least goes first. If none drop, the you take turns flipping until someone drops one, determining who goes first.

You may also decide to flip at the beginning of a game.Flipping is done on your first turn only, and only until you drop a jack. The level at which you drop the jack(s) must be played from those dropped jacks. You continue from there. Thus, if you drop 2 jacks on your third flip (threesies), you would have to pick up the two jacks together (since at threesies you are taking them three at a time) and then continue with foursies. How far you can flip is decided at the outset of a game:flip only to fivsies, flip to tensies, flip all the way, and no flipping.

The Winner: The first player to complete the agreed upon steps. In Basic Jacks, the first player to complete the challenge of going from Onsies to Tensies and back down again to Onsies.

BEYOND BASIC JACKS:

Fancies are specialty jacks rounds. At the start of a game, the players will decided how many and what kinds of fancies will be included. There was a huge collection of fancies that were just common knowledge when I was a kid. Some fancies are short: a simple chant with a certain pattern of activity that composed the whole fancy. Some fancies are long: a certain, trickier way of picking up the jacks that was performed from onsies to tensies.

Thus a game might be agreed upon: "Flip to tensies. Five fancies; two long, three short." meaning players can flip as far as tensies, but must play tensies back to onesies no matter what, then complete two long fancies and three short fancies in order to win.

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Bert
Date: 19 Nov 99 - 09:53 AM

Seeing as we have a bunch of new Limeys around I'm refreshing this again.

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Bert
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 02:40 PM

Refresh,

There must be SOME old Limeys out there who remember the rules. Come on Guys.

Bert.

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: alison
Date: 24 Mar 99 - 02:40 AM

Hi, Bert

That's the same game, except we used a ball to throw in the air, I think we let it bounce the first time to make it easier... then did it again without the bounce.

Saw a set of jacks for sale in a shop a while back (the old metal kind), they were in a display marked old (historic) games.... and were sitting beside spinning tops and marbles. Does that make me old.. I played with all 3............

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Penny
Date: 23 Mar 99 - 06:42 PM

I hope you realise that you have broken the great taboo, that under no circumstances should Penny be told the rules of jacks or fivestones! Goodness knows what will happen now!

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Bert
Date: 23 Mar 99 - 05:34 PM

Well I've never played Jacks so I don't know how they compare.

With Fivestones you take all five stones in the palm of your hand, toss them in the air and try to catch them on the back of your hand, toss them in the air again and try to catch them in your palm.
Any that you drop become active and are played according to the rules of the game.
for example in 'Onesy in the old' you throw one stone in the air and catch it again BUT while it is in the air you have to pick up one of the stones on the ground with the same hand. You have to do this for all the active stones on the ground.
With 'Twosy' you have to pick up two stones at onec and so on.

The problem is no one in our family could remember all the rules. There must be an 'Old Limey' Mudcateer who remembers them.

Bert.

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: AlistairUK
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 06:51 AM

I always played jacks where you threw the jacks down and bounced the ball and you had to pick up as many jacks as you could before it bounced again.

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Night Owl
Date: 22 Mar 99 - 01:39 AM

alison.....I think you're describing how we used to start jacks (quick version). After throwing the jacks the second time and trying to catch them on the back of your hand, anything on the ground was used to play the regular game. Otherwise we started with ten. (Do you think this is helping Bert yet?)

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: alison
Date: 21 Mar 99 - 08:05 PM

OK....

anothere vague memory.. you started off with them on the back of your hand flipped your hand over and caught them in you palm... then flicked back to the other side.... and the number left on your hand somehow determined how many you had to pick up........ ring any bells?

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Kernow John
Date: 21 Mar 99 - 04:26 PM

Youse guys are messing with a serious kids game!
Baz

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Mar 99 - 12:49 PM

Bert

Have you written any other sogs? How about one about a bad head cold?

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Night Owl
Date: 21 Mar 99 - 10:53 AM

Getting to know you.......sure doesn't take long! When I first read Bert's posting, started laughing in anticipation of Catspaw's responses. Are the thread police always on duty?

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Mar 99 - 08:54 AM

Monkey grabs little titch??????????

Cut less, big titch??? This got sumpin' to do with circumcision?

What the hell is a titch? Why would a monkey grab one?

Jackie, Bert ??? Need some help here!!!

catspaw

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Jackie
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 11:49 PM

With five stones one threw one stone in the air and picked up the others in various computations of games onsey, twosy and so on and there was monkey grabs and cut less, grab all,big titch and little titch and so on but cannot remember exact rules
Jackie (BERT'S SISTER)

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: alison
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 11:43 PM

then how do you set a time limit?

with jacks you had a small ball and five "jacks" (stones or whatever) you threw the ball in the air and had to pick up a certain number of jacks before the ball fell.. you had to catch it again too, (all with the same hand.

so you started by picking up one at a time, then groups of 2, 3, 4 etc...... (come to think of it I think we used 10)

Slainte

alison

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Jackie
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 11:40 PM

Similar game but no ball ,
Just five squares stones Jackie, Bert's sister

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: alison
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 11:30 PM

Hi,

Would five stones be the same as jacks? (knuckles.. I think it is in Oz.)... where you have to pick up different numbers of stones in the time it takes to bounce and catch a ball......

Slainte

alison

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From:
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 09:20 PM

Night Owl,

You silly sod. I love it, though it didn't answer my question

Bert.

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Night Owl
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 04:20 PM

Bert, I think if Gods can be Dogs then "gobs" can certainly be "sogs".

Subject: RE: english folklore request: gobs
From: Bert
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 04:03 PM

Sog? what the bloody hell's that? I meant song of course.

Bert.

Subject: english folklore request: gobs
From: Bert
Date: 20 Mar 99 - 04:02 PM

I know it's not a sog but does anyone have the rules for the game of gobs or fivestones. I can remember some of the games but can't remember how you played 'big titch' & 'little titch'

Bert.