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Lyr Req: Where Oh Where Is Old Elijah?

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(origins) Origins: Paw Paw Patch (45)
Lyr/Chords Req: Paw-Paw Bush/Patch (7)


GUEST,Sheila 13 Jan 07 - 02:35 PM
Azizi 13 Jan 07 - 04:02 PM
wysiwyg 13 Jan 07 - 04:48 PM
Joe Offer 13 Jan 07 - 05:18 PM
GUEST,Sheila 13 Jan 07 - 06:24 PM
Azizi 13 Jan 07 - 06:29 PM
GUEST,Sheila 13 Jan 07 - 10:27 PM
Azizi 13 Jan 07 - 11:02 PM
Alba 13 Jan 07 - 11:20 PM
Joe Offer 14 Jan 07 - 12:38 AM
Joe Offer 14 Jan 07 - 01:56 AM
GUEST,Mike Miller 14 Jan 07 - 02:18 AM
Joe Offer 14 Jan 07 - 03:11 AM
Joe Offer 14 Jan 07 - 03:49 AM
GUEST,Sheila 14 Jan 07 - 09:00 AM
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Subject: Where oh where is old Elijah?
From: GUEST,Sheila
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 02:35 PM

Can anyone help with the verses? What I recall is the title followed by "Way down in the promised land." Then, "By and by we'll go and see him" and "He went up in a fiery chariot." But I remember there were other verses as well. Daniel, perhaps?
Many thanks. Sheila


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Subject: RE: Where oh where is old Elijah?
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 04:02 PM

Hello Shiela.

In October 2004 I wrote a comment in the thread on "Paw Paw Patch" thread.cfm?threadid=42450#1306210 that Mudcat member WYSWYG had posted this fragment in an old Mudcat thread about gospel music:

Where, O where are the Hebrew Children!               
Where, O where are the Hebrew Children!
Where, O where are the Hebrew Children!
Safe in the promised land
-snip-

At that time, I wondered if this song was the source of the children's song "Way Down Yonder in the Paw Paw Patch". Because of the line "Where oh where is..." , it sounds like this could indeed be the source of that children's song.

Maybe this is the spiritual whose lyrics you are seeking.

I'll pm WYSWYG to ask her about this and alert her-if need be- to this thread. Hopefully, she may have some information for you.

Best wishes,

Azizi


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Subject: RE: Where oh where is old Elijah?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 04:48 PM

Sorry, no... I can't offer much at this time... Azizi, what was the old thread?

~Susan


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Subject: ADD: Where Is Old Elijah?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 05:18 PM

    Where Is Old Elijah?

  1. Where O where is old Elijah?
    Where O where is old Elijah?
    Where O where is old Elijah?
    Way over in the promised land.

  2. He went up in a fiery chariot...
  3. Where, O where are the Hebrew children....
  4. They went up in a fiery furnace....
  5. Where O where is the bad boy Absolom*...
  6. He went up on the spear of Joab...
  7. Where, O where is poor old Daniel...
  8. He went up in a den of lions....


source: Camp Songs 'n' Things (1939), published by Songs 'n' Things, 1950 Addison Street, Berkeley 4, California (James J. Gillick & Company)
The format of this book is very similar to those published by Cooperative Recreation Services.

*Absalom is the usual spelling - the third son of David, who rebelled against his father. See 2 Samuel, chapters 13-18
This same version is in Carl Sandburg's American Songbag (1927), but with the following chorus after 2, 4, 6, and 8:
    By and by we will go and see him,
    By and by we will go and see him,
    By and by we will go and see him,
    'Way over in the promised land.

And the Traditional Ballad Index Listing:

Where Is Old Elijah? (The Hebrew Children, The Promised Land)

DESCRIPTION: "Where oh where is old Elijah? (x3) 'Way over in the Promised Land. He went up in a fiery chariot (x3) 'Way over in the promised land. By and by we will go and see him...." Unrelated verses on Biblical themes, e.g. "Where are the Hebrew children"
AUTHOR: Peter Cartwright?
EARLIEST DATE: 1832 (Sacred Harp)
KEYWORDS: Bible religious nonballad
FOUND IN: US(Ap,MW,SE,So)
REFERENCES (4 citations):
BrownIII 646, "Way Over in the Promised Land" (1 text)
Belden, pp. 457-459, "The Promised Land" (2 texts, 1 tune, the second text purporting to be a translation into an Indian language though neither Belden nor I can say which one)
Fuson, pp. 205-206, "Safe at Home in the Promised Land" (1 text)
Sandburg, pp. 92-93, "Where O Where Is Old Elijah?" (1 text, 1 tune)

ST San092 (Partial)
Roud #4213
CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "The Paw-Paw Patch" (tune & meter)
Notes: Elijah's transportation to heaven in a fiery chariot is described in 2 Kings 2:11.
Absalom's rebellion against his father David occupies 2 Samuel 15-18 (Absalom's death occurs in 18:9-18); the extended story of David's sin and its consequences, including the rebellion, occupies 2 Samuel 11-19.
According to the Sacred Harp, the tune is by Peter Cartwright (1785-1872), and is known as "Hebrew Children." No author is listed for the words, however, and the versions show strong variations. Fred W. Allsopp, in Folklore of Romantic Arkansas, Volume II, p. 160, says that it has been sung by "professional minstels." - RBW
File: San092

Go to the Ballad Search form
Go to the Ballad Index Instructions

The Ballad Index Copyright 2006 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.


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Subject: RE: Where oh where is old Elijah?
From: GUEST,Sheila
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 06:24 PM

Thank you all.
Azizi, there is indeed a remarkable similarity in music between the two songs. As I know them, Paw Paw Patch resembles 10 Little Indians except for the last line, and Where Oh Where has the same rhythm but begins on the "mi" in solfege.
I learned it as
                m m m r m s m d
                r r r d r r m s
                l l l s d' d' s m
                l. s md mr. d..
Does this make sense?

Sheila


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Subject: RE: Where oh where is old Elijah?
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 06:29 PM

"Does this make sense?"

Well, Shiela, since I don't know beans about reading music-even "solfege', and therefore-I started to write "and so"-your "m m m r m s m d' means nothing to me.

But I did understand your point that the tunes for "Paw Paw Patch" and "Ten Little Indians" are very much like "Where is old Elijah".

And that's good enough for me.

:o)


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Subject: RE: Where oh where is old Elijah?
From: GUEST,Sheila
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 10:27 PM

I read many of Azizi's very articulate and intelligent letters, and that's good enough for me, as well.

Sheila


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Subject: RE: Where oh where is old Elijah?
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 11:02 PM

Thanks Shiela. I very much appreciate your comment.

Unexpected compliments are the best kind.

**

A little over two years ago, when I posted here as a guest, a member encouraged me to join and I did so. I've learned a lot since then.

If you aren't a Mudcatmember yet, please consider joining. Mudcat membership is free and it's easy to join. Just click on the Membership link in the right hand corner above and follow the steps as outlined.

And then you can share, learn, and enjoy yourself as a Mudcatter!

Positive vibrations,

Ms. Azizi


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Subject: RE: Where oh where is old Elijah?
From: Alba
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 11:20 PM

Really interesting post Joe Offer,
Much appreciated.
Jude


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Subject: ADD Version: Way Over in the Promised Land
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 12:38 AM

Here's another version:

#646, The Frank C. Brown Collection of North Carolina Folklore:

WAY OVER IN THE PROMISED LAND
'This is a 'white' spiritual," says Dr. White. "See The Hebrew Children, Southern Harmony and Musical Companion (1847), and quoted in ANFS 429." See also Jackson WYS 202-3, who prints versions with music and cites several other collections containing the song, among them the Georgia Sacred Harp (1844 ed.); and Southern Plantation Spirituals, collected by Betty Kendall, Musical Settings by Mildred K. Schulze (Washington, D. C., 1929), pp. 6-7. Cf. also Sandburg, American Songbag 92-3.

From Miss A. Henderson, Worry, Burke county undated, but c. 1914-15.

Way Over in the Promised Land

Where, oh, where is the prophet Daniel,
Where, oh, where is the good old Daniel.
Who was cast in the den of lions
Way over in the promised land.

Chorus:
By and by we'll go to meet him,
By and by we'll go to meet him,
By and by we'll go to meet him,
Way over in the promised land.

Where, oh, where is the good Elijah,
Where, oh, where is the good Elijah.
Who went to heaven in a chariot of fire?
Way over in the promised land.

Where, oh, where are the Hebrew children,
Where, oh, where are the Hebrew children,
Who were cast in the fiery furnace?
Way over in the promised land.


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Subject: ADD Version: The Promised Land
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 01:56 AM

The Promised Land

Where, oh where are the good old patriarchs?
Where, oh where are the good old patriarchs?
Where, oh where are the good old patriarchs?
Safely over in the promised land.

Where, oh where is father Abraham?
Where, oh where is good old Moses?
Where, oh where are the Hebrew Children?
Way over in the promised land.

By and by we will go and meet them,
By and by we will go and meet them,
By and by we will go and meet them,
Way yonder in the promised land.

Where, oh where is father Abraham?
Where, oh where is good old Moses?
Where, oh where are the Hebrew Children?
Way over in the promised land.
By and by we will go and meet them, etc.

Where, oh where is good old Shadrach?
Where, oh where is good old Meshach?
Where, oh where is good old Abednego?
Way over in the promised land.
They went through the fiery furnace,
They went through the fiery furnace,
They went through the fiery furnace,
Way over in the promised land.
By and by we will go and meet them, etc.

Where, oh where is the Virgin Mary?
Where, oh where is the Virgin Mary?
Where, oh where is the Virgin Mary?
Way over in the promised land.
She went through much tribulation,
She went through much tribulation,
She went through much tribulation,
Way yonder in the promised land.

By and by we will go and meet her,
By and by we will go and meet her,
By and by we will go and meet her,
Way over in the promised land.


Source: Ballads and Songs Collected by the Missouri Folk-Lore Society, H.M. Belden, 1940 & 1955


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Subject: RE: Where oh where is old Elijah?
From: GUEST,Mike Miller
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 02:18 AM

When I was a student at Central High in Philadelphia (210 class), we used that song as part of the year end ceremony of graduation. Every class sat in the auditorium the oldest in front. As each class was sung about, they left their seats and were replaced by the class just behind them.

Where, oh, where are the grave old seniors
Where, oh, where are the grave old seniors
Where, oh, where are the grave old seniors
Safe, now, in the wide, wide world.

By and by, we'll go out to meet them
By and by, we'll go out to meet them
By and by, we'll go out to meet them
Safe, now, in the wide, wide world.

The seniors would, then vacate their seats and the juniors would replace them as we sang,

Where, oh, where are the gay, young juniors
Where, oh, where are the gay, young juniors
Where, oh, where are the gay, young juniors
Safe, now, in the senior class.

And, then, in turn the sophs and the frosh got sung and moved. It was, literally and figuratively moving ritual.


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Subject: ADD Version: Hebrew Children
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 03:11 AM

Number 133 in the Sacred Harp book looks like the same song:

Hebrew Children

Tune: B. F. White, 1844
Meter: Particular Meter: 7,6,8,8,8,6

Where are the Hebrew children?
Safe in the promised land.
Though the furnace flamed around them,
God, while in their troubles, found them;
He with love and mercy bound them,
Safe in the promised land.

Where are the twelve apostles?
Safe in the promised land.
They went up through pain and sighing,
Scoffing, scourging, crucifying,
Nobly for their Master dying,
Safe in the promised land.

Where are the holy Christians?
Safe in the promised land.
Those who've washed their robes and made them
White and spotless pure and laid them
Where no earthly stain can fade them,
Safe in the promised land.


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Subject: ADD Version: Hebrew Children (Southern Harmony)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 03:49 AM

There's also a version in Southern Harmony:
    Hebrew Children


    1. Where are the Hebrew children?
       (Repeat previous line twice)
       Safe in the promised land:
       Though the furnace flamed around them,
       God while in their trouble found them;
       He with love and mercy bound them,
       Safe in the promised land.

    2. Where are the twelve apostles?
       (Repeat previous line twice)
       Safe in the promised land:
       They went through the flaming fire,
       Trusting in the great Messiah,
       Holy grace did raise them higher,
       Safe in the promised land.

    3. Where are the holy martyrs?
       (Repeat previous line twice)
       Safe in the promised land:
       Those who washed their robes, and made them
       White and spotless pure, and laid them
       Where no earthly stain could fade them,
       Safe in the promised land.

    4. Where are the holy Christians?
       (Repeat previous line twice)
       Safe in the promised land:
       There our souls will join the chorus,
       Saints and angels sing before us,
       While all heaven is beaming o'er us,
       Safe in the promised land.

    5. By and by we'll go and meet them,
       (Repeat previous line twice)
       Safe in the promised land:
       There we'll sing and shout together,
       There we'll sing and shout hosanna,
       There we'll sing and shout forever,
       Safe in the promised land.

    6. Glory to God Almighty,
       (Repeat previous line twice)
       Who called us unto him,
       Who are blind by sinful nature.
       Who have sinned against our Maker,
       Who did send his son to save us,
       Safe in the promised land.

    7. Where is our blessed Savior?
       (Repeat previous line twice)
       Safe in the promised land:
       He was scourged and crucified,
       He by Romans was derided,
       Thus the Lord of glory died,
       To raise our souls above.


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Subject: RE: Where oh where is old Elijah?
From: GUEST,Sheila
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 09:00 AM

Thanks all, again. And Joe, you have helped me, as in the past, steer toward new venues. I never considered the association to the shape note.

Sheila


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