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BS: Smokers in the Workplace

SINSULL 13 Jan 07 - 04:38 PM
SINSULL 13 Jan 07 - 04:43 PM
skipy 13 Jan 07 - 04:44 PM
Alice 13 Jan 07 - 04:49 PM
Joe Offer 13 Jan 07 - 04:56 PM
Skivee 13 Jan 07 - 05:19 PM
Jeri 13 Jan 07 - 05:24 PM
Stilly River Sage 13 Jan 07 - 05:25 PM
GUEST,JTT 13 Jan 07 - 05:52 PM
Amos 13 Jan 07 - 05:59 PM
Leadfingers 13 Jan 07 - 06:01 PM
freda underhill 13 Jan 07 - 06:06 PM
Rapparee 13 Jan 07 - 06:12 PM
GUEST 13 Jan 07 - 06:16 PM
jeffp 13 Jan 07 - 06:24 PM
GUEST,Skipy 13 Jan 07 - 06:38 PM
jacqui.c 13 Jan 07 - 07:19 PM
SINSULL 13 Jan 07 - 07:25 PM
kendall 13 Jan 07 - 07:42 PM
Joe Offer 13 Jan 07 - 07:50 PM
Janie 13 Jan 07 - 07:53 PM
SINSULL 13 Jan 07 - 10:01 PM
Alice 13 Jan 07 - 10:04 PM
Rapparee 13 Jan 07 - 10:12 PM
number 6 13 Jan 07 - 10:17 PM
kendall 13 Jan 07 - 11:12 PM
GUEST,mg 13 Jan 07 - 11:30 PM
fat B****rd 14 Jan 07 - 05:43 AM
kendall 14 Jan 07 - 12:26 PM
Rapparee 14 Jan 07 - 02:12 PM
GUEST,Scoville 14 Jan 07 - 02:17 PM
SINSULL 14 Jan 07 - 02:43 PM
Slag 14 Jan 07 - 03:03 PM
Alice 14 Jan 07 - 03:13 PM
Rapparee 14 Jan 07 - 03:14 PM
Greg B 14 Jan 07 - 05:48 PM
TRUBRIT 14 Jan 07 - 06:11 PM
SINSULL 14 Jan 07 - 09:33 PM
TRUBRIT 14 Jan 07 - 10:38 PM
GUEST 15 Jan 07 - 07:57 AM
Scrump 15 Jan 07 - 09:00 AM
kendall 15 Jan 07 - 09:06 AM
Midchuck 15 Jan 07 - 09:56 AM
Rapparee 15 Jan 07 - 10:13 AM
Bagpuss 15 Jan 07 - 10:35 AM
Greg B 15 Jan 07 - 11:03 AM
jacqui.c 15 Jan 07 - 11:12 AM
number 6 15 Jan 07 - 11:16 AM
Scrump 15 Jan 07 - 11:24 AM
Amos 15 Jan 07 - 12:07 PM
Stilly River Sage 15 Jan 07 - 12:51 PM
SharonA 15 Jan 07 - 02:51 PM
Paul from Hull 15 Jan 07 - 03:38 PM
kendall 15 Jan 07 - 04:36 PM
kendall 15 Jan 07 - 04:38 PM
GUEST,Becca72 borrowing computer 15 Jan 07 - 04:39 PM
GUEST,Marion 15 Jan 07 - 05:17 PM
MaineDog 15 Jan 07 - 06:46 PM
kendall 15 Jan 07 - 07:07 PM
GUEST,JTT 15 Jan 07 - 07:33 PM
GUEST 16 Jan 07 - 08:25 AM
jacqui.c 16 Jan 07 - 08:42 AM
kendall 16 Jan 07 - 09:46 AM
Midchuck 16 Jan 07 - 10:14 AM
SINSULL 16 Jan 07 - 10:46 AM
katlaughing 16 Jan 07 - 11:25 AM
kendall 16 Jan 07 - 12:09 PM
ranger1 16 Jan 07 - 12:38 PM
GUEST 16 Jan 07 - 12:39 PM
Scoville 16 Jan 07 - 12:55 PM
katlaughing 16 Jan 07 - 01:00 PM
GUEST,mg 16 Jan 07 - 01:22 PM
catspaw49 16 Jan 07 - 01:37 PM
Rapparee 16 Jan 07 - 03:21 PM
jacqui.c 16 Jan 07 - 04:59 PM
Bill D 16 Jan 07 - 05:22 PM
SINSULL 16 Jan 07 - 09:06 PM
Alba 16 Jan 07 - 10:47 PM
SINSULL 16 Jan 07 - 11:23 PM
Alba 17 Jan 07 - 04:51 AM
Alba 17 Jan 07 - 05:08 AM
Jeri 17 Jan 07 - 06:47 AM
Midchuck 17 Jan 07 - 07:46 AM
catspaw49 17 Jan 07 - 08:02 AM
kendall 17 Jan 07 - 08:03 AM
kendall 17 Jan 07 - 08:05 AM
Midchuck 17 Jan 07 - 10:14 AM
Scrump 17 Jan 07 - 10:23 AM
GUEST 17 Jan 07 - 12:56 PM
jacqui.c 17 Jan 07 - 01:44 PM
Wesley S 17 Jan 07 - 02:01 PM
SharonA 17 Jan 07 - 06:18 PM
Rapparee 17 Jan 07 - 09:34 PM
TRUBRIT 17 Jan 07 - 10:16 PM
kendall 17 Jan 07 - 10:31 PM
kendall 18 Jan 07 - 08:00 AM
jeffp 19 Jan 07 - 10:00 AM
Scrump 19 Jan 07 - 12:47 PM
SharonA 08 Feb 07 - 04:28 PM
The Villan 08 Feb 07 - 05:19 PM
TRUBRIT 08 Feb 07 - 09:10 PM
*daylia* 09 Feb 07 - 07:42 AM
fumblefingers 09 Feb 07 - 09:25 PM
Midchuck 09 Feb 07 - 09:40 PM
fumblefingers 09 Feb 07 - 11:25 PM
*daylia* 10 Feb 07 - 07:54 AM
Midchuck 10 Feb 07 - 10:04 AM
*daylia* 11 Feb 07 - 06:55 AM
fumblefingers 12 Feb 07 - 02:30 AM
GUEST,have a CRY ;( 12 Jun 07 - 09:54 AM
Stilly River Sage 12 Jun 07 - 11:34 AM
Bill D 12 Jun 07 - 12:06 PM
Captain Ginger 12 Jun 07 - 12:08 PM
TRUBRIT 12 Jun 07 - 10:52 PM
Sorcha 12 Jun 07 - 11:16 PM

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Subject: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 04:38 PM

Some of you know that I started a new job two weeks ago. It requires that I work on Saturday, Last Saturday, I smelled smoke and asked if anyone was lighting up a cigarette? The answer was "No". All the sales men smoke but they do it outside.

Today I twice asked about cigarette smoke and finally went to the back desk where my manager was sitting with the Customer Service manager and said "I smell smoke. It is making my eyes water. They said Brian was smoking. Brian said no it was coming in from an outside vent.
So I go back to my desk. A few minutes later the Customer Service manager comes to my desk and says "I am going to light up. Is it really a problem for you?" I guess she expected me to say it was OK because she had asked but by this time I was feeling ill. I said "Do not light it in here. You are making me sick." So she went to the other side of the partitions and lit up.
I was pissed. By now I am coughing up shit, my nose is running and I can't breathe.
So I went outside to try and clear my chest. When I came back my manager called me over and said that I could leave early because they were smoking inside (heh heh "I know we shouldn't) and I shouldn't have to sit in there.
What the F**K????
So I am home with a sore throat, a runny nose, a cough and a very nasty attitude.

Apparently I am the bad guy for not being a team player and letting them smoke.

Am I being unreasonable?
SINS cough cough


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 04:43 PM

Note: when I interviewed for the job I understood that I would be the only female sales person. Consequently, the guys might get a little rowdy. I agreed that this was to be expected in a high pressure sales job and that not only would I not take offece but I would give as good as I got. Nothing was mentioned about smoking. Had it been I wouldn't have accepted the job nor would I have gone running to a lawyer about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: skipy
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 04:44 PM

No you are NOT repeat NOT being unreasonable, but if you are on as 12 week probation or simillar, you will not make it to the end.
Keep a diary, take the odd photo if you can.
They are taking the piss!
Go for it.
Skipy


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Alice
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 04:49 PM

I'd be angry. Do whatever you can, but that may be looking for another job if the manager is all part of the problem.

Good luck!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 04:56 PM

What's the law where you work, SINSULL? Here in California, it's illegal to smoke in almost all public buildings and workplaces, and it's getting hard to remember what it was like when smoking at work was legal. I have a 50-yr-old Selective Service System file cabinet I received when our office closed, and it still has a grimy smoke film on it that's almost impossible to remove. When I was working, I was constantly trying to give up smoking, but a heavy smoker sat at the desk next to me and was always offering me cigarettes. I finally quit in February 1993, about the time he retired. Was his retirement the reason for my quitting - or was it the pretty brunette who said my love life would improve if I quit smoking?

I loved cigarettes, but I always tried to be polite about my smoking. Still, I smoked in the office because nobody seemed to mind and it was allowed. Now I can't imagine smoking inside, although I do bum a cigarette from somebody about once a year.

-Joe Offer, whose love life HAS improved-
(but not with THAT brunette)


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Skivee
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 05:19 PM

I once worked in a photolab owned by a compulsive chain smoker. I'm convinced that part of the reason the lab closed was because folks were put off by the smell of his smoke everywhere. This is a shame, because he was basically a good guy who worked hard at it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 05:24 PM

Smoking in the workplace is illegal in Maine. Workplace Smoking Act of 1985 (PDF). My guess is they let you go home early because they knew they screwed up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 05:25 PM

It doesn't take much smoke to make me sick, and I'm annoyed to go into restaurants with a "non-smoking" section polluted by smokers across the room. Given an option of a non-smoking place to eat I would never go into one of these places.

You're up against the Good Ol' Boy network. You'll probably go out the door before long, but you can take a couple of them with you if you keep notes and file a grievance.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 05:52 PM

Heard a doctor from the Irish Heart Foundation on the radio the other day. He was saying that the rate of sick leave for respiratory infections among bar staff had gone down by two-thirds since the 2004 ban on smoking in the workplace in Ireland.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Amos
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 05:59 PM

This time of year in Maine, make 'em go outside, like Joe says. You can watch them keel over because they can't figure out when they've finished exhaling.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 06:01 PM

Got a Digital Camera ? If NOT , Borrow one ! And keep notes ! If THEY are breaking the law you have a bloody good effective unfair dismissal claim , if nothing else !


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: freda underhill
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 06:06 PM

Smoking in the workplace is illegal in Australia - to protect employers from liability claims by employees for illnesses arising from passive smoking.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 06:12 PM

Damned right! Keep notes, take photos. If you really want to do the evidence right, forget the digital and use a 35mm. Then take the film cassettes to a reputable processor, or better yet, give them to your lawyer undeveloped and show a trail of evidence (you can use a "disposable camera" if you wish).

With the film camera there can be no dispute about "well, she used photoshop and fooled with the pictures!" If you can have someone swear that "yes, these are the photos I developed" they have very little to stand on.

Try to get a calendar or other means of dating the picture in the photo as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 06:16 PM

JTT, bet you believe all that you raed in the papers too!
Skipy


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: jeffp
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 06:24 PM

Do you have conflicting numbers, Skipy?


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: GUEST,Skipy
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 06:38 PM

Not at all, where are the numbers? are we talking from 3 down to one?
Is this just recorded from their phonecalls when they failed to make it to work? What about the figures for :- I have a headache, toothache, bad back, period pains, the flu etc. etc.?
Skipy


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: jacqui.c
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 07:19 PM

You are definitely not being unreasonable here. They are the ones who are being unreasonable, and also illegal. Why should you have to put up with their wrongdoing?

In this position I would definitely take this higher. If necessary, get legal advice as well. Can't see any reason why you should have to lose the job just because these arseholes can't control their addiction!


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 07:25 PM

Deep breathing and a vodka tonic have helped me feel a bit better. I will sleep on it and decide what action to take on Monday. Whatever happens I will make it clear that I will not tolerate anyone making me ill. I will probably update the resume and look around meantime. Thanks for the advice and allowing me to vent.
SINS


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: kendall
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 07:42 PM

If you stay there, one of two things will happen. 1 They all refrain from smoking, but you will be the pariah and they will make your life miserable.
2 They will continue to smoke and you will be fired as a mal content.

Talk to the boss and if he doesn't do something, quit. You don't have to put up with that kind of ill mannered people commiting a crime.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 07:50 PM

I dunno. If it's just a few people smoking, others will be grateful to you for getting them to stop. If the majority are smokers, you'd better start looking for a new job. The animosity will be worse than the smoke.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Janie
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 07:53 PM

I'm really startled to learn that any place in the US allows smoking in the workplace.

As you know, Sins, I am a smoker, but we all belong outside, behind the building and away from areas through which people have to walk. You should not have to tolerate this. Hope you are able to get the issue resolved. We smokers do not have the right to put a nail in anyone else's coffin.

Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 10:01 PM

Smoking in the work[place is illegal in Maine unless you have a separate vented office. He has but they choose to smoke in the general area but only on Saturdays when I am the only non-smoker. It will stop or I will quit. If I am a pariah, I too can get nasty. I am not stupid and have been listening carefully to office politics. For sure, I will not go through another day like today.

The other smokers all go outside.
Thanks Kendall. I think I needed to hear that it is OK to quit.
M


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Alice
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 10:04 PM

Yes, it is ok to quit. It is ok to find a place to work that is Healthy for YOU.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 10:12 PM

Adjournment is always in order and takes precedence. And it doesn't need an apology.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: number 6
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 10:17 PM

You are definately not being unreasonable. It's against the law to smoke in the workplace, public buildings, bars or whatever here in New Brunswick (Canada).

I'm a smoker myself and I respect the rights of non-smokers, and these laws. I don't smoke inside my house (out on my back garden is my designated smoking area) and I don't smoke in my car.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: kendall
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 11:12 PM

Quit is the wrong word. It implies that you can't cut the mustard.
Resign.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 11:30 PM

They know the law and they might grumble a bit but I bet if you say you are allergic to smoke and assumed it not part of the job environment that they will go outside on Saturdays..especially if they are already doing it other days of the week...mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: fat B****rd
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 05:43 AM

Hello, Sinsull. I've smoked for years but will avoid eating out in a place where smoking is allowed and I will even walk away from people smoking in the street. I usually only smoke in my OWN home which I consider my privilege.
I agree with you completely about your "workmates" and wish you luck.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: kendall
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 12:26 PM

You may have to ask yourself if you really want this job. Smokers are among the most selfish people in the world.They believe that their addiction is more important than your right to breathe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 02:12 PM

The next time it happens tell them that the smoke will literally make you sick. When they light up anyway, throw up in their direction. A little syrup of ipecac will work wonders...and I'll betcha they won't smoke around you or anyone again!


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: GUEST,Scoville
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 02:17 PM

Seems to me that THEY are the ones breaking the law.

Smoking is illegal in most workplaces even here in Texas (not sure about the laws). I work for a huge medical complex and smoking is banned EVERYWHERE--even outdoors--on the grounds. They decided that made sense since it's, hello, a medical complex.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: SINSULL
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 02:43 PM

I have had 24 hours to get past my anger. It is never good to throw a hissyfit. So tomorrow I will have a private meeting with my manager and get his assurance that this will not happen again. No assurance, I leave and contact upper managemenr re: my resignation.

I am allergic to certain brands of cigarettes. All are obnoxiuos but some make me physically ill. I still feel as if I am coming down with a cold - heavy chest and coughing.

Any comments about my heavy chest and I will smack the perpetrator.
SINS


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Slag
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 03:03 PM

I can't wait 'til they outlaw the evil weed altogether. Smoking has thankfully become so rare in most of CA that it is unusual to smell it. Sometimes I'll be behind a car in which someone is smoking and it stinks so bad I will either pass them if practical or drop back several hundred yards. Gaaaa! I can't believe that I actually smoked myself when I was a kid (until 18, 2 1/2 pkgs a day, no less!).


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Alice
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 03:13 PM

Good luck, Sins.
We are behind you all the way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 03:14 PM

I figure that it's your decision, but like lots of other decisions you shouldn't foist the effects OR aftereffects off on me. I see no reason why, for example, I should support you if you disregard your health -- but if your actions damage MY health I think that you bear responsibility.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Greg B
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 05:48 PM

What I sometimes find fascinating is that office politics have become
shaped by smoking since smokers have been segregated to the loading
docks for their bi-hourly (more like hourly) 'butt-breaks.'

The smokers shoot the breeze together on a regular basis, become
fast friends, and then begin to circle their professional wagons
to the point where they develop close professional relationships.

Whole departments get formed of these tobacco addicts.

Hey SINS, maybe you should cultivate the art of lighting up GOOD
tobacco (like 10-dollar cigars) yourself, and fire up one of them
stogies. I never smoked a thing until I tried one of 'em to keep
the mozzies away at a late night airport party. Discovered, at the
age of 40, that Winnie Churchill had something there, and now get
through maybe half of one fine cigar per month during the summer. But
geez, the second-hand from those things is like Pittsburgh at
it's smokiest! Fight fire with smoke!

I think it's the horrible junk in cigarette tobacco which causes
most of the immediate ill effects.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 06:11 PM

Sinsull - years ago, we had seats assigned on a plane but the type of plane changed and I was seated one row in front of the smokers' section.   I told the steward/ess that I would be physically ILL if I had to sit there - was actually not pleasant about it - but I was moved. And I would have been ill if they had left me in that seat. I hate cigarette smoke. As Kendall said, resign....with dignity and sue the barstards (if you feel inclined).


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: SINSULL
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 09:33 PM

Reminds me of a very unpleasant flight when I was in that same seat. The man behind me lit up a cigar. I called the stewardess and she asked him to put it out. He refused.
So I stood up in the aisle and stood beside him. He finally got annoyed and demanded to know what I was doing. I told him I was going to throw up and when I did it would be on him.
He put out the cigar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 10:38 PM

And THAT is the way to handle that kind of unpleasantness and discourtesy.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 07:57 AM

What amazes me is the number of people who drive cars, live in horribly polluted cities, to which they have probably cintributed, yet they are practically dead from the smoke of one cigarette. Perhaps you are just allergic to bad habits other than your own ?
I am not a smoker but I find this "smoke" hysteria very strange considering the horrid habits that we tend to ignore.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 09:00 AM

The point about smoking is that it's totally unnecessary, whereas pollution from vehicles is a consequence of 21st century life (until we run out of fuel and go back to walking, cycling or riding horses).

Yes, pollution from vehicles is a bad thing, but it doesn't somehow make smoking 'better by comparison', IMO.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: kendall
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 09:06 AM

Guest, your analogy is like saying, "I already have the clap. I might as well catch syphillis too."


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Midchuck
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 09:56 AM

Sins, pray that the boss makes a comment about your "heavy chest." Then you've got a sexual harassment case, and you won't need a job again in this life.

Of course you'd have to document it. Do you know anyone who can loan you a leetle recorder to have on when you go talk to the big boss?

Peter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 10:13 AM

Radio Shack. About $30 US.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Bagpuss
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 10:35 AM

Sinsull - just watch you don't end up near Ben Kingsley's character from SEXY BEAST:

(AS = Air Steward; * = Ben Kingsley; P = passenger)

"AS - Sir, I'm afraid you can't smoke.
*What? What do you want?
AS - Your cigarette, you have to put it out.
*Cigarette? What, this?
*No, I'm not gonna.
AS - You must.
*Why's that?
AS - If you don't, we can't take off.
*Well, that's your problem, innit?
*It's your move.
AS - I'm afraid...
*I won't put it out, just wait till I've finished it, simple as that.
P - Why don't you just put it out?
* You want me to cut your hands off and use it as an ashtray?       You prepared to let me stub it out on your eyeball? I'll put it out. Agreeable?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Greg B
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 11:03 AM

Back when you could smoke in the office, at IBM, but
were required to ask if anybody minded, my friend was
in on this conversation:

Colleague: Mind if I smoke?
Friend:    Mind if I fart?


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: jacqui.c
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 11:12 AM

Peggy Seager wrote a wonderful song about that, called 'It's a Free World', on 'An Odd Collection'. Priceless!


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: number 6
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 11:16 AM

Very good Greg B !!

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 11:24 AM

The Bob Newhart sketch "Introducing Tobacco to Civilisation" always makes me laugh - it makes you realise just how stupid smoking is.

If smoking had never been discovered, and someone today tried to introduce it, can you imagine what would happen if he or she tried to light a cigarette in a public place? They'd probably be arrested and taken for psychiatric tests :-)

I did once think of starting a new 'habit', which I would call 'spraying'. I would go into a pub or other public place with one of those 'mist' sprays you use for houseplants, and start spraying it around the room. People would probably ask me to stop straight away, and say it was antisocial - even though water is a lot less harmful to people's health than tobacco smoke. Funny old world, ain't it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Amos
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 12:07 PM

I don't think smoking caused your heavy-chest thing, Mary. Mebbe yore Maw?


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 12:51 PM

Too much of anything isn't good for you. When tobacco was used intermittently in Indian cremonial situations, that was one thing. When Europeans came along and adopted the habit and turned it into an all-day every-day thing, it became something else entirely.   

Smoking caused deep hurt and long-standing bad feelings in my family. The offending smoker never apologized even after she had to quit cold turkey because she was about to lose her legs to Buerger's Disease. They removed blocked arteries to her legs and put in dacron arteries. As a child I felt helpless to get away from that foul smell and was scolded for complaining. As an adult I am fierce about defending my free breathing space from smokers. My childhood bedroom was regularly invaded by it and it was not permitted to ask the smoker to not smoke even in there. If I choose to stand outside and talk with a smoking friend I always find a way to stand upwind from the smoke.

This is a habit in which until recent years (the last couple of decades) smokers felt entitled to light up wherever they had the urge. There are a lot who still don't get it. I cringe every time I see a parent driving a vehicle with children, the lit cigarette in view in the driver's hand. I want to give them a dope slap and ask what on earth they think they're doing to their children? I saw a boy at a Girl Scout meeting, years ago, sitting beside his mother and quietly scooting down the bench from her. When he could, he reached over and pushed her ashtray her direction, as far away as he could manage. We made eye contact, and I saw in that six-year-old's eyes the same fear of the smoker's response that I knew from home. Offering him a sympathetic smile wasn't enough, I should have addressed his mother and pointed out that her son didn't like her smoking and asked her to put that cigarette out in the Girl Scout building. (I didn't have that job long--and if I'd made that request I'd have been out even faster!) Now I wouldn't be shy about making that request.

You decide to defend yourself and you choose what fights are worth fighting. You're a new employee, but you are an employee. If they do find a way to not keep you past your probation period, then tell them they need to be honest in their job advertisement--hire smokers only so they can tolerate the workplace.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: SharonA
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 02:51 PM

Good luck with your private meeting with your manager today, Sinsull. As others have said, you are NOT being unreasonable... but since your manager already has been, I have much doubt as to whether she will suddenly do a 180 and magically become reasonable.

Her having asked you (sarcastically??) whether it "really" bothered you before lighting up in the room, having received a negative response from you, and then blatantly doing what she knew would make you feel more ill (not to mention that she knew it was against the company rules) is, to me, reprehensible. IMO she should be reported to upper management, no matter how short a time you've been with the company. Who knows how many other complaints have been logged against her before you got there -- yours may be the straw that breaks the Camel's back.

As others say, be prepared to document future offenses from this manager -- not just the smoking but other instances of her disregard for company policy and the well-being of those she manages. Perhaps you should get one of those smoke zappers and get a camera-phone recording of it zapping and snapping at your desk while the plume of smoke rises from the other side of the partition.

Or perhaps, next time her smoke makes your nose run, you could use papers from her in-box as a Kleenex. Just a thought.

Sharon


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 03:38 PM

SharonA, papers from Sinsull's boss's outbox would better serve the purpose....*WG*


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: kendall
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 04:36 PM

Yes, she does have access to a small tape recorder.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: kendall
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 04:38 PM

In some states it is illegal to tape someone without their knowledge. In others, it is legal if one of them knows. Well, DUH!


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: GUEST,Becca72 borrowing computer
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 04:39 PM

SharonA, this goes far beyond "company policy". This is a clear violation of Maine State LAW, which does not allow smoking in any workplace.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: GUEST,Marion
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 05:17 PM

I think the real rights dilemma is when one person's workplace is another person's home (maids, nannies, visiting nurses etc.).

Marion


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: MaineDog
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 06:46 PM

I used to work in a place where smoking was forbidden by company policy as well as state law. However, the union contract that was still in force said nothing about smoking, soooo --- the union guys who worked at night would smoke whenever, and wherever they wanted to. My office was one of their favorite places, since it was right across the aisle from a shipping dock. They would sneak in, smoke, use my telephone, leave butts all over, etc. Complaining only made it worse. In some situations, it seems, there is nothing to be done. Maybe you could get your office moved?

MD


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: kendall
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 07:07 PM

Maine state law is way above union hubris.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 07:33 PM

GUEST, yes, I believe a fair amount of what I read in the papers, since I work in the industry and know how news is sourced.

If you're really convinced that a doctor from the Irish Heart Foundation is lying about the figures on sick leave for bar staff in Ireland, however, the information is available for all to see - you just have to go and hunt it out for yourself.

For those interested in finding out about the history of research on smoking, there's an excellent BBC documentary from the Horizon series called We Love Cigarettes - very funny, narrated by Bill Nighy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 08:25 AM

As for the suggestion that pollution from cars, etc is just the 21st century way of life does not make it ok or any less damaging. It proves the point that some peoples habits are a way of life (rather than life threatening) and other peoples bad habits are ,well, just bad habits. It is my sincere hope that early in this century the urban automobile will produce the same reaction that cigarettes currently do..it will happen..but perhaps not soon enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: jacqui.c
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 08:42 AM

Same old argument time after time.

Smoking cigarettes gives no benefit to anyone, not even the smoker.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: kendall
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 09:46 AM

Guest, what would we do without the internal combustion engine? Our whole society would collapse.
Should we go back to horses? They produced a pile of manure that had to be cleaned up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Midchuck
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 10:14 AM

Guest, what would we do without the internal combustion engine...

Well, we might spend some real money on research to develop a really effective and inexpensive battery or fuel cell so electric vehicles would be a practical alternative...A really cheap, and very rugged solar cell that we could pave roads and parking lots, and roof buildings with, would help also.

We could keep the internal combustion engine but go for minimum size and weight, to minimize both fossil fuel consumption and pollutant output. We need private cars to make our society and economy work, but no one, except a family of eight or ten who are traveling through a roadless jungle, needs a Ford Excursion or the like.

We could go for major improvements in public transportation, to bring it up to the level that they take for granted in Europe (but without so many strikes).

But none of those will happen as long as the oil companies and the American auto industry keep the cash flowing to our beloved Congresspersons.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 10:46 AM

Well, I met with my boss who seemed surprised that I was ill Saturday - he sent me home early because I was ill. He shrugged off the problem and said it wasn't an issue.
Then after a 9AM to 9PM day during which I met my sales quota, he called me in to tell me that I just wasn't an aggressive enough sales person and I should probably leave.
heh heh
I refused saying I would be in today. I won't.
As I said, and I told him, if he had made it clear that there were smokers in the office who might light up I would simply have not taken the job. I am not on an anti-smoking crusade.
Now I have to decide whether or not I will contact upper management about the this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 11:25 AM

I certainly would, Sins. We don't have much union activity to stick up for us these days. Anytime one of us stands up and says "No!" they help another down the line, imo.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: kendall
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 12:09 PM

Not an issue? He must know it's against the law to allow smoking in the work place!

Do you want to go peacefully, or to raise hell?


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: ranger1
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 12:38 PM

Raise hell, Mary. Contact upper management, chances are, you are not the first person who has had an issue with this. And point out that you met your quota and then you were told that you weren't aggressive enough. THEN I would most definitely rat them out to the state. There is a whistle-blower law in Maine, too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 12:39 PM

I did not suggest we do without the internal combustion engine. I am suggesting that the car is a convienence that most people are not prepared to give up in Urban areas. I am against smoking in Public places, I am also not in favour of the luxury of the car. I guess I just find it paradoxical that people who see smoking as practically a capital crime have no problem at all with poison delivered by their own cars.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Scoville
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 12:55 PM

And we're saying it's often neither a "convenience" nor a "luxury" (especially in the U.S.). It would take me HOURS to get to and from work by bus, and the bus lot where I would be in the morning & evening has been the scene of several assaults and attempted abductions. There are no good jobs near my house and I cannot afford to live downtown. Much as I would love to be able to walk or bike to work, I need the damned car. And yes, I DO have a problem with car-related air pollution, which is why I drive the smallest, most economical one I need. When Hell freezes over and the city builds an electric train line from my house to my job, I'll use it.

* * * * * *

SINSULL--go to upper management. They've already "warned" you about being fired on false pretenses, and the consensus seems to be that what they are doing is illegal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 01:00 PM

Show him just how aggressive you can be! Go after 'em!

Guest makes a lot of assumptions. What Scoville said.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 01:22 PM

Yes...go to upper management...mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 01:37 PM

Sic 'em.......kill......KILL.......KILL.......

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 03:21 PM

You can't scare me, I'm stickin' it to 'em
I'm stickin' it to 'em
I'm stickin' it to 'em
No, you can't scare me, I'm stickin' it to 'em
I'm stickin' it to 'em
'Til the day they learn.

I wonder what they think that "illegal" and "against the law" mean?

The Maine Statute on smoking in a place of business (there's more, but I'll let you look it up):

Title 22: HEALTH AND WELFARE
Subtitle 2: HEALTH
    Part 3: PUBLIC HEALTH (HEADING: PL 1989, c. 487, §11 (rpr))
      Chapter 263: OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC HEALTH
       Subchapter 2: SMOKING (HEADING: PL 1995, c. 470, §11 (new))
         
§1580-A. Smoking in places of employment (CONTAINS TEXT WITH VARYING EFFECTIVE DATES)
        
      1. Title. This law shall be known as the "Workplace Smoking Act of 1985."[1985, c. 126 (new).]
        
      2. Definitions. As used in this section, unless the context indicates otherwise, the following terms have the following meanings.
        
        
A. "Business facility" means a structurally enclosed location or portion thereof at which employees perform services for their employer. A business facility shall not include any workplace or portion of a workplace which also serves as the employee's or employer's personal residence. [1985, c. 126 (new).]
        
        
A-1. "Club" means a reputable group of individuals, including a veterans' service organization chartered under 36 United States Code, Subtitle II, Part B (2004), incorporated and operating in a bona fide manner solely for purposes of a recreational, social, patriotic or fraternal nature and not for pecuniary gain. [2005, c. 338, §3 (new).]
        
        
B. "Employee" means a person who performs a service for wages or other remuneration under a contract of hire, written or oral, expressed or implied. Employee includes a person employed by the State or a political subdivision of the State. [1985, c. 126 (new).]
           
C. "Employer" means a person who has one or more employees. Employer includes an agent of an employer and the State or a political subdivision of the State. [1985, c. 126 (new).]
           
C-1. "Member" means a person who, whether as a charter member or admitted in accordance with applicable bylaws, is a bona fide member of a club and who maintains membership in good standing by payment of dues in a bona fide manner in accordance with bylaws and whose name and address are entered on the list of members. A person who does not have full membership privileges may not be considered a bona fide member. [2005, c. 338, §3 (new).]
            
C-2. "Qualifying club" means a veterans' service organization chartered under 36 United States Code, Subtitle II, Part B (2004) that is not open to the public or any other club that was not open to the public and that was in operation prior to January 1, 2004. [2005, c. 581, §1 (new).]
            
D. "Smoking" means carrying or having in one's possession a lighted cigarette, cigar, pipe or other object giving off or containing any substance giving off tobacco smoke. [1985, c. 126 (new).]
[2005, c. 581, §1 (amd).]
        
      3. Policy; notice. Each employer shall establish, or may negotiate through the collective bargaining process, a written policy concerning smoking and nonsmoking by employees in that portion of any business facility for which the employer is responsible. In order to protect the employer and employees from the detrimental effects of smoking by others, the policy must prohibit smoking except in designated smoking areas. The policy may prohibit smoking throughout the business facility. The employer shall post and supervise the implementation of the policy. The employer shall provide a copy of this policy to any employee upon request. Nothing in this section may be construed to subject an employer to any additional liability, other than liability that may exist by law, for harm to an employee from smoking by others in any business facility covered by this section.

All enclosed areas of a business facility into which members of the public are invited or allowed are governed by the provisions of chapter 262.

The Bureau of Health shall accept inquiries from employers and employees and shall, when requested, assist employers in developing a policy.
[2005, c. 338, §4 (amd).]
        
      4. Violations. Any violation of this section is a civil violation for which a fine of not more than $100 may be adjudged, except that a fine of not more than $1,500 may be adjudged for each violation of this section in cases in which the employer has engaged in a pattern of conduct that demonstrates a lack of good faith in complying with the requirements of this section. The Bureau of Health has authority to enforce provisions of this section.[2005, c. 338, §4 (amd).]


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: jacqui.c
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 04:59 PM

In your shoes, whether I stayed with the job or left I would report them to Upper Management and to the State of Maine. At least that might stop someone else having the same problem and might just get through their thick heads thattheir behaviour is NOT acceptable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 05:22 PM

Well, I doubt you will be staying there, SINS...and I realize that it 'may' be more hassle than it's worth to file complaints, go to court...etc....but BOY, I sure wish that I could read that a company which flaunts the law like this - and gets rid of 'nuisance' employees by criticizing their sales techniques - could be fined and reprimanded formally!

I suspect that 'sales' people would, in general, be ruder and less compliant about the law than someone like a store where customers come in.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 09:06 PM

Spaw,
Are you off your meds again? Capital Punishment is out.
SINS


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Alba
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 10:47 PM

Sinsull.
Get the Bastard.
I would not think twice about contacting upper Management and Maine.Gov. and telling the eegit manager that I intend to take this matter a lot further than a shrug.

Make sure he gives you his reason for "letting you go" in writing.
Then show him just how aggressive you can be....! GO GIRLFRIEND!
Also if you let me know where this place is (I assume it is in Maine) I can arrange for someone to drop by one Saturday....really:)


As Spaw says.. kill. kill, kill and he is right (off his meds but right *grin*, indeed these morons are free to kill themselves if they wish but I wouldn't let anyone, anyone, screw about with my health in the workplace. They made you lose income by making you ill on Saturday and now this eegit would dismiss an employee so they can continue to break the Law. eh, Don't think so.

Nail the bastards Mary.
Jude....on a rant.....sorry


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 11:23 PM

I called today to say I had decided not to continue working there. I said I was not happy with how I had been treated, that I had in fact made my numbers when it was suggested I leave and I felt my complaint about the smoking issue prompted the second interview. Lots of back peddling. "I was just concerned that you were comfortable and happy. You can come back today if you want." He knows I intend to take this further.

I hate confrontations. It stems from childhood and a Catholic education. Why can't we all make nice?
SINS


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Alba
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 04:51 AM

I hate confrontation too Mary for exactly the same reasons but...
when it comes to certain issues I have learned (as I am sure you have to) to put my onner feelings to the side and just take the gloves off.
This would be one such issue.

Why can't we all make nice? Sadly Darlin the older I get the more I found out that some people just ain't got it in them.
tell ya sumthin fir nuthin though, I would rather confront a person that is an a**hole all the time than confront a kind and caring person that has been provoked to the point of action!

Good luck with all this Sins and PM me if there is anything I can do that you think may help you, although I suspect you will not require any assistance:)

Love
Jude


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Alba
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 05:08 AM

Oh and Sinsull not only would I put my onner feelings to the side I'd stick my inner feelings along there with them.....**smile**

Note to self: waken up and drink some Tea before posting...!:)


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 06:47 AM

Lawyers don't mind confrontation. Got one?

Seriously, my dad died, a year short of retirement, because of malpractice on the part of our family physician. I'm sure this could have been proven quite easily. Think my mom wanted to prolong the grieving and go after the son of a bitch? No way - she hated confrontation, and I understood her decision to drop it. One wonders if the guy killed subsequently killed anyone else, though.

You'd help people who came after you if you pushed the issue, and you'd get the 'good old boy', but nobody's going to die if you don't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Midchuck
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 07:46 AM

Lawyers don't mind confrontation...

I'm a lawyer, and I don't like confrontation. That's one of the reasons I was able to be a lawyer for nearly 40 years and never make much money.

Or maybe I should say I'm a folk musician who practices law for his day job. (Does that make me a "professional folk musician," like they're arguing so hard about in that other thread? I am a professional, and I am a folk musician...)

Peter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 08:02 AM

Yeah Peter but you seem to be saying that the thing at which you are considered to be professional, you aren't typically professional and the thing where you are not considered to be a professional, yo are professional at. Hmmmmmm.............................

Perhaps you have really played the law and practiced folk music......

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: kendall
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 08:03 AM

I am a fan of the tv show, Law & Order. A.D.A McCoy once said, "When you are raised by the Jesuits, you either conform or rebel". Sounds like they got to you too.

There's nothing wrong with walking away from a situation that makes you uncomfortable. I just did the same thing with the Scarborough Police dept. It wasn't what I was looking for, I was over qualified.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: kendall
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 08:05 AM

Peter, you are certainly not a typical lawyer. I always look forward to spending time with you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Midchuck
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 10:14 AM

Yeah Peter but you seem to be saying that the thing at which you are considered to be professional, you aren't typically professional and the thing where you are not considered to be a professional, yo are professional at. Hmmmmmm.............................

Perhaps you have really played the law and practiced folk music......


Spaw, if you say things that are that close to the real truth very often on this forum, you're going to completely ruin the image you've worked so hard to cultivate.

Peter


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Scrump
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 10:23 AM

Well, maybe you're right, GUEST, and cars should be banned. That's the only way people will give them up. Until then, the convenience of using a car will outweigh the environmental consequences for car owners.

Banning smoking is easier, because there would be no adverse effect on anything other than the tobacco companies and their agents having to close, and the withdrawal symptoms for smokers. Banning cars could not be done without first providing people with an alternative transport infrastructure, or alternative means of transport such as solar powered vehicles at affordable prices. Which is probably why nobody has yet tried to ban cars.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 12:56 PM

I take great exception to Kendals comment that smokers are the most selfish people in the world. I am a smoker and I do not expect anyone to put up with my smoking. This seems to be the attitude of a number of smokers who have posted here. I am quite sick of this crap about smokers. Sure, there are some assholes, but most of us are decent sorts, so get off your bloody self righteous kick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: jacqui.c
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 01:44 PM

GUEST 12:56

Kendall lost his voice as a result of cancer of the vocal chords caused By smoking. He has reason to hate the habit.

There are a number of very selfish smokers in this world. Read the first post on this thread to hear about some of them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Wesley S
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 02:01 PM

Most smokers that I've observed treat the world as their ashtray. Whenever they finish a cigarette they just drop it. Or toss it out the window. Even if they're just a few feet from an ashtray. Disgusting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: SharonA
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 06:18 PM

Mary, I was a bit confused when I last posted here. On reading your subsequent posts and rereading your first post, I realize now that the customer service manager who rudely lit up in the next cubicle last Saturday is a female, but is not your manager, and that your manager is male. Right?

Wonder if your manager and the CS manager have more than a business relationship...?

I hope you will indeed "take this further" and complain to the higher-ups about the two managers' behavior and about the male manager's baseless suggestion that you leave. Be fearless!

Sharon


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 09:34 PM

My wife's a lawyer and she's not practicing. Right now she's out with the Quilting Terrorists. I'll be gone this weekend and they'll take over the house.

Take up arms against this sea of troubles and by opposing, end them for others.

GUEST, I lost my oldest friend and the guy who was Best Man at my wedding to smoking-related cancers -- Bob died puking up his stomach lining and Steve with a hole in his throat through which he talked. I have COPD -- mild, because I smoked a pipe, but COPD none the less. My uncle chewed, and he died with his jaw rotted away by tobacco-caused cancer.

It's your choice, but I don't think that I should have to pay for your medical care either directly or via insurance rates.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 10:16 PM

Mary, take it further, take it further, take it further.....I know a good lawyer who would help you.......probably for free as he is very fond of you!!!!

Someone way back in the thread mentioned that with all the other pollutants in the air reacting so strongly to smoking was over the top. For myself, I don't care if people smoke -- I JUST DON'T WANT THEM SMOKING NEAR ME AND POLLUTING MY AIR. surely that is not an unreasonable request? Smokers can smoke in their homes, or in smoking rooms, or anywhere else it is allowed that does not impact non smokers...... The list of people I have lost to smoking related cancers includes my dad and a blood uncle........not nice. (By the way, as a realtor, let me tell you it is sooooooooo difficult to sell a house when you show it and the first thing you smell is cigarettes - a huge turnoff)

One of my daughters is dating a smoker -- I like him (kinda -sorta) but HATE the habit .. have offered to pay for a smoking cessation course and even offered a cash bonus for three months smoke free - but 'the readiness is all' and he is not ready. But damn it, he smokes near my daughter.......


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: kendall
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 10:31 PM

Guest 12:56, you are quite right. It is not a good idea to speak in absolutes because there are always exceptions.
Back when I was a smoker, I was sitting in the smoking section of a local restaurant, and there were four of us smoldering away. Suddenly, a man came over from the non smoking section and objected to all the smoke we were creating. We could have told him to get bent, but I noticed that he had two little kids with him, so, I put mine out, and the others did likewise.
I was wearing the uniform of the Falmouth Police department at the time, so didn't want to bring shame on the department.

So, there were 4 exceptions to my statement that smokers are selfish. Many are, some are not. OK?


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 08:00 AM

You made your point, and I clarified mine. Ok?


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: jeffp
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 10:00 AM

Scrump forgot a group of people who would be adversely affected if tobacco use were banned -- tobacco farmers. Here in Maryland, formerly a big tobacco state, the state government offered financial compensation for farmers to stop growing tobacco and switch to other crops. I believe it has been fairly successful.

Jeff (former smoker)


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Scrump
Date: 19 Jan 07 - 12:47 PM

Yeah, sorry I forgot the tobacco farmers. I guess I was including them in the 'agents', along with tobacconists and anyone else dependent on the tobacco industry continuing.

But anyone who depends for their living on tobacco would be advised to diversify if they can - e.g. try growing different crops, and gradually phase out the tobacco. It sounds as if the US govt is helping with that, so that must be good for the growers. Retailers probably already sell other stuff - you don't see many old fashioned tobacconists these days, where their whole business is selling tobacco, pipes, snuff, etc., but there are still some around. Most tobacco is probably bought from newsagents, corner shops and supermarkets (and filling stations).


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: SharonA
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:28 PM

So, Mary, whatever happened with your taking this matter further?


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: The Villan
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 05:19 PM

What a good idea if a law was brought in to say.

You will not smoke on the premises - instant dismissal if you do.

You will not be allowed to bunk off for ten minutes at any time to have a fag - if you do you will be fired.

If you want to smoke, do it at home. We expect you to work the hours you are contracted to do - if you dont, you will be fired.

That would sort the buggers out.

Go sort them out Sinsull.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 09:10 PM

So Mary -- how is the new job??????????????????


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: *daylia*
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 07:42 AM

True story, all about rude, ruder and rudest ...

A while back, an old acquaintance asked me out for breakfast. He's never been my first choice of company by any means, but it had been years since I'd seen him so I figured well, all right. He has no car, so I picked him up and we had a nice meal and an ok chat.   Fine. But waiting for the check, he struck up a conversation with the strangers at the next table, that went on and on and on and ON ....

Bored, I decided to go outside for a smoke and wait. There was no place to sit outside, so I got into my car, opened the sunroof, rolled the windows down and kept my arm out the drivers window like I always do when I smoke in the car. And while I was waiting, a transport truck pulled up beside me and sat there idling, billowing thick toxic black fumes all over me.

AAARRRGGGHHHHHH.....

Well, after a few minutes, between the noise and the fumes and the boredom I was about to go back inside the restaurant and haul him out by the short hairs. But I was spared the trouble -- here he came!   BUt he didn't get in the car -- he came up close and sat on the curb between me and that fumacious roaring transport truck. Tried to start up another yak session but I cut it off with "What are you doing??? I was ready to go 10 minutes ago. Get in, lets go!"   

"You're smoking" he said. "Can't get in the car while your smoking".

Well, I just couldn't believe me ears. Or my eyes. Ha!   Ha ha HA!!!    There he was, an oh-so-healthy-and-considerate-perfect-specimen of a- non-smoker, sitting on the dirty street with thick black toxic exhaust fumes curling around his head, and he won't get into the car because I am holding a cigarette -- not even IN the car, but well out hte window, (and right in front of his face as he sat there on the curb, as a matter of fact).

"Well, its up to you" I said. "I'm leaving. Stay here and take in these deisel fumes if you'd rather". And I started the car.

He got up off his butt and got in. A bit peeved, but oh well. Too bad. Dropped him off, and thats the last time I've ever heard from him.

Thank GOD!!!   

:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: fumblefingers
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 09:25 PM

Boy I'm glad I'm retired! This room is my workplace and I'll do as I please. If I want to smoke or dip snuff, it's my business. No anti-tobacco nazis or smell police here! Nya nya nya nya nya!


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Midchuck
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 09:40 PM

If I want to smoke or dip snuff, it's my business. No anti-tobacco nazis or smell police here! Nya nya nya nya nya!

So a person who considers it his inalienable right to blow poison gas in other peoples' faces, also considers it appropriate to label them Nazis if they complain.

Sam Hall said it best.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: fumblefingers
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 11:25 PM

midchuck--I'm talking about this cosy little room IN MY OWN
HOUSE. In here bubba, I pay the bills so I make the rules.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: *daylia*
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 07:54 AM

Ditto in my vehicle, on my property and in my home, fumblefingers.

Mind you, I do not smoke indoors anyway -- but this has nothing to with whining, complaining, manipulation, power-plays, political correctness, bylaws or anti-tobacco propoganda.

My living space is smoke-free because I like it best that way.

Period.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Midchuck
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 10:04 AM

midchuck--I'm talking about this cosy little room IN MY OWN HOUSE. In here bubba, I pay the bills so I make the rules.

Um. I misunderstood. Agreed. If you got no little kids.

P.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: *daylia*
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 06:55 AM

Here's another true story, speaking of little kids...

I was waiting for my son in the parking lot at the bank one fine winter's day, sitting there minding my own business, having a smoke, windows down, sunroof open as usual. THere's a family getting into a van on the other side of the parking lot, loading in Grandpa with his wheelchair, a few pairs of skiis etc. A little kid wanders away from the group and over toward me. He looks about 4. He stands there in front of my car staring at me for a minute. Then he said "You shouldn't smoke. Smoking is BAD."

I decide to ignore it, hoping it will go away. No such luck. "You shouldn't SMOKE! SMOKING IS BAD!! YOU ARE BAD!! ..." he chants on and on. Squelching the urge to throw something light but dirty at him, I finally look him straight in the eye, scowl up nasty as I can and tell him "You shouldn't talk to strangers. Its BAD!!!"

Shocked into silence, he hedges around for a sec and then says defiantly "I am NOT talking to strangers!!!!" And runs back over to his family in about 2 seconds flat.

Hee hee!   I think that kid is really going places, actually. He was pretty cute, and hey --- at only 4, he's already showing the same levels of intelligence and social smarts as the 44yr old in my last story!


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: fumblefingers
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 02:30 AM

Sounds like the little bugger is going to grow up to be another busybody who tells everybody how to live their lives.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: GUEST,have a CRY ;(
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 09:54 AM

ohhhhh i have allllerrrggyyyyy problems!!!!! i cant breathe around smokers... waaaaa have a bloody cry u fools, banning smoking indoors is great... and u do realize that nicotine is addictive! smokers cant just stop... why must u segregate smokers? so what ur lungs hurt... u dislike being around smokers, well i dont care, if u dont want to be around us! then dont, not like we are forcing smoking into ur face and cant get away. u all need to stop being bitches, stand up. u dont like that smoker! land a punch in his face... or otherwise stop having sookies on forums.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 11:34 AM

Looks like a stray text-messager drifted in and revived the thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 12:06 PM

about 17 & female from the looks of it. I always wonder how they ended up here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 12:08 PM

Hmm, smoking clearly does make some people retards!


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 10:52 PM

True, true -- and it is a foul habit. My son had a high school graduation party here yesterday -- about 50 kids and I SWEAR 49 of them smoked (including him I am sorry to say). They were very respectful about not smoking inside but the house was wreathed in smoke and as it was (finally ) a pleasant day, the smell drifted in. YUK.


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Subject: RE: BS: Smokers in the Workplace
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 11:16 PM

Oh well. Go breathe some motorway fumes. At work, I smoke OUTSIDE, 20' from the doorway. Can we now ban the whole outdoors? I'm sure someone would if they could


Has everyone forgotten Sir Walter? Perhaps the fact that the US gubmint in their stupidity actually subsidizes the tobacco industry? That the gubmints during WW 2 (possibly others, I don't know) almost forced their soldiers to smoke? Include them in rations, smoke em if you got em, pick em if you don't.

I don't 'like' the fact that I smoke, but I do. So be it. I do try to be 'respectful' about it, but when the Greenies try to picket the ONLY outdoor ashtray in a mile, and THEN moan about it, well, just don't ask what we said.

Look, once you are addicted, not only to the physical, but also the SOCIAL habit, it ain't that easy to quit. Besides, quitting is easy, it's not starting again that is difficult.

I'd rather talk to strangers.


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