BS: Adolf Hitler

Subject: RE: BS: Adolf Hitler
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Nov 07 - 09:43 AM

Its not that. we regularly have threads rubbishing people like davy graham, and ewan macColl.

its just abit disconcerting to find a thread asking us to look for the redeeming qualities of Adolf Hitler on the same page.

You can't help feel - perhaps the emphasis is wrong.

Well I feel the emphasis is wrong, anyway!

Subject: RE: BS: Adolf Hitler
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Nov 07 - 08:34 AM

My daughter made the point that one or another A.H. managed to persuade an awful lot of people that his way was right well before he gained the military muscle to push though things by force. As she is studying history and philosophy she therefore read Mein Kampf in order to increase her understanding how this happened. Now everyone assumes she supports the Nazis just because the book is on her shelf even though virtually every other point of view is also represented. It would be simple to throw the book away to reduce the problem, but that's just another variation of book - burning.

It is over-simplifying to just say Hitler was a bad man as if that's all there was too it. But its almost impossible to have any discussion beyond that without people assuming you are a supporter of him.

And just in case you fall into the trap of thinking I am defending the Nazi regime in any way: my sister lives near the Belsen-Bergen camp and I usually spend an hour or two there when I visit her. On one occasion we went with a German friend of hers who had offered some bread to a Jew when they were being marched into the camp. Straightaway, one of the guards cut off her arm with a bayonet. Stories like that highlight the reality of the regime.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolf Hitler
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Nov 07 - 08:20 AM

Hitler didn't live in a vacuum.

yeh pity about that!

Subject: RE: BS: Adolf Hitler
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 21 Nov 07 - 04:14 AM

Dictatorship is clearly best, but only if I am the dictator. Anyone else would make a hopeless hash of it. Who was it said that democracy is the worst way of choosing a government, except for all the others?

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Slag
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 09:08 PM

So what were the monarchs? Ruled by divine right. Face to the ground and "off with their heads" if you dared peeked. Yes, I know that that extreme was eventually moderated (in most places) by historical factors, not the least of which were mass printing and concomitant education. Yes, a benign and enlightened, caring dictatorship would be the best government: for the productive life-span of that individual and then...

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Amos
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 06:47 PM

dictatorship is the most efficient form of government

Efficiency? Seems to me doing stupid and destructive things -- even if done quickly and smoothly -- is highly counterproductive, and therefore no more "efficient" that dropping a match in your gas tank in order to efficiently justify buying a new car. Getting a bad job done is not efficiency, it's just clever insanity.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 06:15 PM

Let's face it- a dictatorship is the most efficient form of government. It's much simpler to get things done when there's no effective opposition. Sadly, there's no guarantee that the things that get done will be good things.

One of the glories of a democratic government is its difficulty in making drastic changes.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: GUEST,Mary
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 04:21 AM

I read that Hitler got money from Bush's grandfather and
others from America until the FBI stopped it.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Slag
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 12:34 AM

No he didn't and there sure were a lot of folks out seig heiling him when he addressed the masses.

I got to thinking about foolestroope and guest Steve's tet a' tet above and you know, it's a definitive thing among those who suffer from megalomania: whatever the perceived problem is, it's always somebody else's fault. If the afflicted person happens to be "Fearless Leader" then it's, what? the Jews? (ratta-tat-tat-tat) the Gypsies? (ratta-tat-tat-tat) the blacks? (ratta-tat-tat-tat) and__________ fill in the blank (ratta-tat-tat-tat). If they could possibly go on long enough they would wipe out everyone and even then were they to look in the mirror they would never see the one who was really to blame.

And thinking about that makes me appreciate the character and stature of George Washington who, in the tradition of Cincinnatus, walked away from power and all that seems to offer and returned to the farm. What a great American tradition! One term, two at the most and no more. No dynasties (Mr. Bush, Mrs. Clinton)! Get some one new in there. New ideas, new solutions, new directions upward.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 12:03 AM

Hitler didn't live in a vacuum.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Slag
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 05:21 PM

Excellent post GUEST Carl. Looking back on history can sometimes be like looking at a still life in a museum. We tend to forget that things were in a state of flux and very dynamic. Much was new and revolutionary. True colors were not flown. Secret alliances were made. The cards were held close to the vest.

In regards to some of the steam of the January postings I would just like to say that a discussion of Hitler's merits (if any) is just an academic exercise, a moot court, if you will. For any here to really suggest Hitler should be admired for something he did that went "right" is ludicrous or just "Troll chum". Those people DO exist, however. I've seen them in the news and in documentaries re the "Aryans" and so forth. I cannot believe that there are any among us and to suggest otherwise would be an egregious insult.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: GUEST,Carl
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 04:38 PM

The history of the evolving of the NSDAP is interesting. -I have read that prior to Hitler making a run at the Chancellorship, he had received campaign funding from the banking community -including some of the Jewish banking community. Then, at about the same time, or shortly after winning in the election with Hindenburg, the "International" organized Jews declare global (economic) war against Hitler/NSDAP Germany. I believe there was a front page headline story in the London Daily Telegraph (?) reporting on global Jewish outrage with Hitler. No doubt there were even some Jews who considered an NSDAP Germany better than a communist Germany. Certainly, many non-communist leaning German media had been frequently reporting on the Stalinist mass-murdering atrocities occuring at the same time that the NSDAP is growing and competing for popular votes against a growing communist population. The bankruptcy visited on Germany during the Versailles-Wiemer years produced a material deprivation in the public that makes things ripe for communist influence. Keynes pointed out there would be problems because of Versailles measures. There is a runour that Keynes estimated that it would take about 20 years for Germany to ultimately reject the Versailles measures and cease compliance.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: GUEST,Stevie D
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 01:37 AM

what ever, goodbye.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 06:57 PM

I am intrigued that you claim to be able to judge my intellect from just a few random written ramblings!

"nit picking"

Irrespective of anyone's intelligence and/or education - good discussion on any topic is not served by merely promoting one narrow viewpoint and ignoring many other well known ones.

"i am not the most eloquent writer of the English language"

Language and it's proficiency therein is just like any other musical instrument - the more practice, according to certain ruled based philosophy, the more technical skill achieved. Now I am aware some some people will never progress as far as others in some fields - for me , I hit the wall with calculus: even though I could 'intuit' and visualise what was happening, the ability to perform the maths was beyond me as i do not have a mind that could memorise and recall all the 'magic transformation' formulas. These days I am finding that my ability to type accurately is decreasing, and I rely heavily on my little ieSpell plugin.


"as my academic education was somewhat limited, but i have been round this world kept my eyes open, read books, listened to many peoples stories, lived and worked in different countries. i feel that this more than makes up for a lack of higher education."

I believe Mark Twain said that he never let his schooling interfere with his learning.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 01:29 PM

Hi foolestroop, no personal attack intended, just pointing out that the nit picking does not do anyone with your intellect any justice. thats all, and as i know, i am not the most eloquent writer of the English language, as my academic education was somewhat limited, but i have been round this world kept my eyes open, read books, listened to many peoples stories, lived and worked in different countries. i feel that this more than makes up for a lack of higher education.
So i apologise if you feel i personally attacked you, it was not my intention, ive never personally attacked anyone in my life, why would i start with a stranger.
Peace, the feeling is mutual, and Blind Lemon Steve its a mickey take on the great blues players of the past, i.e Blind Jake, Blind Lemon Jefferson. etc, well thats it for me now, i´m off, chat with you all on lighter topics....

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 10:51 AM

I now have 200/200 vision.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 08:23 AM

200

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 08:19 AM

200!

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 08:17 AM

"discuss the merits of Hitler ... go find yourself "one of those forums" out there on the web ... they will be more than willing to discuss those merits with you. We don't need this crap here on the Mudcat.
"

I tend to agree number 6. Especially since most of this type of contentious thread seem to be started by the anonymous, with lots of contributions from those with a particular axe to grind (many of them non-members) - and who don't seem to display a great deal of 'balanced thinking' but get very touchy if their particular worldviewpoint is 'threatened'.

Perhaps we should consider telling Max & Jeff that all BS threads should only be started by registered members. ???

Perhaps some threads such as this could be 'marked' to only be POSTED TO by registered members too? :-)

And while it is fun to occasionally 'shoot the breeze' with other musos - this IS a 'Music Forum' - and even though the BS area is a bit like a "Green Room" area - the place seems to be overrun with non-muso stirrers who often seem to have little use for the music area....

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: number 6
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 08:02 AM

"The other child is special needs. Hitler would have had her killed. "

Exactly Peace.

I should also add ... some of us members in the Cat, he would have had murderd.


As I mentioned ... if one wnats to discuss the merits of Hitler ... go find yourself "one of those forums" out there on the web ... they will be more than willing to discuss those merits with you. We don't need this crap here on the Mudcat.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 07:13 AM

"foolestroupe, must you take absolutely everything and turn it to make other people look like they dont have a clue what theyre talking about, its very pragmatic, and i´m sure it doesnt do you any good.

Personal attacks are not tolerated here at Mudcat I've been told and so this thread should now be closed?   :-)

"Do you honestly believe that i didnt know about the Mentally deficient, Gypsies, homosexuals etc etc. "

I'm NOT telepathic!

"was just pointing out the most persecuted"

Well I suppose 6 million is "more persecuted" than the 1-2 million or more 'others' - number unsure because no records were kept of many Russians and others - the main "numbers' come from the obsessive record keeping of those in the 'extermination camps' - we may never know just HOW many others were butchered.

"this is not an essay for gods sake."

... nor is this place intended as a forum for one sided dogma.

"and your line about my use of the word fascinating was just pathetic"

... just because you didn't think of it first...

"i only wish i were as perfect as you."

Marty?!!!!

"Oh Lord, it's hard to be humble,
When you're perfect in every way.
I can't stand to look in the mirror,
I get better looking each day
To know me is to love me.
I must be one hell of a man
Oh Lord, it's hard to be humble
But I'm doin' the best that I can"

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 06:58 AM

I was trying to figure out blindle monsteve. LOL.

Pleasure to meet you Steve. You are one heckuva nice guy.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: GUEST,Stevie D
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 06:45 AM

Hi All
This is all getting silly, i have had enough, Peace, i think we found some mutual territory, it has been great debating with you, you have one new friend to replace the one you lost. Slag, you are absolutely right, society should give more time to finding out what makes great people tick, but unfortunately that doesnt make good T.V or sell papers.
foulestroupe, must you take absolutely everything and turn it to make other people look like they dont have a clue what theyre talking about, its very pragmatic, and i´m sure it doesnt do you any good. Do you honestly believe that i didnt know about the Mentally deficient, Gypsies, homosexuals etc etc. i was just pointing out the most persecuted for a general discussion, this is not an essay for gods sake. and your line about my use of the word fascinating was just pathetic, i only wish i were as perfect as you.

See ya all soon with my new member name blindlemonsteve

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 06:17 AM

Yes, you are right.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 06:05 AM

More than enough to not be wilfully forgottne Peace. And he started on the non-Jews FIRST, before he was able to get away with actually starting on the jews...

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 05:57 AM

Yes. But not six million of them, Robin.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 05:55 AM

"At a high cost to the european Jewish community."

Ah - the 'kidnapping of history' again.... lest we forget the mentally deficient, the gypsies, the priests, the communists, any who did not support 'the cause', und so weiter...

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Slag
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 03:54 AM

Ok Peace. I'm gonna flip-flop now! On your side! I get really sick about the endless train of "entertainment" traffic on the telly about killers and serial killers, chainsaw massacres. blood and guts and the thing I really hate are the one's who depict the detective "GETTING INSIDE THE MIND OF THE PSYCHOTIC KILLER". Aaaaagh! that's the last place I want to be. It does not interest me.

I'd like to see more programing about getting inside the heads of successful people, helping people, uplifting people, good people, scientists and artists and healers, people who further the race of man. It's good to know your enemy but it's not good to become fixated on him. Wise and alert is good enough but the filling of our minds and our lives should be on the positive aspects of life.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 03:51 AM

I both agree and disagree, Steve. I think that it is important to 1) understand they were/are 'outside of sanity' in human terms, and 2) even figure out how they got to be that way. But I know it is anathema to me to discuss them in terms generally reserved for humans when 'feral' would likely be more accurate.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: GUEST,Stevie D
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 03:28 AM

Hi Peace, I now fully understand why you wouldnt want to discuss Hitler, and anyone who doesnt isnt worth your time.
As for Clifford Olsen and Charles Manson, they are worth learning about, i know that Ted Bundy is a serious point of discussion when studying to become a phyciatrist. I dont know where you come from, But In london there were a couple of Brothers called the Kray twins, they were evil beyond comprehension, but they took in the public. now they almost have cult status, If they had been politicians who knows what would have happened.i know places in East london where you wouldnt dare say anything about them, you would be lynched. But they are interesting to read about and learn about. Knowledge is power. you can get a balanced view if you try to see it from the other persons side.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 03:08 AM

I think for all the breast beating, those who want to investigate the Hitler phenom as if it were the smallpox have done precious little by way of investigating. So I maintain that this thread has been largely troll inspired. That impression is reinforced not only by the paucity of hard analysis or original thought but by the constant use of guest-names.

I think Communism and Nazism were (and are) pretty much the same thing, as if the evil left and the evil right met behind the back and shook hands. Both survived on exploitation, totalitarian terror, military domination of weaker neighbors, and Big Lies. The Nazi phenomenon was built on a pseudoscience of racism tied to a perverted survival of the fittest. The Communist world was built on a pseudoscience called Dialectical Materialism which among other things denied proper Darwinism (and had a racist element all its own).

People who met the Nazi leaders at Nuremberg were moved to remark on the 'banality' of evil.

Saddam used Stalin as his model to power. Both Iraq and Russia are going through Hell in the wake of their perverted leaderships, which spent years eliminating any viable alternates.

Watching Hitler speechify is an absolutely chilling experience. There was some speech he was making to the workers where he said something like progress in labor relations had been made difficult by the labor unions, "so I eliminated the labor unions"! It was hard to tell if he meant this humorously, sardonically, or as a straightforward progress report.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 02:53 AM

Hi, Stevie. I have discussed the Nazis with one of my children. The other child is special needs. Hitler would have had her killed.

What you say about Stalin is true also. His intentional starvation of millions of Ukrainians puts him beyond the human family, IMO. However, to say one guy is as bad as the other simply says they are equals. They belong to a club the world could do without. As to learning from them, yes. We could learn that it's best to seek and destroy things like that after the first few hundred murders. After the first few million, we then think we have something to learn from them. Funny how we don't see ourselves thinking we have something to learn from Clifford Olsen or Charles Manson. We just see them as mentally disturbed people. I simply see Hitler and Stalin in the same light.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: GUEST,Stevie D
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 02:39 AM

Hi Peace, I dont think that anyone would say that Hitler was admirable, likeable, or that they thought highly of him, its just an open ended discusiion on how Germany ressurected itself from the harsh treatment they recieved after WW1, of course really that is about Hitler and his henchmen. its understandable why people dont want to talk about him, and its for many different reasons. But as its been said in this thread, Stalin was responsible for just as many attrocities, and oppression of many more people,but talking about him would be ok.Maybe human nature makes the enemy of your enemy your friend. The truth is that Hitler was an evil little man with sordid little view, which unfortunately he was born in an era where people were so desperate they were looking for easy answers. probably a situation that most of us could never comprehend. He got lucky, the German people were conned the whole world learnt a valuable lesson. At a high cost to the european Jewish community.
But if we dont talk about it, if we dont discuss it and disect it bit by bit, and teach our children about what happened, how will they know when the next evil little dictator comes along, because you can be assured, the world isnt finished with these people yet. If the German people had had the knowledge we now have, Hitler would never have swept to power. As for Adolf Hitler as an individual, the only good thing he done was put a bullet in his head, shame it wasnt 15 years earlier and shame Joseph Stalin wasnt with him.
Also, a friend isnt a friend if they wont accept your views or opinions, dont worry about them Peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 02:39 AM

No doubt.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Slag
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 02:18 AM

Peace has encountered absolute evil! Hitler started life as a stinking disgusting infant with horns and a tail and whoy his mother just didn't stomp him to death there and then is beyond me. Why did that insensitive little bastard drink his mother's milk. If his father beat him whoy didn't he just beat him to death.

You really don't have anything good to say about Adolf Hitler? His art was shit? He wasn't a great artist but he was better thatn some who have appropriated that title.

Hitler was a phenomenon. He was a man in a moment of history. Time and circumstance had as much to do with it as anything. He caught the wave and rode it. He WAS the man in the moment. That is NOT a VALUE judgment. It seemed preternatural how he overcame obstacles and avoided calamity. And just so (not unlike Pompeii) when things turned, he could do no right (move). Not a value judgment. He was a phenomenon.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 12:14 AM

Stevie D: I misunderstood. My apologies to you and thanks for the explanation.

Fact is, I find nothing at all to like, admire or think highly of with people like Hitler. Too many times I have heard the ill-informed say things like, "He did some bad things BUT he got the economy going." He was a mass murderer, period. I did not yesterday, do not today nor will I tomorrow find anything about him worthwhile. Fatuous stuff like, "But how could a vegetarian DO something like that?" really gets my crank turned. He was shit as an artist, shit as a human and shit as a leader. The staging of his speeches was dramatic and planned. But not by him. He was just another small time piece of crap who decided to try and exterminate a whole people. Some folks here find it unreasonable that people like me can't sit and calmly discuss him. Let me ask this of those posters: How is it that you folks can?

I have lost two friends because of this thread, not that that will have any importance to anyone but me. However, I would gladly lose every friend I have before engaging in any discussion that begins with the premise that Hitler was human. He was trash. Period. And I will never see it any other way.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 07:40 PM

Pol Pot is definitely worth discussing. The more people know about the Khymer Rouge and their atrocities, the better. It might help stop it from happening again.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 07:37 PM

If you want to know why someone would want to be a Communist, I guess the best thing to do would be to read books about different people throughout history who decided to be. People like Che Guevara, for instance. There are plenty of good reasons why people do the things they do. It depends a lot on the circumstances around them. Most of the people who became communists did so because they genuinely thought it would help the oppressed people in their society and bring down the rich oppressors. And sometimes...it did. Depends when and where.

Communism, like anything else, can be used for good or evil. Same goes for capitalism.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 06:53 PM

"think my use of the word fascinating was wrong"

fascinating - describes the bird being stalked by the snake 0 the bird is fascinated...

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: GUEST,Stevie D
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 06:47 PM

Hi Peace
Just doing some reading, unbelievable stuff, thanks for the info, i´ll get back to you when i´m done.... see how talking about things works.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: GUEST,Stevie D
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 06:41 PM

Hi Peace
I will do some reading on pol pot, It seems that you mistook my last thread as an insult, i apologise if thats the case. i think my use of the word fascinating was wrong, i should have used interesting. but the sentiment in what i was writing was sincere.So i like to think that i am not ignorant. Also as of yet i havent actually become a member, but it is getting quite addictive, look out for new member "Blindlemonsteve"
Also, time to take a chill pill everyone, ive used this before, and i´ll use it again. this is all about opinions, and opinions are like belly buttons, everyones got one, none of them hold much water......

I am starting to feel that we might have exhausted The Hitler thread. But why on earth would anyone be a communist????

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 11:37 AM

"...Part of my job was to shred "confidential" documents,some of them quite old. In fact,I destroyed THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of "TRADING WITH THE ENEMY " forms, from the WW2 period, which shewed that,whilst Hitler was bombing the crap out of London,Coventry,& other English cities, for Uncle Sam it was "business as usual" with Adolf !!"

Only obeying orders, bubblyrat?

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: number 6
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 11:23 AM

BTW ... ya I do have fear of it all, how can it to be taken as a healthy approach .... I have held the hands of the survivors, listened to their silence .... so horrifying the memory did not leave them, so horrifying it was passed onto their next generation.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: number 6
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 11:14 AM

If you want to find forums that are relevelant to that era in history regarding Hitler, and his Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei there are plenty out there. They welcome any discussion regarding the contributions he/they made to mankind and history.

Personally I don't think there have been any facts hidden regarding it all and to put it bluntly I'm repulsed by a lot of this banter. Accuse such people as me as having a chip on our shoulders or this post as a knee jerk reaction ... so it be, but the likes of me are not attracted to the dark evil side of mankind. I'm sure a majority of people on this forum feel the same as me.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 10:59 AM

And post under your member name.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 10:55 AM

BTW, Stevie D, your disingenuous claptrap does little. What you have done is express your ignorance. I don't owe you a damned thing, and that includes doing your research for you. So be polite or bugger off.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 10:53 AM

His vision had great relevance to Cambodians. Do some reading and get back when you have, OK?

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: GUEST,Stevie D
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 10:30 AM

Hi Peace, Dont really know too much about Pol Pot, but did his philosophy or vision have any relevance to the world today....
Everything should be a point for discussion, just because its vile and immoral, not openly discussing and talking about these things just breeds ignorance. I want to listen and learn about everything, so go on, please ellaborate on Pol Pot.i´m sure your views will be fascinating.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 08:55 AM

Well then, using that logic, let's have a balanced discussion of Pol Pot.

Subject: RE: BS: Adolph Hitler
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 08:51 AM

"a genuine interest in political history"

Exactly. People who carry such a giant chip on their shoulders of foaming hatred for Hitler that they can't bear to even hear a balanced discussion about him or about those times seem to me rather like people who don't want copies of "Huckleberry Finn" put in libraries anymore because it contains in its pages the word word "N-----r"!!!!!!!!!!! (which is so terrible that I can't even be allowed to print it out in order to let you know what word I'm talking about...)

People whose massive knee-jerk reaction to something, in other words, makes them want to deal with reality and past history by simply denying massive chunks of it and pasting a huge red "X" sticker over top of them so no one can even see what was there.

That could be indicative of some really deep level of fear, couldn't it? I don't think it's healthy.

There ARE no Nazi sympathizers here, just people with a genuine interest in political history. Period.