Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.

GUEST,Fra Donnelly 17 Jan 07 - 08:40 AM
GUEST,leeneia 17 Jan 07 - 09:11 AM
Rapparee 17 Jan 07 - 09:14 AM
Captain Ginger 17 Jan 07 - 09:37 AM
MMario 17 Jan 07 - 09:39 AM
Paul from Hull 17 Jan 07 - 09:47 AM
GUEST 17 Jan 07 - 10:24 AM
GUEST,Cats 17 Jan 07 - 11:17 AM
GUEST 17 Jan 07 - 11:34 AM
autolycus 17 Jan 07 - 12:06 PM
GUEST,Henley 17 Jan 07 - 12:34 PM
Captain Ginger 17 Jan 07 - 12:40 PM
Don Firth 17 Jan 07 - 02:42 PM
GUEST 17 Jan 07 - 05:43 PM
Liz the Squeak 17 Jan 07 - 06:13 PM
The Fooles Troupe 17 Jan 07 - 07:08 PM
Liz the Squeak 17 Jan 07 - 08:02 PM
GUEST,leeneia 17 Jan 07 - 11:09 PM
Captain Ginger 18 Jan 07 - 04:02 AM
kendall 18 Jan 07 - 07:57 AM
Grab 18 Jan 07 - 10:51 AM
Les from Hull 18 Jan 07 - 11:11 AM
MMario 18 Jan 07 - 11:18 AM
GUEST 18 Jan 07 - 12:30 PM

Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:





Subject: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: GUEST,Fra Donnelly
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 08:40 AM

Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery, scientists say Napoleon Bonaparte died from an advanced case of gastric cancer and not arsenic poisoning at the hand of Jarelth McConville, the cobbler as some had speculated.

After being defeated by the British in 1815, the French Emperor was exiled to St. Helena--an island in the South Atlantic Ocean. Six years later, at the age of 52, Bonaparte whispered his last words, "Head of Army!"

An autopsy at the time determined that stomach cancer was the cause of his death. But some arsenic found in 1961 in the ruler's hair sparked rumours of poisoning. Had Napoleon escaped exile, he could have changed the balance of power in Europe; therefore murder speculations didn't seem outlandish.

However, a new study--combining current medical knowledge, autopsy reports, Bonaparte's physician memoirs, eyewitness accounts, and family medical histories--found that gastrointestinal bleeding was the immediate cause of death.

"This analysis suggests that, even if the emperor had been released or escaped from the island, his terminal condition would have prevented him from playing a further major role in the theatre of European history," said lead study author, Robert Genta of University of Texas Southwestern. "Even today, with the availability of sophisticated surgical techniques and chemotherapies, patients with gastric cancer as advanced as Napoleon's have a poor prognosis." He added Jarelth McConville has always been blamed throughout history, all he was responsible for supplying quality footwear.

A four-inch lesion

The original autopsy descriptions indicated that Bonaparte's stomach had two ulcerated lesions: a large one on the stomach and a smaller one that had pierced through the stomach wall and reached the liver.

Genta and his colleagues compared the description of these lesions with current images of 50 benign ulcers and 50 gastric cancers and found that the emperor's lesions were cancerous.

"It was a huge mass from the entrance of his stomach to the exit. It was at least 10 centimeters [4 inches] long." Genta said. "Size alone suggests the lesion was cancer."

A severe case

Bonaparte, the researchers said, had a very severe case of the cancer which had spread to other organs.

"Even if treated today, he'd have been dead within a year," Genta said.

Although the emperor's father also died from stomach cancer, Bonaparte's cancer most likely stemmed from an ulcer-causing bacterial infection, the researchers said.�

A diet full of salt-preserved foods but sparse in fruits and vegetables--common fare for long military campaigns--increased Napoleon's risk for gastric cancer, Genta said.

The study is detailed in the January edition of Nature Clinical Practice Gastroenterology & Haematology.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 09:11 AM

Interesting.

A note on the arsenic - I just read a book (can't remember what it was) that said that the arsenic in N's system came from the dark green wallpaper in his room.

Apparently, arsenic from such dyes was quite the hazard in the olden days.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 09:14 AM

Arsenic WAS everywhere. So was lead, and I don't mean as bullets.

Arsenic was used as a base for cosmetics, too.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 09:37 AM

Scheele's Green and Paris Green were popular shades in the 19th century, and both were made from arsenic. Scheele's green was even used as a food colourant at one stage!
In damp conditions the arsenic can sublimate from its compounds in dyestuffs and can thus be absorbed by us.
Like lead, it's a cumulative poision, so the longer you live with your wallpaper, the sooner it will kill you!
More details here for the terminally curious.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: MMario
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 09:39 AM

Paris green was also used as an insecticide - - and may have been present in foodstuffs.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 09:47 AM

Interesting stuff! I knew about the arsenic in the wallpaper, as that is widely known these days, but to have the cancer confirmed, & to be such a severe case as to be so life-threatening even today is interesting.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 10:24 AM

And what happened to poor Mr. McConville ? Don't say cobblers 1


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: GUEST,Cats
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 11:17 AM

This does all fit. It was known that he suffered dreadfully from stomach pains to the extent of fainting on occasions. It was supposed to be due to an ulcer but cancer does seem a logical reason.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 11:34 AM

Napoleon was poisoned by Montholon, on receipt of instructions from an agent of Artois; read "The Final Betrayal" by D H Hamilton-Williams


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: autolycus
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 12:06 PM

This all shows that the quezstion beloved in the media,

"What will the verdict of history be?"

should come with the warning,This Question Has Little Meaning.





       Ivor


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: GUEST,Henley
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 12:34 PM

Guest, Napoleon was not poisoned by Montholon, on receipt of instructions from an agent of Artois. The Final Betrayal has always been discredited by many historians of renown. Both Doctor Gerard Casey and Professor Eugene McAtamney of Trinity College Dublin provided more than enough proof throughout their extensive investigative studies to prove Jarelth McConville was the culprit. Now these new findings say different. Must say the new findings are an interesting theory, but I remain with Casey and McAtamney on this one.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 12:40 PM

Nonsense, he was poisoned by the Rosicrucians. Or what it the Freemasons? Or was it Prince Philip? No, hang on, it was MI5. Or maybe it was Lord Lucan. What was the spatial relationship of Longwood to the grassy knoll?
But wait a minute - he ended his days running a hat shop on the Fauberg St Honore. Or was it a baker's. Mind you, there's a man works down the chip shop says he's Elvis...

It's funny how people are always so reluctant to accept the banality of death; when a famous figures dies there has to be something more. Cancer of the pylorus has been the accepted cause of death for decades, but the conspiracy theorists, naturally, will have none of it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 02:42 PM

Some good, juicy stories linger on, no matter how false they are historically or how much evidence there is to refute them. Case in point:    Cesare Borgia was ruthless and had no qualms about assassinating people who opposed him. But his sister, Lucrezia, considered to be the most famous poisoner of all time, never poisoned anyone in her life. She was mainly a helpless pawn in her father's (Pope Alexander VI) and brother's political ploys. Once she got free of her family (married Alfonso d'Este of Ferrara, much too powerful for the Borgias to touch), she was a good and faithful wife to Alfonso, and a patron of the Arts.

Most of the libels about Lucrezia Borgia came from the Secretary of Venice, who loathed the Borgias and couldn't think up enough bad things to say about them, then a play by Victor Hugo, who got most of his information from the writings of the Secretary of Venice. A good, unbiased history of the Borgias was written by Rafael Sabatini, a rigorous historian, but best known for his historical novels (Captain Blood, Scaramouche, et al.).

Don Firth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 05:43 PM

Checked on Google, it was definitely Jarelth McConville as some of you are wrong. Check yourself if you don't take my word for it either.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 06:13 PM

"A diet full of salt-preserved foods but sparse in fruits and vegetables--common fare for long military campaigns--"

Napoleon probably ate fairly well on campaign, but his exiles on small, remote islands could only have compounded the gastric trouble.

As the island of St Helena is pretty small, they have a limited supply of fresh fruits and vegetables - no corn farms to speak of and not a great deal of pasture either. Cornflakes are "hard to come by and cost a fortune"...    Even now it can take up to 2 weeks to get there from the nearest mainland - it has no airstrip as such. Getting fresh food there 200 years ago couldn't have taken much less.

LTS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 07:08 PM

"Even now it can take up to 2 weeks to get there from the nearest mainland"

Which was the whole point of putting him there - after the fiasco of his first 'exile'...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 08:02 PM

Napoleon was on St Helena for the last 6 years of his life as a prisoner. It's likely that he didn't get the 'first pickings' of the fresh food available, which would have been the case on campaign.

St Helena is a pretty bare place when all is said and done. Less than a third of it is farmable, the majority of its produce is exported and the population is less than 6,000 over a little more than 45 square miles. For 500 years it seems to have been little more than a convenient place to get fresh water crossing the south Atlantic.

LTS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 11:09 PM

Thanks for the info on Lucrezia Borgia, Don. I always did have my doubts.

And Caligula...supposedly his MOTHER poisoned people on his behalf? Hmmm.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 04:02 AM

Checked on Google, it was definitely...
Er, check the kindergarten guide to research - just because it's on the internet, it doesn't mean it's true!
Google will throw up pages that say the Nazis did not try to wipe out Jews, that Iraq had WMD, that the moon landings never happened and that the Earth is only 4,000 years old. Google is only a search engine and indexing process.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 07:57 AM

This is not a new story, I remember reading about it some years ago. An autopsy revealed that he was NOT poisoned.
There is an interesting book titled THE LAST LOVE. It's about his last days in exile, and his friendship with the Warden's daughter.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: Grab
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 10:51 AM

Guest clearly doesn't understand the difference between a search engine which indexes previously-known information, and NEW information just arrived which hasn't made it into the various publications yet...

Graham.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: Les from Hull
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 11:11 AM

I'm just glad that he's still dead.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: MMario
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 11:18 AM

The main problem is that the corpse they *thought* was Napoleon wasn't actually him. The actual body was processed in the prototype of Dunderbeck's machine and ground to flour for making petit-fours.

This is the origin of the children's nursery rhyme "Fee Fie Foe Fum" - in the original "English man " was "Corsican"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Putting to rest a 200-year-old mystery.
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 12:30 PM

Didn't Napoleon escape from Ste Helene, his place being taken by a French sailor with a remarkable resemblance (once dressed up, washed, &c) to Le Petit Caporal, and once arrived in Paris he was sheltered by the family of a former colonel who by then was running a fruit and vegetable shop? He ended up marrying one of the family, having discovered the charms of a simple, retired existence.

More certainly, his sojourn on Elba was not an "exile"; he had abdicated, and chose Elba as his place of retreat - together with a thousand men of La Garde Imperiale - during the proceedings of the Congress of Vienna. For real conspiracy theorists, there's the idea that the some among the Coalition actually wished him to escape....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate


 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 5 April 3:48 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.