Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions

Subject: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 12:11 PM

It has long puzzled me why so many callers give instructions on numbering or identifying particular couples/genders with

"the ones with their backs to.......... Band/Bar/Windows/on my left (Huh?)/the wall without windows"

when "the ones facing " is not only shorter but the brains they want to be listening and noticing could see what it is they are "related to".

Or am I just too practical? AND before anyone points-out how hard it is to give instructions, think what comes next AND watch-out for all the non-listeners getting confused - I have tried it and that is one reason I don't call. The other is I would rather be dancing.

I am sure there other bette noirs........... discuss

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Rasener
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 12:14 PM

What I like is when you have a couple of youngsters who form an arch about three feet high and the adulst have to go under it - suppose that was pinched from Limbo dancing :-)

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Scrump
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 12:15 PM

I guess it depends on the orientation of the room. If the band is at the end of the room (as is usual in a typical village hall), it's easy to say "those at the band end" or similar. But we've done some gigs in rooms oriented the other way ('landscape' as opposed to 'portrait'). That makes it more difficult, perhaps? Never really thought about it, I just leave it to the caller.

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Rasener
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 12:17 PM

Those on the left of the Landscape need to form a Portrait line.

Sounds alright to me.

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Bernard
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 12:32 PM

Having tried both, I can confirm that people seem more able to understand the concept of a square, for example, if you refer to what is behind them rather than what they can see in front of them.

My pet gripe is the tendency these days for callers to allow the dance to 'go across' the music. Okay, people can be slow to react the first time through, but a good caller can bring the dancers back in line with the music.

Years ago when I played in a ceilidh band we used to play once through a tune for the first time through the figure, and a second tune for the second time through. We'd then go back to the first tune and alternate.

The modern trend seems to be 'play a tune until you're fed up, then switch to another', which I don't think helps the dancers much. It irritates the hell out of me when I'm dancing...!!

;o)

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Mo the caller
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 01:42 PM

I usually wave my arms around. "Men on THIS side. Ladies on That side."
It annoys me when callers say "take inside hands with your partner and face up". Its only the inside hand AFter you've faced up.
And "Ones are improper" (no, they're not, should they be?).
And anything thats said to everyone when it only refers to the men.

It is amazing how dancers can find another meaning for anything the caller says,when I thought I was being perfectly clear. (Well I knew what I meant!).
And trying to remove one ambiguity can introduce another. It annoys me when callers say "lines facing up and down" (well, should my line face up or down?). But "lines facing away from each other" produced lines on the side.

Then again, if you try to spell out every detail people stop listening cos theres too many words.

We can only do our best, admit to our mistakes (if the dancers go wrong it's always the caller's fault for not being clear), and try to keep it fun.

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Bernard
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 02:27 PM

If all else fails, go down and bash a few heads...!!

;o)

The callers who really irritate me are those who walk you through, but seem incapable of calling the phrases correctly once the dance has started... surely that's the whole point - unless you're calling for a room full of experienced dancers... in which case you should be finding dances a little out of the ordinary...!!

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: BB
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 05:33 PM

Mo, you're lucky if each of your couples consist of a man and a woman - I thought that these days non-sexist calling was the thing to do.

Barbara

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: terrier
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 06:35 PM

If you have a few dancers continualy making a mistake, get all the other dancers to make the same mistake, then incorporate it into the dance.

My pet callerism hate is "listen to the music, it will tell you what to do"....... it never has yet.

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Bert
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 01:25 AM

Y'all need to learn American Square Dancing and have done with it.

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: sapper82
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 03:46 AM

Bert, you're lucky you didn't recommend that abortion called "American" Line Dancing!!

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Scrump
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 04:06 AM

The modern trend seems to be 'play a tune until you're fed up, then switch to another', which I don't think helps the dancers much.

We always agree in advance with the caller how many bars we need for the dance (48, etc.) and how many times through, then choose appropriate tunes (typically three, depending on the planned length of the dance) to make the length right (in terms of number of bars). Playing 3 tunes is certainly more interesting for us in the band, and I find the dancers seem to prefer it. I've not noticed any dancers seem confused just because we've changed to a different tune, but maybe they do?

In spite of that, we do sometimes have to make decisions on the fly, and usually play a few extra bars or whatever is necessary. Our callers (we use more than one, not at the same time though!) seem good at communicating what's needed and we follow him or her.

Regarding organising the dancers, a couple of the callers we've played with use a wireless mic headset, and that seems a good idea - they can get amongst the dancers on the dance floor and physically sort 'em out if need be!

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Splott Man
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 04:06 AM

Taking the original point. The caller is usually picking on the most obvious feature of the room, then finding where the dancers fit in with that.


Or is it just me.

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: treewind
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 05:31 AM

My favourite gripe: abuse of radio mics, especially headsets.
It's useful to be able to get down on the floor and sort things out when a set's really in trouble. But too often the caller stays there,
and can't see what's going on except on the set in front of them. During walk though they can't see if another set isn't getting it, and during the dance they can get dragged behind the music focusing on a slow set and fail to give timely clues to the rest of the room.

From the band's point of view, you can't communicate with the caller when they're down there either.

I used to get really angry with one who used to join in with half the dances!

Anahata

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 06:25 AM

as a member of a ceilidh band it's hilarious from our angle watching people get themselves in a tangle. Adds to the fun!

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Scrump
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 06:30 AM

The longer it takes the caller to sort out the dancers before the dance starts, the more time I have to get a beer, go to the bog, etc.

:-)

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: GUEST,ex-caller
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 08:05 AM

The insistence at some venues for non-sexist calling is the reason I retired. Bullshit as far as I'm concerned. (I hope Barbara's comment was tongue in cheek.)

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Grab
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 08:15 AM

A gripe from some friends' ceilidh band who we danced to a little while ago. The calling was OK, but the band made what to me was a huge mistake - they started playing at bar 1 and assumed all the dancers knew they were starting then. Not being mind-readers, most of the dancers predictably didn't react until halfway through the first bar. Somewhat-experienced dancers can cope with that by realising that the first measure they dance is going to be slightly short and compensating - inexperienced dancers will be doing it by the numbers though, so if they start two beats late, they're going to be two beats late for the rest of the dance, and things are going to go badly pear-shaped.

So please, ceilidh bands, play a few bars of the tune as an introduction. Then we know how fast it is, and more importantly we're all ready to start on beat 1 of bar 1. I have to say though, this does seem to be specific to that band - I've not heard other ceilidh bands do this. Everyone else I've danced to has given us a couple of bars of intro to prepare us. Still, if your band plays like this, consider not doing it. (Pretty please - your dancers will appreciate it. :-)

Graham.

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Scrump
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 09:46 AM

We often (at the caller's request) run through the tune beforehand, while the dancers try the steps. Then when we do it 'for real' we always play an intro (typically 4 bars).

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Scoville
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 10:35 AM

What forms do ceilidhs use? (lines? squares? something else?)

Here it's always been that the "head" of the contra line or couple #1 in a square is nearest the band, regardless of where is the front of the room. "Active" couples in contra lines are the ones facing down the set (backs to the band, but at the "band end" of each set of two couples). Couples 2, 3, and 4 are numbered from the right of couple 1 around the square. Genders are just "men" and "women" even if the individuals aren't. Occasionally they're "designated" men and women if a lot of them aren't, otherwise you're just expected to remember that you've had a temporary sex change. We sometimes pass out spare neckties if there are way too many women dancing as men--it just makes things easier when you're trying to find your new "male" partner at a high rate of speed.

If we had a lot of inexperienced dancers, we'd often insist that people change partners with a more experienced couple, at least for a dance or two, so they would have someone to haul them along a the right clip until they had a better feel for it.

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Splott Man
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 11:39 AM

The man's line is WHERE you, not WHO you are.

In Cylch Y Cymru (a "change partners" circle dance) I find that people change sex on a regular basis.

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Scrump
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 11:48 AM

In Cylch Y Cymru (a "change partners" circle dance) I find that people change sex on a regular basis.

I'm sayin' nowt, me :-)

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Mo the caller
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 11:59 AM

Ah, non-sexist calling.
If I'm calling at a gig with a lot of children, I try to do dances where gender is irrelevant. And I might suggest in e.g. a 4 couple longways dance, that the small people have big people alongside as well as opposite (though any child old enough to know R from L may well be a better dancer than many adults).
If I'm with occasional dancers they often expect men to dance with women, so I'd build on that but make sure they know they needn't.
For beginner I'd say "a line of men,or ladies dancing as men, with their partners in another line facing them". And I'd tell them whether it mattered which side they were on (in many easy dances it doesn't).
Scoville - ceilidhs use a variety a forms, squares, longways for 3/4/5/6/8 couples, contras (for experienced dancers or ambitious callers), single/double or triple circles, and more.

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Bernard
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 12:00 PM

Apparently 'line dancing' was invented to give Morris dancers something to laugh at!

;o)

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Mo the caller
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 12:04 PM

Yesterday I wrote that I was annoyed by "anything thats said to everyone when it only refers to the men."
Then at club last night I was reminded that it's equally annoying to be told "men look on the R diagonal" when actually the women do the same.
Those are examples of sexist calling in my view.

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Scrump
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 12:11 PM

LOL Bernard :-)

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Scoville
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 12:17 PM

Should have clarified--over here, the "woman is always right". Meaning, of course, that she is always on the right-hand side of the couple, unless a dance is "improper", in which case half the couple change places (and change back when their active/inactive status changes at the end of the line). So, assuming you're proper, if you're on the left, you're a man, even if you aren't.

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Scoville
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 12:19 PM

. . . and unless it's Beckett formation, in which case active and inactive couples face each other across the set.

Okay, so even if you don't use gender-neutral terminology, it's confusing.

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Mo the caller
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 12:34 PM

And if you're "improper" and you face your 2nd couple the you find yourself "proper" after all.
But you are talking about club nights not One Night Stands.

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: LesB
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 12:39 PM

Over here "woman is always right". But that's nowt to do with the dancing more to do with survival.
My pet gripe is callers who start off explaining a dance and when the dance gets going stop calling! Not everybody gets it first time & not everybody can hear or see what is being explained & we don't all have perfect memories & need a reminder now & again.
One or two very well know callers are guilty of this, especially at festivals where they assume that everybody there is an expert.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Scrump
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 12:50 PM

Improper? ... Active couples?...

Blimey, we don't get that at the dances we play for, thank goodness, or we would probably end up making a right mess of the tunes :-)

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Callers intructions? Confusions
From: Rowan
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 05:16 PM

In my experience the best callers have done a lot of dancing, understand how tunes are constructed as well as how musicians treat tunes, have some experience at learning new things (so they understand how easy it can be to make mistakes and misunderstand) and can simplify complexities and give clear, unambiguous instructions with enough time for dancers to comprehend and act in time with the music. Good voice projection is essential. Lots of those can be difficult just by themselves. let alone in combination. And a good dance band understands that the dancers have priority; many good concert bands find it difficult to keep their collective (and necessary) egos in check

I find the different traditions of naming interesting. Most dances of Australia's colonial era came from Britain (however defined) but many came from other parts of Europe as well as from America as a result of the gold rushes. Because many dances were done where there were no women available there was a tradition of "buck sets", where those men taking the women's parts would slip a scarf or large hanky through their belt at the hip. Several have argued that their wearing of heavy boots hindered the ability to do much of the more intricate stepping such that the footwork slowed down, requiring the music to speed up a bit to keep the 'up tempo' character of the dances 'up tempo'.

Long sets here usually have 'gent' on the caller's right and 'ladies' on the caller's left although, when I was doing such dances with lots of kids who seem to believe that they can pick up gender germs, I'd ask for 'kangaroos' on my right and 'wallabies' on my left; it worked well. When the Galopede was collected from Nariel the long sets went the full length of the hall and might have 20 or more couples and the Nariel band only ever played the one tune for the whole dance. When the folk revival brought its traditions to Nariel festivals the notion of changing tunes took on, although not with the same interest in regularity.

Quadrille sets here have couples numbered "1" or named "Top" (backs to the band), "2" or "bottom" (facing the band) and "sides", with "3" on the caller's right and "4" on the caller's left. Some older callers will call "from the floor" while dancing but most call from the stage. Formations with couples facing couples (eg Soldiers' Joy" are, here, termed "Sicilian Progressive" with multiples used colloquially such that "The Dashing White Sergeant" (a line of three facing a line of three) may be termed a "one and a half Sicilian progressive" and a "Siege of Ennis" (a line of two couples facing a similar line) may be termed a "double Sicilian progressive". These can be done in lines of sets down the hall but will require some dancers to stand and wait a turn when they reach the ends. To avoid this, all except the last are usually formed up as circles around the floor so that progression is around the hall, leading to a great shout as the original members of the sets meet up. The band then knows it can finish on that tune it regards as the best high note of the bracket.

In my experience "The Waves of Tory" is most easily learned when the set has an odd number of couples and seven couples doing the waves fits the original tune well. The usual tune (32 bars played twice through) usually leads to bands playing brackets of three tunes (the original plus two others) twice through and fininshing with the original tune. Dancers seem to like this 'reassurance in repetition' and it allows bands with limited repertoires or scratch bands with few tunes in common to get a good dance going.

A caller who is familiar with such trivia can be most helpful.

Cheers, Rowan