Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals

Subject: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 06:22 PM

The purpose of this thread is to provide a place to post lyrics, and video links to specific African American and/or Afro-Caribbean spirituals for which there are no previous Mudcat threads. Discussion about these songs and posting variant forms of these examples are also welcome in this thread.

In addition, this thread may include examples of selected African American spirituals that might already have a dedicated thread. However, variants of that spiritual may be posted here because that previous thread may have gone off topic or become too contentious.

All lyrics posted to this thread will also be posted to the African American Spiritual Permathread

I will start off this thread with a number of songs that I found in
Ashley Bryant "I'm Going To Sing-Black American Spirituals Volume II." {New York, Atheneum, 1982}

Prior to starting this thread, I reviewed the list of songs posted in the African American Spirituals Permathread to see if these songs were already posted to threads. In addition, to the best of my ability, I used the Mudcat search engine to look for threads about these songs. That process resulted in me finding some threads about several songs that are included in the "I'm Going To Sing" book. I have already posted variant forms of some of those spirituals to their respective Mudcat threads.

It may be a matter of interest that Ashley Brown, the editor & [wood cut drawings]illustrator of this book indicates that he grew up in the Bronx {New York City} and that his father "came to New York from Antigua in the West Indies soon after World War I." I'm not sure if that information is relevant to Brown's choice of spirituals,and the versions of spirituals that he included in his book.

Thanks in advance for your participation in this thread.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Got A Right
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 06:27 PM

YOU GOT A RIGHT

You got a right
I got a right
We all got a right to the tree of life
Yes, tree of life.

The very time I thought I was lost
The dungeon shook
and the chain fell off.
O bretheren

You may hinder me here
But you can not there
'Cause God in heaven
going to answer prayer

Ashley Bryant "I'm Going To Sing-Black American Spirituals Volume II." {New York, Atheneum, 1982; p. 47

-snip-

See what might be a related song:
"Aint You Got A Right"
Digitrad
@displaysong.cfm?SongID=165

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Weary Traveler
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 06:29 PM

WEARY TRAVELER

Let us cheer the weary traveler
Cheer the weary traveler.
Let us cheer the weary traveler
Along the heav-en-ly way.

Verse 1
I'll take my gospel trum-pet,
And I'll be-gin to blow,
And if my Sav-ior helps me,
I'll blow whe-ev er I go.

Verse 2
And if you meet with cross-es,
And tri-als along the way,
Just keep your trust in Je-sus
And don't for-get to pray.

Verse 3.
If you can-not sing like Angels,
If you can-not pray like Paul,
You can tell the love of Je-sus
And say He died for all.
Pg. 17

HAIL! HAIL! HAIL!
Children hail! hail! hail!
I'm go-ing to join the saints a-bove,
Hail! hail! hail!
I'm on my jour-ney home

Verse 1
O, look up yonder what I see
I'm on my jour-ney home,
Bright an-gels com-ing af-ter me,
I'm on my jour-ney home.

Verse 2
If you get there be-fore I do
Look after me I'm coming too,

Verse 3
O hal-le-lu-jah to the Lamb!
King Je-sus died for ev-ery man,

-snip-

Source: Ashley Bryant "I'm Going To Sing-Black American Spirituals Volume II." {New York, Atheneum, 1982; p.23}

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 06:32 PM

Correction- "The Weary Traveler" is on page 17 of Ashley Brown's book.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Hail! Hail! Hail!
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 06:37 PM

HAIL! HAIL! HAIL!

Children hail! hail! hail!
I'm go-ing to join the saints a-bove,
Hail! hail! hail!
I'm on my jour-ney home

Verse 1
O, look up yonder what I see
I'm on my jour-ney home,
Bright an-gels com-ing af-ter me,
I'm on my jour-ney home.

Verse 2
If you get there be-fore I do
Look after me I'm coming too,

Verse 3
O hal-le-lu-jah to the Lamb!
King Je-sus died for ev-ery man,

Source: Ashley Bryant "I'm Going To Sing-Black American Spirituals Volume II." {New York, Atheneum, 1982; p. 23}

-snip-

Also see the spiritual "Hail! Hail!" which was posted by Dicho
{09 Feb 02 - 08:16 PM}thread.cfm?threadid=44051#646259
'Tell The News Spirituals' thread

These songs may be related though their lyrics are quite different.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: O Mary Don't You Weep
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 06:46 PM

OH MARY DON'T YOU WEEP
O Mary don't you weep, don't you mourn
O Mary don't you weep don't you mourn;
Pharoah's army got drown-ded
O Mary, don't you weep.

Verse 1
Ain't been to heaven but I've been told:
Streets is pearl and the houses is gold,
Pharoah's army got drown-ded,
O Mary, don't you weep.

Verse 2
Jesus done just as He said
He healed the sick and He raise the dead
Pharoah's army got drown-ded,
O Mary, don't you weep.

Verse 3
When I get to Heaven going to sing and shout.
Nobody there for to turn me out
Pharoah's army got drown-ded,
O Mary, don't you weep.

Verse 4
When I get to Heaven going to put on my shoes.
Run about glory and tell all the news
Pharoah's army got drown-ded,
O Mary, don't you weep.

-snip-
Source: Ashley Bryant "I'm Going To Sing-Black American Spirituals Volume II." {New York, Atheneum, 1982; p. 51}

**

My experience with this song is that the line "Oh Mary, don't you weep" is sung after the first line of the verses given above {and the first line of other floating verses that fit this pattern}.

**
Btw, this is a variant form of a spiritual that is already in the African American Spirituals Permathread. In addition, this spiritual has a previous thread thread.cfm?threadid=7873 'Mary don't you weep—meaning'.

There are other lyrics to this song posted on that thread.

However,in my opinion, that thread became quite contentious. For that reason, rather than post to that thread, I decided to put this version of that song here, and link to the previous thread.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 06:56 PM

Azizi, this is wonderful. Well-organized, and good judgment IMO on letting the older threads go when they're ugly. And your adjusted subject lines mean that not only will these show on a simple search, "Add" is also a word used by Digital Tradition song-harvestors to review what's been added for possible inclusion in the DT.

Thanks, so much!

~Susan

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 07:51 PM

What I wrote:

"My experience with this song is that the line "Oh Mary, don't you weep" is sung after the first line of the verses given above {and the first line of other floating verses that fit this pattern}"
-snip-

The more I think about this, I think I'm thinking about another song. The verse is sung and then the chorus {refrain} is sung "Pharoah's army got drown-ded". Oh, Mary don't you weep".

**

Here's another verse to "Oh Mary Don't You Weep" -I'm sure about this..really and truly:

One of these days 'bout 12 o'clock
This old world's gonna reel and rock.
Pharoah's army got drown-ded.
Oh Mary, don't you weep.

Subject: RE: Lyr : Add: Run While The Sun Is Shining ??
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 08:14 PM

Sometimes when I read words to spirituals I start singing the songs in my head, putting tunes to them that seem to fit, even though I've never heard the song before.

That's what happened when I read a number of the songs in Ashley Brown's book.

Another thing that happens is that one song makes you think of another one.

For some reason, when I was typing that verse I remembered singing to "Oh Mary don't you weep, the song "Run While The Sun Is Shining" came into my head.

I'm not sure if "Run While The Sun Is Shining" is a spiritual or a gospel song. And I can't remember all of it. That song doesn't appear to be in the African American Spiritual Permathread, and I've had no success finding it online...but it's a real song that I definitely really and truly remember my church singing around about the early 1960s if not earlier.

Because I only remember part of the song, I'm titling this post
"Lyr: Add. _____ ???"

It's more a case of seeking the lyrics than adding the lyrics. Therefore, I'm not posting them to the African American Spirituals Permathread.

Here's what I remember:

[You better]*

Chorus:
Run while the sun is shining
Run on in His name.
[You better]* run while the sun is shining
Run on in His name.
You know when the rain falls
You can't run-un.
When night comes [???]
You can't run-un.
You betta run on
While it's runnin time.

Verse:
Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John
All of the prophets that are dead and gone.
Back in the days of Bible {times ??}
God said it wouldn't be water
But fire next time.
You betta run on
While it's running time

Chorus

[and more verses, though I can't remember them}.

* words are optional
At least I think they are; really and truly I do think :]

Does anyone know this song?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 08:21 PM

I don't, but it's fine to index even a fragment. I'd take the first line as a title.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 08:24 PM

A google search comes up with several artists singing it: Bessie Griffin

Herman Stevens Singer

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 09:12 PM

Thank you, ladies.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 09:59 PM

The Bessie Griffin clip is about as Azizi's fragment. The other clip has to be paid for, which I can't.

Azizi, does the Griffin version jog your memory on more text?

And I'll add it to the index-- Bessie Griffin's title is the same as yours.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 10:04 PM

'More Af-Am American Spirituals' seems to me a bad heading, since there are hundreds not posted, and the thread could go on forever, without organization.
I think a better title would be- Spirituals from 'Ashley Bryant, I'm going to sing ......' That would identify a source and put a limit on the thread.
Or- Spirituals sung by Ashley Bryant and their variations... ??-
I don't know, but some limitation would help.

I have a number that could be posted, probably by subject using the old threads if pertinent (Some cluster by region because of form or dialect (collections by the amazing Mrs. Backus, e. g.).

I find thread 7873, Mary don't..., fascinating. It is one of the few where meaning is argued. The contention may be a little wearing, but it made me smile. (Perhaps because I remember my gramma once took me along on a visit to two old maids she knew (no sitter available?). The two biddies got so het up in an argument
that they were weeping and shouting. No one saw how many cookies I stuffed into my clothes. Gram got me out of there, so I missed the finish, but I remember passing their garden some days later, and they seemed to be getting along again (Back about 1930 but I remember it vividly).

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 10:10 PM

I think the heading is OK, at least for a limited number of songs. Azizi, you will find that when there are too many songs in any one thread, it can get confusing when the 32nd post is commentary on the second song posted, then the 33rd post is a new verse for the 1st dsong posted, etc. But as I indicated when you PMed me about this recently, it's always a judgment call, and the main thing is to help make them findable by doing what you've done in this thread.

There's another thread where miscellaneous spirituals got posted; that's unfulfilled lyric requests in:

MISSING SPIRITUALS

If any of those ring a bell, and you have lyrics, it would be great to beef that one up, too. It may be out of date-- it may have requests for things that we do actually have now, I'm not sure.

~Susan

Subject: Video: Add: Guide My Feet
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 10:14 PM

GUIDE MY FEET
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFEtWICyW1w

Harvard's Kuumba Singers, Black Alumni Weekend, 10/1/06
"Added October 15, 2006 ;From 6253gvc

The spiritual,"Guide My Feet, While I Run This Race," was part of a breakfast concert for Harvard's black alumni assembled at Annenberg Hall on Sunday morning, October 1, 2006"

-snip-

My comments re this video:
This tune is slightly different than I remember singing it in Atlantic City, New Jersey, And it's faster...but nice.

The audio is much better than the video.Unfortunately, the taping ends before the song ends. But then again, the video is free and the choir is really workin it.

{"workin it=gets down=is hot=does a very good job}

**

WYSIWYG posted the lyrics to this song Here

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 10:18 PM

Yeah, that one might have gone better in the pre-existing thread, Azizi. Now I have to index it twice-- unless you are going to post a note in the earlier thread that there is a video for it in THIS thread? I ask, because that issue will come up often. How are we going to handle it?

~S~

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 09:25 AM

I like how you cross-referenced that one, Azizi!

~Susan

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: I'm A Rolling
From: Azizi
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 01:20 AM

I'M A ROLLING

I'm a-roll-ing.
I'm a roll-ing.
I'm a roll-ing, through an unfriendly world.
I'm a-roll-ing.
I'm a roll-ing,
through an un--friend-ly world.

1.
O, broth-ers, won't you help me.
O, broth-ers won't you hel me to pray?
O, broth-ers, won't you help me,
Won't you help me in the ser-vice of the Lord

I'm a-roll-ing.
I'm a roll-ing.
I'm a roll-ing, through an unfriendly world.
I'm a-roll-ing.
I'm a roll-ing,
through an un--friend-ly world.

2.
O, sis-ters etc

Source: Ashley Bryant "I'm Going To Sing-Black American Spirituals Volume II." {New York, Atheneum, 1982; p. 38-39}

-snip-

I remember 'learning' this song in my childhood. As is the case with most African American songs & rhymes, the "a" in "I'm a-rolling" is pronounced like "ah".

Btw, this song and most of the spirituals that I remember weren't sung in the call & response pattern. Either the whole song was sung in unison, or the choir sang the chorus and a soloist sung the verses. This performance style seems to me to more like the European style of choir/soloist than the traditional African call & response pattern.

It's certainly possible that this song and other spirituals were originally sung in a call & response pattern, but I don't recall that as being the case when I was growing up.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: Azizi
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 01:57 AM

More on the call & response singing that I remember. If you can get YouTube, listen to the example of Guide My Feet whose link I provided upthread.

The choir is singing the bulk of the song while the soloist embroiders, embellishes?, plays with the words of the song? I'm not sure how to describe it, someone who has taken music classes may be able to better describe it.

It also seems to me that the soloist is doing more lining than actual call [for the choir] to respond to. With lining the soloist says [not sings] a line or phrase and the choir then takes up the burden of the song. I've read that lining was originally used because the congregation didn't know how to read {and so a person who did know how said each line to the song}. But now, it's used as an aesthetic choice of singing style and not for utilitarian purposes.

**

For an example of a different type of soloist/choir singing than the "I'm-a Rolling Song" , check out video clip of this 1960s spiritual whose video link I provided on another thread:

Pilgrim Jubilee Singers - Old Ship Of Zion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOn5n6dhnw

**

Then there is the type of call & response when the soloist sings a phrase or part of a sentence and the choir finishes the sentence. Here's an example of that style of call & response in the second song on this YouTube clip:

Ethel Davenport & The Pilgrim Jubilee Singers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMkUyNTOXO4&NR

Added October 06, 2006;From maceoaus
"Ethel Davenport and the Pilgrim Jubilee as they appeared on TV Gospel Time #47" [1960s]

Of course, this is African American gospel music and not spirituals...so that may account for the difference in the way call & response is used or not used.

I'm not sure about the titles for these songs, but given their words I'd title the first song sung alone by Ethel Davenport "Prayer Meeting" and the second song sung by the Pilgirm Jubilee Singers "Over There".

**

Also, check out the way call & response & lining are used in these contemporary gospel songs by Kirk Franklin:

Kirk Franklin -"Why We Sing"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oH-29ZRuH0&search=Kirk%20Franklin%20Gospel

Kirk Franklin- "Stomp"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noX6Aigurc0&mode=related&search=

In both of these songs, the choir sings the song while the "soloist" {caller?} either says one or two words, or interperses in a talking voice preaching while the choir continues singing; also in "Stomp", a bit of rapping is added to the mix.


**
Because these videos are gospel and not spirituals, I'm not posting them to the African American Spirituals Permathread.

Subject: Lyr: Add: How Do You Do, Everybody?
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 11:38 PM

HOW DO YOU DO, EVERYBODY?
[Greeting Shout Spiritual]

How do you do, everybody, how do you do?
How do you do, everybody, how do you do?
I don't come to worry your patience.
I just come to bring salvation.
How do you do, everybody, how do you do?

How do you do, my dear brethren, how do you do?
How do you do, my dear brethren, how do you do?
I don't come to worry your patience.
I just come to bring salvation.
How do you do, everybody, how do you do?

How do you do, my dear sistren, how do you do?
How do you do, my dear sistren, how do you do?
I don't come to worry your patience.
I just come to bring salvation.
How do you do, everybody, how do you do?

How do you do, my dear mother, how do you do?
How do you do, my dear mother, how do you do?
I don't come to worry your patience.
I just come to bring salvation.
How do you do, everybody, how do you do?

How do you do, my dear father, how do you do?
How do you do, my dear father, how do you do?
I don't come to worry your patience.
I just come to bring salvation.
How do you do, everybody, how do you do?

How do you do, my good member, how do you do?
How do you do, my good member, how do you do?
I don't come to worry your patience.
I just come to bring salvation.
How do you do, everybody, how do you do?

How do you do, everybody, how do you do?
How do you do, everybody how do you do?
I don't come to worry your patience.
I just come to bring salvation.
How do you do, everybody, how do you do?

Last chorus repeated

-snip-
Song sample: "How Do You Do, Ev'rybody?" – Greeting shout, from "The Long Road to Freedom: An Anthology of Black Music," Harry Belafonte, compiler, Buddha Records (BMG Distribution), 2001 (www.BuddhaRecords.com)

http://ctl.du.edu/spirituals/Freedom/values.cfm
"Sweet Chariot- The Story of the Spirituals"

A sound clip is included.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 11:48 PM

Btw, the Howdy Doody show and its main character, Howdy Doody was based on the vernacular American greeting "Howdy do?" {How do you do?"}

I read [somewhere?] that some Black people during slavery and some times afterwards pronounced the word "Howdy" as "Huddy". This brings to mind Huddie Ledbetter's {Leadbelly} name, but I don't think his first name has the same source as the greeting word Huddy.

Subject: Add:: Lyr: Run Mary Run {You Got A Righ}
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 11:54 PM

Run, Mary, Run

Run, Mary, run,
Run, Martha, run,
Tell, Mary, run, I say,
You got a right to the tree of life.

Run, Mary, run,
Run, Martha, run,
Tell, Mary, run, I say,
You got a right to the tree of life.

Little Mary you got a right,
You got a right to the tree of life.
You got a right, you got a right,
You got a right to the tree of life.

The Hebrew Children got a right,
You got a right to the tree of life.
Paul and Silas you got a right,
You got a right to the tree of life.

Got a right, you got a right,
You got a right to the tree of life.
I come to tell you, you got a right
You got a right to the tree of life.
I come to tell you, you got a right,
You got a right to the tree of life.

The voice is heavy but you got a right,
You got a right to the tree of life.
Ups and down but you got a right,
You got a right to the tree of life.
True hard born, but you got a right,
You got a right to the tree of life.

You got a right, you got a right,
You got a right to the tree of life.
You got a right, you got a right,
You got a right to the tree of life.
You got a right, you got a right,
You got a right to the tree of life.

Oh Weepin' Mary,
You got a right to the tree of life.
Oh Weepin' Mary,
You got a right to the tree of life.

I come to tell you, you got a right,
You got a right to the tree of life.
I come to tell you, you got a right,
You got a right to the tree of life.

You got a right, you got a right,
You got a right to the tree of life.
Ups and down, but you got a right,
You got a right to the tree of life.
Ups and down, but you got a right,
You got a right to the tree of life.

Run, Mary, run,
Run, Martha, run,
Tell, Mary, run, I say,
You got a right to the tree of life.

Run, Mary, run, I say,
You got a right to the tree of life.
Run, Mary, run, I say,
You got a right to the tree of life.

You got a right, you got a right,
You got a right to the tree of life.
You got a right, you got a right,
You got a right to the tree of life.
You got a right, you got a right,
You got a right to the tree of life.

Mary and Martha got a right,
You got a right to the tree of life.
Mary and Martha, you got a right,
You got a right to the tree of life.

Life!

-snip-

Song sample: "Run, Mary, Run, You Got a Right to the Tree of Life," recorded by The Seniorlites and included in Wade in the Water, Volume II: African American Congregational Singing, Bernice Johnson Reagon, compiler, Smithsonian/Folkways Recordings & National Public Radio, 1994.


http://ctl.du.edu/spirituals/Freedom/values.cfm
"Sweet Chariot- The Story of the Spirituals"

A sound clip is included.

-snip-

See another version of "You got a right" in my 22 Jan 07 - 06:27 PM post on this thread.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 12:16 PM

The Common English 'How Do You Do' (16th c. or earlier) appeared in print as 'howdy' in England in the 19th c. (origin much earlier?), but as noted by Azizi, it was and is common vernacular in the U. S. South and West.

The greeting shout "How Do You Do, Everybody, How Do You Do," posted by Azizi, had its origin in the 1920s as the theme song of Billy Jones and Ernie Hare, "The Happiness Boys", very popular on early radio, 1929-1939.

It is possible, however, that the melody goes back to some of the 19th c. Billy Barlow routines.

Subject: Add: Lyr: Huddy Oh {in de mornin when I rise}?
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 11:16 AM

In my 01 Feb 07 - 11:48 PM post I mentioned that I had read that African Americans said Huddy instead of Howdie.

I found the passage that I was referring to in Maud Cuney-Hare's 1936 book "Negro Musicians & Their Music" {Washington D.C., The Associated Publisher's Inc;, p 54}

"The children also sang their own song such as

'In de mornin', when I rise {twice}
Tell my Jesus, Huddy Oh?
I wash my hands in de mornin' glory {twice}
Tell my Jesus, Huddy Oh?
Tell my Jesus, Huddy Oh?
Pray, Tony, pray boy, you got de order {twice}
Tell my Jesus, Huddy Oh?

{Huddy Oh was a contraction for 'Howdy Do'}."

Subject: Add: Video : Didn't My Lord Deliver Daniel
From: Azizi
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 11:09 AM

The video is not high quality, but the sound is much better.

This is an interesting arrangement of the spiritual "Didn't My Lord Deliver Daniel" sung by the Howard University choir.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb5pZEw4Y_E&mode=related&search=

Subject: Add: Video: Soon And Vey Soon
From: Azizi
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:49 PM

Youtube Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GODU2t0XZ6Y

Added January 22, 2007;From acapellajohn
"White guy sings gospel song. It's Gospel White guy sings gospel song. It's Gospel Monday, guys"

Subject: Add: Lyrics: Soon And Vey Soon 2
From: Azizi
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:54 PM

SOON AND VERY SOON
(text and music by Andrae Crouch}

1. Soon and very soon, we are going to see the King (3 times)
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! We're going to see the King.

2. No more crying there, we are going to see the King (3 times)
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! We're going to see the King.

3. No more dying there, we are going to see the King (3 times)
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! We're going to see the King.

Should there be any rivers we must cross
Should there be any mountains we must climb
God will supply all the grace that we need
Give us strengtht till we reach the other side

Soon and very soon we are going to see the King
Hallelujah Hallelujah
We're going to see the King
Hallelujah Hallelujah
We're going to see the King.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: Azizi
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 03:05 PM

'Note' that there are additional words to "Soon And Very Soon" #2 than the lyrics to the song on the DT.
The DT version is found at @displaysong.cfm?SongID=8367

Joe Offer's post on 16 Oct 99 - 09:51 PM in thread.cfm?threadid=14391#148278 contains the same version of "Soon And Very Soon" as the one in the DigitalTradition, meaning that it's minus that "Should there be..." verse.

I've checked online and most sites do not have this added "should there be" verse. But, that's the way I've always heard "Soon And Very Soon" sung ; that's the way I've sung it, and these are the same words the man in the YouTube video sang.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 05:50 PM

Lyr. Add: SOON AND VERY SOON
Andraé Crouch

1.
Soon and very soon we are goin' to see the King (3x)
Hallelujah, hallelujah, we're goin' to see the King!
2.
No more cryin' there we are goin' to see the King (3x)
Hallelujah, hallelujah, we're goin' to see the King!
3.
No more dyin' there we are goin' to see the King.
Hallelujah, hallelujah, we're goin' to see the King!
4.
Soon and very soon we are goin' to see the King. (3x)
Hallelujah,
Hallelujah,
Hallelujah,
Hallelujah.

Copyright 1976, Bud John Songs, Inc./Crouch Music (ASCAP)
No. 193, in Carpenter, Delores, General Editor, 2001, African American Heritage Hymnal, GIA Publications, Inc. Chicago.

The version in the DT lacks verse 4 of the copyright version.
The 'Should there be' verse is not in the copyright version. Added by??

There are other spirituals with the 'no more cryin', no more dyin' theme, as Kaleea noted some time back, but my brain is inactive at the moment.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: Azizi
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 07:11 PM

It occurs to me that "Soon And Very Soon" is a gospel song and not a spiritual.

Or maybe it's a contemporary gospel/spiritual. Is this a demarcation line for the end of spirituals and the beginning of gospels? I've read that the first AA gospel music was recorded in 1920, so maybe that's the demarcation line. Or maybe it's after the Civil War and the end of slavery as it had been legalized in the American South.

If "Soon And Very Soon" is a gospel song, then am I to understand that it shouldn't be in the African American Spirituals Permathread?

Susan & Q, and others, I'm interested in knowing what your opinions are about this.

**

With regard to the words to this song, I don't know whether or not the copyrighted version that you posted and I've seen elsewhere written that way is correct or in-correct.

I've also seen that 4th verse, which was called a 'bridge' on a number of websites that have the lyrics to "Soon And Very Soon". And,as I mentioned, this is the way I've heard it sung, and this is the way that man on the YouTube video sung it. I doubt that it's a coincidence that I would sing the exact same lines as that White singer on YouTube did unless we both had heard a recording of that song. Though I don't have the energy to look through my old tapes-I strongly believe that this it the way that Andre Crouch sings it on a recording.

Maybe he added to the song after his first copyright. I don't know.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: Azizi
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 07:13 PM

Correction:

I meant to write "Is there a demarcation line for the end of spirituals and the beginning of gospels?"

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 08:29 PM

'demarcation line' tough question.
1. We have the spirituals collected or known in the 1860-1900 period. Nearly everyone accepts them as spirituals. Others collected 1900-1930 that on good evidence belong in the spiritual tradition.

Demarcation hazy because good ideas and lines from the old material is reworked into the new.

2. New devotional songs. New compositions being used in 'modernized' services. Rise of gospel singing, both white and black. New religious songs, known composers and/or copyright, post-Depression. Soft rock (Crouch) and all that.

I regard only group 1. as spirituals.

Isn't Andree Crouch soft rock, as

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: Azizi
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 09:25 PM

"Isn't Andrae Crouch soft rock, as" ???

I've NEVER heard any gospel singer/composer referred to as "soft rock". That's definitely a secular term that is never used as a descriptor for religious music.

The most often used referent for Crouch's type of music is "contemporary gospel". Nowadays, African American and other people might say {informanlly, but I believe correctly} "old school" contemporary gospel.

See this bio of Andrae Crouch from http://www.vh1.com/artists/az/crouch_andrae/bio.jhtml

"One of the most renowned and widely respected pioneers of contemporary gospel music remains Andrae Crouch. By combining such classic gospel music elements as call-and-response and choir, along with pop songwriting techniques and production, Crouch's style has influenced countless other artists. Born July 1, 1942, in Pacoima, CA, Crouch got his musical start at his father's church, singing, playing piano, and before ten years of age, writing his own songs (despite being entirely self-taught). Crouch formed his first serious gospel group during the early '60s, Andrae Crouch & the Disciples, although it wouldn't be until 1977 that the group issued their first release, This Is Another Day (eventually, the "Disciples" name would be dropped, as the albums were credited solely to Crouch). ..

...{Chrouch] received a total of nine Grammy Awards and an Academy Award nomination; and provided film scores to such movies as The Lion King and Free Willy....

Crouch was inducted into the Gospel Hall of Fame in 1998..."

-snip-

Sorry, but in my opinion, if Mudcat's African American Spiritual Permathread opens the door and let's "Soon And Very Soon" on its spiritual listing, it will be hard to explain why other contemporary gospel soons aren't also welcomed on that list. I guess we gotta draw the line somewhere.

This last paragraph is only partially snark. I really do see it as problematic to include spirituals from 1900 on. Better yet, why don't we find out what was the first date of the earliest gospel recording and make the year before that the end of the spiritual period?

This is almost like saying when does R&B end and Soul music begin...It's all the same in some ways but it also is different even if it's just the sense of the times or the different styles of the same music.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: Azizi
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 09:33 PM

Oops. I re-read my last post-typos and all-and hasten to remind myself that I am not part of "we" with regard to the African American Spiritual Permathread.

So let me rephrase my last comment. My suggestion is that Susan and anyone else who is responsible for determining which songs are added to the AA Spiritual Permathread consider using the year before the first AA gospel record was published as the last date to accept AA religious songs in the spirituals category.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: Azizi
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 09:49 PM

Here's an excerpt from the website "Sweet Chariot: The Story Of The Spirituals" that addresses the differences between African American spirituals and gospel music. The content of this website was written in 2004 by Arthur C. Jones as part of a multidisciplinary online curriculum by The Spirituals Project at the University of Denver
http://ctl.du.edu/spirituals/History/

"The spirituals are the religious folk songs created and first sung by African Americans in slavery. "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot;" "Joshua Fit the Battle of Jericho;" "Sometimes I Feel Like a Motherless Child;" "Go Down, Moses;" "Steal Away to Jesus;" "Didn't My Lord Deliver Daniel?;" "Wade in the Water;" these are some of the best known survivors of the hundreds of remarkable religious folk songs that were created by enslaved African Americans. In fact, many Americans from all ethnic backgrounds can remember "growing up" with these songs, which were created by a circumscribed community of people in bondage but eventually came to be regarded as the first "signature" music of the new American nation. In time, the spirituals were offered as a gift to the whole world, exerting their cultural impact well into the beginning of the twenty-first century.

What is the Difference Between the Spirituals and Gospel Music?

Many people ask what the difference is between the spirituals and Black gospel music. Simply put, the spirituals are the Southern sacred "folk" songs created and first sung by African Americans during slavery. Their original composers are unknown, and they have assumed a position of collective ownership by the whole community. They lend themselves easily to communal singing. Many are in a call-and-response structure, with back-and-forth exchanges between the leader and the group. A formal concert tradition has evolved from the original spirituals, with solo and choral arrangements based on original slave melodies, employed for performance by amateur and professional artists. Black gospel music originated in the churches of the urban North in the 1920's, and has been the predominant music of the twentieth century Black Church. Each gospel song has an identifiable composer. Gospel fuses musical elements of both the spirituals and the blues, and incorporates extensive musical improvisation, with piano, guitar or other instrumental accompaniment. While the gospel tradition descended directly from the spirituals and the blues, the spirituals have also continued to exist as a parallel cultural force."

-anip-

Here is another excerpt comes from that same article:

"When the gospel movement that began to build in late 1920s became increasingly stronger, the singing of spirituals in Black churches began to wane. Gradually, gospel music emerged as the predominant music of the twentieth century Black church in America. However, spirituals continued to be performed in secular concert settings, especially in the continuing work of college choirs and in recitals by classically trained solo singers. The influence of the spirituals was also reflected in other areas of the performing arts, including, dance, jazz, and the blues. Those influences remain strong today".

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:01 PM

LOL-- see the post I just made about this very thing, IN the permathread.

The answer is no, nope, NO, never, no can do.

It isn't up to me. Never will be, by my choice, and can't be, because the genre will not allow it. And because it isn't a list of what definitively fitts ANY one definition of what is a spiritual, it's a list of songs people will want to study further and a way of making those songs more quickly findable in the threads. It's a collection of LINKS, not a collection of guaranteed spirituals. It's in the intro to the index!

:~)

~S~

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: Azizi
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 11:25 PM

I think it may be best to continue this discussion in the African American Spiritual Permathread.

Here's my post in response to Susan's last comment:

thread.cfm?threadid=38686&messages=86#1961911

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 12:29 AM

I certainly wouldn't want to include gospel in the Spirituals Permathread. Crouch's song is gospel (I got the 'soft rock' from a thread discussing his music; I thought it was funny, but in truth he does have that touch).

The first dated Gospel song? "Each gospel song has an identifiable composer" is massive overstatement. Gospel developed in the 19th c., white- Phillip Bliss published his "Gospel Songs" in 1874; the style was taken up by street singers and itinerant holiness and evangelist singers.

Black Gospel-
Thomas A. Dorsey is often referred to as the 'father of gospel' from his compositions in the 1930s, blending jazz, blues and rural gospel. There were earlier unknowns or little known developers of the form.
C. A. Tindley, born in 1851, had a church of 5000 members by 1910. He was composing gospel before the turn of the century, and eight of his songs appeared in "New Songs of the Gospel," 1901, by C. Austin Miles. The gospel books of Miles, published between 1900 and 1910, were so popular that copies are cheap today. Tindley's "We'll Understand It Better By and By" (1905) is a standby in the South. "I'll Overcome Some Day," of course, is the origin of "We Shall Overcome."

Both Tindley and Dorsey were backgrounded by revivalist hymns, evangelist hymns, ragtime and early blues. Rural blues is an important component of the storefront church music that developed in the cities. Mahalia Jackson sang many of her gospel songs in the old Dr. Watts singing style.

Calling Black gospel 'urban' leaves out Black Pentacostalists who travelled the country, such as Sister Caller Fancy, who belonged to the 'Sanctified' church, as well as the rural gospelers such as Blind Willie Johnson (c. 1900) who added much to the form. Dorsey was from Georgia, although he developed his style in Chicago.

Black gospel began to achieve a stable modern composed 'style' in the 1930s. Now it is a marketing term. Since gospel music is the base for most contemporary Black music- soul, rock, hip-hop, etc. boundaries on singing styles such as Crouch's are hard to define.

Gospel means different things to different Mudcatters. How about the revival songs of the post-Civil War? Sacred Harp?

And fer land's sakes, take off the urban blinkers and see gospel as the mix it is, grounded in blues, jazz and rural gospel. It is 'Country Come to Town!' after a couple of generations.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 05:11 AM

Q, I agree with your points.

Also, in case it might be miscontrued, I gather your use of the word funny in your sentence "Crouch's song is gospel (I got the 'soft rock' from a thread discussing his music; I thought it was funny, but in truth he does have that touch)." that funny means "somewhat strange".

For what it's worth, I agree with your statement that Crouch's music has a touch {actually more that a touch} of R&B. Notice I substituted "R&B" for "rock". I think that nowadays many African Americans associate the music genre "Rock" with "Punk Rock" or "Acid Rock", ot other genres of Rock and not with Rock & RoLL. On other words, in my not so humble opinion {on this matter}, most Black Americans associate the term "rock" with "White people's music" and might be dismiss any article on Andrae Crouch's music out of hand just because the author described that music as "sort of rock". My bet is that the author of that article you referred to is White.

Re your statements:

"Gospel means different things to different Mudcatters. How about the revival songs of the post-Civil War? Sacred Harp?

And fer land's sakes, take off the urban blinkers and see gospel as the mix it is, grounded in blues, jazz and rural gospel. It is 'Country Come to Town!' after a couple of generations."
-snip-

I'm not sure if you were talking only to me, but I certainly am in strong agreement with what you are saying.

As to the how bout questions, yes, how bout them.

But after all, those subjects are off-topic. This is a thread for more African American spirituals.

Occassionally, as some people ;o) tend to go off topic, there may be Black gospel songs posted to or discussed in this thread, but it would be done with the understanding that known gospel songs are not part of the AA Spirituals Permathread.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 05:24 AM

Also, here's some information about Charles Albert Tindley for those who may not know about this African American composer:

"Charles Albert Tindley is one of the earliest and most influential writers of gospel music. His two most popular songs are "I'll Overcome Someday" (which is popularly know as "We Shall Overcome", the anthem for the civil rights movement) and "Stand By Me." "Stand By Me" became a national hit when Ben E. King and the Drifters sang their version during the 1960's"

Source: Selected Biographies of many of Maryland's Distinguished African-Americans
http://library.thinkquest.org/10854/biogr.html

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 01:10 PM

Charles Austin Miles was white, but he published songs by Tindley and possibly other Af-Am composers at a time when few would.
Perhaps best known for "Dwelling in Beulah Land" (see Cyberhymnal).

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 03:54 PM

Checking availability of books with original Af-Am spirituals. Some are very scarce, and priced dearly. One which is available, after a fashion, is Logan, Wm. A., "Road to Heaven, Twenty-eight Negro Spirituals," Univ. Alabama. Reprints offered by a print-to-order service.

Another is Kennedy, R. Emmet, 1931, "More Mellows," 178 pp. of spirituals coll. in LA. Many are not available from other sources.
Three ex-library copies are offered by dealers, $75 to $175. A clean copy at a rare book dealer would cost several hundreds.
The latter example also illustrates how public libraries have discarded seldom-consulted reference material, leaving universities and a very few government-supported institutions as the sole repositories.
Space is now filled with the latest romances, sci-fi and mysteries.

Subject: info on 'I'll Go On' ?
From: diplocase
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 04:40 PM

Does anyone have info on this song, which shares some lyrics with Beulah Land but is clearly not the same song?   I'm learning it from the LP Deep River of Song in the Lomax Collection. Corrections and additions to the lyrics also very welcome.

I'LL GO ON

Children we gotta reach that land of corn and wine
        I'll go on, I'll go on
We have reached that land of corn and wine
        I'll go on

won't that be a mighty time
        I'll go on, I'll go on
be eatin up the corn and drinkin of the wine
        I'll go on

Bet you know just how I feel
       I'll go on, I'll go on
When I get in that battlefield
      I'll go on

Now we gotta reach that land of corn and wine
        I'll go on, I'll go on
childen are we gonna reach that land of corn and wine
        I'll go on

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: More African American Spirituals
From: wysiwyg
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 08:28 PM

Diplocase, what a neat song!

You'll be more likely to get replies on any specific song by posting a new thread with the song title-- and then bookmark it so you can refresh it every few days or weeks. A link (in that thread) to a sound sample will be helpful.

~Susan