Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons

Subject: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: HiHo_Silver
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 01:06 PM

I am in the process of buying a new PC and find that most of them have windows XP program although the new windows vista program is out. What are the pros. and cons. to this program? Is it worth the extra money? Is it easier to use etc.? Thanks for the comments.

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 01:14 PM

The home version of Windows Vista doesn't come out here in the U.S. until next Tuesday, January 30. I understand that the business version is out, but I haven't seen it for sale anywhere.
I have a dying CD burner and a hard drive that's full, so I'm planning to buy a new computer next week. Some people advise not to buy a new operating system during its first six months on the market, but Vista has been in Beta release for a long time.
I could buy a computer today and get a free upgrade to Vista next week, but I don't trust operating system upgrades.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: HiHo_Silver
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 01:27 PM

Thanks Joe: Usually programs come out in U. S. before Canada. Vista is being offered today at ZELLERS stores at $ 179.00 + Taxes 14% Cad. Buying new PC' makes my head spin.

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 04:51 PM

I checked some of the vendors for Vista computers, and it doesn't seem that they're selling them yet. I guess I'd better be patient and see what happens to the market. I'll bet there will be new computers coming out in the next two weeks. I'd like a HDTV tuner, but all I see at Hewlett-Packard are analog tuners.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 05:29 PM

Vista is one more step on the way to Micro$oft controling how YOU use your computer....I do not like this direction, and will resist Vista as long as possible...until I hear the stories from those I trust about how it works.
Right now there are very good deals on XP machines in advance of this release...I am looking to see if I can snag one that will tide me over a few years.

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: HiHo_Silver
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 05:36 PM

The following is a recommendation for a computer for me by a local technician who services my Pc. comments appreciated.

Computer consisting of the following:
CASE        CODEGEN M606-CA 450W 12CM/4-8P W/A-DUCT
MB        ASROCK CONROE945G-DVI S775/I/L/V
CPU        INTEL P4 541 3.20G LGA775 FSB800 1M EM64
FAN        Heat Sink & Cooling Fan
RAM        RENDITION RM12864AA667 DDR2 667 1GB
FLOPPY      PANASONIC BLACK FLOPPY DRIVE 1.44
HD        SEAGATE 160G SATA II HD W5Y
VIDEO         Onboard Geforce 6 Video up to 256MB
KB        MICROSOFT WIRELESS OPTICAL DESKTOP 2.0
MOUSE       MICROSOFT Wireless Mouse
LAN        On board 10/100/1OOOM PCI controller
SOUND       On board 7.1 CH high Definition Audio
DVDRW       LG 18X DVDRW H22N BLACK
SPEAKERS CYBER ACOUSTICS CA-2016WB BLACK 2PCS USB
OS        MICROSOFT WIN XP-HOME SP2/SP2B OEM
Assembly & 2 Year Warranty
CSA Approval
DISPLAY    LG L194WTX-BF 19" LCD BLACK

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 06:13 PM

I'd run 98SE - but then I'm awkward!

I think XP nerds prefer Pro to Home but I'm not sure why.

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: mack/misophist
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 06:29 PM

In the past it has always been a bad idea to get a MS product when it first comes out. Many will tell you to wait at least until SP1.

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 08:18 PM

I believe XP pro is easier to tweak for networking your PC than XP home (network login)

I have a download of vista waiting till I get my new PC ready.

From what I gather, to run Vista comfortably you should have an x64 dual core processor (intel or AMD)
A nice graphics card (with a fair amount of memory)
2GB of DDR RAM
A reasonable amount of Hard Drive space.
All connected to a motherboard that can shift large packets of data very quickly from one component to the other...

I'll tell you if I get it working next week!!!

Sounds like a Microsoft bloatware production yet again!!!;)

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 08:28 PM

AMD: http://microsoft.amd.com/us-en/Home-Page/Are-You-Ready-/System-Requirements.aspx

System Requirements

Minimum requirements for Windows Vista™ Capable PCs:

    * Modern PC processor, at least 800 MHz
    * 512 MB of system memory
    * Graphics card that supports DirectX 9


Minimum requirements for Windows Vista Premium Ready PCs:

    * 1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor
    * 1 GB of system memory
    * Graphics card that supports DirectX 9, with a WDDM driver, 128 MB of graphics memory (minimum), Pixel Shader 2.0, and 32 bits per pixel
    * 40 GB hard drive with at least 15 GB of free space
    * DVD-ROM drive
    * Audio output capability
    * Internet access capability

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 08:34 PM

or check http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/capable.mspx

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 09:46 PM

Vista has been through more stages of beta testing than any previous Windows version, so it has been wrung out by fairly large numbers of users. It's likely that those who've tried out the beta versions are mostly "techies" whose needs and evaluation criteria aren't necessarily a good match for less sophisticated users. Also be aware that each beta version incorporated changes, so old reviews may dwell on features (or faults) that didn't make it into the final.

Vista is available in several versions, with varying hardware requirements, and with varying features. The information available for choosing the version best suited for your personal computing needs and desires is, at best, "vague." Caution in getting the right version for your current and projected future needs is advised.

(Similarly, with XP - for our new purchaser above. I've never recommended XP Home to any of my friends, although for some truly clueless users it's probably ok. My son didn't listen, and his "Home" has been a RPiA. to ME because he keeps needing support for things that XP Pro would take care of without attention, or that are much easier to handle with tools that XP has and Home does not.)

Release dates have different meanings that are not always clear. Most dates are the dates on which OEM makers can start shipping new computers with Vista pre-installed. Dates on which you can buy the FRP (Full Retail Package) Vista from a retail store will likely be later, so it's not surprising if it's not on the shelf at your local dealer.

Note that with an OEM version, the machine builder will be responsible for all OS support, not Microsoft, if previous policies are applied; and your license is only good while the program remains on the machine where it was originally installed. Probably, with the FRP version, you'll be allowed to move it from one machine to another, as long as it's on only one machine at a time, and Microsoft will provide "warranty" support.

Many(?) OEM makers are shipping new machines with WinXP installed, but with a certificate for a free upgrade to Vista. If buying now that's one way to go; but check out that you're actually getting an appropriate Vista version with the upgrade deal.

Almost every PC-related magazine on the rack has had recent articles on machine requirements for Vista, and on what works with respect to upgrading from an earlier OS. I haven't intended a near-term upgrade, so I haven't paid much attention to the articles coming out. For US users, I've generally found Ziff-Davis (and their "PC Magazine") reliable, but choose one suited to your own level of "techiness." All the best data is useless if you can't read and understand it.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 05:24 AM

How Stanley stayed in control of his computer...

http://www.gocomics.com/compu-toon/2007/01/23/

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 10:20 AM

Many computers with XP have been advertised as "Vista ready." My daughter's dual core Dell, purchased last summer, had that claim. I upgraded her to XP Pro. Whatever you do, get the Pro version of the software, it saves you a lot of grief. If you order a computer you will find the upgrade is most affordable, typically about $75. To buy the box in a store and upgrade yourself will cost more.

Joe, why are you buying a new computer because this one is "full?" Buy an external drive. I've seen the things dirt cheap lately. 300, 400 gig for a couple of hundred or LESS. Move some of that data over to a new drive and keep using your computer. Shop around for a good hard drive, and they don't like to be jostled and moved a lot, so find a place where you're going to put it and leave it there. You can also get great big internal drives, so you could copy your existing drive onto an external drive (operating system and all--use Ghost) then replace the hard drive and rewrite everything back onto it. Or buy a new one and add it--there is usually space for at least one more hard drive inside the case. Make the new one a slave to the old one, or copy as described above and make the old one the slave. There are any number of ways to avoid the expense of a new computer.

While you're at it, get yourself a DVD/CD burner and backup some of that data on a double density DVD. It isn't something you can pop into a player, it's simply an extra form of backup. And shop around for the speed and types of tiles the burner will process. I had to replace a dead DVD writer a few months ago and discovered that there is a new sort of file (can't remember what it's called, but I was comparing features) that the new burners can process. My system is an HP and I shopped around--HP offered the exact drive I lost, but the stores didn't carry it any more because it is being discontinued. And the prices were such that I could buy the newer drive at CompUSA for the same price as HP was offering me the discontinued drive.

My two-cents worth.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: mack/misophist
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 03:03 PM

This morning's news says that MS is already talking about a service pack for vista. Wait. Don't get it yet.

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 12:51 PM

Well, John, this computer is four years old, and it's getting sluggish. I suppose I could repartition the hard drive to give more space for stuff that won't run anywhere but on C:\, but I'm not sure I want to run the risk. I do have an external drive for data, so that's not the problem. For about five hundred bucks, I can get a new computer with a new operating system and a faster microprocessor and more RAM and more storage and better video. Or, I can spend the five hundred bucks and get a new CD burner and a new hard drive, and a cup of coffee....
I will probably take the advice of Mack/Misophist and wait for Service Pack 1 - but it's getting tiring having to move things out of C:\ every week. Why it had to have just a 15 GB C:\ partition, I don't know.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 04:29 PM

Joe, a technician here tells me at about 5 years, have everything saved, because this is the beginning of 'self-destruct' time.
Mine is all saved on a LaCie mobile hard drive- they tell me this is advisable anytime. But I have the cd burner and more memory than I will ever use. Everything important is on cd as well.

I am hopeless with computers, my daughter hand led me through the additions and upgrades.

I am partly in the same boat, my Dell is 5 years old. The other way is rebuild-replacement, which is not always costly, since there are shops (at least one here) where technicians assemble to order. One told me the basic structure of my old Dell is as good or better than the new- just old and should be re-built. In the meantime, have everything backed up.

Dell has opened a sales-demonstration booth in at least one of our local shopping malls. Not pushing Dell since I can't compare, but they have given me good service and no trouble with their machine. It has been upgraded a couple of times. Haven't talked 'turkey' with them. Their top desk assemblies are about $1100 Canadian, and go down to $300 and change.

The Dell web site recommends XP Professional, which is what I have; no discussion of Vista yet.

Joe, get satellite broadband, if you are in the boondocks. My older daughter and her husband, living rural, have it, using one Gates (needed for business programs and applications), and one Apple. In town, our computers, TV and telephone are all handled by the same broadband provider.

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 09:05 AM

A news(?) flash on Vista.

Microsoft Answers 'Vista OEM' Questions, 01.29.07, PC Mag.com

Microsoft Answers 'Vista OEM' Questions
ARTICLE DATE: 01.29.07
By Mark Hachman, ExtremeTech

"A Microsoft representative confirmed that users may buy OEM copy of Windows Vista at a substantial discount, provided they adhere to the terms of the license – which, incidentally, may mean providing support for family members.

"In addition, users should still be subject to the same familiar re-activation restrictions as users of a retail Vista license and Windows XP, a spokeswoman said. Users can alter the PC's hardware substantially, but they will be forced to reactivate – not repurchase the OEM software – if they do, she said."

There's more at the linked article, but basically what it says is that Microsoft appears ready to accept purchase of OEM versions of Vista by individual users, separate from the computer on which it will be installed. Since the OEM versions run about half the price of the corresponding FRP (Full Retail Package) versions, this could be a significant savings for those prepared to do it.

In effect, the purchaser must be prepared to be his/her own OEM. You must receive the OEM software in its original shrinkwrap package. (The one who breaks the shrinkwrap is the OEM for that copy of the program.) Microsoft will not provide software support, and you'll have no one but yourself to provide what you could expect to get from a machine builder if you bought a new computer with OEM Vista installed.

Minor note: the OEM version doesn't come with a user manual.

Understanding the EULA, as published at Microsoft websites (not yet updated for Vista) would seem to be essential, as you need to know what rules you're "interpreting" to use this loophole. IF THIS ARTICLE IS CORRECT, though, Microsoft is giving at least "tacit acceptance" to individual purchase, through resellers, of the cheaper OEM Vista.

Not for the novice, but we may have experienced users who'll be interested. Also, apparently not something one needs to jump onto immediately, as it appears that this "policy drift" should apply later when there's more feedback about installation problems and solutions.

I'd suggest that anyone who might later be interested should bookmark the article. You'll probably want to re-read it to refresh your understanding when/if the time comes. I've already read it at least four times and I'm still not sure I see all the gimmmicks involved.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: robomatic
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 09:19 AM

RE Vista, I'm taking the same position as Joe Offer. I have newer machines, however. I purchased an ACER with XP Home in June, and it has held up well, and though I'm aware of the distinctions between Home and Pro, I have not suffered unduly. The laptop has been a little old trooper, flying with me whereever I went and hanging out at the connected coffee shops (even Starbucks, that ONE time).

I'm not totally confident I want to upgrade unless I have concrete plans that require capabilities I do not now have. Three dimensional imaging for games is not a requirement I have, and I have been able to keep virus clear.

I can perceive that it might be nice to purchase a cheap computer down the line specifically because it's pre-loaded with Vista, or better yet, borrow someone's.

My company is even more conservative. It runs 2000 and is slowly migrating our more CPU intensive users over to XP.

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 09:27 AM

We've got a free upgrade to Vista with our new PC but I think we'll hold off till we see how the new system goes, give it time to settle down and any bugs sorted out.

RtS

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: GUEST,vrdpkr
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 10:38 AM

Buy a Mac.

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: Scrump
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 11:19 AM

So it seems from the thread subject line that Microsoft are being honest for once, selling two versions: Vista Pro and Vista Con :-)

...I'll get me coat.

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 12:44 PM

Scrump -

I think that's pretty much the case. No need to hide.

The problem is that I haven't seen any useful description of what's in each of the 7(?) versions of Vista, so it's really hard to tell which is the Pro and which is the Con.

Vista is intended to have Office 2007 for the application setup, and there are a half-dozen or so versions of it as well, with different combinations of included programs.

It's getting so it's harder to spec the application set than to decide how much computer and OS you need.

It might be worth noting that Vista will include a "Metro Format" printer function. Metro Format, or XMP, is Microsoft's "answer to PDF." If you print to the XMP (XML Paper) printer, you get a file that's supposedly "like a PDF," for passing around the office and posting on the web and on servers. Presumedly, there will be XMP readers, and possibly XMP print drivers, for older Office programs, so that the format will be "universally useful"; but I haven't looked to see if any have appeared yet.

Original plans apparently were to build in PDF, but Adobe objected(?). By some HUGE COINCIDENCE, two days before the official release for sale of Vista (with XMP), Adobe announced that they've released the entire PDF Specification ver 1.7 to the standards group that's to issue it as an ISO Standard. That will make PDF an "open standard" for anyone to use.

The PDF 1.7 Specification has been available for download (as the PDF Handbook) for some time, but it's a 31MB file (over 4.5 hours on my connection), and I can't keep a stable connection on my dialup long enough to get it. (I've got ver 1.3 in hard copy from Barnes, $50 US.) I might be able to download the new one to a CD at my local library, but they limit seat-time to 1 hour increments, with waits to get back on of up to 2 hours, so it's "iffy" there. They claim a "fastest you can get" connection (it isn't), but a recent 51MB download finished after they tossed me off the machine, and I had to wait to get back on the machine to burn the CD - with no guarantee the next 2 users wouldn't stop the download and/or delete it.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 12:50 PM

John...surely you can find someone locally with a fast connection and a burner? Heck...I'd download it and mail you one if nothing else works.

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 01:28 PM

Bill D -

Thanks for the offer, but it's really a rare occasion that I need something too large to snatch overnight.

The PDF Handbook really is only much use to someone who's writing a program, and I don't do that. It's just a curiosity for me, so low priority, and I've got the not-too-old earlier edition.

Similar for the 51 MB download. That was the "Manual for Courts Martial" that I wanted to look at to see what Herr Bush's markup changes (20 pages) have done to it. I've had it for about a month and I'm still on about page 25 (of 897) trying to do anything with it. I got "demilitarized" about 45 years ago, but he says he can put any citizen up in a military court so I was curious.

I should get a download manager so I can do interrupted/segmented downloads, but it hasn't been enough concern to bother.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: danensis
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 03:31 PM

If you want to improve the performance of your PC, just save the data files and install Linux instead of Windoze.

Vista is an operating system built for those who like someone else controlling every aspect of your life. Not only is your hardware tied in to one vendor, but your data will be as well. Want to move to a faster, better, more secure operating system - sorry, your hardware and data files belong to Micro$oft.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 05:46 PM

Dunno if this will confuse more, but the flyers at my door had this table.
Vista operating systems 1. Home basic $129 Can 2. Home premium $179 3. Business $249 4. Ultimate $299 Can.
-Most secure Windows with Wundows Defender and Firewall- 1, 2, 3, 4.
-Find what you need quickly with Instant Search and Internet Explorer 7- 1, 2, 3, 4.
-Elegant Windows Aero desktop with Windows Flip 3D navigation- 2, 3, 4
-Optimized for laptop with Windows Mobility Center and Tablet PC support- 2, 3, 4.
-Collaborate on and share documents with Windows Meeting Space- 2, 3, 4.
-Enjoy photos and entertainment with Media Center and enjoy Media Center on TVs throughout home via Xbox 360- 2, 4.
- Guard against hardware failure with advanced business backup features, enjoy better connectivity with Business Networking and more- 4, 5.
Protect data against loss or theft with Windows BitLocker Drive Encryption- 4.

No, I dunno what all that means. Looks like those who do photo work and play around with media need either 2 or 5.
Home Premium is provided with better PCs; Home Basic with the cheapies.

A similar table is given for the Office Systems (Ultimate-$700 Can).

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 06:56 PM

According to Q's listing, the Business version omits some Media Center junk, and Ultimate adds BitLocker, but otherwise they're all the same.(?) I think there are some differences not shown in the list, but I haven't seen a list that's much better.

I see a BitLocker on version 5, but no name for it. Typo?

My preliminary look on the Media stuff is that it's essentially for TV and Music downloads (mostly for pay), with some "facilitating" of DRM and maybe some whistles and bells for display. Some of the "Media" DRM junk is rumored to require a hardware module, so it gets turned off if you don't buy a specifically compatible computer. IFF (big if) preliminary reports have been correct, you can't buy the decrypt module to add onto an existing computer, although you may be able to add an aftermarket graphics/sound card with the module on it - prices (card only) starting at >$350 (US) and running to near $1K (at ~50W card dissipation) for the couple of available cards that can use it all, according to early reports.

(Closet gamers may find the required graphics cards dump too much heat to use in the closet, and may have to come "out of the closet.")

Working photos isn't "media" in this context, and you want Photoshop (at least Elements) anyway, which doesn't really need a "multimedia" computer for most users, although a "better than average" monitor might be nice.

The BitLocker is supposed to allow encrypting everything on your machine, for "ultimate security," but reports I've seen imply (without saying for sure) that it needs a hardware encrypt/decrypt to give full value. Hard drives designed specifically to use it are just beginning to be available, and for now may be an "extra cost" addition to your computer. There have been reports of a "software fallback" encryption, but it may or may not be available in the other Vista versions.

The "instant search" (all versions?) underwhelmed me when I tried out a beta version on my WinXP machine about a month ago. It theoretically "indexes" everything so that it can search the index instead of looking at everything on the drive, for quicker searches. Until you've run enough searches for it to "learn" (which it's not guaranteed to do), it can only guess what you might look for to decide what to index, and can only find what it indexed. And it disabled Windows Explorer Search leaving you NO WAY to look for anything it missed. For the beta: Download 45 minutes. Install and index 3.9 hours. Five searches for KNOWN FILES about 30 seconds each without finding any of the 5. Uninstall 3.2 minutes.

The "Aero Desktop" appears to be just "bevelled edges" and "3D illusion" on all your icons so far as normal Windows operations are concerned. It may allow some better tiling of open windows, but descriptions have been vague. Other than that, it seems mainly for gamers, and requires hardware of specific kinds that may not be part of most computers as purchased. Preliminary word (unconfirmed) is that most systems managers who are considering Vista for corporate use intend to omit Aero Desktop capabilities in their immediate purchases due to the higher performance machines needed, and may block it even for machines that are capable of using it.

Some early reports offered the opinion that the "Ultimate" version is appropriate only for system administrators who have to use it to remote-manage a network mix of all other types of Vista plus WinXP. It' NOT (according to early reviews) a user machine OS. I don't know if that opinion has remained valid, since the opinion appeared before the final product mix was "locked down."

This is all based on rumor and hearsay, without a lot of confidence that any of it is really accurate. Editors generally are much more impressed than I am with "whistles and bells and go-fast stripes," and it's been really hard to tell when they're raving about a gizmo and when they're actually describing something useful - or dangerous.

If you find any of it completely off base, let me know and I'll give you some more lies unconfirmed rumors.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 07:30 PM

" The "instant search" (all versions?) underwhelmed me"

My Win95 (originally P100!) came with "Full Office" - that version of "keep an index of all the files" SW chewed SO much resources that I killed it... machine ran MUCH faster - and it never seemed to find anything I was looing for anyway...

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 07:36 PM

"and it never seemed to find anything I was looing for anyway"

looking...

just before anybody gets any silly ideas ...

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 07:37 PM

BitLocker on 4; sorry. No 5 (yet?).

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 09:25 PM

A bit more poking around indicates there should actually be 5 Vista versions.

1. Bottom of the Barrel: Windows Vista Home Basic. Security enhancements, bare bones features, probably about $100 (US) upgrade or $199 (US) FRP. Probably quite comparable to WinXP Home. Does NOT DO "Aero Glass" display, so probably looks like WinXP.

2. Windows Vista Business: Equivalent to WinXP Professional. Probably will be the dominant choice for business users. Probably $199 upgrade/$299 FRP. Appears to include compatibility tools to run legacy Windows programs in virtual machine space, but doesn't include the SUA to run UNIX virtual machine.

3. Windows Vista Enterprise: Top of the line for business users. Adds full security features (BitLocker hard drive encryption), application compatibility tools and SUA (allows legacy Windows programs and UNIX programs to run in virtual machine spaces), and unknown "advanced languages capabilities. The "other business version." NOT AVAILABLE AT RETAIL. It can only be purchased on a "per seat license" deal, probably a minimum of 5 seats.

4. For home user nuts, there's Windows Vista Home Premium: Extended media support for home users. Similar to the Media Centre edition of Windows XP, so it's Vista Business with built in DRM and pay-for-play music and DVDs. Probably $159 upgrade/$259 FRP.

5. Windows Vista Ultimate "has everything." In otherwords it's the Vista Enterprise plus multimeda. Probably $259 upgrade/$399 FRP. The only reason I see to consider this one is that it's the only retail version with UNIX virtual machine capability built in, theoretically allowing you to "run UNIX programs in Windows."

Note that THERE IS A DIFFERENCE between Vista Compatible and Vista Premium Compatible that some machine sellers may gloss over:

1. "Vista Compatible" means that the computer will run any version of Vista but it WILL NOT NECESSARILY provide all the features built into Vista Premium. On a Vista Capable machine Vista will run in WinXP mode. "Compatible" machines need an 800 MHz processor, 512MB of RAM, and must have a DirectX 9-capable video processor. For an upgrade installation, the hard drive must have 20GB free space. (Some files that have to be loaded during installation go away on completion.)

2. "Vista Premium Compatible" means the computer will run any version of Vista in the "Aero Glass" mode. To be "Vista Premium Ready" you need a 1GHz processor, 1GB RAM, and a 128Mb video card to meet the Windows Aero specifications. For an upgrade installation, the hard drive must have 40GB free space. Machines with "integrated graphics" are unlikely to meet the requirements or to be upgradeable to meet the Premium Ready requirements.

Double the minimum RAM requirements and get a big hard drive, as always, if you want to do more than limpalong computing.

Once again: "according to the most believable liars found thus far." No guarantees on these specs, since they'r mostly a month or two pre-release.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 02:40 AM

A new note on Vista.

PC Magazine Reports that one of the ways you can get Vista is to download (for a purchase price fee) the whole thing from Microsoft or from any of several "Microsoft Partners," (one of whom is Circuit City).

Also reported is that if there are any problems with the installation, you will be instructed to "insert your Vista Installation DVD," which, in the case of a download you will not have.

At present, neither Microsoft nor the "Microsoft Partners" have made any arrangements to provide you with a DVD, so if you encounter any problems during installation you're in the condition familiarly known as

            S. O. L.

Advice, at least until Mickey figures out a better way is:

DO NOT BUY THE DOWNLOAD VERSION TO UPGRADE TO VISTA!

DO NOT BUY THE DOWNLOAD VERSION TO UPGRADE TO VISTA!

DO NOT BUY THE DOWNLOAD VERSION TO UPGRADE TO VISTA!

DO NOT BUY THE DOWNLOAD VERSION TO UPGRADE TO VISTA!

DO NOT BUY THE DOWNLOAD VERSION TO UPGRADE TO VISTA!

Just in case anyone has a connection that makes it feasible to download a monster that size...

John

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: Amergin
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 03:14 AM

So should I buy the download version to upgrade to Vista?

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 03:51 AM

For you, maybe we'd make an exception.

Maybe.

...

John

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 04:32 AM

I would never move to a new OS for at least 12 months of its hitting the store shelves; not for personal use, neither for professional (I determine the upgrade strategy for our company). The reason is 27 years in IT and the scars that come from believing manufacturers' and software companies' promises. Like "Vista has been through the most extensive beta testing of any OS". I believe the statement, but it gives me no comfort.

Anyway, why be on the leading(bleeding) edge of technology? What ounce of advantage could one possibly be seeking from entering the fray so soon?

In the case of Vista, there is additionally a major questionmark over the whole Digital Rights Management (DRM) business, how it works and what it might end up doing to one's machine and data. I have not seen an "all clear" on this anywhere outside the Microsoft publicity machinery.

No - XP Professional has to be my OS of choice for now, and for the next 12 months.

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 05:01 AM

Don't believe me, read this . To quote from the article's conclusion:

"So would I do it again? The answer is no. Do what I originally had planned to do. Wait for half a year until the driver issues are settled and then buy a new PC.

You will probably enjoy Vista, but there's little reason to do it the hard way."

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 05:10 AM

This is a prize example of capitalism being a conspiracy against the interests of the consumer.

Does anyone really want all this shit? We just want a Morris Minor that will reliably get us to our destination without error or interference.

That is why the Amstrad Word processor continued to sell and sell and sell until it was just TOOOOO old fashioned.

W95 provided plenty of functionality. All it needed was to be reliable. What did Gates do? Tart it up and make it worse.

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: oggie
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 02:40 PM

Son and heir to family overdraft has a copy, came free as he's a computer science student and was involved in Beta test. His considered opinion is avoid for the moment and avoid permanently unless your machine is high spec (sorry, very high spec). It is very RAM and CPU heavy, he's running 2gig of RAM and notices a difference over XP.

There is also the DRM issue. His copy is now quarentined on a virtual computer with limited access to the rest of his hard-drives.

All the best

Steve Ogden

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 02:42 PM

Consensus opinion has been that Win98SE was the first "good" (by standards at the time) Windows, and that WinXP was the first "better than Win98SE," unless you had server function needs that justified the hassles of Win2K or NT4 - both a bit questionable.

WinXP SP2 should have approximately 5 years left in the "supported" category, before it goes in the trash with Win98SE. Without SP2, WinXP is already "not supported," like Win98SE. The only thing keeping Win98SE able to get critical updates appears to be that it is the most recent version that can be legally exported to "questionable" places like China, and a few million Chinese users (with mostly pirated copies?) are sufficient to keep it barely alive.

Vista does include some new "features" that even Symantec agrees will make it a little "safer," at least 'till the mobs figure out how to crack in.

For those with a real interest, PC Magazine Report on Symantec Analyses reports a Symantec analysis of the new "security features" in Vista.

The Symantec "White Paper" cited in the PC Mag article is at Symantec Security Analyses of Vista. It's readable enough maybe to be of interest to general users, but likely will be more interesting to those with "systems" to support.

Given Symantec's rather vociferous complaints about Vista in recent weeks, it's hard to call this an "unbiased" report, but it's almost certainly a competent one - by someone other than Mickey and crew. It's not entirely unfavorable.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 02:48 AM

Not specifically a Vista problem, but Vista owners are expected to be the main ones using the new Microsoft Security Suite called "OneCare."

It is necessary to understand that Outlook and Outlook Express save email in a database format in which all the messages in a folder are contained within a single file. The folder is the file.

It has been found that when OneCare finds anything it considers "malware" in an individual message it may delete - or depending on your settings, quarantine - an entire folder. In Outlook, that may wipe out your entire .ost file, which means ALL YOUR MAIL is gone. In OE, it should normally be just one folder that disappears.

Microsoft OneCare Can Eat Your Email gives an outline of the problem, with links to other information.

Neil Rubenking's blog post on how to fix it, with appropriate comments, may be of interest.

Of course, Mickey is working on a fix, but the new OneCare isn't faring well out in public:

Neil Rubenking's recent review of OneCare, before this "feature" was found.

A recent PC Magazine Review of several security suites in which OneCare finished last - too bad to be rated. The review was of "high end" suites, generally, but someone might be interested in one of the other things included in the review.

Lest anyone think that only Microsoft has these kinds of problems, it's also been found that a new program/addon from McAfee, called "SpamKiller" has the feature of deleting all the message content from any email sent by anyone using Lotus Notes. You can't fix it, since the "problem" is at the senders' end. It doesn't matter what the content is, if it's from Lotus Notes it's SPAM!

McAfee SpamKiller Kills Lotus Notes has some details. [At time of posting, this page didn't respond; but I think the link is good and perhaps it will come back later so I'll leave it in.] The message content may be available if you "view source," but you have to sort it out from the code.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 03:36 AM

Well, I got a new Hewlett Packard computer with Windows Vista a month ago. So far, I'm very happy with it. It's fast and seems stable, and Office 2007 is very nice to work with. My previous computer was four years old and very sluggish.

I wonder why anybody would want to upgrade to Windows Vista on an older computer - the cost of the operating system is a healthy down payment on a new computer.

I still haven't found a solution to my main sluggishness problem - my dialup Internet connection. No cable or DSL out here in the sticks, and satellite seems too darn expensive.

One thing about Windows Vista bugs me - the screen fonts aren't as distinct and clear as what I had on Windows XP. I'm set for ClearType fonts on an LCD monitor, but there's some other setting I must be missing.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Mar 07 - 08:49 AM

The Aussie Magazine Atomic issue 75 has an 8 A4 page article on fine tuning Vista. For non-Aussies, I suppose most of the useful info will turn up in most other PC Mags eventually.

Things like killing unneeded processes, other speedups and recovering wasted memory/disk space, etc.

www.atomicmpc.com.au

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: Bert
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 12:28 AM

I've not seen it yet but I'll guarantee that if it is by Microsoft then it won't work properly.

Subject: RE: Tech: comments on Windows Vista Pros & Cons
From: GUEST,Darowyn
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 06:53 AM

Advice for people who use their computer for music is to stay away from Vista for now.
None of the current Audio Packages are guaranteed to run under Vista, and there are driver issues with some of the most popular interfaces.
So if you run Cubase, Logic, ProTools, Digital Performer, Sonar etc.
then give it a year or two for the software to catch up with Vista.
There are still problems with Intel Macs used for Music too- before the Mac crew get too smug about it.
Cheers
Dave