Bequeathing instruments & books

Subject: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 02:38 PM

Several friends have died recently and I'm becoming aware that a person should (outside of a formal will) write down how one wants their belongings divided up. Especially their musical effluvia.

My problem is that neither one of my children is musical, and in briefly discussing it with my wife she indicated she would probably take my instruments to the local music store and "hope that they would give her a fair price for them."

I have a pretty good collection of music books and some relatively nice instruments. I think the books are better as a collection - not split up. I would hope a good musician could get use the instruments.

What sort of bequeathing strategy do you fellow mudcatters reccomend?

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: Scoville
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 02:45 PM

I don't have anything of importance to give to anyone, but as far as the books go you might check into university or college libraries to see if any of them had a collection that might welcome the kinds of things you have.

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 02:46 PM

Depends were you are.
Our books and recordings are bequeathed to The Irish Traditional Music Archive.
If we had musical instruments we would probably leave them to somewhere like The Piper's Club which has a policy of lending instruments to learners.
Jim carroll

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:08 PM

"...The minstrel fell, but the foeman's chains could not bring that proud soul under/The harp he loved ne'er spoke again for he tore it's chords asunder..."

"...He took his fiddle in both of his hands
And he broke it o'er a stone
Saying "No other hand shall play on thee
When I am dead and gone"...."

Leave the book collection, as suggested above, to a local library, university or public, that can use them.

Leave the instruments to the university music department or a local school of music. Or give them away to those who are very interested in music before you go.

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:09 PM

A collection (as opposed to an accumulation) of books -- especially a well rounded one -- is generally worth at least a third more in total value than the books would sell for individually.

Linn

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:12 PM

Excellent subject, Les. Thanks for bringing it up!

I've got a couple of really fine instruments, a whole bookcase full of songbooks, texts on folk songs and ballads, and on music in general, and a couple of filing cabinets full of similar stuff, along with about four feet of shelf-space devoted to vinyl and a four or five foot stack of CDs. I'd really hate to see all of that just dissipate like fog in the wind. Time to put some thought to the matter!

An old friend of mine was not a singer, but he was very much into folk music and had a fantastic collection of records, over 600 altogether. As long as we were careful with them (vinyl), he would allow some of us to borrow records from his collection to learn songs from. A lot of the songs in my repertoire came from records in his collection. A couple of decades ago, he died. His wife (a truly lovely and wonderful woman) didn't understand the value of his collection and simply sold it to a second-hand record store. For $300. 50¢ apiece. When he heard about it, another friend, and one of the better singers around here, said, "If I'd known ahead of time that she wanted to sell them, I would have given her at least $3000 for the collection!" (Which was much more that he could have afforded at the time, but he would have done it anyway. So would I.)

A marvelous, valuable resource, all just pooped away.

Definitely worth thinking long and hard about.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: SINSULL
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:19 PM

I am sick and tired of people dying around here. Stay and this won't be an issue.

I honestly haven't given a thought to my books - some treasures in there. When a neighbor passed away, her family from out of state chose what possessions they wanted and sold a bunch to a book dealer. In the trash were a number of signed prints and paintings which I rescued. I just sold one for $2500+ and have contacted the family. She was a good friend and I know she would want them to have the money. They have asked me to split it with them.

Don't throw things away without checking them out. And don't assume that a box of eg junk jewelry is all junk. I have stuff tucked away in all sorts of odd places usually out of sheer laziness.

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: Folkiedave
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:26 PM

I cannot help with the instruments but I am happy to discuss the pro's and con's of the books.

Few general book dealers know the specialised field that is books on folk music. Thus you will be lucky to get a proper price. Having said that how can you decide a "proper price"?

I'd do it now and take your time. Get to know your way around the books databases and the language book dealers use so you have an idea.

To most book dealers condition is all important - to folk buyers it isn't.

To most dealers provenance (ex-library of....., signed copy) can add a premium, to folk buyers it rarely does.

In the databases Amazon tends to be way over the top on price.

There can be huge differences in prices try and work out why - though usually the high price is Amazon (see above).

When valuing from databases take a median as your price - not a mean.

Books with songs and tunes can command a premium over books with no tunes.

Try and find if any of the books you are trying to value are on ebay - if so watch them and see how the price goes.

You will get approx. half their value from a dealer. If you work them out to be let's say £1000 via databases expect to be offered £300-500.

ABE has a premium on the prices because of the charges - so don't use it as gospel on price.

Try not to sell at auction and as a collection. You will get the very worst price.

Ebay is good and whilst it is a fiddle at first - it can get easier once you are used to it. You will tend to get the best price here so it is worth it.

Some books are worth a lot. But there aren't many so learn what they are.

By all means bequeath your stuff as Jim has suggested. With a proviso which I am sure Jim has done but doesn't mention!! Make sure the intended destination actually wants your stuff!! I know that may seem obvious but few institutions want large collections. See my comments (somewhere) on threads re: Peter Kennedy and his collection.

I can go on for ever and (often have) about the lack of appreciation for collections of folk material. But that doesn't help you.

Finally don't offer me anything for about a year. I have just bought a large library and my wife is going barmy. I have tried telling her to think of it as living in a library, it didn't go down well.

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: Darowyn
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:32 PM

In my filing cabinet, next to a copy of my actual will is a little notebook with pictures of all my guitars and other valuable possessions along with a rough valuation.
So if anything happens to me, my surviving relatives will at least know not to get a bunch of house clearance people in to rip them off.
I resolutely intend to live long enough to spend all my money.
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:42 PM

Leave valuable instruments to specific people who you have told in advance. Put it in your will or a codicil. If the family do not appreciate good instruments, bugger them.

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: Stower
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:42 PM

Les, I would say that it's best to take time to consider: don't rush into a possibly regretable decision - the instruments and books can always be stored for the right time. You don't say what kind of quality the instruments are. Are they professional standard instruments? This, I think, makes a huge difference to where they might go. Lots of English instrument shops (you don't mention where you are) will sell an instrument for you, if that's your decision - but they often take a hefty 1/3 cut for themselves.

I take it that the friends who died recently didn't express views on what should happen to their books and instruments? Did they have friends who would appreciate them?

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:54 PM

I've got in my will that my instruments should be given to someone who would make good use of them.

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: Scoville
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 04:12 PM

How specifically do you have that lined out? Depending on how much your executors know about that sort of thing, it's probably better not to leave it too open-ended.

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 04:26 PM

Best I can do is my 1929 Conn trumpet. I used to have a fife but I gave it away. Also my tin whistle. And I don't play guitar or banjo or anything.

Fortunately, my wife is also a librarian and appreciates the value (both intrinsic and monetary) of books.

But I still want my worldly possessions piled onto a longship, my body placed atop the pile, and with my wife lamenting my passing and the sails set, the whole thing set alight and shoved out to sea. (My wife objects to this.)

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 05:18 PM

Well at least you don't insist she be on the longship with you!**bg**

Darowyn, what a good idea. Thanks!

I have been sending a lot of books, periodically, over the past five years to a Mudcatter who lost everything in a house fire, esp. music books. We have similar tastes and I don't have use for some of them anymore.

I have asked my kids what they are interested in and it looks as though at least one grandson will be learning an instrument, so he may wind up with a fiddle or two. Both of my fiddles are family heirlooms, so they will stay in the family, regardless.

As to all of my other stuff, tucked here and there like Sinsull, I imagine, I have considered taking digital photos of it all and putting names to each piece, but that could take years! My grandma did that in a way. she put a piece of tape on each thing with one of her children's or grandchildren's names on it. Saved a lot of heartache.

Good thread. Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: KT
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 12:53 AM

I have instructed my children that they are NOT to dispose of three of my most valued instruments. (the three, by the way, are NOT the most valuable monetarily, but have other, greater significance) My children are not players, but what a treasure someday for their children, or their children's children. They can get rid of everything else, but they have to hold on to these three items for the someday musicians.

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: GUEST,J C
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 03:11 AM

Further thoughts;
A well known folklorist bequeathed his collection to a college.
His subject was British and European folklore.
Six months after his death many of his non-English language books were to be found in the bargain box at 10p each.
Here in the West of Ireland we are attempting to set up a local archive of music, lore, history, photographs etc. Any such archive in your area could well benefit from such donations.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: Marje
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 04:03 AM

Yes, I'd endorse what Jim says and be wary of leaving books to a library unless you know they have a use and space for them. Many public lending libraries in Britain are short of space and only really want popular books (and copies that are strong and undamaged). Maybe a library at a university or college with a relevant music course would be suitable, but I'd check this out first.

I've also given this subject some thought, as I have quite a valuable instrument and quite a number of interesting books - well, they are to me but wouldn't be to most people. The books would fetch reasonable prices on eBay, but that entails quite a bit of effort from someone.

I think what I'm going to do is write a "Letter of Wishes" to put with my will. This isn't binding on the executors but does give them some ideas of what you want, and can be flexible in a way that a will can't. So I could say something like "Offer the books to my children/brother/niece etc, in that order, let them take what they want, and then ask X to find homes for the rest, or sell them on eBay and use the money for..."..whatever. And whoever I leave the melodeon to will be told they have to learn to play it as part of the deal.

Yes, if you live to be old, it's a good idea to actually label things (the mother of a friend of mine did this and it made life much easier for others when she died very suddenly), or even give them away when you have no more use for them But as none of us knows when the Grim Reaper will arrive, it's a good idea to make some sort of arrangements when you're still full of life and energy.

Very interesting thread, Les B, thanks for starting it.

Marje

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: dermod in salisbury
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 04:17 AM

Two options. Give them away now to the person or organisation who you know can make good use of them on condition that you retain their use for life and put it all in writing.   Or, if you want to raise cash for your dependents and the instruments are of recognised quality, do a little research and find a good auction house which specialises in instruments (eg Phillips in UK), and leave clear instructions so that your beneficiaries know how to set up disposal sensibly. Same with books which can sold through appropriate specialist journals as a library.

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: Cats
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 12:25 PM

You could try leaving them to an educational folk trust along the lines of Wren Music in Devon, UK. They would keep your books for reference and allow other musicians to use the instruments so they would end up with someone who would make really good use of them. Jon's uncle got round this by saying the guitar is yours now but you have to come to Canada and collect it before I die and in the next 2 years. We went. It turned out that it's actually worth more than both of our air fares put together but we didn't know that at the time! Depends on how much you want it I suppose.

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 03:04 PM

Be careful of leaving anything to museums or historical societies. My friend's older family member donated some valuable heirlooms from early colonial days in the US to a museum. A few years later on a trip to view said *gifts* they were told the museum no longer had room for them and so they'd been sold. IF they had contacted the family, esp. the younger generations, THEY would have purchased the items and kept them in the family, at least. Also, museums, etc. are under no obligation to display items you may donate; they may just be stored forever with no chance of anyone seeing them.

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 09:11 PM

THIS would be a great place to send your instruments OR start this kind of program in your community!

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 11:02 AM

There are some fine ideas to chew on here. It will, hopefully, be 20- 25 years (statistically) before I have to use them, but one never knows :).

Someone asked why I was contemplating this subject: A friend who passed on recently hadn't spoken to one of his sisters for years because she had "pillaged" their mother's house before he and his other sister had a chance to say what they wanted. I believe he died without reconciling with her, although she was one of the weepiest at his memorial service.

On the other hand, my wife's mother had taped the name of each of her five children on each piece she thought they might want. If someone wanted to "trade" it later, fine. It worked really well and all are happy.

I have thought about libraries for the books, but have somewhat the same unease as several have expressed - they will end up for 10 cents a book in a fundraising bin. I think I would rather find a folk club who might want them - unfortunately none exist here regionally (western U.S.).

For the instruments I would like to gift one or more playing musicians who would appreciate and use them. But that seems like a formula to really tick off your friends if one gets something and another doesn't. On the other hand, what are they going to do - you're dead !

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: GUEST,Patrick Costello
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 11:27 AM

Take what you have, separate what you actually need and give the rest away.

Not to a library. Not to a folk club. Just go out into your community and share with people who might not have the money to get started in music. Your life will be enriched, the music will go on and everybody wins.

We;re supposed to be musicians - and as such the only monument we really need is the next generation playing the music we love.

-Patrick

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: Scoville
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 11:38 AM

Don't give them to a public library, certainly--they're probably too special-interest for the user base, and public libraries are going more and more digital and shared-resources, anyway. Private/academic libraries, or give them to an individual who can really use them.

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 07:07 PM

Don, was that Elmar? That's so sad.

I still have Dad's collection, minus some of the big charismatic books my siblings skimmed off. Child, Lomax, etc. But I have all of the little ones, old ones, regional ones, those that are much harder to replace. All of the cassettes, all of the reel to reel, and 3/4 of the LPs. No guitars, sad to say, and also went a number of other instruments. I have two mountain dulcimers and a student hammered dulcimer. Phil Thomas' death this week was a reminder that I still need to do a lot of work with this, and one less resource person for the job.

SRS

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 08:31 PM

The university libraries I've worked in mostly accept donations under the condition that they are free to dispose of any items that are duplicated in the existing library collections. I'd prefer to approach an interested researcher who would appreciate my private collection.

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 09:41 PM

I work at a university library, and spoke with three different libraries that were interested in this collection. I would never just hand over the stuff, there is a lot of planning involved, including the possibility of raising money for an endowment so the library can afford to have someone begin processing it. Sometimes libraries will purchase collections--we typically purchase a portion and the seller donates part. Tons of stuff stays in boxes for a long time and gets moved to remote storage unless some provision is made to bump it to the head of the list.

SRS

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: JohnB
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 10:09 PM

My local museum has as least one sometimes two auctions each year of
"donations" that they do not want (for various reasons).
The funds however are used to support the ongoing museum costs.
JohnB.

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: Mooh
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 10:54 PM

My instruments will go to kin or friends who will appreciate them. Books likewise.

My personal collection of hymn and related books increased tenfold once I took possession of my parents' collections, and I hope that either my children, church, or friends will be interested when the time comes.

My maternal grandfather's fiddle is mine to use though my sister inherited it. Just to imagine how he played Scottish trad tunes on it at the end of the work day is a huge gift...and I never knew the man. Dad's autoharp (early '60s solid wood) is mine now. Dad's piano went to another sister, though I can play it whenever I want.

The greatest inheritance has been the knowledge, training, ability, appreciation, and love of music I got from my parents. To say I miss them understates the fact immeasurably, but I have these things, tangible and otherwise, to remind me of them. I hope that remnants of my music might affect others in the next generation.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Bequeathing instruments & books
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 01:06 AM

Not every collection is going to be treated the same by special collections at libraries. They won't usually accept a collection unless it contributes to what they already specialize in.

I have donated books to public libraries with the full understanding that they may either add books to their circulating or non-circulating collection or may sell them to raise money. Last time I did this in a big way was at my great aunt's home in Ansonia, CT, where she lived literally across the street from the library. When she was no longer able to walk well the librarians used to select books (murder mysteries!) for her and bring them over. Her library card number was so low (her number was 57--this retired school teacher read voraciously all of her life) that they looked at the cards in the pockets to see if her number appeared already. :) I had one of the librarians step over to the house and select the books she wanted to either use or sell.

SRS