Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?

Subject: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: MudGuard
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 02:59 PM

Hi,

I have a small problem - I don't know where to put my finger for a particular note I encountered when trying to learn a new tune.
I can (with some effort) read notes, but am no expert on the wording for the stuff (and even less in a foreign language like English).
My tin whistle is in D.
Here I try to give you a picture of the note:

                  -O-
             #O
  ---#--||-------------O--------|
        ||                  O   |
  ------||----------------------|
    #   ||                      |
  ------||----------------------|
        ||                      |
  ------||----------------------|
        ||                      |
  ------||----------------------|
  

i.e. the tune has two crosses, the note in question (the first one in the picture) is above the top line and has a cross.
Without the cross, I would cover I'd cover the top three holes of my tin whistle and overblow (that should be a high G).
But with the additional cross, I don't know which holes to cover ...

Is there a way to play this note without half-covered holes?

Many thanks in advance!

Andy a/k/a MudGuard

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: Scoville
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:06 PM

That appears to be a G#. Since that's not in the regular D scale I don't know how you'd do it without half-fingering. Hopefully, though, somebody here knows more about tin whistle than I do and can give you a better suggestion.

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: MudGuard
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:07 PM

If it's not possible without half-covering, I accept suggestions for half-covering solutions as well ... ;-)

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: Bernard
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:08 PM

Here's how - though you need careful blowing!

@ = closed hole, O = open hole...


@
@
O

@
@
O

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: Bernard
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:09 PM

Sorry - in case you're not sure, your mouth is at the top of the diagram!

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: Stower
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:25 PM

MudGuard, I strongly recommend that you don't avoid half-holing. If you do, you are stopping yourself from using an important technique and playing lots of great music. Like all new skills, it may seem difficult at first. Keep practising and before long you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: MudGuard
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:53 PM

Bernard, thanks - it is tricky (a little bit too much blowing and the sound goes wild, same for a little bit too little blowing) ...

Ian, so far I found fingerings for all the notes I wanted to play without half-holing ...

If you can offer a half-holed option for what seems to be G# I will give it a try ...

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: Willa
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:56 PM

Here's a helpful site
http://www.fullbodyburn.com/html/flutes/whistle_main.html
as you can see, there are 3 ways of fingering the G# Try them and see which you find easiest, but as Ian says, don't be afraid of half-holing.

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: Willa
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 04:00 PM

http://www.stainedglass.org/other_pages/tinwhistle/whistle_main.html

seem to be having trouble making the lihk -Hope this works!

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: Willa
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 04:04 PM

You need to click on 'Chart' once you find the site.

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: MudGuard
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 04:35 PM

Willa, thanks for that link - it is now bookmarked in my firefox browser!

I will try all combinatioins tomorrow morning - tonight I don't want to wake my neighbors with my attempts in the high octave (local time: 22:02 or 10pm)

By the way, I was not speaking the truth about not using half-holing.
I found out that I can play a C# (below the lower D)
by covering all finger holes on the front of the whistle and half-covering the hole at the bottom of the whistle (with my little finger)

Andy a/k/a MudGuard

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: alison
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 06:07 PM

Hi Mudguard,

easiest way is to bend your G
instead of playing with your top 3 fingers.
play with the top 2 and a half

as if you were going to slide from a G(3 fingers) into an A(2 fingers), just get half way through the slide

when you get confident enough at it - you can just aim for the G# without sliding into it.

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: GUEST,Nick
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 06:55 PM

As for half-holing I have some questions...
Do people try to cover the top half, bottom half, right or left half? Or if you put your whole finger pad over the whole but dont actualy close it but move finger close enough that you are able to affect air flow can you get the same results?
Nick

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 07:10 PM

I don't want to wake my neighbors Keeping a whistle handy in the car is a good wheeze - go, and there's no trouble with the neighbours.

Only thing is, it always seems to get the lights to change or the traffic to start moving again, so musical progress is slow.

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: Bernard
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 08:35 PM

When I'm half-holing I tend to 'hinge' the finger from the side of the hole - different from slurring notes where I slide from above the hole, or up from the hole depending on the pitch direction of the slur.

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 09:31 PM

Andy - Only just spotted this thread ! - Bernards two holes BELOW is an easy way to get that one , especially if you need to repeat it ! We
must have a 'workshop' at portaferry !

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: MudGuard
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 02:15 AM

Kevin, it is a bit too expensive for me to buy a car just for exercising the tin whistle at night times ;-)

Terry, good idea!

All others: thanks for your advice!

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 02:24 PM

One way of Half Holing is to put your finger where you would if you were normally covering the hole, but then straighten the finger slightly as if you were rolling it sideways. This uncovers part of the hole. Which way the whistle rolls depends on which hand the finger is on.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 07:14 AM

" I found out that I can play a C# (below the lower D)
by covering all finger holes on the front of the whistle and half-covering the hole at the bottom of the whistle (with my little finger)"

I have a whistle with no holes - all notes (pitches) are created by a combination of overblows & covering the open end.

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: Alec
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 07:40 AM

"Chiff & Fipple" (available via Mudcat's links)is a good site to bookmark for all whistle related matters.

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: VIN
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 08:55 AM

I find that if i put my whole finger pad over the hole but don't close it, i get a bum note. I usually do half notes left to right (for left hand) or right to left (right hand) and the same for slurring (or 'sliding' from one note into another) rather than top to bottom. But whatever you try, practice makes perfect!

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: Bernard
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 10:29 AM

That must be why I'm no good, then!!

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 11:15 AM

Perhaps the tune might be better played on a descant or tenor recorder, where cross fingering will give a you a G sharp accurately in tune with no tricky breath control required?

I have seen whistle players solve this problem with a power drill, making an extra hole for the right thumb. A keyed flute does the same, operating the hole with an ancillary key for the left little finger.

What is the tune, anyway?

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 03:18 PM

Jack - Do YOU play whistle ?? Its a totally different instrument to a recorder - You might just well suggest playing a Clarinet !

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: Bernard
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 03:20 PM

Jack, there's no problem to solve...!

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 03:37 PM

I have played the whistle (don't much any more - where there's a choice I much prefer the recorder, or any of several other instruments). My point was exactly that they *are* different instruments, and there are some kinds of music that work better on one or the other. Without knowing what the original poster wanted to play, there's no way to know what the best solution is. Clarinet might well be it for all we've been told.

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: Bernard
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 04:42 PM

It doesn't matter which wind instrument you play, to do it properly you need good breath control.

I play whistle and Boehm System flute, which is handy because many of the fingerings work on either - I find the recorder much more difficult in comparison, because some of the frequently used fingerings differ quite significantly from the flute.

The Concert Flute is technically a 'D' instrument, with extensions down to C (one of mine has a 'B foot' - very useful!), so the similarities with a D whistle are to be expected.

The recorder and the clarinet are somewhat similar - particularly as the clarinet overblows at the twelfth rather than the octave, which coincides with the two classes of recorder - the 'C' (E.G. Descant and Tenor) and the 'F' (E.G. Sopranino and Treble). However, the infamous 'bridge' between the upper and lower registers on the Clarinet is unique!

Adolph Sax attempted to make a metal clarinet, failed, and accidentally created the Saxophone in the process... his design of the Bass Clarinet is the one still in use - which bears a striking resemblance to a Saxophone. Can't think why...

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 07:30 PM

I have a metal clarinet. They have been popular as band instruments over the years. The British Army and a lot of American bands used them in the early 20th century; there's usually one for sale on eBay at any time (generally a B flat Boehm-system). Mine is a Turkish Albert-system clarinet in G, which was introduced in France as the "clarinette d'amour", rendered in Turkish as "ashk klarneti" which is closer to"lust clarinet". It's a handy size for Scottish music, as in the low register it fingers like a D whistle and in the upper register like a pipe chanter in A. At the low end I either play an improvised alto line or else do fiddle tunes an octave down.

A friend of mine has a double-walled E flat metal clarinet. The double-wall construction (like a thermos with tone holes) was a late 19th century attempt at making a metal clarinet that sounded like wood. Since it was a lot more expensive to make than a wooden model it didn't really take off.

Play enough woodwind instruments and distinctions between their techniques more or less evaporate. You alter the pitch of a note by partial opening, cross-fingering or providing an extra hole. That's not a lot of alternatives to remember. Mentally you organize them rather like object-oriented programming: think of fingering systems as falling into hierarchical subgroupings. If you've got a key you use it, if you haven't you crossfinger, if that doesn't work you half-hole.

The one that really doesn't fit is closed fingerings for bagpipes like the Border pipes, where (more or less) only one hole is left open. With other instruments you think about what fingers you're putting down, with these you think about the fingers you're *not* putting down. Still boggles my mind a bit.

I'd still like to know what the original poster's tune is.

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: MudGuard
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 04:51 PM

Sorry for the delay, Jack, I didn't come to Mudcat for some days.

The ASCII art above is not part of the actual tune, it was just an example which shows which note I meant.

The tune I try to learn is "Da Slockit Light"

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle - how to play certain note?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 07:29 PM

Da Slockit Licht will work on a whistle, since that G sharp is a leading note to the A above and it's okay to use a slight upward slide to the right pitch (not from G natural, start somewhere in the right ballpark). If you were singing the tune you might well do that instinctively. If you're playing on your own or with other players of the same mind, that "right pitch" might be some way flat of an equal tempered G sharp.

A low D whistle is better, though. It's a tune that benefits from something with a strong, rich tone and accurate intonation (i.e. *not* a Generation high D). I prefer an alto flute or tenor recorder, thought I've also played it on a greatbass recorder with somebody else improvising a harmony on a low D whistle.