Ron Trueman Border

Subject: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 08:40 AM

Ron Trueman Border, singer songwriter is arguably the best singer songwriter in the business. I enjoy listening to him and play a few of his songs myself. I just wondered what other people thought of him.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 09:34 AM

Good in parts, though I'd argue with you about him being "the best s/s in the business". Better live than recorded, I feel.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 12:43 PM

Ron did a main Guest for me at Market Rasen Folk Club. he was excellent and we had a full house. This man really knew how to please the audience. A must to go and see.
Incidentally we knew nothing about him when we booked him, but I can tell you there was a full village hall of converts.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Girl Friday
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 07:06 PM

It's surprising what you find when cruising the waters of the Good Ship Mudcat. RTB has been a resident at my Folk Club ever since he displayed his considerable talents, one quiet night in August 199?.
Although his success takes him away from home an awful lot, we are justly proud of "Our Ron". Success hasn't changed him one bit.
His club nickname is "Prolific", and, when he can, he comes down and tries out as many new songs on us as he can.
Ron's Home Club

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: The Barden of England
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 02:59 AM

A truly gifted singer/songwriter and a nice bloke too. I love his stuff and sing the odd one or two myself. To anybody who hasn't seen him the try and do so the next time he's in your area. Not to be missed.
John Barden

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 06:58 AM

There we go:

Ron's site:
http://www.rontruemanborder.co.uk/pre_home.htm

I agree, he's a superb songwriter. He should have a Myspace page as well and start spreading his songs right out around the world...Could someone whisper in his ear next time they see him please! ;0)


Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Moses
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 01:19 PM

I first saw Ron at Orpington and then at the St Albans Windward club when it was at the Hing Harry.

He's well worth going to see. A good performer of well crafted songs.

Christine

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,Wayne
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 01:54 PM

If you're ever in the environs of Sheffield, Paul Pearson, the Steel Town Troubadour, does excellent versions of a number of RTB songs.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,Wayne
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 02:04 PM

Forgot to mention that you can see Paul in concert at the Doncaster folk weekend 9-11 Feb. (I think it's at the Ukranian Club).

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Rasener
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 02:17 PM

Paul is also doing a floorspot at Faldingworth Live (used to be Market Rasen Folk Club) soon.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Girl Friday
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 04:54 PM

Paul is a lovely bloke too. Has come down to Orpington twice, to see Ron on home ground. We've yet to hear him doing any of Ron's songs though. Ron wouuld love to get a myspace sight. He doesn't know how to. He could ask Andy Smythe, but can anyone else help him ?

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 05:00 PM

Hev aah not been singing this man's praises for years???

Aah've been very fortunate in recording a trio of Ron's songs and have had the pleasure of performing his songs with him (along with my daughters too)

IMHO he's up there with Richard T an' aall them - Forst class songs, supremely crafted.

Gan and see and hear him on www.ezfolk.com

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Spot
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 02:09 PM

Allo everybody

               Hmmmm....RTB....hmmm...is he an Englishman?   Hmmmm....If he is then I'm afraid I have a prob with his "American" accent...I confess to not having seen the man live but, after listening to his on-site mp3s, to me, he's another one of a million wannabee's. I don't doubt for a minute he's a talented wordsmith but,again, for me, if you English, you sing English ( or try anyways!!) I have no axe to grind with the guy at all...but....   I have heard it said that the TB bit stands for "truly boring"

      Absolutely no offence intended Mr TB - just a few observations...And, if you play where I can get to see you, I will...
            
               Regards to all,    Spot   :-)

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Rasener
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 02:16 PM

If you haven't seen him Spot, I don't think you are in a position to criticise him.
Have a look at my post above. I don't make comments like that unless I feel they are justified.
In fact I was dubious about putting Ron on at my club, but took the gamble and I am so glad I did. He got 10 out of 10 from my audience which happened to be a sell out. Don't judge him on the mp3's. Go and see him and then come back and do a review on him.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Spot
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 02:21 PM

Allo everybody...
   Fair comment, Mr Villan, but surely his mp3s are there to judge whether one would like his stuff or not.... His stuff doesnt immediately appeal to me....but as I said, I'm quite happy to see him live .....

      Regards to all.... Spot    :-)

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Mick Tems
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 04:23 PM

Ron is guesting on March 16 at the Valley Folk Club in the Ivy Bush Inn, Pontardawe.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 09:30 AM

I reckon RTB startring this thread !!!! ha! Ha!

Jo jo

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Spot
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 10:43 AM

Allo everybody...

                  Hell aye - ya could be right.... :-)

                Come on Mr RTB...own up - if its you!!!

                Regards to all.... Spot

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 12:43 PM

If ye knew the man ye'd knaah that he dizzent gan in for this sort of self promotion.

Aah dee but trust me Ron's far too shy to push himself this way. He has The Lovely Suzi te dee that forrim and that leaves him te gerron and write the songs.

From a performer's point of view his songs are gold-dust - Aall reet his delivery on CD might not get the feeling across, but see the lad LIVE! and ye cannot but be impressed by the passion. The songs stand up for themselves but, like Dylan & Cohen, ye hev te listen to the person who felt the emotion that caused the song deliver it with THAT emotion.

Aah hate te draw comparisons but there's been many singer/songwriters who have depended on others te carry their songs but still had a career as a genius. Ron doesn't hev te hev other people te sing his songs - But there's loads of us who can't get enough of his songs te sing. There's a concert of Ron's in Kent, in March. There's rock bands, Folk bands, and aall sorts of singers etc coming from aall ower the country to tek part and dee his songs. Ye cannit pigeonhole him and ye certainly cannot dismiss him coz sometimes he sings with a yank accent (God help us if Shakespeare's plays had aall been performed in his aahn Midlands accent - "Boot soft! Whart loight frum yoder weendaow brikes"

Aah'll admit it! Aah'm a mate of his as well as a fan but the 'fanship' came before the friendship - Draw what conclusions ye like from the recorded works but divvent mek your choice till ye've seen him on stage - It's worth the door fee! Aah promise!!

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Scrump
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 12:57 PM

He sounds good to me, from his mp3s, but I take the point made about his American accent. That doesn't make him bad though. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing him - sadly, looking at his gig list I recently missed him when he appeared nearby, but I was out at another gig that night anyway.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Spot
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 02:15 PM

Ok, everybody...

                  I've looked on his site and found a gig I may be able to make...will do my best...!!   I dont believe I said he was "bad" because he sings in American accent....I will say, though, that, for me, this scenario is an instant turn off....Maybe its cos I played in a band where the lead singer did it too much..... I used to cringe....!!    Each to his own on this one.

                         **************

Right...Just listened to all 9 MP3's. Very sorry... he does a good job if you like the genre - but I cant get by the accent....

                   Regards to all... Spot      :-)

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 02:52 PM

A powerful presence as a performer, an ability to handle, with delicacy and sympathy, subjects that most would shy away from, and a generosity of spirit in allowing, nay encouraging, others to perform his material makes Ron a very special person in my estimation.

One of his songs resides on my own CD, and very proud I am to have been able to record it.

I feel that mention should also be made of Ron's band, "Perfect Strangers", an amalgamation of some of the best local musical talent to be found in the county, mayhap in the country. If you can get to one of their gigs, you're in for a treat.

Incidentally, don't worry too much about Ron's accent, which is not often American, but when a man writes a seriously empathetic song about life behind US prison bars, it's gonna sound a bit odd in Cockney or Geordie, woudn't you say?

Don T.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 03:14 PM

I think the songs on his website are a bit 'out of date' - none of his newer ones are on there. I think that to see Ron in his true colours then you need to see him play live.

* Mysterious starter of thread *

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 03:43 PM

you cant help the way a man speaks or sings. He has an excellent voice and if it sounds american, then thats the way it is.

There isnt anything wrong with that anyway.

Whatever floats your boat.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 04:18 PM

Bit like Bruce Springsteen

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 04:50 PM

Now yez are taalkin'!! Springsteen should've recorded 'Rosie On A Sunday'

Divvent worry Scrump! He'll be back your way afore ower lang - He's a busy lad!!

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: growler
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 04:57 PM

'Rosie on a Sunday', Eat your heart out Springsteen

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 12:35 PM

Excellent guitarist and singer, i feel.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Nemesis
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 12:47 PM

Ron .. lovely bloke, entertaining personality ... I've seen him whupping a disparate bunch of musicians into presenting a good rousing finale-big-number.

Tunes good and hummable ... which says something ... but, personally, I find them anodyne and derivative - sort of popular MOR ....   personally, I resisted enjoinders to put him on at the club as, well, we used to try putting on slightly more cutting edge stuff than Ron (and the audience would have been somewhat puzzled) .. then again, he was always packing 'em out at a very near-neighbouring club anyway!

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 03:12 PM

Ooh - saucer of cream?

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,Slightly interested party ..girl
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 06:46 PM

For anyone that may be interested....Ron does have a MySpace address..also there are some up to date MP3's on Folk Alley..which are changed and added to on a regular basis ....and some can also be found on ezFolk...unfortunatley the ones on his official web-site cannot be altered....hope that's helpful ...happy RTB song-hunting xx

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: woodsie
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 09:23 PM

Great performer, great bloke - deserves recognition as a songwriter.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Girl Friday
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 10:02 PM

I've never listened to these mp3's. My computer doesn't have the technology. I would advise NOBODY to judge ANYBODY by recordings anyway. Then again, I don't have to. What the hell does it matter what accent he sings in (is this a new line in criticism?)it's the songs and the delivery that count. And that Truly Boring tag... not heard so much nowadays,and was never applied to his song writing talents. Can't say it applies to his stage prescence either.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Spot
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 03:27 AM

G Friday
          This "accent" thing is not meant to be a criticism of the guy - you'll have read my post that states 'These are a few observations'....Only my personal observations, too.   It's obvious that Mr TB is very popular- fair enough - I'm happy for anybody that is. Have I criticised his songwriting capabilities? Not at all.The reverse, methinks. They're just not my type of songs, thats all.
          You say 'what the hell does it matter what accent he sings in' -   It doesn't to most folk, but does to me. Incidentally I'm a fan of bluegrass music and the accent doesn't get more authentic than that - I just have a prob with what I (rightly or wrongly) class as phoney...   :-)

          I'm still looking forward to catching him live but I don't think I'll feel any different.

                Regards to all....Spot

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 04:09 AM

Spot
I think when you see him, you will change your opinion about phoney American accent.

However go with as many negative things you can think of for RTB and then get pleasantly surprised.

Always works for me if I have not seen anybody before :-)

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Scrump
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 04:16 AM

Well, "mysterious starter of thread", it seems to have worked! ;-)

I shall certainly look out for RTB now I've heard about him, and hope to catch one of his gigs.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Spot
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 07:29 AM

Hey up..    :-)

      I'm not out to negate RTB in any shape or form...

      I just don't care for"American"accents in what I feel is the   
      wrong situation...   (would be nice if you right, Villan!!)
   
      I'm still going to see him live...

      I wish I could play like wot he does...

      I can't see Vin Garbutt altering his accent for anything, Death
      Row songs or whatever (perish the thought!!)

      Try as I might , I can't think of anything else which may be
      construed as negative...

      Roll on the gig...   I wonder if he's aware of this lot goin on?

             Mr TB..Ya'd better be good!!!!      ;-)

             Regards to all.... Spot

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 12:36 PM

The ones on folk alley are actually some of his better ones so try them.

*mysterious starter of thread*

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 12:39 PM

Its just a shame theres no lyrics ;)

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 12:46 PM

Solo or with his band?
Which is better?

*mysterious starter of thread*

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,Slightly interseted etc
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 02:14 PM

Poking my head in the door again ..in reply to Guest ref lyrics ..on Ron's official web-site www.rontruemanborder.co.uk ..there are lyrics AND chord sheets ..for those who would like to play the songs ..also on ezFolk ..there are lyrics attached to the songs....I'll see what I can do about the ones on Folk Alley ....xxs

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 10:46 AM

I hesitated before writing this post because I don't feel it is my place to criticise someone who is obviously well liked and well respected by many others, but am offering the following opinion in the hope that it will be helpful rather than hurtful.

Ron played at my local club a year or two back but did not go down very well and talking to people afterwards I found that enthusiasm was very muted. But Ron had been highly recommended by another performer who is a good friend of the club, and I was also familiar with two or three of his songs through other singers and so was looking foward to the night, rather than approaching it with any negative expectations.

I had no propblem with his accent. His 'singing' accent seemed entirely natural to him and suited both his appearance, personality and material, but I found the songs rather repetitive. The first couple went down well, but by the end of the first half I was finding the tunes all too similar to be memorable and that the words had begun to feel like an overdose of cliches. Ron is very good at taking familiar phrases and setting them into songs in a natural and rhythmic way, but after a while you can easily predict which phrases are going to crop up where and, because the lines are so familiar, they sort of wash over you without the meaning behind them troubling you too much. Eventually I found I was day-dreaming rather than concentrating.

I felt that in the second half Ron knew he was not receiving the attention he had hoped for. He seems like a really nice bloke and tried his best to make contact, but without a change in material he was largely unsuccessful. The shame was, I am sure that some of the songs were really very good ... but there was just too many of them for a sitting.

What I have written sounds very unfair, but it is an honest opinion. Having reflected on the evening, my suspicion is that had Ron interspersed his own material with a few traditional or familiar songs, it would have served to give us the opportunity to listen to each of his self penned songs as a peice in its own right, rather than absorbing a whole 40 minute spot as a continuous, unfamiliar offering. personally I would have benefitted from this and I think I might have left the club with good memories of some exciting new songs, rather than with a case of musical indigestion.

I'm sure both Ron and his songs deserve wider recognition and speak only with the intention of offering my own perspective on an evening with a new-to-Ron audience. I hope he will not take offence at anything I've said.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Scrump
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 11:14 AM

Interesting comments, GUEST, and although I've not seen RTB yet, I can fully understand what you mean, not with him, but other artists I've seen.

There seem to be quite a few artists around who write all their own material, and I'm impressed with this because I don't do this (or probably, can't). This sometimes does make for a lack of variety in the songs and style of presentation, leading to potential boredom for the audience. As you say, it would be better if some artists included more covers, to provide a bit of variety for the audience. Maybe these people take pride in not covering other people's songs, or something? Or maybe they need more honest feedback from people who care about them.

Me, I'm the opposite, because I don't write songs myself (or at least, not enough to fill a set) and I pinch songs I like from a variety of sources, ranging from traditional songs to songs written very recently. The only criteria are that I like the song and feel it would suit my style, and that I can actually sing it. I'm the opposite extreme to the likes of RTB (as described by GUEST), and I would like to be able to write more of my own songs to include with the ones I've nicked from other folk. They are in the enviable position of being able to do what I would do if I was able, so why don't they?

Before I get jumped on by "Mysterious starter of thread" and other RTB fans, remember I'm not talking about him as I haven't yet seen him. But there are plenty of other singers who fit the profile given by GUEST above.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 01:59 PM

I can understand (and im sure Ron would) what the guest said. However, I think that the similarity between some of his songs is purely because he has found several styles which suit his voice and go down well. I do see what you mean. But the thing is, he has written enough songs that it doesnt matter and when he is doing a set he usually makes it so that the songs which are similar are as far away from each other as possible, or just doesnt have two similar songs in a set.

*mysterious starter of thread*

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 06:49 PM

Just a thought ....I was wondering... if Richard Thompson,Bob Dylan,Ralph McTell,Paul MaCartney or Leonard Cohen ..just to name drop a few....would do any covers at a concert...?

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Girl Friday
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 10:15 PM

In reply to GUEST ? The one who'd had booked Ron on reccomendation,(this is what is confusing Mudmatters,folks - too many "Guests").

You have stated your oppinions very clearly, and objectively. Yes, a lot of Ron's songs are reminiscent of others,yes, he does have favourite phrases, and yes, he does only perform his own songs. This is possibly due to the fact that he is not a folk singer, and doesn't claim to be. I have booked sonngwriters who intersperse a few traditional/other writer's songs, and it does work - people will always join in with stuff they know. However, RTB's songs often have a very singable chorus. Several years ago, I went to one of his folk club gigs- a very traditional club. All the floor singers were either unaccompanied, or played a traditional instrument. I thought he would go down like a lead baloon. Not so, by song number 2, he had them in the palm of his hand! If you're asked to book him again- go for it. You may be surprised at how many of your members remember the songs.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 03 Feb 07 - 06:04 PM

Richard Thompson has aalwez performed 'other people's songs' and still does - Leonard Cohen & Dylan hev an' aall, but not often

Aah imagine Ron used te sing other people's songs but he's such a prolific writer that, aah suppose, he cannit fit them in noo.

Aah love the guy to bits but there are lots of his songs that divvent turn uz on. But there are mair that do!

Ye cannit please aall of the people aall of the time but give the lad a hearing! Remember Horses for courses!!

AND..... aah find mesel' daydreamin' on many occasions - Folk Clubs, Rock Concerts, when Mrs P is taalin' tiv uz - it's me age not because aah'm bored (apart from when Mrs P... well ye knaah) and aa'hve nivvor concentrated on a whole set by someone (Even Richard T) withoot 'wanderin' off'

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 02:13 PM

I had ron at my club once- he was great! I reccommend him to anyone.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Scrump
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 03:12 PM

I wish you GUESTs would number yourselves (if you can't be bothered to give a handle), e.g. GUEST 1, GUEST 2 or whatever. It makes it difficult for the rest of us to understand the discussion.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 05:12 PM

There's a pub (does rock & blues mainly) doon here in Southampton that booked Ron once (a fortneet ago) and were that impressed that they are now running a 'once a month' folk(ish) night and have booked Ron for the first FOUR months as guest

He cannit be aall bad then!!

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 02:10 PM

Isnt that a long way for him every month

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Scrump
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 02:25 PM

No, don't be daft GUEST, he's been booked for a 4-month long set. I expect he gets 20-minute breaks every month or so.

:-D

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: synbyn
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 12:20 PM

and Ron's at Twitton tomorrow (Tuesday), snow permitting- haven't seen his act for a while so will try to get there. Two of his songs are on the new Galliard CD too... and a grand job Dave & Gay make of them.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: synbyn
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 12:22 PM

I mean Thursday of course- the 8th Feb- must engage brain before typing...

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Girl Friday
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 08:25 PM

He is also on at Croydon on Monday,12th, so will be going there instead.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,( of 10.46am)
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:09 AM

Thanks for responding to my original post. As I tried to express - it feels very uncomfortable to make criticisms when you know that a) - a lot of other people are great fans and b) you feel that basically the guy was a nice bloke who just slightly missed the mark at your club. Had Ron been less experienced I would have held off altogether on the grounds that I might have unnerved him, but I thinks he's been around for long enough and has enough confidence in his own ability and acceptability to be able to take a few helpfully intented comments without suffering too much!

I take the point that he is not, and does not set out to be, a traditional 'folk singer', but on this occasion he had obviously canvassed a booking at a club which does favour traditional music (although not exclusively). The club in question is consistently cited as a favourite venue by many professional performers, so I don't think it was an unduly hostile place to play. My only intention in posting was to offer a suggestion for Ron to ponder - namely that should he find himself in a similar situation again (and I'm sure that he was aware on this night that he wasn't going down too well) it might be useful to have just one or two other types of song to pop into the set. If he largely enjoys playing folk clubs then one or two traditional songs from his own neck of the woods would go down a treat if he needed a brief change of direction. And even a died-in-the-wool traddy audience would be paying attention wondering when the next 'surprise' might come in the set.

It's only an idea. I'm not suggesting he should sell out, or even adapt his material for his audience. Only that it MIGHT be a useful option to have on a few occasions.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Scrump
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 05:05 AM

Those comments seem very reasoned and fair, GUEST. I hope RTB doesn't take any kind of offence, I'm sure I wouldn't.

I have a varied repertoire myself and I tend to ring the changes, including 'serious' and 'comic' songs, 'traditional' and 'contemporary' material, as I find most people seem to like a bit of variety in a set. But I try to judge the mood of the audience, and sometimes even ask them if they want a funny song, a chorus song or whatever.

Some artists (I'm not saying RTB is one of them, having never seen him) will just sing their own material, and never include any chorus songs, which in some venues can be boring for the audience, however good the songs are. In some clubs, people like to sing, so I try to give them a chance to do that. In other clubs, it's not so important, and the audience would rather listen than sing. It's not always easy to get the balance right, but GUEST's advice to have a few different types of songs handy is sound, IMO.

As for RTB I hope to get to see him one day before too long and I'll look out for him.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: synbyn
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 12:40 PM

Almost got to see him! Although the snow cancelled Twitton, those of us that got there had a bit of a session, so the journey wasn't wasted. Another day........

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,caribou
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 09:13 PM

I think that he does too many chorus songs and this can be quite intimadating to some of the audience. Not everyone wants to shout out "My hands were covered in blood" at the end of each verse. He also complains "I can't hear you!" and looks you in the eye and scowls if you are not singing. Very un-nerving for wimps like me. Saying this he does write some good songs.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Girl Friday
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 09:20 PM

synbyn . Glad you enjoyed Twitton despite everything. It's a great little club- hope thelocals were respectful. They usually leave when the singing starts. if you can get to Croydon this coming Monday, ron has a gig there.
Guest of 10.46 am. Wish you had a name. and Scrump. Hello.I strongly suspect that RTB does read this thread, and am certain that he'll not be offende by any comments and suggestions offered on it. when you do get to see Ron in action, you will see that he thrives on audience participation, and encourages everyone to join in. He will often get performers from the floor to accompany him if he feels they will add something to a song. He will give the audience a choice, of mood, funny, serious, bluesy, country,chorus, sing-along, etc. He can read an audience, especially if he knows some of them to speak to.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,Cragrat
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 04:58 AM

A folk fan complaining about violence in a song (and implied violence at that, since the protagonist is dreaming). The world has gone mad!

Covered In Blood is a great song.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 06:49 AM

I think its up to the person booking a performer to indicate the style of the venue and then leave the performer to decide what they are going to do.

Personally, I think if somebody has a piece of advice for a performer and feel strongly enough about it, they should have the guts to get in touch with them personally by e-mail etc and not put it on a forum such as this.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Girl Friday
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 09:07 AM

Well said Villan, though I wouldn't put Ron's Email address into the public domain. Let's see what Slightly Interested.... does.
Caribou (Leopards like them for lunch!) -should choose another name if I was you. We agree, Len, and I about the scowling thing, but there are a lot of performers who get upset if you don't sing along. There again, chorus singing is a great part of the folk club ethos.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,Slightly interested...pg
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 09:50 AM

...never mind 'covered in blood'...I can remember on one occasion...an audience at a gig ...singing along quite merrily to ....'I'm seriously suicidal' ...which brought a bit of an ironical smile to my face....as for Ron's e-mail ad..it's readily available on his web-site...if anyone should wish to make contact.....but some people appear to prefer this public forum..and we are living in a country where,ostesibly,freedom of speech is permitted ..so...hey! ho!...

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Scrump
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 01:25 PM

Personally, I think if somebody has a piece of advice for a performer and feel strongly enough about it, they should have the guts to get in touch with them personally by e-mail etc and not put it on a forum such as this.

What I said was general and not aimed at RTB - as I said, I haven't seen him so I wouldn't presume to criticise him. I was responding to previous comments.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,Girl Friday without cookie
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 05:15 PM

"What I said was general and not aimed at RTB - as I said, I haven't seen him so I wouldn't presume to criticise him. I was responding to previous comments. "
I believe you Scrump. Put your name down on Ron's mailing list, and you'll be kept fully informed as to when he's down your way.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,caribou
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 08:09 PM

I don't say that i don't like violent songs just that I don't like being expected to SING along all bloody night! My hands were covered in blood was the first that came to mind.

I have seen rtb a few times and like his stuff but not the sing-a-long-max style of delivery.

Anyway Coke wasn't in cans in the 1950/60s it was bottles

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: synbyn
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 10:40 AM

Thanks girl friday- I'm MCing Paulette Sheard & Mike Ball at the Beacon Club in Tunbridge Wells on Monday, but hope RTB's gig goes well. Most of the locals stayed at Twitton! but of course we were very informal & didn't need a performers' area set out- I can understand it if the locals are in the L of the bar. Between the Wealden Ramblers, Fiddlefit and the local farrier we had a good time!

Caribou- you're entitled to like what you like, of course, and no-one can force you to sing if you don't feel like it. However, I think it's important for any performer to engage the audience, and chorus singing does that for many people. Some of the best nights I've been to have left me feeling the kind of uplift that I guess a religious person might feel from singing in church- the harmonies of experienced singers, the sense of an evening being more than the output of one performer. Seeing as I tend to give out Singalongabob sheets to assist when I do a solo gig, I've laid out my store! I do agree that it can become obtrusive if a singer is obviously trying to get the audience to sing his/her slogans (not RTB),I think that there is some kind of responsibility to treat an audience as thinking adults and to entertain rather than preach. So if you're entertained by listening, all well and good- hope to see you sometime

Bob K

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,Girl Friday without cookie
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 10:53 AM

Ah, Bob, so you're synbyn. Should have worked that one out sooner. We plan(TDL that is) to descend on the Beacon next Monday, for Mike Silver. Hope to see you then.
Sue

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: synbyn
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 01:16 PM

okeydokey!

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,DK
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 09:02 PM

Probably the greatest songwriter since Dylan.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,of 10.46
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 04:14 AM

I'll try an answer the criticisms that might have been meant for me!

1. I am choosing to be anonymous on this occasion because if I identify myself, and therefore the club I go to, I could be seen to be speaking for other people, and I don't feel I have that right. On other threads I have posted using my real name. Just trying to be considerate. Maybe it's misplaced caution.

2. I would have no problem speaking to Ron himself. It wouldn't take 'guts' - just more interest than I actually have. I would certainly give him a 'second chance' if he appears local to me again, and if I still feel the same, then I will, if there is a suitable opportunity, say the same things directly to him. If I have a far more enjoyable experience, I'll tell him that too!

3. The thread began by canvassing opinions of Ron, not by asking for people to contact him directly. As I have seen him and do have an opinion I felt it was legitimate for me to post. The suggestion I offered was just my ham fisted way of tempering what might otherwise be construed as unconstructive criticism. And perhaps offered to see whether other people shared that thought, as per the spirit of the thread.

Fun here, isn't it!

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Doktor Doktor
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 07:01 AM

He's Pretty Fekkin Good.

.. and on at StortFolk on Thursday (www.stortfolk.co.uk)

plug plug plug

.. entirely acoustic - not just unplugged ...

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,redhorse at work
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 08:24 AM

Guest 10:46's comment "The first couple went down well, but by the end of the first half I was finding the tunes all too similar to be memorable......." is actually applicable to about 80% of all singer-songwriters who do the rounds of the folk clubs. The good ones are those who can vary pace, style and content, and are all too rare.

nick

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 08:50 AM

Yes, it seems some singer-songwriters make it a point of pride (or arrogance, maybe?) to only include their own material. If some of them would include a few well-chosen covers, maybe their own stuff might go down better.

(I hasten to add, this is not aimed at RTB, as I haven't seen him, it's just a general comment about 'singer/songwriters')

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Girl Friday
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 08:20 PM

I think, though can't be sure, that Ron is taking much of this proffered advice/ comment on board, though, I can't see him performing covers unless accompanying someone else. We at Friday Folk are only too happy to listen to his songs when, as tonight, he has a free Friday.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Rasener
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 03:03 AM

Well I didn't find any fault with what he did at Market Rasen Folk Club.

Howvever I think Scrump is quite correct about some performers who only do their own songs, when they are clearly weak songs and are boring.

Sometimes people get this bee in their bonnet, that they are a songwriter and continually write songs that are not good enough and expect other people to enthuse.

Maybe instead of using RTB as an example publicly (which I don't agree with), there should be a new thread "What makes somebody a good songwriter"

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 08:06 AM

In response to Scrump's fair comment about s/s doing exclusively their own material: I cannot speak for Ron, but for myself, the reason is actually simple: I don't think I am good enough to cover other people's songs on my own, and I won't do it unless I feel I can impart something of myself as a performer, add something. Hence, I very rarely do covers in my sets. I was a "reluctant performer" from the start, doing it just to get (my) songs out and about, to give them a chance to be aired and survive or not according to their worth.

So - not "pride" or "arrogance", but feeling of inadequacy. And before people flock to tell me otherwise (thank you but don't), remember - this is how I see myself, and I am happy with that. For me in this case it's the songs that are important, not the singer.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 02:41 PM

I think he should ask when he is playing some of his more 'offensive' songs whether there is anyone in the audience he might offend. I heard at croydon he stopped in the middle of one!

(e.g sleaze, snake eyes etc.)

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Girl Friday
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 04:01 PM

"What makes someone a good songwriter?" Good idea for a thread. Will look and see if anyone's beaten me to it first.

I agree, this thread should end now.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 04:04 PM

Its there Girl Friday LOL

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Girl Friday
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 04:23 PM

Thanks Villan. Found it, read it, enjoyed it. LOL

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Scrump
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 08:03 AM

George, I just want to make it 100% clear I was definitely not thinking of you when I made my earlier comment about singer/songwriters singing their own material - far from it! :-)

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,Suzi Z
Date: 20 Mar 09 - 04:10 AM

I've resurrected this thread for those who may be interested and perhaps they can form their own opinion on a live performance, if they've not seen him before.
Ron's appearing at The Rainham Folk Club
Friday 20th March(tonight)great little club
The Oast House Granary Close, Rainham ME8 7SG
Saturday 21st March The White Hart 18,High Street, Saxmunden IP17 1DD
Blue Skies xx Suzi

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: melodeonboy
Date: 20 Mar 09 - 05:51 AM

And The Good Intent, Rochester (ME1 1YL) on Tuesday 14th. April!

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,Suzi Z
Date: 20 Mar 09 - 11:33 AM

...and a few more in-between!!!

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: breezy
Date: 20 Mar 09 - 11:37 AM

He's good, laid back, attitude, no frills, proper songs.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Suzi Z
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 08:13 AM

On at The Good Intent Concert Night in Rochester tonight with Sic Transit as support
..and at The Famous Willows Folk Club in Arundel tomorrow 15th April
http://www.willowsfolkclub.org/

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Rockhen
Date: 14 Apr 09 - 10:11 AM

I would definitely go and hear Ron again if I could make it to a localish gig. I heard him at Gainsborough Folk Festival a few months back and really enjoyed his live set.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,Suzi Z
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 09:36 AM

Thanks Rockhen..hopefully we'll make it back up to you again in the not too distant future
Next couple of gigs for anyone who may want to go along
Tonight 25th April at The Brasenose Arms in Cropredy at 9pm
Brasenose Arms
and tomorrow 26th at The Neptune Hall in Broadstairs
Neptune Hall

Hope some ofyou may be able to make it ..that's if you're not running in the Marathon !!
Blue Skies
Suzi

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,Suzi Z
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 09:37 AM

sorry ..forgot to say Neptune Hall gig is at 5pm..

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,Suzi Z
Date: 28 May 09 - 05:16 AM

Ron has a few gigs coming up during the next week but this is mainly to mention his appearance as guest at The Bursledon and Netley Folk Club this Sunday 31st May.Great club..so hope some of you can make it there
http://www.woolnetfolk.co.uk/
Blue Slies
Suzi

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,Suzi Z
Date: 30 May 09 - 02:11 PM

Sorry that's supposed to be Woolston and Bursledon Folk Club ..but the link's the same xx

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,Geeordie-Peorgie (Sans Cookie)
Date: 31 May 09 - 02:03 PM

It's ganna be a great night

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,G-P Sans cookie (again!)
Date: 31 May 09 - 07:11 PM

Aye! It wqs an' aall!

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 03:33 AM

So how come there are so many anonymouse guests on this thread then?

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 04:12 AM

PS We heard RTB at Faldingworth live and enjoyed.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,Suzi Z
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 03:21 AM

Great to see you down at Bursledon George ..xx

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 04:20 PM

Aye Suzi, pet!! Aah'll try to stay sober next time!

The lad wez on great form though!!

Lovely to see you an' aall - Alwez iz!

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 02 Jun 09 - 04:22 PM

Aah've nevor done 'the hundred' before

100 not oot!!

Gerrup ye buggah!

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: GUEST,Paul Davies
Date: 13 Sep 20 - 05:37 PM

Ron is one of the folk circuit's true heroes. He writes prolifically and not all of the songs work BUT when they do work they are really strong so I would argue that does make him one of the best and most respected singer songwriters in the business. Many people can go a lifetime and not produce one gem of a song but Ron has touches of pure genius and if you take time to go mining through his albums there are many, many gems to be found.

Subject: RE: Ron Trueman Border
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 08 Apr 21 - 03:22 PM

For them as dissent knaah.......

Ron left this Earth in early August 2020, unexpectedly.

His memory lives on in the thousands of songs he left and the millions of experiences he gave us!

I, for one and my wife & daughters loved him to bits and will continue to sing ‘RonSongs’ as long as there is breath in us!

GNU RT-B!