Create your own gigs.

Subject: Create your own gigs.
From: Jim Lad
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 04:09 AM

I read a post the other day where the writer stated that good paying folk gigs can be pretty scarce. I'd be interested in hearing suggestions on how young folks (like me) can go about creating worthwhile gigs with low/no overheads. Maybe some past experiences that you have tried yourselves.

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: avrosimones
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 04:43 AM

For my birthday earlier this year (25th), I put on a gig in my flat. After playing around London for the past year or so, I was finding it difficult to find venues that were appreciative of good folk music. I invited two other 'artists' down, and probably no more than 25 friends. We set up the living room, so that people played instruments on the sofa and had the audience facing them.
It went down really well – people played around 20 mins or so each… a lot of the folks invited had previously said that they weren't into folk music, and they seemed converted.

I think this is a great way to play small gigs, no great money (or time) spent - there was no amplification. I'm looking to organise something else for the summer.

Also, hello to everyone here. I've been lurking for years, but have only now signed up!

-David

Ps. I've got some pictures of the event on my myspace page... Let me know if you want the address.

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: skipy
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 04:47 AM

It's already running:-
"The Genetic Interest Group (GIG) is a national alliance of patient organisations with a membership of over 130 charities which support children, families and individuals affected by genetic disorders".
Skipy

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: Folkie101
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 08:09 AM

Skipy,

Please tell us more how the GIG can help folk artist get gigs.

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: skipy
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 08:21 AM

It can't, but it has given them a little publicity & who knows one of our own out there may need their help.
Skipy

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: Scrump
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 08:42 AM

I had assumed Jim Lad was looking for paid gigs, as opposed to David's idea of running a 'gig' at home. Jim Lad - can you clarify?

Obviously, anybody could run a gig at home, which would be to all intents and purposes a private party (subject to the neighbours' co-operation of course!), as long as no money changes hands. I'm not sure what the laws are about charging for 'gigs' in your home are - maybe someone could clarify this too?

(Yes, David, why not post your myspace page so we can take a gander at the pics!)

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: avrosimones
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 09:42 AM

You're right, I mis-read the part about payment. I did give the folks some homemade soup and bottles of their favourite drink though!!

As far as payment is concerned, I once read a piece about putting on gigs at home, which said that you can get around certain licensing implications by selling raffle tickets, where the money goes to the performers. If the gig was friends only (as mine was), I would feel a bit strange asking them for money – although a whip-around might work out okay…

As for paid gigs, in my experience, promoters only pay you if you bring along more than 10 people, or something along those lines.

-David

Ps. Here's my page if anyone is interested; my myspace page – the pictures are listed under 'House Concert/Birthday Party'.

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: Nick
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 10:03 AM

Weirdly enough I have found the easiest way is to walk into a pub and ask - even with all the talk of how music has been destroyed in this country by the Act etc

I must admit until I tried it I presumed it was the case that pubs didn't want music.

We have played folk in a pub for two years + (and put on paid for gigs there though mostly of the raffle and bucket variety) and that came about because I went and asked the landlord.

More recently I have been playing some music with friends and my son in a couple of bands and I am stunned how easy it is to get gigs - not that we will get rich but we get paid odds and sods for them and it at least gets you known and hopefully wanted!

I went into a pub pre-Xmas and while chatting asked if they had thought of live music. They sort of had but didn't know how to do it. So we got a gig there which we got paid a bit for and a load of free drinks. That led to a birthday party that we are playing this Saturday and that may lead somewhere or not.

A friend of ours pointed to a pub that had a board out asking for musicians and we got offered a gig there.

Last Saturday when playing at a thing at my son's school I went for a beer and in conversation with the landlord of the pub round the corner established that he would be interested in us doing a gig.

I would think there are quite a lot of people who would appreciate the trade and it opens up something that they can benefit from - even food pubs are not busy every night with everyone trying to leap onto the feeding bandwagon.

It may not work everywhere but it seems to be working round our way.

My aim was to play live in a band 12 times this year and I should have achieved that goal by March.

Finding gigs for solo/duo playing would I think - if anything - be easier as a full blown band with drums is harder to fit in!

You might also try restaurants and see if they would like some backing music - they also tend to pay.

Good luck

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: wysiwyg
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 10:20 AM

YMMV, but many small-to-medium-sized churches would be glad to serve as a venue to host a folk gig as an opportunity to bring neighborhood people into their building and demystify their space in the public's perception. Before this is pooh-poohed, keep in mind I'm a pastor's wife who has produced small, well-received events at our parish and attended many others' in that setting.

I could say more if asked. There are things to understand about how to work well with churches to to this, but I'm not going to waste my time typing it and giving a free consult if it isn't wanted.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: Scrump
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 10:38 AM

Yes, Nick's comments are good, but it would be worth you having a demo CD so they (your prospective bookers) can hear the sort of stuff you do (find out first what they like/expect and tailor your demo to suit! ;-)) - a CD-R burnt from your PC would do, so you don't need a big outlay for this (20p or less for a blank CD-R!) I know professionals might say a proper demo CD is better, but if you're just asking around pubs that's probably sufficient (until you move up a gear!)

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: Jim Lad
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 10:49 AM

Scrump: I quoted some examples on an other thread but I'll offer a few more here.
Many city parks have band-shells. I have asked around to find who is responsible for them and gained permission to put on my own shows. There is often power, lights and seating. Worked properly these can be quite lucrative venues.
Many shopping malls have stages (I carried my own) and you may find them surprisingly co-operative in allowing you to play.
These are simple examples but not run of the mill venues.
So, I'm interested in ideas other than Pubs etc.. Just wondering what some of you may have tried and had success with.

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: Jim Lad
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 11:59 AM

Lounges on trains, ferries, at terminals and so on. Just looking for ideas that others may use successfully. House Concerts are a perfect example of someone thinking outside the box and have now become a mainstay on the folk circuit.

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: Jim Lad
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 12:09 PM

skipy: If you go back far enough there's a Shameless Promotion thread where you can give your charity a boost.

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs
From: GUEST,Jacey
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 12:47 PM

Hi,

I'm not a regular Mudcat poster but just dropped in to add something to the English Agents thread and spotted this.

House concerts are a relatively unknown and misunderstood phenomena in the UK and householders may be especially wary with the new licensing laws. Does it make your house into a venue if you have a musician performing to friends? Does it make your house a place of business? Do you need public liability insurance?

However, for the Brits on this thread, the way most of our North Ameican folkie friends get round the technicalities is to invite friends to come to a musical soiree in their home. There is no entry fee, however it's understood by all concerned that people make a donation to the 'pot' and all of that donation goes to the performer. It's even understood that there's a minimum donation value. The performer also gets a meal and a place to stay - invaluable if you're on the road and a long way from home.

House concerts can provide a performer with a good place to play to a listening audience.

You can also create your own gigs in non pub venues. Someone mentioned churches, which can be great if the church community gets behind the gig and turns out en masse, and there are also village halls. You do need to coordinate with someone locally, however, if it's not in your own area, as you need someone who can promote it for you to the local community.

Some small theatres and arts centres are happy to talk to performers about door splits without a minimum guaranteed fee. In other words you get paid a percentage (usually 70% after VAT) of what they take at the box office. My advice is to only try this once you've started to build up your own audience who will follow you to an arts centre venue. if you do it and get a very small audience you've lost any chance of ever playing there again.

Cheers

Jacey
www.jacey-bedford.com and/or www.artisan-harmony.com

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: GUEST,Val
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 01:57 PM

Another note re: House Concerts in the US

Here in the San Francisco area, there are relatively frequent House Concerts. Some of these ARE commercial endeavors, in as much as there is a set fee for attendance.

I haven't been involved in RUNNING one, only attended a couple, but my (possibly flawed) understanding is that the homeowner is effectively "donating" use of her space, and all the collected proceeds go to the performer.

A local music club occasionally books some relatively notable talent when they are coming around on tour - this is made easier because the club guarantees a certain minimum take for the performers. If ticket sales exceed the minimum, then the performer gets more, but they know they'll get AT LEAST that minimum. The bad part of that is if only a few people show up for the concert, the club ends up making up the difference.

I'm afraid I can't give details on the legal/contractual details involved. Since the US (and California in particular) is a highly litigious culture, I'm sure there are some formalities that must be observed.

Perhaps a bit of research into the appropriate laws in your area could lead to finding a legal way for someone to host a for-pay concert in a private residence. Possibly contacting nearby organizations devoted to folk or traditional music could save a lot of time and hassles - they may have already done the research and could give you a rundown on what is necessary.

Good luck!

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: Mooh
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 02:34 PM

House concerts are relatively common in Canada, at least in Ontario and I suspect the east coast. I like them as performer and audience.

Self-promotion works. Rent the hall, do the publicity, get volunteers for the door, and perform for the gate or portion thereof. Have done it several times. They sometimes generate enough interest to give you some street cred and employment opportunities elsewhere.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: Mooh
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 02:40 PM

Or, as with one band I've played with, start a folk festival and play at the first dozen or so.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: Jim Lad
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 06:50 PM

Any bands tried prommoting their own dances?

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: jonm
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 03:19 AM

Promoting your own dances? I now work on the 40/30 rule:

Of 100% of people you consult when setting it up, 40% will still say they are coming when the posters have been done and 30% will actually turn up.

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: Simon G
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 04:16 AM

The vital element of a gig is an audience. You need to ask yourself if you can generate this on your own, friends, contacts, family, supporters, etc. If you can't then you need to hook into something that can (and feed your embryonic audience into theirs). In Wigan, England there is a thriving young acoustic scene. I assume this to be the case elsewhere, but maybe not. In Wigan, Imploding Acoustic Inevitable (yes they really are as late 60s/early 70s as they sound) hold a gig once a month and at least one other venue does as well. The important thing is they have a loyal audience of late teens and 20s who are keen to listen to acoustic music.

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: Alec
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 04:50 AM

The Bracken Rigg band's home site (available through Mudcat's links page) Has an excellent article entitled "How to organise a barn dance without booking a disco"
Lot of good advice from guy's with a lot of experience of promoting their own dances, a lot of which would be transferable to more straightforward gigging.

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: Alec
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 08:13 AM

Interview with Pete Seeger in today's Guardian.
Quote (Seeger)"He'd (Woody Guthrie)say ""Put the banjo on your back, go into a bar, buy a nickel beer & drink it as slow as you can.Sooner or later someone will say ""Kid, can you play that thing?""
Don't be too eager, just say "Maybe, a little." Keep on sipping beer.
Sooner or later someone will say "Kid I've got a quarter for you if you play us a tune.Then you play your best song.""
I suspect that would still work today. ;-)

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: Scrump
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 09:47 AM

It depends on what sort of music you play, and how versatile you are, but you could consider tying a gig in with some event, e.g. last week we did two Burns night gigs. But obviously, you need to play the right type of music for the occasion (Scottish in that example).

What about Valentine's day? Plenty of love songs. Or Halloween, etc. (songs about witches, Old Pendle, etc.) and of course Christmas. Must be plenty more though.

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: Willie-O
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 11:06 AM

Do-it-yourself venues are easy to find; small community halls are everywhere in rural areas. What makes it doable is if you can effectively publicize yourself, and the venue must be in easy reach of the folks who like your music.

I ran such a concert series for years; these days interested performers are invited to DIY. Takes some research, but basically if a place has been a good venue in the past (acoustics, location, and reasonably comfortable), if you do your publicity right (press releases, posters, and the all-important e-mail list to your known fans/friends), you can benefit from that image whether you're hired by a group or working for yourself.

W-O

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 11:22 AM

Promoting your own dances?

Yes, there is an active and growing multigenerational contradance community in or area that pulls dancers via e-mail list and word of mouth. It's viable enough that a few known callers have emerged here (coming from surrounding areas) who also help pull the folks in via THEIR email lists and word of mouth. What has made it work is that the spouse of one band member does all the emailing and inviting, and is a great, relaxed hostess who can put together the right dates, callers, and free locations. She's a dancer herself and knows the good floors from the ones that will serve, but leave folks hurting afterwards. The money is done VERY informally, with dancers droppoing a donation in a basket and bringing a snack or beverage to share for the communal snack table. The caller and band split the bucks. The entry cost is kept as low as can cover the particular caller's fee. This seems to be keeping some people working, to fill in between "larger" opportunities.

I was at one several years ago that had about a 70-80 dancers milling around or sitting. The caller's fee is guaranteed, and the band usually makes out pretty well, too, though they would play just for fun anyway. A sound system was furnished by another band's member and sound man, I think as a professional courtesy-- these people all play in each other's bands or open for each other at area gigs and festivals, and where you find one you will usually find the others so why not tote the small PA? I guess sometimes callers supply their own PA and let the band go acoustic.

As far as band-- that one has pretty much got it sewed up as far as folkie dance; they have other regular gigs all year as well, with and without dancing. They have good, available regular members as well as additional side players who can sit in happily when needed. There's an overlap between the musicians, the dancers, and both the local homeschooling and university people.

There is also a country/square dance band active here in several venues, and doing well. Separate group of dancers, I believe. There are weekly dances at a local firehall and at a local church, I believe, plus another group at the county fairgrounds meeting hall.

For awhile there also was an annual swing dance with live big band (local retired jazz and big band musicians) with good local vocalists and good sound; it was well attended and raised a lot of bucks. Again, separate group of people.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: Jim Lad
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 11:58 AM

My wife has played with The Odd Hack Band for a number of years. They used to organize their own contra dances and so on. Others have taken over that part in recent years so now they just show up and play. (with my PA)
So the point is... There are many ways to create your own gigs and there are many, many up and coming players who could benefit from your experiences.
Thanx
Jim

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 12:22 PM

"...but many small-to-medium-sized churches would be glad to serve as a venue to host a folk gig as an opportunity to bring neighborhood people into their building and demystify their space in the public's perception..." Susan

That's where we hold our monthly folkie music night, Susan. The church holds only about 120 but the acoustics are great. We are entirely non-electric.

A year ago we started in an undercroft and when we quickly outgrew its capacities I resisted moving upstairs to the church, mostly because I thought a good many people would not attend *because* it was in a church. For that matter, it bothered me. I hadn't been inside a church building for years.

But we did it and it worked great. I have little doubt that some people stay away because of the venue but we draw 50-60 people who each pay $5.00 at the door.

Subject: RE: Create your own gigs.
From: Cluin
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 12:27 PM

Run your own gig at home and charge the guests for attendance.

It's called a house concert.

Export the process to other people's houses around the country and your on the house concert circuit. Very popular in folk music circles.