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BS: Getting out of teaching

GUEST,Desperate Dan 31 Jan 07 - 04:40 PM
jeffp 31 Jan 07 - 04:47 PM
Liz the Squeak 31 Jan 07 - 04:50 PM
Jean(eanjay) 31 Jan 07 - 04:51 PM
MaineDog 31 Jan 07 - 04:56 PM
Bee 31 Jan 07 - 05:36 PM
Cats 31 Jan 07 - 05:53 PM
GUEST 31 Jan 07 - 05:54 PM
skipy 31 Jan 07 - 05:58 PM
GUEST 31 Jan 07 - 06:07 PM
Bill D 31 Jan 07 - 06:38 PM
Folkiedave 31 Jan 07 - 06:38 PM
Amos 31 Jan 07 - 07:45 PM
dianavan 31 Jan 07 - 08:21 PM
Ebbie 31 Jan 07 - 08:49 PM
TRUBRIT 31 Jan 07 - 09:00 PM
mack/misophist 31 Jan 07 - 10:08 PM
GUEST,~00~ 31 Jan 07 - 11:12 PM
GUEST,Michael from Manitoba 31 Jan 07 - 11:26 PM
Greg B 01 Feb 07 - 12:31 AM
Anne Lister 01 Feb 07 - 02:01 AM
GUEST,Don LAst 01 Feb 07 - 02:07 AM
Big Al Whittle 01 Feb 07 - 06:27 AM
jonm 01 Feb 07 - 07:27 AM
Big Al Whittle 01 Feb 07 - 11:39 AM
GUEST,Desperate Dan 01 Feb 07 - 01:59 PM
GUEST,LilyFestre 01 Feb 07 - 02:29 PM
GUEST,Screwtape 01 Feb 07 - 06:53 PM
dianavan 01 Feb 07 - 07:32 PM
moongoddess 01 Feb 07 - 10:09 PM
Big Phil 01 Feb 07 - 10:35 PM
mg 01 Feb 07 - 11:56 PM
GUEST,Desperate Dan 02 Feb 07 - 12:43 PM
GUEST,well wisher 02 Feb 07 - 01:18 PM
wysiwyg 02 Feb 07 - 02:11 PM
Bernard 02 Feb 07 - 02:47 PM
GUEST,Wormwort 02 Feb 07 - 07:45 PM
GUEST,Mr Sunshine 03 Feb 07 - 06:00 PM
GUEST,yvonneyerunderpants 03 Feb 07 - 06:31 PM
dianavan 03 Feb 07 - 08:00 PM
GUEST,Mr Sunshine 03 Feb 07 - 10:38 PM
GUEST,Arnie 04 Feb 07 - 12:38 AM
GUEST,yvonneyerunderpants 04 Feb 07 - 06:36 AM
maeve 04 Feb 07 - 07:16 AM
GUEST,yvonneyerunderpants 04 Feb 07 - 07:50 AM
GUEST,Mr Sunshine 04 Feb 07 - 08:46 AM
GUEST,Miss 04 Feb 07 - 12:19 PM
Sooz 04 Feb 07 - 12:57 PM
GUEST,Miss 04 Feb 07 - 01:55 PM
MaineDog 04 Feb 07 - 02:20 PM
Strollin' Johnny 04 Feb 07 - 02:24 PM
Big Al Whittle 04 Feb 07 - 02:27 PM
Cruiser 04 Feb 07 - 05:38 PM
Jean(eanjay) 04 Feb 07 - 05:42 PM
dianavan 05 Feb 07 - 12:11 PM
Strollin' Johnny 05 Feb 07 - 12:14 PM
GUEST,DODDs Teacher 06 Feb 07 - 08:08 AM
Geoff the Duck 06 Feb 07 - 08:40 AM
Schantieman 08 Feb 07 - 03:07 PM
SharonA 08 Feb 07 - 04:22 PM
GUEST,pattyClink 09 Feb 07 - 11:13 AM
GUEST 16 Nov 07 - 01:08 PM
Bill D 16 Nov 07 - 01:35 PM
GUEST 16 Nov 07 - 04:09 PM
Helen 16 Nov 07 - 05:04 PM
Big Al Whittle 16 Nov 07 - 05:06 PM
Diva 17 Nov 07 - 07:41 AM
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Jeanie 17 Nov 07 - 08:06 AM
Bobert 17 Nov 07 - 08:26 AM
GUEST,Bruce Michael Baillie 17 Nov 07 - 05:14 PM
Helen 17 Nov 07 - 06:08 PM
Big Al Whittle 17 Nov 07 - 06:55 PM
Peace 17 Nov 07 - 07:00 PM
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Bobert 17 Nov 07 - 07:45 PM
GUEST,Yet another GUEST 17 Nov 07 - 08:28 PM
paula t 18 Nov 07 - 09:03 AM
Bobert 18 Nov 07 - 10:48 AM
Penny S. 18 Nov 07 - 12:26 PM
Riginslinger 19 Nov 07 - 08:01 AM
Bobert 19 Nov 07 - 09:09 AM
Riginslinger 19 Nov 07 - 11:59 PM
GUEST,dianavan 20 Nov 07 - 02:17 AM
JeZeBeL 20 Nov 07 - 04:27 AM
Fibula Mattock 20 Nov 07 - 04:45 AM
JeZeBeL 20 Nov 07 - 06:16 AM
GUEST,Fibula at work 20 Nov 07 - 06:19 AM
Catherine Jayne 20 Nov 07 - 08:25 AM
Big Al Whittle 20 Nov 07 - 11:53 AM
Donuel 20 Nov 07 - 11:55 AM
Riginslinger 20 Nov 07 - 01:38 PM
GUEST,Paula t 20 Nov 07 - 04:30 PM
JeZeBeL 21 Nov 07 - 03:55 AM
Big Al Whittle 21 Nov 07 - 05:05 AM
GUEST,Paula t 21 Nov 07 - 08:43 AM
GUEST,dianavan 22 Nov 07 - 12:18 AM
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Peace 22 Nov 07 - 06:49 PM
GUEST,Lost Hope 08 Apr 08 - 02:57 AM
Bryn Pugh 08 Apr 08 - 06:02 AM
Schantieman 08 Apr 08 - 06:51 AM
Cats 08 Apr 08 - 02:39 PM
GUEST,dianavan 08 Apr 08 - 03:02 PM
SINSULL 08 Apr 08 - 03:31 PM
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John on the Sunset Coast 08 Apr 08 - 03:53 PM
GUEST,diana 08 Apr 08 - 10:04 PM
Rowan 09 Apr 08 - 03:08 AM
Thompson 09 Apr 08 - 03:30 AM
Jeanie 09 Apr 08 - 04:05 AM
GUEST,A regular. 09 Apr 08 - 01:38 PM
wysiwyg 09 Apr 08 - 01:40 PM
bet 09 Apr 08 - 03:31 PM
ard mhacha 09 Apr 08 - 05:08 PM
Schantieman 10 Apr 08 - 07:34 AM
Lowden Jameswright 10 Apr 08 - 12:07 PM
Acorn4 10 Apr 08 - 01:20 PM
GUEST,A regular 10 Apr 08 - 01:22 PM
wysiwyg 10 Apr 08 - 04:11 PM
Acorn4 10 Apr 08 - 06:44 PM
Jeri 10 Apr 08 - 07:11 PM
meself 10 Apr 08 - 10:38 PM
Thompson 11 Apr 08 - 05:02 AM
Bryn Pugh 11 Apr 08 - 05:12 AM
Acorn4 11 Apr 08 - 06:37 AM
Acorn4 11 Apr 08 - 06:47 AM
Bobert 11 Apr 08 - 07:26 AM
GUEST,dianavan 11 Apr 08 - 02:44 PM
GUEST,A regular 11 Apr 08 - 02:53 PM
Alice 11 Apr 08 - 02:56 PM
Acorn4 11 Apr 08 - 03:44 PM
meself 11 Apr 08 - 07:05 PM
Thompson 14 Apr 08 - 04:00 PM
Bryn Pugh 15 Apr 08 - 08:25 AM
wysiwyg 15 Apr 08 - 10:34 AM
Big Al Whittle 15 Apr 08 - 12:42 PM
AllisonA(Animaterra) 15 Apr 08 - 01:02 PM
Acorn4 15 Apr 08 - 01:22 PM
wysiwyg 15 Apr 08 - 06:33 PM
GUEST,Julieann 05 May 08 - 02:27 PM
GUEST,A Regular 05 May 08 - 02:36 PM
Acorn4 05 May 08 - 02:37 PM
GUEST,dianavan 05 May 08 - 02:54 PM
Acorn4 05 May 08 - 06:44 PM
GUEST,dianavan 05 May 08 - 07:53 PM
The Villan 06 May 08 - 03:21 AM
Bernard 06 May 08 - 11:22 AM
Schantieman 06 May 08 - 11:39 AM
GUEST,A Regular 06 May 08 - 12:36 PM
Big Al Whittle 06 May 08 - 02:31 PM
The Villan 06 May 08 - 03:00 PM
Acorn4 06 May 08 - 04:40 PM
Victor in Mapperton 06 May 08 - 05:15 PM
Helen 06 May 08 - 07:33 PM
GUEST,Vic at work 07 May 08 - 06:40 AM
GUEST,Vic at work 07 May 08 - 06:58 AM
Sooz 07 May 08 - 12:42 PM
GUEST,A Regular 07 May 08 - 12:46 PM
The Villan 07 May 08 - 01:19 PM
Sooz 07 May 08 - 03:37 PM
The Villan 07 May 08 - 05:01 PM
meself 11 Sep 08 - 11:48 PM
Sandra in Sydney 12 Sep 08 - 03:09 AM
Sandra in Sydney 12 Sep 08 - 03:10 AM
Jeanie 12 Sep 08 - 04:34 AM
Bryn Pugh 12 Sep 08 - 04:35 AM
Schantieman 12 Sep 08 - 04:43 AM
Big Al Whittle 12 Sep 08 - 05:35 AM
1LizzieCornish 12 Sep 08 - 05:47 AM
AllisonA(Animaterra) 12 Sep 08 - 09:23 AM
1LizzieCornish 12 Sep 08 - 11:37 AM
Folkiedave 12 Sep 08 - 12:34 PM
Peace 12 Sep 08 - 12:39 PM
GUEST,Lizzie Cornish (whose cookies aren't working 12 Sep 08 - 12:50 PM
Jeri 12 Sep 08 - 12:51 PM
Penny S. 12 Sep 08 - 01:12 PM
GUEST,Frustrated Lizzie 12 Sep 08 - 01:46 PM
Jeri 12 Sep 08 - 02:13 PM
meself 12 Sep 08 - 09:48 PM
The Fooles Troupe 12 Sep 08 - 11:34 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 13 Sep 08 - 03:45 AM
GUEST,guest cadc 23 Jun 09 - 08:08 PM
GUEST,Peace 23 Jun 09 - 08:53 PM
Rowan 23 Jun 09 - 09:58 PM
Eric the Viking 24 Jun 09 - 12:29 PM
Rowan 24 Jun 09 - 06:54 PM

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Subject: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Desperate Dan
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 04:40 PM

I am a Mudcat member but am posting anonymously in case I am recognised! I am a teacher who has come to the conclusion I need to get out for my own sanity. The long hours, the huge workload and the mindless data-collectors we have turned into means it is not the job I love anymore. I love teaching. I don't love the conditions that go with it. (Anyone who wants to fall back on quips about short hours and long holidays, please leave this thread to those of us who have the reality in mind.)

I have skills in people management, budget management, project management, negotiation, organisation and planning, addressing small and large groups of people, selling ideas - all transferable skills. My question is: where might I take these skills? In what areas of the job market do you suggest I start looking elsewhere? It might help to know I am in my late 30s, so am no spring chicken.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: jeffp
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 04:47 PM

Perhaps corporate education? You could use your teaching skills for teaching software or business practices, etc. to workers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 04:50 PM

Consultation - there are lots of Consulting companies up and down the country and they consult on all and any subject. Your skills are all applicable there.

Maybe if you changed your target audience (over 18s maybe) you might find a few of your marbles.

Good luck.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 04:51 PM

If you love teaching you could still teach but just not in schools. I left teaching in schools (you end up working most of the holidays anyway!)and am now working as a REOTAS tutor (but the future for us is uncertain). Whatever you do don't teach for the prison service - the pay is very poor.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: MaineDog
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 04:56 PM

Try tutoring at a local college. You get motivated adult students, and almost no paperwork.
MD


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Bee
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 05:36 PM

Whatever it's called where you live: vocational college, community college, business college, technical college, where mostly young adults are learning specific trade or business skills would be a good place to start.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Cats
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 05:53 PM

When I'm not in the classroom teaching, I'm wearing a Union hat getting people out of teaching. Before you do anything rash make sure you contact your local union secretary and get some advice re pensions, ways of getting out etc. Depending on which union you are in I can get you a contact number if you pm me. If you really are a guest become a member then pm me. There are loads of us out here who can help you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 05:54 PM

Yeah, I'm hanging on by a thread here, too. When kids ask questions like "why won't you let us read?" I know it's beyond all reason...

You might try K12 education publishers. Not that the publishing industry is doing much better than education. Between budget cuts and budget cuts, and testing for this and testing for that, I'd say the only safe industry in education these days is the testing industry.

And it is huge, if you have the stomach for it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: skipy
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 05:58 PM

I was a "teacher" for 6 years, I was lucky, I taught aircraft engineering to Royal Air Force apprentices at RAF Halton at HNC.
I taught "lads" who wanted to learn & of course I had a discipline system behind me to ensure control. Happy Years, but I could not do what you have been trying to do. Move on, take your skills to a place where they will be valued.
Godd luck.
Skipy


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 06:07 PM

You know, what is really heartbreaking is it isn't the kids. It is the adults who are the problem. Educators and consultants, fair weather politicians, the parasitical testing industry, the unions--for far too many of those people are out to protect their turf at the expense of kids getting a good education.

And don't get me started on what control freaks teachers are. What is up with that, anyway?


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 06:38 PM

please...'guests'...IDENTIFY yourselves by some name, so we may differentiate between you and the originator of the thread. This is now required to avoid having messages deleted.

Just read the last two 'guest' posts to see how confusing it can be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Folkiedave
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 06:38 PM

Try tutoring at a local college. You get motivated adult students, and almost no paperwork.

And which earth are you on?

Classes for adults mostly finished years ago. The students in FE colleges nowadays tend to be those who the schools want to get rid of!!

The money and conditions are worse than teaching. The paperwork is half as much again of that of a teacher - so many other agencies to satisfy.

People teaching well-motivated apprentices need specific craft skills, you cannot teach plumbing without being an expert plumber.

It's one of the basic problems, what plumber in his or her right mind would cut their salary in half to become a teacher?


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Amos
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 07:45 PM

Large corporations often have training departments in which a good organizer and teacher can make a difference. You also have the basic skill set, from your description, of a project manager. I'd start networking like mad in one of these areas, focusing on high technology firms with strong futures. If you're interested, you might enjoy becoming an expert on nano-technology principles and training in that -- it is a growth industry.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: dianavan
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 08:21 PM

Yes, it is very sad when you have teaching skills but spend most of your time with paperwork in the name of accountability. Especially sad when you enjoy the kids and take pride in their progress. Too much time is spent testing, recording, scoring, reporting and filing.

Trouble is, nowadays, there are so many rules that have to be followed that there is absolutely no room for creativity. Its pathetic how after a few years in the system, all teachers teach the same thing as the teacher next door. Some teachers teach the same thing year after year just to survive. If you dare to bring your own unique experiences into the classroom, the other teachers feel threatened. Its a bureaucratic nightmare.

Follow the rules (made by bureaucrats not educators) or get out before the system eats your soul.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Ebbie
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 08:49 PM

I don't know how it is nowadays but I do know that when I attended Community College for a couple of years at least two of the instructors said they were much happier teaching in a CC (One was a former high school teacher, one formerly taught in college). They both said that the students in CC were motivated, tended to be older- and asked far more questions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 09:00 PM

I come to this thread fresh from a meeting with my son's AVP -- my son is a difficult to deal with 18 year old - senior - ready (we hope and pray ) to graduate this year....

Problem - he goes to regular High School half the day and Technical High School (auto tech classes) half the day. His 'home' high school has a rule - thou shalt not drive to technical High school - thou shalt take the bus. I have had about ten meetings with the school on the subject -- his father and I are ok if he drives, if he wraps himself around a tree (which we hope won't happen) we will not hold the school responsible. Can he please drive his safe, insured, airbagged and seatbelted car to tech. high school? We finally were offered a compromise -- if we send a note - EVERY DAY excusing him from school to home then we can drive him to Tech High School. But I said, we are willing to arrange that he GET to Tech High School - ie, drive himself. No go -- we have to take him. But excuse me, I said, he is 18 -- do you get to impose your rules on him when he is released from school into our care. Well, yes we do, they said. And by the way, he had better not take any of his friends in his fcar with him as that will be HIS FAULT and result in more detentions.

Couldn't he be a part time student so these rules don't apply? Well, no because part time students are always in their fifth year of high school. Could we pretend he is a fifth year student -- well, heavens above--if we did they might all be asking for that privilege.

I looked the AP in the face and said are you SERIOUS - and he said, YES, we have rules to follow. How can any intelligent thinking person survive that environment?????


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: mack/misophist
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 10:08 PM

My brother in law was a teacher until the third time a student pulled a weapon on him. He lucked out because the school board asked him to accept early retirement rather than file a police report. And this was in middle school, 8th graders.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,~00~
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 11:12 PM

Are you American? Your spelling seems to indicate you are. And is it the communist public school system you're talking about? If so, good for you. Shuck it. It exists only to make children ignorant.

Home schooling. Look into using your licensing to set up a tutorial homeschool system. LOTS of parents want their kids out of the dilantin/prozac-pushing govt brainwashing centers, and you may be able to set up a home schooling network in exchange for $$$.

Just a thought. If I were a teacher, I couldn't keep doing that to kids, and that's what I would look into.

Good luck.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Michael from Manitoba
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 11:26 PM

As someone who spent more than two decades as a classroom teacher before getting a university post in distance education, I sypathize with you, Desperate Dan. If I were starting over again I don't think I would opt for school teaching, no matter how much I like the actual teaching part. I taught in a variety of teaching situations, including fancy prep schools, small rural schools on the pairies, schools in the Canadian Arctic and big city high schools. I pretty much did my own thing, and always got shit from the administration, which I heartily despised. I often wanted to get out but since I started about the age you're thinking of quitting, I was reluctant to drop to the bottom of the ladder and start anew. One thing I have learnt is that schools come in all shapes and sizes. Often, the school from hell exists two blocks removed from a school with happy teachers and nice kids. So much depends on the staff. the administration and the parents. If you're judging all teaching based on one or two situations you've experienced, it might be worthwile to shop around. In Canada (that's the only jurisdiction I can speak about), many schools focus on special programs like French Immersion, the International Baccalaureate or Advanced Placement programs. These programs tend to attracted motivated students, enthusiastic parents, somewhat more enlightened administrators (no guarantee, though) and offer teachers a much nicer environment in which to work. There are other alternative educational jobs, as earlier posters have mentioned, but more often than not, the pay is poor (private, church schools), the working conditions precarious (adult education) or the benefits non-existent.
Business - the corporate kind - often isn't the answer, either (I've tried that, too). I've the impression, Dan, that you are the type of person who would do well in a self-employed situation. I would make a thorough assessment of your skills and experience, balance this with what you really want in life - is money vital or are you prepared to take less salary for more satisfaction? And try to find some area in which you can start a home-based business. Self-employment has its own downside, but I liken it to a manure heap: it's better to be on top shoveling the stuff on other's heads than at the bottom getting it dropped on your own.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Greg B
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 12:31 AM

TRUBRIT --- no wonder your kid is 'difficult to deal with.'

You're sending him the message that every rule, every procedure
has to be to his liking in order for him to conform. Neither you
nor he are getting the idea that every institution, whether school,
work, or the local folk club, has a 'boss' and that person is
empowered to make decisions to which various other individuals
will be required to conform.

That's called 'life.' AKA 'the real world.'

People who insist upon having 'about ten meetings' to plead the
case of their little darling who wants to be the exception to the
(usually well-considered at the bottom of it) rules are in fact
one of the reasons that educators eventually become burned out
and take their considerable skills to some better-paying profession.
Indeed it's the fact that they even have to entertain 'about ten'
meetings that kills them. Decades ago, they would simply have said
'Mrs TRUBRIT, I've explained the rules to you, clearly and
unequivocally. Now I expect you to inform your son that he's to
take the bus. I have other matters to attend to, my decision is
final, and I won't be spending any further time on the matter.
Good day.'

You would do very well to tell the young lad to do as he's told,
remember that HE'S the student, not the boss yet, suck it up, get
his backside onto the bus to make the most of the free education
(and transportation) that 95% of the world would die for, and
prepare himself to be a productive member of society (at the
entry level). If, of course, he wishes to continue to have his
no-doubt voracious 18-year-old appetite sated on a regular
basis going forward.

Perhaps one day, when he is educated, his time will be 'too valuable'
to be spent with his buttocks on the seat of a school bus.

That day, I would venture, is at least several years in the future.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Anne Lister
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 02:01 AM

Desperate Dan, you have my every sympathy. I've been getting out of teaching for the past fifteen years or so... and so far succeeded in that I'm now singing, writing, storytelling and running storytelling workshops. And supply teaching, to fill in the gaps. And office temp work, to fill in the long summer with nothing much else available. I'm awkward, though, because I don't want a full time alternative and mostly like this patchwork existence.

I'd say check out your local employment advice centre to see if they know of opportunities in your area to use your skills, or any retraining possibilities which may be appropriate. Be aware, though, that unless you're lucky or in London it's hard to find work at the same salary levels as teaching immediately on leaving the system - here in Wales I was told I would have to expect a drop of at least £10K!

Anne


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Don LAst
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 02:07 AM

Even the most conscientious and even tempered teachers here are showing signs of extreme stress. They have to practice code red lock downs in case of attack and are reminded in print and on TV of the gun nut jobs that do shoot school people on a monthly basis.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 06:27 AM

I could write the book about this one. I won't bore you with my own experiences, but you really have to think this one out very carefully.

If you're not happy, teaching can be a quite ghastly job.

If you really must get out, you must take on board quite a lot.


Firstly , you have been used to working independently and using your intelligence. there ain't many jobs working for other people where this is valued. If you look around even doctors and lawyers are usually trotting out the company line, just like all those assholes you know who have their sights set on being a headmaster.

Conclusion: you will be better working for yourself.

If you work for yourself. It has pros, it has cons. You lose control of how much you work. Your clients decide that. If there aren't any clients, you work even harder til you have some.

the paycheques don't come with reassuring regularity. take out as many credit cards and open as many credit lines as you can, while you still have an income. With O% credit card deals they are MUCH cheaper than business loans. And as long as the econmony is in safe hands - youi'll be okay. If those crazy conservative bastards get it and take the unemployment queue up to 8 million again to give their pals tax breaks - as a newly self employed you will feel the cold. If you have a wife - get her to open credit lines as well. Use your nous, and you could get a loan up til May 2008 to set up your business, when the introductory offer is over, look for another one - the card companies expect this. Do it about two months before you need to, to avoid copping for one month where your income goes interest to these sharks.

Downsize, sell your big mortgaged house and buy something serviceable for cash. pay off all loans that you have - whatever it takes. If you have a carloan, end it. Get something serviceable from the auction. learn to minmise your outgoings whilst your making your first moves.

At some point you will need to expand yoiur business - the collateral in your house is probably the security that will make this possible.

If those moves don't sound right, just look for another teaching job. You may get lucky and find some place with nicer people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: jonm
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 07:27 AM

So here you are, once a proud independent innovator and motivator, keeper of your own plans, resources and records, reduced to compiling statistics and following seemingly ridiculous rules and proscriptions under the watchful eye of an increasing number of ignorant beancounters.

Teaching - who'd do it?

The options:

further ed college - more paperwork and bureaucracy, less money, some students better (the ones earning more than you), some loads worse than schools. Even more scrutiny from the beancounters.

private training company - even less money, probably piecework, no job security. You have to deliver whatever you are told to, whenever, so no flexibility.

training department of major firm - always the first to go when work takes a downturn. Most training managers are internally promoted, despite their total pack of an appropriate skill set, so the only jobs which go to outsiders are when the department needs rescuing after a major f-up.

I thought I'd found a fourth - get yourself promoted into a position where you can influence some of the decisions which get imposed, feel you're making a positive change for your fellow teachers, do some moving and shaking.

I'm now in an environment where the goalposts are continuously moving and I'm desperately trying to preserve as much stability as possible for my team. I cannot honestly say I've completed or achieved anything in the last three years, since the requirements have changed before anything ever reaches a conclusion. I'm kidding my guys I have a handle on strategy, when in reality it's all reaction to external drivers from a series of micromanaging Government Quangos.

It's all going to change soon. By 2016, at current age, recruitment and leaving levels, the available pool of school teachers will have halved. The Government will no doubt start off by foisting a load of unqualified "assistant teachers" on classes to keep costs down, but after the inevitable public backlash (at least we know have a Government where public opinion has some effect!) they will have to make teaching more attractive.

Regrettably, the private sector views ex-teachers poorly because of the perception of short days and long holidays (talk to some managers about how much time they can put into developing a one-hour presentation then tell them you do five a day five days a week!). That counts against you in the job market.

Give some thought to a sideways move - exam boards and awarding bodies are looking for people with front-line knowledge of students' abilities and assessment practices, perhaps one of the Govt. Quangos is recruiting.

Other than that, good luck and maybe meet you at interview some time soon.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 11:39 AM

Get real....just who do you think the law is there for the benefit of?

When you're a teacher the first lesson the old sweats tell you that first day in the staffroom is - it is now up to you to sort out your own salvation on the floor of the classroom.

You know what they in the The Alien, in space no one can hear you scream.......well the education system is a bit like that. If you ain't cutting it - really that's all to the good of the next classroom down the corridor - cos it makes that teacher look better than you.

As for anybody providing you with documentary proof. If someone offered that, it would be a sure sign they were looking to get rid of you. Tip you the black spot!


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Desperate Dan
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 01:59 PM

Thanks for all responses so far. My understanding is that adult education is in a mess. Working there would mean a huge pay cut and a short term contract only.

Dianavan: "Trouble is, nowadays, there are so many rules that have to be followed that there is absolutely no room for creativity." Yes, I used to be an energetic, creative teacher. Now I am a ground-down cog in a machine.

jonm: "get yourself promoted into a position where you can influence some of the decisions which get imposed, feel you're making a positive change for your fellow teachers, do some moving and shaking." I have made several moves that I thought would help me do that. Seems the grinding education machine is much bigger than I thought. If only there was such a thing as a position of power in education! All the decisions are made by people who haven't seen the inside of a classroom for years and followed by careerists for whom actual education is the last thing they think of when considering 'educational practice'.

I am willing to take a pay cut, but I could not take a huge one, as I have a mortgage to pay. I am scanning the jobs pages, but all jobs for people of my age seem to require experiences I do not have, as I have been doing my utmost in teaching.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,LilyFestre
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 02:29 PM

I have just received my state certifcation to teach! Before I graduated, every single student majoring in education (at any level) had to attend several professional seminars. One seminar was about resumes and such by the Career Office at the local university. Before the woman left, she said, "You know, you may get out in the field and find that you hate it. It wasn't what you bargained for and you want out. If you ever get to that point, come see me." Apparently she had started out as a teacher and found it to be less than what she had hoped. She showed us at least 15 different volumes of books containing information about what other things you can do with your teaching degree besides teaching.
   
I'd suggest contacting the nearest university career center, preferably one with a teaching program, and see what kind of information they can provide you with.

It's always sad to see a teacher (at least the ones who care) go but you have a point and so does Dianavan. There is SO much more to it and most people have no idea.

I wish you success in whatever you find.

LQF


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Screwtape
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 06:53 PM

The previous poster had it correct. You should go into administration where you can make a real difference in how things are run.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: dianavan
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 07:32 PM

I'm not so sure administration can make a big difference. They take their orders from the school board (trustees), the superentindent, the parents, the ministry, the Province or State, and the Union. You may be getting deeper into the bureacratic nightmare.

I now look public schools as a big, monolithic, institution that eats creativity and spits out mediocraty.

I used to be a true believer when it came to public education as the best way of providing equal access to opportunity for citizens. I now understand why independent schools, home schooling and distant education are becoming so popular. Its too bad but the public education system has been underfunded and neglected for so long that it is dying a slow death. Unfortunately, teachers get all the blame.

I hope you will find a teaching position elsewhere as it is a shame to waste your education and skills. Sad to say, its always the best teachers, those that care about and advocate for their students, that are burning out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: moongoddess
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 10:09 PM

I am a retired mathematics teacher who taught for 33 years. My last few years were horrible because there was no discipline anymore in the schools. The administrators were afraid of being sued, so the kids and parents basically did what they wanted. I finally found a reply that worked with some overly litigious parents. "I'll have my lawyer call your lawyer".
    I never stopped loving the process of watching a child's face light up when he/she finally "got it". But now, they don't have to "get it" they just have to have experienced it. Jeez.
    After I retired, I went to work for the US Fish and Wildlife Service as an Educational Consultant. This turned out to be my dream job. I got to write lessons and then teach these lessons to students who visited the wildlife refuges. You might want to look into this as a way of still getting satisfaction from being an educator. What I loved about my new job was that I could go to the bathroom whenever I needed to and I didn't have to wolf down lunch in 18 minutes while on the phone with a parent.
    Also, charter schools might be a way to go. I am intrigued by the suggestion to start a home school program. That is going to be my next project. You don't live in RI, do you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Big Phil
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 10:35 PM

Stay where you are, its a hard world out here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: mg
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 11:56 PM

What I would do/have done is work for the schools as a part-time classified employee. Benefits are excellent at half time in state of Washington. Then once you have put in 4 hours as a playground supervisor or whatever, go on to your more creative self-employed endeavor and hopefully earn some good money. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Desperate Dan
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 12:43 PM

Big Phil: "Stay where you are, its a hard world out here." Whaaaattt? You mean I have it easy teaching? My reply would take so long, the long hours, the lack ... oh, why bother. If the fact that I started this thread doesn't convince you, plus the replies from others, nothing I say here will. Thanks all others for your responses - I am thinking them over.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,well wisher
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 01:18 PM

Teaching and it's associated admin. is very demanding. If you feel that you're "going under" seek help from your employer, they have an obligation to help you. Inform your union, they have an obligation to help you. Once you've been down these roads, decide what is best for you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 02:11 PM

Going Admin is not the answer.

All the admins I ever worked with, both personally and in workshops I led that basically were about changing their school systems-- turned out they got into admin because they could not fulfill their original vision for change while a classroom teacher-- and found that in admin, it was even LESS likely. The school sytem (metasystem, not any individual district) is designed for only the slowest, safest change processes to survive.

PMs welcome.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Bernard
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 02:47 PM

It sounds as if you've passed the point of no return. Been there myself.

When I tell people I used to be a teacher, those (like trucker Big Phil above) who are 'outsiders' (no insult intended) always ask why. Teachers (and ex-teachers) just nod knowingly.

The worst part of teaching is having everyone else knowing your job better than you do...

:o/

The big problem with leaving teaching is that you are good at a lot of things, but have no 'track record' to use as a CV.

I got out 25 years ago, and am now an audio engineer/IT consultant. Even so, I still feel strange on a Sunday night because I think I should be doing some planning for the coming week...


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Wormwort
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 07:45 PM

WYSIWYG - they got into admin because they could not...[be]....a teacher-

Precisely my master's point. The original thread-starter has all the necessary qualifications. Read little heathen, then think.

May I suggest to Dannel - if she still feels the calling:
Department of Defense Schools for Dependent Children
(at least they have military discipline backing your command)

Teacher for Performing Children
www.studioteachers.com

Tune In, Turn On, And Join The Peace Crop
www.peacecorps.gov

Seriously,
Discipline With Dignity (Your tool-box for teaching lacks this essential)
www.disciplineassociates.com


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Mr Sunshine
Date: 03 Feb 07 - 06:00 PM

Wish I could help you, Dan. I've been trying to find a way out for twenty years ... for the same reasons ... now I'm taking a year off; in another few years, I'll take another year off ...

Remember: if worse comes to worse, there's the fetal position, under the desk ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,yvonneyerunderpants
Date: 03 Feb 07 - 06:31 PM

During the spelling lesson??


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Feb 07 - 08:00 PM

Try reading, TAEA - Dan didn't say the students were a problem.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Mr Sunshine
Date: 03 Feb 07 - 10:38 PM

"During the spelling lesson??"

???


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Arnie
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 12:38 AM

I have the answer Dan - become an Ofsted Inspector!! Then you can make everyone else miserable instead....


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,yvonneyerunderpants
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 06:36 AM

"During the spelling lesson"

"foetal" Mr Sunshine, not "fetal"

Dear me! Teachers!


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: maeve
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 07:16 AM

""foetal" Mr Sunshine, not "fetal"

Regional and cultural differences are reflected in the accepted alternate spelling, GUEST,yvonneyerunderpants.

Dan-

I'm leaving, too. I am ready to have my skills and talents put to good use while maintaining mental,physical,and emotional health. What will I do? Work our land, tutor, buy and sell antiques, hire out as a gardener, grow even more of our food, write, illustrate...

We're simplifying, clearing our debts and getting rid of culch as a beginning, and we'll continue to do whatever God puts into our hearts and hands to do. Take heart: make the changes needed for you to be productive, healthy, and fully involved in living. We have found that the real and apparent reduction in monetary security can be part of a better life. I wish you courage and joy in your journey.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,yvonneyerunderpants
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 07:50 AM

Mr Sunshine and maeve you have shone a ray of sunshine on the mind of an ignoramus. Apologies and good luck in your future endeavours.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Mr Sunshine
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 08:46 AM

GUEST,yvonneyerunderpants: Did you really have to apologize? I was working up to some deliciously sarcastic response ... guess I'll have to save it for my memoirs ("At this, I finally raised my head from my work-in-progress. I turned to her with an arched eyebrow. '"Foetal", not "fetal"?' I said. To my shame, I'm afraid that I could not subdue a snigger. Her eyes flashed fire." - Watch for A Life of Sunshine at Amazon.com).


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Miss
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 12:19 PM

Dan - I am not sure which country or phase you teach in, but in the UK, there will be a great percentage of teachers retiring in the next ten years giving me hope that it will be better in the future for those remaining in the profession. I have felt some easing of unnecessary paperwork and unrealistic expectations on my time, due to change of Head and my own expectations of myself.

I have taken time out of teaching and long since returned to the classroom. I have kept a balance in the last 10 years by always learning something out of school - computer courses, another language, music etc. You have to make time, be with different people and allow personal development.

Do you love teaching enough to feel it is your 'vocation'? I know one can scoff at that old fashioned idea, but if it is, could you change direction -

- change school
- go on a Local Education sabbatical abroad to refresh and bring creative ideas to our practice?
- aim to teach within a specialised field - EBD, Deaf, Autistic etc
- workshadow a friend in The Real World for a few days to see if it would suit you.
- work less than full-time to allow you to focus on developing new skills with a view to leaving teaching completely.

I daresay you have reflected on all the above and I wish you the best - back to my STP where I must note the LT for the SEN and EAL, include AFL, CTG and ICT opps.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Sooz
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 12:57 PM

I'm one of those teachers who will be retiring quite soon, Miss, and I wondered what you meant about that making it better for those of you remaining in the profession.

I'm looking forward to retirement (some days more than others) but I wouldn't chose another career if I had my time over again. Memories of the youngsters I've helped both academically and personally will follow me into the next phase of my own life.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Miss
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 01:55 PM

Better for those remaining in the profession - Oh dear Sooz, I wasn't very clear.

The trend for teachers leaving the profession is not sustainable. So I hope conditions of service continue to improve - proper availability/support for technology, less bureaucracy etc etc. So many of our County Advisors are near retirement - what will a new breed bring? So few apply for Headships too.

I maintain optimism, especially for my son who has recently started teacher training.

So I hope that lessons will be learnt from the last ten years to lessen demands and keep teachers in posts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: MaineDog
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 02:20 PM

Folkiedave,

Try tutoring at a local college. You get motivated adult students, and almost no paperwork.

And which earth are you on?

Sorry, I reside on the third planet from the sun.

I relate my wife's experience as a community tutor in Maine. Her students were mostly adults who had returned to college after som work, having realized that they need a degree to get a good job. Students who were having trouble with algebra, or statistics, or other undergraduate math, were referred by their advisors to tutors for help. She would meet one-on one with such students and help them, The paperwork was a single sheet checklist for each session, and the pay was far better than minimum wage.

Perhaps it is not so good elsewhere.

MD


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 02:24 PM

You'll be a sad loss to teaching Sooz - you are the epitome of everything a teacher should be, and without any of the usual vices! :-)

You're sufficiently enlightened to realise how privileged you've been to influence so many young lives, and to know and acknowledge that teachers aren't the only ones who work hard!

I'm also privileged - to be able to call you a friend - and I seriously hope the 'next phase' will still involve performing and organising in the Lincolnshire area!
S:0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 02:27 PM

I'm sure you're right Sooz. but lets face it there are a hell of a lot of unhappy bunnies down that particular burrow.

This chap seems very unhappy. If that's the way he feels, he's better off doing something else.

I can think of a lot of things that would have helped me be a better teacher in retrospect. If the job doesn't fulfil you though, how ever good a job you make of it, or how ever easy the job is for you - it really isn't for you.

I personally had no choice, when Denise got ill she was entirely dependant on me - she literally couldn't move with arthritis for nearly ten years till they thought she was old enough to do joint replacement surgery. I just had to stay home and take care of her. Being a musician and guitar teacher came out of that situation. Couldn't think of anything else - I often wish I'd thought harder!

This guy would be better off looking around and thinking hard what he WOULD like to do. Perhaps this is his chance to do it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Cruiser
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 05:38 PM

There were some social problems when I attended school from 1955 through 1971, but something has gone completely awry with the educational system in the USA. Some of my colleagues who are college professors have expressed concern regarding the lower quality of the students they instruct compared to earlier times.

I do think we need to return to excellence in education, higher academic standards, and discipline in the classroom.

I was a decent kid, but I got my share of swats on the bottom with a paddle in the principal's office, beginning in the 1st grade and ending as an 8th grader. As I reflect back on those times, I deserved what I got and I am glad I had the "direction" I received.

I had the utmost respect for my teachers, even the very few I did not like. I had profound respect for my instructors in Army Boot Camp even though I was much more educated than they were. However, I learned more about life from them that was just as valuable, and in some ways more valuable, as academic knowledge.

I would suggest you find some way to stay in teaching in whatever capacity you can. One of the worse falsehoods about teaching is the cliché: teachers are teachers because they cannot do anything else.

Good luck Dan


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 05:42 PM

I've never heard that cliche before.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: dianavan
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 12:11 PM

Cruiser - You're right. That cliche is misleading to say the least. In fact, I know plenty of people who are experts in their field who would not know how to teach their skills or manage a classroom. Just because you know how to do something doesn't mean you know how to teach it.

Good teachers are far and few between. The teachers that survive seem to be the ones who make the principal look good and/or suck up to the parents. Then there are those who spend most of their time on fancy bulletin boards, intended to impress others. In the biz these people are referred to as 'glitz queens'. It means their program and their methods are superficial without having any substance or meaningful content.

If there is laughter in the classroom and the students are motivated to do their best, nothing else matters. Its too bad that its the superficial that are given all the credit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 12:14 PM

Eanjay - 'Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach'. Oscar Wilde (I think, maybe....). Nonsense - there are a lot of people who can't in commerce and industry, and I'm obliged to work with a few.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,DODDs Teacher
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 08:08 AM

I work for a DODDs school overseas. Yes the pay is MUCH MUCH better. But the working conditions are all the same. I am just as burnt out and looking to leave the teaching job behind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 08:40 AM

"Half the teachers are due to retire" - what are the odds that Blair or whichever slime bag follows him will suddenly produce reports stating that classes of 60 plus students is the best environment for them to learn, so we don't need to replace the retired ones?

Having worked as a supply teacher, I have a lot of contempt for the English school system.

I'm busy training to become a driving instructor. There seems to be work there.
Quack!
Geoff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Schantieman
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 03:07 PM

Now that's a thought, Geoff. Might pick your brains about that at Miskin (if we have time in between mumming and port/cheese parties).

I'm trying to get out myself after 26 years. Singing and sailing are two things I can do - but I suspect neither is very lucrative. But lucre isn't everything I suppose.

S


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: SharonA
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:22 PM

Dan, I sympathize with your plight. Both of my siblings are in the American education field (elementary school level), and both have been teachers (one still is, the other has migrated to the administrative end of things and is a principal). Whenever the family gets together, I hear an endless stream of complaints about the ways in which the field has changed for the worse, thanks to local, state and national government bureaucracy.

Recently my brother who's been a teacher for close to 30 years told me that he would not recommend to anyone that they enter the field now. This really surprised and impressed me since I've never before known him to be without any enthusiasm for teaching.

It's a very sad state of affairs. So much for "no child left behind" -- the government leaves every child behind when it leaves teachers behind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 11:13 AM

Dan, much sympathy and I realize you don't want to discuss the problems of teaching but find some new path, so I'll spare you my education theories.

There are sizeable numbers of midlife people re-tooling into medical fields around here. If you live near any medical centers, you might research the possibilities. Your organizational skills could be of great use in hospitals and clinics. You might need to pursue a degree in hospital administration.

There are also 'allied health' degrees which basically train you, often over 2 years, for a specialty such as respiratory therapy, or being the tech who does echocardiograms, x-rays, etc. etc. You might like working with patients permanently or you might use that as your transition to learn about patients & medical stuff and then transition to administration.

Anyway, education is a mess, so I hope you can find a better place. Other fields also have their frustrations, but not nearly as much sheer stupidity as the classroom teacher faces.


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Subject: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 01:08 PM

I have lost all desire to enter a classroom only to be abused by a 14 year old, while my admin. does nothing.

After teaching for 7 years, I have tried everything to create a positive classroom environment, but have failed to do so. Not because there is anything wrong with me as a teacher, but because I am powerless. Truly powerless.

In my case, I don't see a way out right now, but I need an exit paln and have started working it out. Perhaps real estate, but I'm not sure. The only thing I am sure of is that I need to leave the "profession."

I also think that teachers who need to leave must think about changing direction and move into a completly separate field of work. Use your degree and start over; it seems to be the only way to avoid the mess that education is. I like many have a mortgage... and the idea seems out of reach, but think of the person you will have become after another 25 years of abuse. I can't imagine it myself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 01:35 PM

guest: not to detract from your concern and problem, but you MUST use some identifier/name, even as you remain anon.

call yourself "frustrated" or whatever, but use a name.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 04:09 PM

There are two references above to DODDS (Department of Defense Dependant Schools). If no one had mentioned it yet, I was about to. The system operates elementary, middle, and high schools for dependent children of American military personnel on bases all over the world, outside the US.

My brother and sister-in-law teach in the DODDS system. It's a pretty sweet deal, but I don't think job openings come up too often. It's worth looking into, just in case you can find an opportunity.

Pay is determined by averaging the going rate at the five highest-paying school districts in the US. Also ~ and very importantly ~ housing is provided as an additional "benefit" (i.e., teachers do not pay rent or mortgage out of their paychecks.) You can live in military housing on base if you wish, but you can find a place in the local community and Uncle Sam will pay the rent ~ or the mortgage! That's right, the government will buy you equity in real property in some foreign country, and when you transfer or retire, you can sell your house and keep the proceeds.

I know that the days and months for which classroom time is not scheduled do not necessarily means that teachers "work less" than the rest of us. Moreso than students, teachers have to do a lot of "homework"; that is, they have to put in many hours of preparation, bureaucratic paperwork, etc.,. in addition to the time spent "on duty" in the classroom.

However, it cannot be denied that teachers have more flexible work schedules than the average 9-to-5er. When school shuts down for the summer, or for a two-week hiatus, teachers are free to travel ~ and DODDS teachers are especially well-positioned to do so. My brother and his wife have spent Thanksgiving weekend touring Turkey rather than eating turkey, they've spent Christmases with the Vienna Boys' Choir, etc. (It's worth noting that the DODDS schools observe US holidays ~ obviously ~ which means that some of the days-off are normal workdays in the area where a given base resides.)

The bureaucracy is undoubtedly as bad, or nearly so, as that found at any stateside school, but the kids are generally better behaved, since their entire environment always involves a degree of discipline. They don't know anything different, and are therefore relatively manageable in comparison to their stateside/civilian peers.

It's also worth noting that DODDS teachers, as civilian employees of the military, have the same educational opportunities as military personnel, including a full selection of correspondence-type university courses. My brother essentially married into the system: he had only one year of college credit when they got married. As his wife's "dependent," he was able to take courses, fairly quickly qualifying to student-teach and then to become a full-fledged teacher, and now has both bachelor's and master's degrees.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Helen
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 05:04 PM

Guest, 16 Nov 07 - 01:08 PM,

I was teaching in Australian TAFE (Technical & Further Education) colleges for about 5 years. (This was the penultimate stepping stone to getting out of library work. This process has taken me over a decade, but I've had some interesting jobs in the mean time.) The vast majority of TAFE teachers are casual and only work during the 36 teaching weeks of the year, and have no sick leave, annual leave or any other conditions, and absolutely no job security, so after a few years of this I was desperately trying to get something more permanent and significantly less stressful.

I had email alerts set up with internet job search companies and one morning at 7 am while eating a quick breakfast before heading out for an 8 am class I dashed off a job application for a training position at a government agency. As it happened I landed squarely into a very bad bullying situation and got the chop 10 days later, but I argued for them to give me some work as an admin officer in the department. That lasted 3 months, and was surprisingly interesting. (Note: not clerical work but administrative processing). It required my full range of skills: communication, customer service, planning, organising, analytical problem solving, etc. After that I was given a bit of temporary (labour hire agency) work here and there and then a couple of months after leaving the government department I was given temporary agency work at the Registry of Births, Deaths & Marriages. What a great job!! I loved it and the small, friendly team of people were among the best people I have worked with, ever.

Out of that I landed a temporary contract at a related office to the first gov't dept - with full pay & conditions - Yay!! - which dried up after 9 months, then I was asked back to Births, Deaths and stayed there for almost a year - back on agency money - the pay is peanuts with no conditions and no job security. Then I landed a permanent job back at the first government department, which I was only able to get because I had 2 years of solid government experience by then.

It's been a long saga, but my point is that by taking on temporary labour hire agency work I was able to get work in areas of interest, build up my experience and my credibility in that type of work, and then work my way towards a permanent position.

What I am doing now is issuing speeding fines from speed cameras, which probably sounds dull, but I absolutely love it. It uses almost all of my skills, even my visual skills in analysing images, and it is a great team of people to work with, and the government pay & conditions are unbeatable in any non-profit sector work.

After being a casual teacher, driving from campus to campus, with no office space, having to carry my lunch and tea-making things around with me, not having contact with other teachers except on a random basis, the little things I appreciate the most are working in one office with my own desk, having a place to store my files, having access to a refrigerator and tea-making facilities in the next room, and having a great team to work with. The pay and conditions are fantastic. This week I took my first paid annual leave in 11 years.

So I went from fearing desperately that I was going to die in my library job, to fearing desperately that I would never get out of casual work, to landing in a great job, just by believing that my library and teaching skills could be transferred into other types of work - and acting on that belief.

To me, everything I learned and everything I did as a high school English teach, a librarian and a TAFE teacher translate perfectly into every one of the other jobs I have done.

A further comment: I found that trying to get work with training companies was extremely frustrating. It depends more on who you know, rather than what you know. Learn to market your skills, even in the area of getting teaching work in adult training colleges. My marketing skills meant the difference between eating and not eating, some weeks.

A friend of mine is currently attempting the death-defying feat of leaving casual TAFE teaching. She repeatedly tells me that my "escape" is inspirational. It took tenacity, endurance, a belief in myself and my skills, research to identify a wide range of possible jobs, marketing skills to get the work, and identifying useful resources and people, like the woman who re-wrote my CV and gave me hints on the exacting, very specific, and very gruelling process of applying for government jobs. The list goes on. And it took quite a while for me to find where I wanted to go. If you have specific interests rather than a very broad range of interests like me, then it might be easier for you.

My starting point, way back in 1993, was to start a course of study in an area which interested me. That was a good, solid beginning to my escape from the library because it gave me a chance to use my skills and apply them in a new area of study, and to get credibility and proof that my skills were transferable. It helped me to focus on something worthwhile outside of work and to focus on the positive, and help me to stop dwelling on the negative of my situation at work. It gave me hope. It was a stepping stone.

Try developing a career goal and a plan. Decide what information you need to progress in each stage of your plan, and identify resources which you can use to help you gain information or to move forward towards your goals. There are plenty of online testing sites and career planning resources - most of them free - which helped me to narrow down my choices of what I wanted to do, or to reinforce my belief in my work strengths, personal strengths and qualities, and my skills.

Go for it! And keep us posted on your progress, or check in here and help us to keep you feeling positive and optimistic. If you are a member here you can PM me, if you want.

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 05:06 PM

There is always an alternative. The trouble is that you may only realise what is was, years later.

I once worked in a school, which was so hated by the staff - they formed an escape committee, like in Colditz. A jokey thing - but very black humour.

Personally I got out of teaching because my wife was ill and I had to take care of her.. As I remember there was no concern for my plight expressed by my union at the time - no interest in my situation. You are very much alone. When your career drops off in your hands like a broken door handle - you, yourself; have to sort out the mess - no one else.

In retrospect - thirty years later, I would urge the following:-

1) do your qualifications partially qualify you for something else - or entry into some other kind of training.
2) as a teacher, you have worked with far more independence than most other workers - that is a really rare quality. Look for it in your new employment.
3) What do you want to do?
4) What are you good at? If you want to be something you haven't the qualities to be, look further.
5) Most important of the lot. Don't close your mind to ANYTHING. Its better to have a go at something, when you have a bit of choice in the matter - rather than having to try something when you HAVE to succeed. But don't use that bit of slack you have to be lazy. Try different things - you may surprise yourself . I did - by becoming a successful old peoples entertainer. Something I would never have guessed in a hundred years that I could do.
6) Open up some lines of credit now, while your credit rating is good - who knows whats going to break down. Get credit cards with BIG credit ratings.
7) Try doing some things to earn money in your a spare time. Learn about yourself - what jobs you like doing. If the teaching suffers - to hell with it - they broke your heart first!
8) Join Friends Reunited - have a few leisurely dinners with old college friends. See if they've made better career calls that you have - be prepared to listen and to learn.

best of luck mate!


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Diva
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 07:41 AM

Friemd of mine has finally taken early retirement after about 30 years and has never looked better or felt better, her stress headaches have gone.....she has the option of doing supply a in a school a bit nearer home but is enjoying her time so much she really doesn't wamt to go near another school.

The one option for me having gained my degree was NOT going to be teaching in a school, i would not have the temprement, first time one of the wee darlings gave me a bit of lip I'd hang them out the window........which I believe is not allowed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Diva
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 07:42 AM

and good luck Guest


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Jeanie
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 08:06 AM

There's lots of good advice in this thread. I left full-time teaching after 3 years in the job because I realized I didn't want to do it for the rest of my life. Nothing to do with *teaching* - like Desperate Dan who started this thread, I loved and still love *teaching* - it was everything else that went with it that I couldn't stand.

As others have advised here: look for ways that your subject training can lead you into a line of work. My degree was in modern languages and I went straight into export work and from there into translating.

You can use the first step out of teaching as a time-filler (and temporary cash earner) before moving into something else. As Weelittledrummer has said, ask yourself "What is it that I would really LOVE to do, given the opportunity ?" - then give yourself that opportunity by setting about doing it - maybe part-time, unpaid, to test the water, so to speak. Even if it turns out never to be part of your paid work, you will have the happiness of spending part of your life indulging in wherever your passions lie.

My own passion was for theatre. I did some training and over the years have earned a living doing various combinations of freelance translating, drama and teaching - yes, back into those once dreaded educational establishments, but in a very different situation - i.e. I choose where, when and for how long - and that way, I have the thrill and delight of working with children that drew me to want to be a teacher in the first place.

In a nutshell: with a little bit of courage, it is possible to make the break from full-time teaching and, by a roundabout way, create for yourself a situation where you can become the kind of teacher you always wanted to be, but which the system tried to stifle.

Wherever your subject specialism may lie, there are loads of companies these days going into schools giving, for instance, science presentations. This ad comes from this week's edition of "The Stage": "Actor/Teachers Required for sponsored science workshop tour. The tour will visit secondary schools throughout the UK during the spring term. Competitive fees and all travel and accommodation paid." There are loads of Living History companies, too. Museums, theme parks, country/wildlife centres....all need people witha teaching background. Pay is maybe not so good, but what the heck ? Having got the experience working for one of these companies, there is nothing to stop you then branching out on your own, freelance.

All the very best,
- jeanie


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 08:26 AM

I'm sure this will shock some folks here in Mudburg, but upon graduatin' from college I taught 5th/6th combination for 2 years... I loved the teaching... I hated the paper work and the administration... So I quit and took a job teaching G.E.D. in the Richmond City Jail at an "in house" (haha) drug rehibilitation program... That job also had me teaching at a half way house and, well, things kinda evolved over many years and I ended up the "save-the-world" phase of my life as a "social worker"... Not sure how that all happened???

But I burned out at age 38 and knew that "saving-the-world" would have to take a back seat to, ahhhhh, making a living...

...and looking at the skills that I had honed over some 17 or so years as a teacher/social worker the one profession that seemed to be a natural was-----(insert drum-roll here----)...

...sales!

Yes, D.Dan, sales... Think about what types of thngs you are doing now... Aren't you, in essence, selling... Teaching and selling aren't that much different except in sales you are paid better (if you are half way decent) and while there is paper work it's not so much that it will choke you half to death...

Now should you consider sales, here's the beauty of your situation... You have a job now... You have an income... So you have *time* to do an inventory of your interests... This is important 'cause it gives you an opportunity to figure out your passions... When you figure that out then you'll know what it is that you would be successfull selling... I mean, if you are now an avid golfer, you might want to go to work as a sales rep for a company that makes and/or distributes golf clubs, etc, etc...

I know this sound bizarre, D. Dan, but give it some thought... Also, keep in mind that companies won't slam the door on you if you bring to them your skills... Throw in a little passion for the product and, guess what??? You'll find that a lot of companies will have an interest in hiring you...

That's my 2 cents worth of advice... Just think about it...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Bruce Michael Baillie
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 05:14 PM

If you're finding teaching so hard why not try cleaning toilets for a living? for what, shall we say a quarter or less of you're current salary? How does that sound? Teaching isn't that bad a job, I'm not saying I'd do it myself I admit a lot of the kids out there are little bastards. But, YOU wanted to do it, so stick at it. If you try other professions you'll find there are a lot of people out there who hold to the old adage, 'Those who can DO, those who can't teach!' Stop whining and remember why you went into the profession in the first place. Don't give up!


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Helen
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 06:08 PM

Bruce Michael Baillie,

You admitted yourself you wouldn't teach. Admit this: if you have a vocation, a calling to teach and the situation in which you are teaching is unbearable then the pain and frustration of not being able to achieve what you set out to achieve is immeasurably unbearable. The decision to leave teaching is never, never taken lightly, but sometimes, to save our sanity, our health and our souls we have to leave.

Don't, please don't, look at it from the outside and cast judgements. If you yourslef chose not to teach why judge people who gave it a go and who are now in personal, emotional, psychological and spiritual conflict over not being able to achieve their noble aims of teaching?

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 06:55 PM

amen!


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Peace
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 07:00 PM

"'Those who can DO, those who can't teach!'"

That adage is such a lot of crap. It fails to account for those who both can and do teach.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Peace
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 07:07 PM

"If you're finding teaching so hard why not try cleaning toilets for a living? for what, shall we say a quarter or less of you're current salary?"

I have done both. I dislike that you presuppose that people who clean toilets are the worst end of the labour spectrum.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 07:45 PM

Yeah, looks as if Bruce M. Baillie, if this is a real person, might have made a couple or three mis-steps in his or her intro to Mudville...

Purdy, ahhhhhhh, stupid, to be blunt...

Plus, why is it always cleaning toilets???

I like cleaning toilets, myself... I like takin' them apart and fixing' 'um... Especially old ones that you can't buy no more... I have 12 old toliets just awaitin' me right now... Gonna take my pressure washer down and clean all the bowls and tanks and then rebuild 'um to use in the old hotel I'm restorin'... Ol' toilets is cool... Plus, they actually flush right 'casue they got them big tanks... No sissy 2.2's that you gotta flush 2 or 5 times to get 'um flushed... New toidies ain't cool... They just ain't... Sorry if yer a new toidie freek but they jus' don't compare to the real deal...

Now back to the subject at hand... Just had to get my toilet rant outta the way...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Yet another GUEST
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 08:28 PM

Just do it. I was teaching full time for 6 years, the last 3 as head of department, and decided I had to to get out before I became wedded to a job which had drained me of all passion for my subject. OK, I had some freelance work to see me through any uncertain times, but this was worth less than 20% of my salary as a teacher. When my teacher's salary finished I had a couple of uncertain months (with a mortgage to pay) and although I registered with several temp agencies they found me the sum total of zero work. However, I am now working in a field related to my degree and subject that I love. I am challenged and very busy, but with no stress, earning three times what I earned as a teacher, and I'm still freelancing too. I now have 24 days holiday each year, but don't have any issue with this. Fair exchange. I found my work not through an agency but simply through spending very many hours being proactive looking for something suitable. Many former colleagues thought I was mad to take such a huge risk, and maybe I was, but I believe that the long notice periods required prevent teachers from discovering just what great opportunities there are outside of the classroom.

Good luck. Just do it, and once you've taken that brave deicision, don't just take the next job that comes along. Make space for the right opportunity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: paula t
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 09:03 AM

I became a teacher in 1982. Since then I have seen the role change completely. I entered the profession because I enjoyed working with young people and felt strongly that I wanted to to help them to achieve their full potential- regardless of background etc.

I don't want to be a full time teacher any more.I still enjoy working with young people.I love being in the classroom - but years of the "National Curriculum" and constantly moving goalposts has drained me.Every politician and tabloid newspaper editor has an opinion about how to teach. That's o.k. in itself , but when their theories carry more weight than those trained and doing the job it is terrifying.

Today I heard that David Cameron has yet another bright idea. He wants every child to be "able to read" by the age of 6.What precisely does he mean? Who will decide when you can call a child a "reader"? He is going to replace the key stage 1 tests with a "reading test" ".Which one? What precisely will it test? Will he test the mechanical ability to read words, or the understanding of what is read? Where will the love of reading be taught as we all try to "tick the boxes" yet again? .

When I first started teaching , there were many options for students in years 10 and 11 who wanted to study "non academic " subjects. My first school offered pupils courses in car mechanics, building, carpentry , childcare - the list was almost endless.This vanished when the National curriculum emerged because it was felt that academic subjects were more important . Teachers argued strongly that for many young people this would be meaningless.We were ignored.The equipment, facilities and expertise were thrown in the dustbin - at great expense.Now some bright spark has "found out" that many young people are opting out of education and it is all the fault of teachers and schools for not offering a broad enough curriculum.It has been "discovered" by some highly paid advisor that these young people need vocational courses. we will need to train teachers, buy equipment and facilities.........

I sympathise with the view of the originator of this thread.I,too,feel torn between working with people I care deeply about, and being associated with the politics of the role.The use of education as a political football is totally unacceptable. I love teaching and remind myself constantly of those precious moments throughout the day which make the job special. However, the day is rapidly approaching when I won't want to be associated with the processes and ideology taking over our schools.When will we let children be children, and teachers teach?

Good luck for the future Desperate Dan. I know it is a hard decision to make.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 10:48 AM

Yeah, I agree, paula...

Though I have not taught uin a long, long time I do know many teachers who are completely frustrated with the National Curriculum because it is so test driven... And what is being taught places too much emphasis on rote memory verse critical thinking...

I believe that Aldous Huxley saw it coming in "Brave New World" with a class of people who really don't have a clue when it comes to, ahhhh, actual thinking...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Penny S.
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 12:26 PM

Sorry Michael, but the job is not what people went in to do. I retired last term, one year after I could, but I certainly would not want to have stayed on. My year leader is going this term, well early. Year leading, assessment coordinator (no extra planning time), gifted and talented (no extra time) teaching a whole new literacy and numeracy framework. And, by the way, the Y5 literacy framework is predicated on unfunded computers available to all the children in a year group for every literacy hour. Meanwhile, in a nearby evening class, the lecturer of adults in inspected by the Child Education Department with demands for individual learning plans for each of the paying customers. Who don't want them.

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Nov 07 - 08:01 AM

"I believe that Aldous Huxley saw it coming in "Brave New World" with a class of people who really don't have a clue when it comes to, ahhhh, actual thinking..."


               Of course, we can't have people who think; they might vote for the wrong candidates.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Nov 07 - 09:09 AM

Exhibit A: the 2000 election

Exhibit B: the 2004 election


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Nov 07 - 11:59 PM

Anyone who saw the lady on the PBS News-Hour who is taking over the Washington DC school system might be motivated to get out of teaching.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 02:17 AM

I have watched a disturbing trend lately.

It used to be that schools operated as a team. It was a horizontal process with the principal being a member of the team and problems were solved cooperatively and consensus was the goal. This, of course, required consultation.

Now, the trend is towards a top-down management style. This has had devastating effects on the morale of teachers. Teachers no longer have any energy for creative or innovative ideas because they are so busy trying to meet the criteria set by the principal.

This has resulted in the recruitment of bosses with narcissistic personalities. They seem to care nothing for the quality of instruction. Their goal is to look good in the eyes of the district. They seem to spend a great deal of time developing useles but 'glitzy' school goals and even more time monitoring teachers to make sure that their goals are being followed by teachers and students alike. Anyone who dares to question anything the principal says is in for a great deal of harassment, regardless of educational rationale.

Teachers have been reduced to factory workers and the students are nothing more than an assembly line product. Gone are the days of teacher autonomy. Say hello to standardized tests and teachers that are just doing their job.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: JeZeBeL
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 04:27 AM

I went to a talk last night, it was by Gervase Phinn.

I'm currently finishing my degree part time and fully intend, come hell or high water, to become a teacher.

I understand that there is a load of bureaucratic crap that goes on in the profession, but for 19 years, since I decided I wanted to go down the road of teaching, he is the first person to NOT tell me not to do it.

He freely admits that it's hossible for teachers now, and I see it day in and day out with my partner who teaches year 1/2. He's only just finishing his first year and it's taking it's toll on him already.

But no matter how much rubbish he has to deal with day in and day out and how stressed he gets, he's ademant that he still wants to teach (albeit in a different country!!).

I understand that you feel that you want to leave teaching but there are always more pleasurable ways of teaching.

Supply teaching is always a good option, at over £100 a day, you get to pick and choose which days you work. There's also the OPen University who are always looking for tutors, and you have the added advantage of teaching people who want to study.

How about a basic skills tutor.....my mum loves it.

I will be a teacher one day, I have the luck of going in with open eyes rather than rose tinted spectacles fortunately.

But one thing, I'd like to say how much of a wonderful man Gervase Phinn is, to encourage someone to teach even in this day and age of bureaucracy and paperwork and targets and statements and everything else.......what a brave man!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 04:45 AM

There's also the OPen University who are always looking for tutors, and you have the added advantage of teaching people who want to study.

Trust me, Higher Education isn't any better. Maybe the OU gets a different type of motivated student (possible) but Universities are filled with 'clients' (they pay to study, we're told they are our customers) demanding their 2.1 and constant spoon feeding (the government's aim to out 50% of the population into Higher Education is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard).

Add admin, pastoral duties and the constant pressure to bring in hundreds of thousands of pounds in research grants and HE is a pretty horrible place to teach as well. And we don't have the holidays... :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: JeZeBeL
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 06:16 AM

The OU is different....believe me.

You don't need to teach degrees, you can teach basic courses, and there's not a lot of paperwork involved really (otherwise my mum wouldn'#t have time to do it!!!)

People don't care what they get most of the time in the OU, as long as they pass. The students who study with the OU often just want to better themselves, or are doing courses paid for by their employers, so they're more than willing to take advantage of what is provided to them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Fibula at work
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 06:19 AM

I think I need to jump ship to the OU...


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 08:25 AM

Best of luck JeZeBeL with finishing your degree and a career in teaching.

I agree that teaching can be very rewarding and it does take a very special type of person to make a subject interesting and fun for students to want to learn. It take a special kind of person to be a teacher. I didn't complete my NQT year because I knew it wasn't for me. I take my hat off to anyone that is still in the profession and those that want to go into it. I also sympathise and respect those who feel they need to come out of it too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 11:53 AM

Supply teaching is quite a rough optoion in many schools. Senior teachers frequently can't be arsed to support you - they see no real advantage to themselves. Why expend effort on someone you may not see again....? Easier to hang them out to dry.

Some teachers can't be arsed to set lessons for when they are absent. One place I went to, the kids had been working on bits of paper, which later went straight into the bin at the end of each lesson, for the last three months. the teacher had buggered off three months previously to have her breakdown, without leaving the keys for the cupboard with their books in. And no one (kids included) were too bothered about getting into the cupboard, Admittedly a 'sump' class - but it was apretty mindblowing situation to walk into.

One morning I got a phone call at 9.15 - could I come in and take a class - like in ten minutes. So I broke the speed limit and got there - local school, not a good place to offend.
It was a GCSE Chemistry class - due to take their exams in three months time. I walked in and said to the HOD - okay, where's the work?
He went balistic, WHAT did you say...?
I said, Where is the lesson you wish me to attempt to teach with these children?
He just walked off.

Ten minutes later, he walked into the classroom where I was attempting to put something together - still shaking with rage and said between clenched teeth, I am not OBLIGED to set lessons in these circumstances you know......

Actually you could write a book.

Supply teachin...tell me about it. No don't, on second thoughts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 11:55 AM

Spring Chicken?

You are at the height of your powers!

I hope that is not too depressing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 01:38 PM

wld - "Supply Teaching," the way you describe it, sounds like substitute teaching in the states.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Paula t
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 04:30 PM

JeZeBel,I think you might bear in mind that Gervaise Phinn actually got out of teaching and became an inspector!
He speaks with great warmth and humour- but some of that humour comes from the knowledge that he sometimes had little idea of the reality of the situation for the staff and pupils at the school he was inspecting.
You'd hardly expect an inspector to tell a prospective candidate not to enter the profession!
Forewarned is forearmed!
I wish you every success.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: JeZeBeL
Date: 21 Nov 07 - 03:55 AM

Paula t, he quite freely admitted that it can be a god awful profession, but that if you want to do it you should still give it ago.

It's about helping to change children's lives at the end of the day isn't it???

But as I've said before, I can totally understand why people want to get out of it....and I wish the guest that wants to get out of it, well in the future career they choose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Nov 07 - 05:05 AM

What the Mr Phinn never says is that by and large Inspectors don't really add much to the gaiety of nations. I would be hard pressed to think of a single time they have actually improved matters by their interventions - though I supose it must have happened.

By and large, headmasters who had any sense, kept them away from the trouble areas - munching tea and biscuits in the Headmasters office as long as possible.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Paula t
Date: 21 Nov 07 - 08:43 AM

Teaching is extremely rewarding , as I said in an earlier posting.
I sometimes feel that the children ,with their unique and fascinating opinions, are the ones keeping me sane!
I think most long- in- the- tooth teachers have a wealth of stories about "those special moments".We could all write a book (if we had the time!)
It is the politics and ridiculous bureaucracy which are exhausting and demoralising.   

e.g:

We were recently subjected to a review of our marking by our link inspector. We all had to provide a cross section of our class books for "scrutiny" Fair enough.
However, she then got out a check list of points she was looking for.(which no-one had ever seen or heard of before).By ticking boxes she came up with a theory of how well the children were progressing - which bore no resemblance to reality.If we now follow the way she wants us to mark and comment,we will be filling the workbooks with our own writing, rather than the child's.(write a comment about how the learning objective was achieved, write a "next step comment" and pose a further question, comment on handwriting and presentation, then comment after the next session on how the pupil attempted that extension question............).The children only want to know if they "did their work right".No credit is given to us for discussing the work with the child unless we write it down in the book and date it.
There are 33 children in my mixed age group class. Every activity has to be differentiated for individual children in many subjects.This has to be written onto each teaching plan and then at the end of each lesson we have to note which individuals achieve,exceed ,or fail to achieve the learning objective.
I could go on and on. The list is endless.There is obviously a need for record keeping,assessment and careful planning and marking-but it would also be nice to be trusted to get on with the job once in a while.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 22 Nov 07 - 12:18 AM

Exactly!

I spend more time being 'accountable' than teaching.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Schantieman
Date: 22 Nov 07 - 03:54 PM

I've been doing this job for over 27 years, the last 23 in the same place - a very-well-thought-of boys' independent school in the suburbs of a big city.

During my teaching practice and my early career I was frequently delighted and rewarded by seeing that little light come on in the kids' heads when they 'got it'. This now happens rarely. Instead, my bright teenage boys, who are motivated to succeed partly by their own ambition and partly by the expectations of parents (who are paying) and staff (who are paid) to get these kids to succeed, have the stuffing knocked out of them by the exam boards, directed by the government, who insist on test, test, and test again.

The apparent necessity to test them at every opportunity interferes with actually teaching them. There's not time to branch off and pursue some interesting topic that comes up in discussion - even if it would be of great benefit to their understanding of the subject and how it works - as it would interfere with the great god 'Syllabus'. They ask 'Is it on the syllabus?' 'Do we need to know this?' 'Will it be in the exam?' when what I want them to ask is 'Why does that happen?' How do we know?' 'What if it's like this.....?'   And when they do we can't spend long enough discussing it because.....    well, you get the picture.

So that's why I'm getting out.   It's completely knocked the stuffing out of me, made me depressed and ruined my life. I wouldn't recommend anyone to go into teaching at the moment and am full of admiration and trepidation for some of the new, young and very capable staff we've recently taken on.

What will I do? Sail. Sing. Sweep roads. Dig gardens. Anything that will buy me food to eat. NOT teach in a school.


Rant over. Now, what have I got in the morning.......?



Steve


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 07 - 06:49 PM

" New teacher drop-out rate concern
Media Release, Wednesday 19 February 2003


An innovative professional development program for new Victorian teachers is hoping to combat the woeful attrition rate of beginning teachers in Victorian schools.

"Teacher shortages and the cost of educating them is set to become a major concern to those planning for the future of the sector," says Julie White, of Melbourne's Department of Learning and Education Development.

US studies into attrition show that nearly one-third of new US teachers drop out in their first year and that education authorities there have poured millions of dollars into induction programs to deal with the problem hoping to retain more teachers to work in the already under-resourced education sector."


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Lost Hope
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 02:57 AM

I have been teaching for 21 years. Over the last few years, it has become more and more difficult to go back into the classroom. I used to have fun with my classes. Enjoyed seeing what the students were going to come up with for the day. Now....I just want out. By moving to a new school district, I ended up spending thousands to update my 1985 diploma. I could beat myself. Why didn't I spend those thousands on getting a different profession. I want out of the teaching field. But what should I do with my talents? I don't know, but I will keep looking. Or else, I will go back and spend thousands more and get a different profession that I can actually face each day.

I miss being a master teacher and only being a teacher. I just lack the energy and drive that was there for the first 18 years. Now, I just want to get them to learn something....PLEASE.... I would love to throw every iPod, telephone, and other electronic gizmo out the window. Put NCLB in the equation and school has become a chore for the student as well as for the teacher.

I am tired and without hope,
Teacher/Lost Soul


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 06:02 AM

I was in Higher Education - Senior Lecturer in Law at one of the "new Universities" - former Polytechnics.

All the fun went out of teaching. You can find 2:1 degrees in a Lucky Bag, today.

'They' did a trawl for early retirement.

I couldn't get me hand up quick enough.

Today, I get paid for two loves - gardening and Law, so, whatever else it might be, it can't be work.

When I first went into Academe, students would ask 'How do I get into HE Teaching ?', and I'd advise them. Towards the end, they got a one-word answer - 'DON'T'.

On my experience alone, there is life after teaching - and a bloody sight a better one than in Education. Good luck. Follow your dream.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Schantieman
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 06:51 AM

Well, I have officially resigned, and they've appointed my replacement so there's no going back.

As from 1st September I shall be officially unemployed, so if anyone wants someone to teach dinghy sailing, powerboating or yachting; or navigation and related skills in the classroom; or to run workshops on various aspects of folk (especially shanties) - or indded to sing in a club or festival, I'm available! Reasonable rates. (Advert mode off)

AND - it's an enormous weight off my shoulders and I'm much happier now :-)

Steve


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Cats
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 02:39 PM

Now this isn't exactly getting out of teaching but as from September I am going to do two days a week for the union from home, Mondays and Fridays, and go into school on Tues, Wed and Thurs. I expect I'll get quite a few people out of teaching with a reasonable package over the next few years in those 2 days!


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 03:02 PM

I'm getting out of teaching, too.

It's a bit sad because I will really miss my students and the relationship I have with their parents and the community.

I will not miss the new principal who micro-manages the school and stifles creativity. I will not miss watching young, eager, talented teachers become stressed and cynical in a short period of time. I will not miss teachers who cater to administrative demands at the expense of their staff and students.

Education is much more than being able to pass a standardized test. Gone are the days when each teacher brought their own, unique interests and experience into the classroom and helped to create a socially responsible school where everyone was valued.

I'm still adjusting and beginning to create a new life. This period of transition is not going to be easy but I am looking forward to being free of the social pressure, the alarm clock and a hyper-vigilant boss who expects you to be a teacher 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: SINSULL
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 03:31 PM

Where do you live, Hopeless? In any major city you can tie into a lucrative sales position if you are willing to train for 3-6 months. PM me for details. I am not talking used car sales or door to door magazines. Run fast and far from pyramis schemes. Large corporations need people for business to business sales and your ability to speak in front of a group transfers to phone, internet and outside sales. Your local newspaper needs advertising sales people for phone and outside work. Lots of opportunites if you are willing to lern.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: SINSULL
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 03:31 PM

LOL lEarn.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 03:53 PM

Altho' this began over a year ago, this is my first visit to it. I am not, nor ever was, a teacher--I do think I would have been good at it, for reasons not germaine here. My heart goes out to all of you who have lost the fire for teaching, often for reasons outside of your control. I wish you all the happiness, satisfaction and serenity you have not been finding in your chosen profession

I have read that folks in law, medicine, sales (my former profession) and other professions, experience similar unhappiness over time. The less a professional is able to control his/her work environment, the more the unhappiness.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,diana
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 10:04 PM

I don't think its a matter of wanting control over your work environment. For me, at least, its a matter of professional decisions (within curriculum guidelines). My principal seems to think that the only thing that matters is that we do it her way and to acknowledge that she is (right or wrong) the boss. She also pits teachers against parents and teachers against teachers.   

I have always worked as a member of a team. Her top-down management style is suffocating us all. I wish she would stick to administrative duties and leave the teaching to us. She siezes on every petty, little error and blows it all out of proportion. She's a power freak.

I could change schools and start over but after 15 years, I think it will be easier to retire.

Yes, I have a union. Unfortunately, the principal does nothing that she isn't allowed to do. Its just that most principals choose not to exercise their power and authority unless absolutely necessary. She doesn't have to be so hyper-vigilant. I think she has a personality disorder but there is nothing I can do about it except stay away from her. She has actually forced me into retirement.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Rowan
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 03:08 AM

so if anyone wants someone to teach dinghy sailing, powerboating or yachting; or navigation and related skills in the classroom; or to run workshops on various aspects of folk (especially shanties) - or indded to sing in a club or festival, I'm available!

Schantieman, you remind me of an emergency teacher (the equivalent to "casual" and "supply" teachers elewhere) my school used to have available. I used to teach in Lynall Hall Community School; very "alternative" but part of the Victorian Education Dept and a leader in innovation until Kennet "Jeffed" it and the 10 other similar schools in the system.

The teacher I'm thinking of ran an art studio/shop (with his partner) called "Kites, Art and Penguins Dusted". The Penguins Dusted bit came from a line in a Ginsberg poem that mentioned "a pint of penguin dust"; people were invited to bring in a penguin (toy, picture, story etc concerning penguins) and he'd pull out a brush and gently dust it into an old glass pint milk bottle. He had it about 1/4 full at the time I noticed it.

His qualifications were really in art but he'd worked up a whole series of lessons involving kites. If he were required to teach "Science" he'd teach a series of classes centred on the science of kites. If he were required to teach "History" or Geography" he'd teach a series of classes centred on the history or geography of kites. "English"? Write some essays or analyse some texts on kites. "Art"? Make some kites. "PE"? Out into the yard and fly some kites.

Of course, the kids loved him and the teachers were pretty happy with him too; he was very popular and very sought after. Although he did a lot of work in Melbourne's northern suburbs he really got into his element when the regular art teacher on our staff took Long Service Leave; we snapped this guy up, but that leads into quite another (and positive) story.

He could well be an example for others to note.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 03:30 AM

Just curious: what *is* all this paperwork and admin? What do you have to do each week?

(And if there's a lot of 'paperwork', would you make your fortune by writing a program to automate it and selling the program to a million schools - or getting together with a programmer to do so?)


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Jeanie
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 04:05 AM

Funny that this thread has returned this week: Just yesterday I posted my letter of resignation from my only remaining and very part-time permanent teaching job. (I'm already doing and enjoying lots of other freelance work).

I used to love this particular job in this particular school, but since the new headteacher has arrived, things have changed in much the same way that others have described in this thread. The new breed of headteachers and their management style - borrowed from "big business" - as described so well by Diana and Dianavan, seems to be spreading at an alarming rate.

My school no longer has staff meetings where people can put forward suggestions and air their views, knowing that their views will be listened to and respected, even if not actually followed. They are called "staff briefings". Headteachers are becoming the type of manager who delegates everything to the point that they, themselves, do precious little except swan around in an expensive designer suit, checking that their ideas, however unproven, impractical and outlandish, are fulfilled to the letter....that is, unless they are unavailable, out of the building, at some mysterious and unspecified "meeting". It is a management style, whatever the business might be, which suits the manager, but nobody else !

I feel very sorry indeed for full-time teachers who are having to adjust to working under such conditions. I am lucky, my job is so part-time that I have been able to leave it as soon as I saw the writing on the wall.

Very best wishes to you, Schantieman and Dianavan, and all other departing teachers, as we all embark on new adventures.

- jeanie


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,A regular.
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 01:38 PM

I too will leave teaching this year. I will like being free of work at the end of the day, not having to use weekends to mark and prepare, not having to put up with administrations that care more about how they look to the public than what the kids learn. Education has become a world in which government statistics mean more than children, teachers are expected to do more and more with less and less until they try to do everything with nothing: it's time to say 'screw this'. I will be saying that in my resignation. There are other things to do with life, and being bled by a 'system' that doesn't care about its employees isn't it in my opinion. For those leaving, there is a better world ahead.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 01:40 PM

I will be saying that in my resignation.

Your career, dead. Really want to burn a bridge (and contacts) you may need to cross again someday?

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: bet
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 03:31 PM

At age 30, you are still a spring chicken! I retired from teaching when I was 62. I agree things have changed a great deal in this field. The fun is gone. We have so many skills that are necessary for the job. I now spend my time in retail. At my age, and I'm 62++++ it's a good area.    I'm sure with all your developed skills you will make it to an area that you can enjoy.
Good luck!!!!! bet


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: ard mhacha
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 05:08 PM

I have many friends who are teachers and also a few who took early retirement, the problems with teaching is the unruly children.
The main problem according to all of the teachers is the near impossible task of teaching teenagers, these youngsters now have free rein to do whatever they please, no wonder my teacher friends have opted out early.

I am in complete agreement with the teachers, when I see the vast majority of our children staggering around the streets under the influence of drugs and drink, all of todays teachers have my sympathy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Schantieman
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 07:34 AM

You don't need to say anything in your resignation except that you hereby resign from the staff of xxx school wef 31st August. OWTTE.

I agree about burning bridges - I agree about the way education, and the school's gone in the last 20 years but I might need a supply job back there sometime, so I'm keeping my opinions to myself as far as they're concerned. IF you want my advice, do the same. Or not. Up to you really!

Steve
(57 more days)


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 12:07 PM

Leave the straight-line thinking and endless box-ticking, mindless multi-choice testing, pseudo management-speak mumbo-jumbos to the colourless epsilon-minus semi-morons that now govern the world of "teaching" to their own devices. You're young enough to get another life (or, more accurately, get your own life back).


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Acorn4
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 01:20 PM

Some time ago, there was a discussion on teaching on the "Jimmy Young Show" - one listener emailed:-

"Teachers don't have holidays, they convalesce!"

I think that about sums it up.

I managed to escape in me fifties -will email details when I've read all the thread and have a bit more time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,A regular
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 01:22 PM

Thank you to both Susan and Steve who gave very good advice. You are correct, of course. However, I will THINK it as I hand in the resignation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 04:11 PM

And remember why. :~)

You may curse me on the day you do it if that will help you hold your tongue in cheek. :~) More likely you will just be feeling badly on that day for the people left behind. I think a lot of us have had that experience in some job or other.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Acorn4
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 06:44 PM

I've never met anyone who's got out of teaching who has regretted it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 07:11 PM

There is shit to put up with in every job. I think you have to consider whether the good you do the kids and yourself when you KNOW you've helped someone isn't enough to mitigate the harm the kids and you suffer. At some point, maybe you decide it's just time for a change because the shit isn't BAD shit, but it IS the same old shit.

I work with so many teachers who became frustrated. One by one, the good ones jump ship until the kids are left with teachers who either need the money or are hopeless idealists. The really weak and the really strong. I don't know that I'd hang in, but I have to admire those who know they don't want to do something and stop or know they do and never give up. I hope most of the ones left behind are the dreamers and believers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: meself
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 10:38 PM

"the shit isn't BAD shit"

The only kind of shit I know that isn't BAD shit, is the kind you use to self-medicate after a day of "the same old shit".


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Thompson
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 05:02 AM

Is there anyone here who really loves teaching? Who gains from it? Who feels that this daily work adds to the sum of goodness in the world?


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 05:12 AM

The motto in the Senior Common Room was "We're always in the shit - only the depth varies".

I saw too many of my colleagues' marriages collapse, against the 'Rocks of Academe'.

If your marriage didn't fuck up, your mind did - and on what "They" were paying me as a SL, they could, and did, pay two L2s.

I went in as a blue-eyed optimist, and came out the world's greatest cynic. Bolshie students - sorry ! - clients - weren't the least of it.

Give you an example : in my Tutorial, a student - oh, shit ! I mean, a client, threw something on the deck.

"What's that ?" asks Bryn.

"A tape-recorder" comes the reply.

"Pick it up, switch it off and put it away" says Bryn.

"Why ?" comes the answer.

"You didn't ask my permission to use it" says Bryn.

"Other tutors let me use it", says the client.

"D'you see them here ?" asks Bryn.

"Anyway, I,m not going to switch it off" says the client.

"You may then explain to your fellow students [sic] why this tutorial is cancelled" says Bryn, walking out of his own study. Fifteen minutes later I was up before the Dean of Faculty on a disciplinary, and got a verbal warning for cancelling a tutorial without reason. I wasn't given time to involve my NATFHE rep.

Those who can, teach ; those who can't teach become Head Teachers, or Heads of Faculty. To whose detriment ?

I'm still working. Life is good. The only teaching I do today is the Morris to the kids at my grandsons' school.

Worthwhile ? You bet your arse it is !


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Acorn4
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 06:37 AM

To Dan, the originator of the thread - late thirties is still young. One of the effects of teaching is to make you feel about a decade or so older than you really are.

To those who favour "conspiracy" theories, is the plan "get a lot of young teachers who will throw themselves at the job for ten years then burn out so we can avoid having to pay pensions"?

I had a "burn out" when I was fifty three due to all the factors discussed in this thread -this was because of insomnia caused by the job. Stress will always find your weak point whatever that is -my wife met her nemesis about a year later than me with high blood pressure.

A "burn out" isn't just the same as being knackered -teachers are perpetually knackered -it's more like prsssing the accelerator on your car and nothing happening.

I had had two days off ill in 25 years and then ended up having seven weeks off -that gave time to think -this raises an important point that teachers often cannot think clearly because of the stess they are under.

I'd kept on good terms with the Primary School that I worked at, and would advise anyone thinking of a change to do this. My burnout happened in May, and It gave me the summer holidays to think about what to do -to retire then would have meant a virtually non existent pension. I decided to do supply work at the school that I worked at plus a couple of others close by -as a previous poster said supply work can be ghastly, but you don't have to go back to schools you had a bad experience with. Schools like to have a regular supply teacher they know is reliable to avoid paying agencies through the nose -often a teacher knows in advance when they are absent and you can go in primed and ready, although you do need to expect some of those phone calls at twenty to eight! The stress of supply work is different, but I was able to do it for four and a half years, and then retire at fifty eight.

I probably worked three days a week on average and spent the other two trying other things. I was lucky to get a job with a company that makes learning journeys for schools by researching suitable websites. This can be fitted in as and when.

I started to teach guitar lessons - just put a postcard in the local shop windows to get started - you can transfer your teaching skills to areas like this - I invigilate exams at the local secondary school -these don't just take place in the summer these days - I do exams marking History for OCR in the Summer - I also lecture for the WEA -teaching adults, mainly retired, who want to learn purely for the sake of learning. I do all this, except one WEA lecture a week without the use of a car and we've actually managed on a single car between us for the past 20 years as I worked at a school within walking distance, or within range of a trusty, cheap to run and ecologically sound pushbike.

I got my bus pass a month ago ,and feel younger than when I was fifty. I have loads of time for my hobby, music, have made four CDs,we go to folk clubs and festivals regularly, and we get paid gigs every now and then. Recently I decided to go back into my old school to help with an IT group and teach recorder. I like this patchwork existence (I think the modern jargon calls it a "Portfolio")

I think it's such a shame when teachers reach fiftysomething, colapse in a heap and say "I never want to step inside a school again". It's so depressing after spending most of your working life doing a job to come to that point. Also, when you're longing for the end of the day, week, term att the time you're wishing your life away!

Everyone's situation is individual, and your situation, Dan, is a bit different to mine- your age means you've got a long time to make an alternative career viable, and this is a point in your favour. Obviously it depends on what you've got in terms of family, mortgage committments, etc.

How about:-

Do an assessment of your finances and work out how you can make any savings.Could you downsize housewise -this would get your mortgage paid off quicker? We actually downsized and are now upsizing again having paid off our mortgage.

Could you go part time? -this would guarantee some income and if you did , say, three days you would have four days, if you include the weekend, to dabble in other things which might/might not take off?

Could you do supply? -you might have some horrific experiences at first but try to establish a relationship with school where your face fits - I managed this with just two or three local schools using a pushbike, so if you've got a car available even better. The paper work seems to be the thing you hate most and supply cuts most of this. If you can think on your feet, supply is ideal, and even if you can't, a lot of supply is booked well in advance when people are on courses. Could you do it at your own school? Mangement are the way they are mainly because everyone is on the same treadmill.

I'm going to post a little parody I did after this.

Also, could we perhaps have a thread "funny things that happened in school" as a counter. Most people who make the escape attempt to succeed in the end and don't regret it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Acorn4
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 06:47 AM

Follow up post:-

Kick in the Proverbials

We don't need no education,
We don't need no self control
There's really nothing you can teach us,
Cos we already know it all.

Hey, kids,
Leave those teachers alone
Hey, kids
Leave those teachers alone
All in all it's just another
Kick in the b***s

Forms, initiatives and targets,
Inspectors never satisfied,
Monitored, assessed, evaluated,
Graded, jaded, crucified

Hey, kids,
Leave those teachers alone..

They're all headed for the burnout,
Hollow eyed, no life no fun,
No sense of humour allowed in the staffroom,
Po faced daleks everyone

Hey, kids,
Leave those teachers alone..

They can speak but we won't listen,
Fart and belch and answer back,
Attention span of a daddy longlegs,
Just give us Nintendo and mindless clack.

Hey, kids,
Leave those teachers alone...

You can't confiscate our mobiles,
We got our rights, you can't do nowt,
Tell us off and we will sue you,
Or get our dads to sort you out.

Hey, kids,
Leave those teachers alone...

Except that in the case of my wife's old school substitute "mums" for "dads"


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 07:26 AM

Well, well, well...

First of all, it's been 36 yerars since me last teaching job so for all of youn folks who have are resigning there is life after teaching...

Secondly, sorry, buty all you folks who are giving up your teaching jobs are fonna find out that you can give up the "job" but you will still be teachers???

(Huh, Boberdz???)

Okay, for you newbee retireee, you may not get it now but...

...you will...

Trust me...

B;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 02:44 PM

"Is there anyone here who really loves teaching? Who gains from it? Who feels that this daily work adds to the sum of goodness in the world?"

Yes, but I try not to dwell on it because then I feel guilty for leaving.

I love teaching and my relationships with students and their parents have nurtured me for many years. I do believe, however, that I will be replaced by a younger, more energetic teacher, eager and willing to kiss ass. Eventually, that teacher will also burn out and be replaced. Unfortunately, this results in an unstable staff with little or no experience who gladly does what is ordered without question.

This, of course, creates a system that that is always starting over from scratch. Experienced teachers know which methods work best but young teachers are still experimenting. If anything, the older you get, the more efficient you become. The more efficient you become, the more extra responsibility you are expected to shoulder. In other words, the older you get, the more you do.

Once you reach a point where you start cutting back on the amount of volunteer work you do (as a matter of self-preservation) the more you are viewed as 'dead weight' by the administration. I said no more phone calls at home, no more e-mails, no more unnecessary staff meetings and no more coaching and sponsoring. The principal (I believe) decided that I was a bad example for the younger teachers. I was also known to ask too many questions. She has made my job unbearable.

My lessons were tried and true so I didn't have to experiment to know how my students learned best. I've already thrown out the material that was useless and boring. I can leave the building at 3:30 because I know what I will be doing tomorrow. Young teachers stay until 6:00 (this looks very good to admin.) because they are still trying to put their lessons and materials together.

Basically, there is absolutely no respect for experience or creativity. The administration just wants little worker bees who do what they are told, regardless of educational rationale.

I've decided I've given enough of my life to a bloodless system who rewards only superficial teachers. Those who are passionate about education (teaching and learning) will not be supported or valued by hyper-vigilant, micro-managers. In fact, they will take all the joy out of your chosen profession.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,A regular
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 02:53 PM

It's called 'constructive dismissal'. It is in the economic interest of school divisions to get rid of teachers who are past a dozen or so years experience because they are then top of the scale and for the cost of two at the top you can get three at the bottom of the scale and STILL have 30 kids in a room.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Alice
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 02:56 PM

Dan, I moved into sales in my 50's. I am 56 now. My job does involve travel, but if you are in an urban area, you may not have to leave home the way I do. I have health insurance, a retirment fund matched by the company, and great coworkers. I am building up my client list, as this is only my second year with the company.
Selling is a lot like teaching and performing. It is all about listening and communicating, helping someone else get what they need from what you have to offer them.

By the way, lunch with my co workers yesterday became a discussion of how the environment of schools has degraded so that kids act like The Lord of the Flies. One among us is a former teacher who will never go back with the conditions in schools today.

good luck


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Acorn4
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 03:44 PM

Dianavan has hit on two very important points here - guilt and goodwill.

I changed from Secondary to Primary teaching in mid career, because there was less paperwork and crap -it had followed me within three years, when Tony Blair decided he had to wear Maggie Thatcher's knickers. At that point there was still the notion of "goodwill" - the unpaid work you do above and beyond the call of duty that most teachers did because they felt what they were doing was worthwhile. Nowadays the goodwill is taken for granted as part of the job.
Of course you want to work until midnight every day and weekends!

And of course the guilt -that pile of marking that has been staring at you for two weeks! The whole system relies on this guilt.

I remember well that black cloud that started gathering above my head on Sunday afternoon. Music helped me to cope plus getting drunk into oblivion on Friday night.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: meself
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 07:05 PM

"Is there anyone here who really loves teaching?"

Um - did you catch the title of the thread?


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Thompson
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 04:00 PM

Meself, yes, I caught the title of the thread.

And I asked *what* exactly was all the admin that people were straining to keep up with, but no one answered.

The tape recorder story - there was a lecturer in Trinity College, Dublin, who came in every day to find some of the students replaced by whirring cassette recorders. Finally one day he came in to find *only* cassette recorders.

The next day, the students came in to find that their cassette recorders were recording - his cassette recorder.

They got the idea, and started attending the lectures again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 15 Apr 08 - 08:25 AM

Ah - but did he get a bollocking from the Dean of Faculty, like I did ?

Five quid says he didn't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Apr 08 - 10:34 AM

"Is there anyone here who really loves teaching?"

Teachers tend to love TEACHING-- not substitute parenting, substitute administrating, and/or substitute policing. If they loved those things, they'd have gone into childcare, administration, or police/corrections work. When the thing one loves is no longer possible, the healthy response is to seek opportunties where one CAN use one's gifts and talents responsibly.

Some teaching skills are transferable to other venues, where they can be put to use effectively.


I didn't learn this in teaching, but I did learn it in a burnout situation-- you can accomplish a lot more, and far more positively, with less cost to self, without doing uphill work that drains the self)-- 99% of the time. The guilt over leaving an untenable situation in favor of better allocation of effort often has been installed by the institution profiting from the guilt. Guilt robs effectiveness toward goals.

One of the first things any "agent of change" in any setting must learn (and practice despite pressure) is committed, resolute stewardship over one's personal, internal resources. If the work is important, it's important to be at one's best to do it-- not ragged around the edges AND inside.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Apr 08 - 12:42 PM

'We were recently subjected to a review of our marking by our link inspector'

Now that just shows how little some idiot who devised this, knows about teaching. If you apply the same criteria to every classbook that you mark, you would make a right bollocks of the task of teaching.

Some children need endless praise and encouragement to even make a start at classwork.

How can an outsider who doesn't know your relationship with the pupil, possibly gauge the effect you are hoping to achieve with the way you mark the book? The whole point is to motivate, as best you can, with what you have.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 15 Apr 08 - 01:02 PM

Well, I submitted my resignation letter yesterday. For the past several years I've wondered how I could keep up the pace that public (government-run) teaching requires, how I could keep up the energy, maintain the schedule, and also have a life outside of the classroom.

Now my husband-to-be is helping me make it possible. After this school year is over, we are going to spend more time making music together, savoring life, and finding new ways to slow down while living happily and frugally ever after!

We'll still teach, go into schools, work with kids (and grownups) and share the music. But I'm so tired of the warehouse style of education. I'm so grateful to be given the opportunity to go my own way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Acorn4
Date: 15 Apr 08 - 01:22 PM

Good on you, Animaterra, you won't look back!

To those of you still feeling hopelessly stuck and getting on in years, the survival technique is to go into "hibernate" mode, like a computer during staff meetings, etc, when(if) the class are getting on quietly and just use bursts of energy when you need it.

A number of years ago there used to be a magazine called "Escape" produced especially for teachers who wanted to dig that tunnel; not sure what happened to it.

The powers that be will never learn until there are no teachers left!


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Apr 08 - 06:33 PM

WAY TO GO ALLISON!

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Julieann
Date: 05 May 08 - 02:27 PM

Have just picked up this thread as I am at the point of giving up teaching. I am 54, teach in special ed and just about hanging in there.

I had some time off work two years ago due to stress. I went back to work but I no longer have the energy to be creative in the classroom as paperwork takes up so much of that time. I now do the job that two teachers used to do. More assistants to manage and more children with highly complex needs.

Teaching has become obsessed with meeting government targets and I feel as a society we are creating more problems than solving them by being driven this way as parents and teachers of the future generations.

I am disillusioned and feel swamped by state intervention and meddling.

Three weeks to make that decision.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,A Regular
Date: 05 May 08 - 02:36 PM

My resignation was in last week. I am very pleased.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Acorn4
Date: 05 May 08 - 02:37 PM

Go for it!

I've never met anyone who has regretted it. You won't have that huge black cloud gathering over your head on a Sunday afternoon!


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 05 May 08 - 02:54 PM

I love teaching but have to go. The paperwork (and I don't mean marking) is more than I can take. Being 'accountable' and communicating with so many others requires about 50% of my time. I would rather be teaching. I have the skills and my students are very successful. Unfortunately, most of my time is spent doing what a secretary could do.

Wouldn't it be far more effective if Special Ed. teachers worked as a team and had a secretary (at half the pay) to do all of the scheduling for meetings, phone calls, letters and filing? I would then be free to do what I was trained to do. Of course it will never happen because it makes too much sense.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Acorn4
Date: 05 May 08 - 06:44 PM

I recently read a book on the Tudors and there was a section on how they chose to educate their children. There was a debate going on even then about methods/philosophies. I haven't got the exact quote but one of the most respected teachers of the time said that the current trend in education seemed to be that children were like an empty jug that you filled with water and even though it spilled out of the top, you carried on filling it. We haven't really got very far in 500 years , have we?


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 05 May 08 - 07:53 PM

If the secretary required seven years of post-secondary education, it would be fair to give him the same pay. Of course the secretary would also have to know how to teach.

The point is, guest, that I can do secretarial work but it is a waste of my skills and training. In addition, it is doubtful whether or not a secretary has the skills to teach, especially those students who require alternate methods of instruction. If a secretary wants to teach, they can earn their degree the same way I did and get a teacher's pay.

I doubt very much if parents would want their children taught by secretaries but if the public school system continues to mis-use their teachers, that is exactly what will happen. I want to teach. If I wanted a secretarial job, I wouldn't have removed myself from the work force to get a teaching degree.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: The Villan
Date: 06 May 08 - 03:21 AM

You are dead right dainavan.
We need to get back to the old basics.
Secretarial Pools
Matrons in charge of hospitals

I see little point in a qualifies teacher who is very good wasting half their time on paperwork. Just think how many more children they could help.

As you say its too simple for pompous ivory tower bosses to understand.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Bernard
Date: 06 May 08 - 11:22 AM

Couldn't agree more!


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Schantieman
Date: 06 May 08 - 11:39 AM

Go for it, Julieann

I resigned a couple of months ago nad am counting down the days to the end of term. Sailing, Cadets stuff, and NO MARKING! ;-)

Steve


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,A Regular
Date: 06 May 08 - 12:36 PM

I will miss the kids. And that is all I will miss.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 May 08 - 02:31 PM

take better aim


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: The Villan
Date: 06 May 08 - 03:00 PM

nice one Al LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Acorn4
Date: 06 May 08 - 04:40 PM

Don't believe the myth that people in their fifties are unemployable - it is harder to get a full time permanent job, but then again not many who have kicked teaching into touch would want that -the portfolio approach "a leetle beet of thees and a leetle beet of that" (to quote Clouseau) can top up nicely where you've been robbed of part of your pension.

Or of course, just put your feet up if you can afford it!


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Victor in Mapperton
Date: 06 May 08 - 05:15 PM

Children will openly defy teachers and quote their human rights if they do wrong. On top of that parents are always willing to take the children's side.

In my day the role of the teacher was respected, in school and out of it. I never went home and said I misbehaved because I would of got disciplined there too !

Political Correctness has went too far. Most teachers are responsible people. I never received discipline I didn't deserve !


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Helen
Date: 06 May 08 - 07:33 PM

If you want some black humour regarding the new style of top-down management by school principals, watch the tv cartoon show called Daria. The principal is exactly as described in this thread, even down to the smart suit.

Daria & her similarly intelligent, creative friends are a joy to watch, and the humourous juxtapositions of Daria to her sister Quinn & friends (members of The Fashion Club) is funny. It is a very clever show, much more intelligent than many of the other tv programmes on offer, cartoon or live performance alike. A lot of the scenes are at Daria & Quinn's high school, and there are teachers with quirky personalities who have various ways of dealing with the stress. I wish I had the whole set to watch over & over. I love it!

I didn't realise until I just read this whole thread through that the school situation in Daria is one of the reasons I relate so much to the show.

Helen
(still happy as a reconfigured ex-teacher)


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Vic at work
Date: 07 May 08 - 06:40 AM

Sorry - abberant computer.

Two things 1]See SOS thread, this explains why teachers want out. CYA, make the figures look good, tell the boss what they want to hear but don't ever try to be an Educator!


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Vic at work
Date: 07 May 08 - 06:58 AM

Can some one teach me how to use a computer?

    2]On both sides of the pond there are organisations who will offer help and advice to those wanting to change their careers.

Vic
In several parts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Sooz
Date: 07 May 08 - 12:42 PM

I have forty seven more days to go.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,A Regular
Date: 07 May 08 - 12:46 PM

34 and 3/4 days left--but who's counting?


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: The Villan
Date: 07 May 08 - 01:19 PM

Just for you Sooz Days go by

Maybe you can swap Mr Sooz for this guy :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Sooz
Date: 07 May 08 - 03:37 PM

It seems that there are quite a few of us counting!


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: The Villan
Date: 07 May 08 - 05:01 PM

I am so glad that teachers know how to count :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: meself
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 11:48 PM

Handed in my resignation yesterday. Going to go to work for/with a friend doing home renovations, etc., for awhile, see what happens, take it from there ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 03:09 AM

Someone here had a brilliant idea to deal with the teacher shortage in under-privileged schools.

Send the best of the newly graduated teachers to these schools!

Someone else commented that it would be the way to send these folks straight out of the school system, & that it would be far better to send them to the "good" schools, & move highly experienced teachers to the difficult schools. Tho as we have had lots of resignations, I dunno if that would work, either.

sandra


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 03:10 AM

ps. enjoy your new life, meself

sandra


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Jeanie
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 04:34 AM

Very best wishes to you, "meself", for your last school term and for the start of your new life in January.

There were a lot of us on this thread: Sooz, 'A Regular', Schantieman, Julieann, Animaterra and me (apologies for any I have left out) who had handed in their notice to leave at the end of the Summer Term. How are you all doing ?

I must say, it did feel rather strange last week (even though my job was only part time) not to be going in to school. I had that odd, persistent feeling of "I should BE somewhere"... The one thing I am certainly going to miss is seeing the same children year on year growing up and moving through the school. The rest (as discussed here) you can keep !

I have a lovely new job as "Victorian School Teacher" in a museum, giving lessons 1880's-style to visiting (costumed) school groups, and next week I start out touring schools doing Shakespeare workshops and have a small speaking part in a film - none of which I could have done if still shackled to a regular school timetable, however part-time it was.

All best wishes to all last term's departing Mudcat teachers. Hope things are going really well for you.

- jeanie


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 04:35 AM

Rock on, meself - today, I get paid for two loves, gardening and Law, so whatever else it might be, it can't be work.

Good luck, long life and much happiness. They ARE achievable outside the class room and lecture theatre !


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Schantieman
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 04:43 AM

I haven't posted on this thread for some time but just happened to see it.

The good news is that I am now an ex-teacher :-D The even better news is that I am starting to earn a little money to satisfy my meagre needs by teaching sailing, in various ways. As a result, I am happier, less stressed and more content than I've been for years. And poorer, but you can't have everything.

Thank you to those on here who provided advice months ago. The power of the Cat!!

Steve


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 05:35 AM

Sandra this post set off a powerful load of memories off:-
'Someone here had a brilliant idea to deal with the teacher shortage in under-privileged schools.

Send the best of the newly graduated teachers to these schools!

Someone else commented that it would be the way to send these folks straight out of the school system, & that it would be far better to send them to the "good" schools, & move highly experienced teachers to the difficult schools. Tho as we have had lots of resignations, I dunno if that would work, either.

sandra'

I was a teacher in the 1970's in a several large city schools.

There was a theory, current at the time, that senior teachers were a bit like bloodstock. You had to improve the bloodline, by importing senior teachers from 'good' schools. Show the scufflers and footsoldiers what it was about.

We ended up - with a headmaster who spent all his time gong out addressing various august bodies; a deputy who spent the entire year on a mysterious activity called 'doing the tietable'; and a second deputy who never ventured out ofhis office and spent his time growing a beard - we couldn't really see if he did anything else. They all avoided contact with the kids like the plague.

Occasionally the Head would do a gabbled assembly talk - delivered at speed for his time was precious. The nice kids used to occasionallly remark, what was that about.

Now and then we would be given a new school rule, but we never really knew what the old school rules were - and anyway it was more about which rules you could get away with applying.

Now and then we would get some idiot destined for high office in the teacher strength, and these had to be kept way from the kids at all costs. One was given a playground duty to perform, and caused a riot. He was dragged from the crowd in the nick of time shouting, 'I have my standards....!'

So we took him off the onerous business of standing in the playground and gave him an empty corridor to patrol, where he could be alone with his standards.

Theres a lot wrong with English schools and its unlikely to ever get right. All the executive power resides in the hands of middle class plonkers and hustlers - endlessly coming up with simplistic answers. True professionalism is sneered at. Like the rest of society really.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: 1LizzieCornish
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 05:47 AM

This was supposed to be in my post above (Sorry, having severe computer problems at present, hence new, slightly changed name, had to re-join)

The speeches and wisdom of John Taylor Gatto


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 09:23 AM

Thanks, Jeanie, I'm doing very well. Getting married a week from tomorrow is taking up much of my time, but I'm also having time to practice, exercise, and sleep a full 8 hours!

Lizzie, I skimmed part of the above article, but got stuck on the comment that the writer's children watch 55 hours/week of television. I may be in the minority, but that's at the crux of the problem today. I am convinced that television is the great mass hypnotist- instead of having time out of school to explore, create, swing on a swing, mess with paints or books or boats, children's minds are being taken over by the thoughts of others in a far more mind-killing way than 6 hours of schooling can do.

Allison


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: 1LizzieCornish
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 11:37 AM

Hi, Allison, John Gatto is a teacher. He's talking about the children he teaches, when he uses the term 'my'......

"..But here is the calculus of time the children I teach must deal with:

Out of the 168 hours in each week, my children sleep 56. That leaves them 112 hours a week out of which to fashion a self.

My children watch 55 hours of television a week according to recent reports. That leaves them 57 hours a week in which to grow up..."


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 12:34 PM

I got out of teaching by the simple expedient of retiring.

And despite requests - have refused to go back.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Peace
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 12:39 PM

That is too much TV. But then I thing five minutes is too much TV.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish (whose cookies aren't working
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 12:50 PM

"..I may be in the minority, but that's at the crux of the problem today. I am convinced that television is the great mass hypnotist- instead of having time out of school to explore, create, swing on a swing, mess with paints or books or boats, children's minds are being taken over by the thoughts of others in a far more mind-killing way than 6 hours of schooling can do..."

Oh...I was going to comment on Allison's post, regarding my post earlier on, but...it's been removed for some reason.

So I guess there's no point.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 12:51 PM

Lizzie, please do not join AGAIN.

Go to the Login page and log in.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Penny S.
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 01:12 PM

I have been going back into the school where I taught school as a volunteer to teach swimming, and done a few supply days. For these, I do have lessons set up - I make sure I do by going in in advance! And I mark, and can take ICT lessons. (Agency staff are usually untrained in this).

My sister has been driven into resignation. I can't go into details, but while someone is going through bereavement, pastoral care would suggest a duty of care which has not been shown. Another good teacher lost.

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Frustrated Lizzie
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 01:46 PM

From Jeri "Lizzie, please do not join AGAIN. Go to the Login page and log in."

Sorry to take this off course, everyone, but I can't PM Jeri.

It won't let me log in, Jeri. It says I'm not a member etc. So, I join again..and then...it er..says I'm not a member. I'm a trifle baffled.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 02:13 PM

Your Mudcat name is Lizzie Cornish 1, if that helps. That account is open. You'll be re-united with all your PMs.

Otherwise, I'd suggest e-mailing Joe Offer, or I can let him know you need help. He can have your password sent back to the e-mail address with which you registered, or you can work things out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: meself
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 09:48 PM

Thanks for the good wishes. I'm really looking forward to living something like a normal life ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 11:34 PM

My elderly 7th grade teacher used to to get out of teaching us by setting us some problems to do, then falling asleep in his chair...


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 03:45 AM

A path to why so many teachers want to get out of teaching, these days.

A very interesting view on our Education Systems and why they are going so very wrong for our children, but so very right for our Governments. Governments who happily carry on creating a society that no longer has the natural instinct to want to learn, to disobey, or to ask questions. Orwell knew why, and so does John Gatto.

John Taylor Gatto - State Controlled Consciousness

Here is the speech which was removed yesterday, for some reason, perhaps it was deemed too long to be on the board, so I'll link to it via the site itself, and when John talks of 'my' children, he is talking about his students:

Why Schools Don't Educate

"A former New York teacher of the year, Gatto is the most interesting writer on education today. He shows that our bureaucratic schools and our bureaucratic society get in the way of learning, and he often contrasts modern America with 19th century America, where family, work, and democratic self-government let people educate themselves."

Some of John's speeches


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,guest cadc
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 08:08 PM

I know where you are coming from perhaps you could look at being a homebound/ hospital teacher. I got a few speech language courses and qualified as a speech therapist aide( a speech teacher who doesn't write lesson plans or IEPs-- just does ther therapy under the direction of the Slp. These are used in both schools, hospitals, and private clinics.
thought it might help


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Peace
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 08:53 PM

A teacher is explaining biology to her 4th grade students. 'Human beings are the only animals that stutter,' she says.


A little girl raises her hand. 'I had a kitty-cat who stuttered.'


The teacher, knowing how precious some of these stories could become,
asked the girl to describe the incident.


'Well', she began, 'I was in the back yard with my kitty and the Rottweiler
that lives next door got a running start and before we knew it, he jumped
over the fence into our yard!' That must've been scary,' said the teacher.
'It sure was,' said the little girl.


'My kitty raised her back, went "Ffffff! Ffffff!, Ffffff," but before she could say 'Fuck!,' the Rottweiler ate her!


The teacher had to leave the room.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Rowan
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 09:58 PM

Article from: The Australian
Aban Contractor, London June 24, 2009

AN independent think tank has condemned Britain's once prestigious A-level examination system, saying it stymies independent study and original thought, and universities should be put back in charge of overseeing the system.

The rise of the "ersatz A-level", after radical changes in 2000, has damaged the exam's intellectual integrity, the report, A New Level, says.

"Ersatz education will only be challenged by much greater openness, transparency and honesty in the system and by the academic world reclaiming its role," it says. "Universities should be responsible for ensuring that the A-level delivers the academic foundations that they need."

The organisation behind the study, Reform, a non-party think tank whose mission is to set out a better way to deliver public services and economic prosperity, said the present A-level system had created a generation of high-maintenance students who struggled to think for themselves.

"The key change was the wholesale introduction of modular exams in 2000 which saw the quantity and cost of exams doubling," says the report, released last week. "Re-sits have created a group of students who always seek a second chance. Mechanised marking has prevented examiners from rewarding clear flows of argument, originality and flair."

The report calls for action to be taken toreconnect A-levels with their strong academic heritage and for universities to take responsibility for the quality assurance of A-levels.

"Universities should quality assure individual subject A-levels, co-operating with examination boards to develop them," the report says. "Universities should be able to veto exam boards' specifications if they are not sufficiently rigorous or do not require the right content or the development of the correct skills."

Universities UK chief executive Diana Warwick said universities would have to consider the report's proposals carefully.

"The A-level result is still one of the best predictors in measuring skills and knowledge, but is only one of a number of factors that universities take into account when selecting students," she said.

"Others include the personal statement, school recommendation and educational context, interviews in some subjects and relevant skills."

But the report's findings suggest that allsubjects have much more heavily directed questions and marking, and the frequency of tests is preventing the study of off-syllabus material.

"Exams allow candidates less scope for using their own mind, thinking through problems and expressing originality. Subject content is questionable or inappropriate in some areas due to a lack of university input."

Reform asked a team of academics to look at four of the top 10 A-level subjects - English, history, chemistry and maths - and analyse examination papers from 1951 to last year. None was involved in the setting or marking of exams.

The group also interviewed heads of department and admissions tutors from a range of universities to establish how well A-levels prepared students for further study.

"The most important change in exams over the period 1951-2008 is that sitting a mathematics A-level paper now is more like using a sat-nav system than reading a map," University of London statistics professor RA Bailey told the report's authors.

"If you read a map to get from A to B, you remember the route and learn about other things on the way. If you use a sat-nav you do neither of those things. The questions inthe 2008 paper are heavily structured in this way and the result is that students will retain very little knowledge and develop very little understanding."

The report found that specific changes in the nature of A-levels had turned the qualification into a series of limited and discrete challenges rather than overall analysis of a subject.

"The result is the creation of qualifications that have the same superficial contents but an ersatz version of deep academic study," it says.

With the introduction of mechanised marking students were now examined for meeting prescriptive criteria and reproducing what the examiner was looking for, not for demonstrating a high level of skills.

The report found there was nothing to be gained from looking beyond the checklist of assessment objectives, or thinking originally.

"Markers' judgment is no longer considered necessary or even desirable."

Might explain some teachers' dissatisfaction with the context in which they work.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 12:29 PM

It's two and half years since I took early retirement. We moved from a busy town life, bought a house on Orkney islands, paid off the mortgage and everything else. We owe not a penny. I earn just over a quarter of my old salary. We love it.Sure money is tight but I get supply work every so often when I get the chance to go back into the classroom and meet eager faces who want to learn. Make no mistake, I loved my job. I hated the long hours, every Sunday taken up with planning no matter what, most nights an hour or two,the last days of the term holiday working a fever pitch to plan,writing reports, case conference reports, rushing round to do the parent bit and take my kids to dance, acting, singing, scouts etc etc. BUT that was nearly always made up for by the kid that "switched on the light" when they knew they knew something.By watching a kid that I'd know for years grow into a young adult, becoming responsible. By watching kids grow in stature when they achieved something new or more complex.The system stinks, no matter what the uninformed say. This scheme, that scheme, new this new that, inspections, assessments, self-assessments, whole school development plans, mission statements, stakeholder statements, etc etc. It has not one jot to do with teaching.It's just words and someone elses agenda. I loved teaching and getting the best for and from my kids is the most important thing.

But, I wouldn't swop the quality time I have had in the last few years for anything. To do what we liked, what we wanted, when we wanted. Mrs viking and I have been together for twenty five years, we enjoy every day together. Maybe not doing very much, knocking around the garden, reading, walking the dog, playing music, what ever we want.

Any teacher that escapes from the system goes for it in my view. I taught special needs for 30 years, complex abused and abusing children, druggies and prossies, muggers,buggers and thieves for 15 years. It was the greatest fun I have ever had.The last 15 years they were a bit less complex but with different special needs, some of them terminal. Unless you have been where I've been, you wouldn't know what the job involved. But of all the things that made it hard, the endless changes, the shifting goal posts, the inspection process etc spoilt it. I've seen good teachers loose all the faith in themselves during the inspection process. I've seen practitioners who are really poor teachers and failures sitting in judgement on good teachers. Crazy.

You can always find children who need you if you look hard enough. So quitting teaching isn't the end, it's not your failure, it's a new beginning.


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Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Rowan
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 06:54 PM

Precisely.

And some of us get out of the education system but still practise the craft of, and enjoy, teaching.

Cheers, Rowan


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