Pear Tree Inn Southampton

Subject: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: growler
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 05:14 PM

Anyone remember the Folk Club in the Pear Tree in the sixties. I remember seeing McColl and Seeger, Maddy Prior and Tim Hart and many others

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 05:47 PM

Are you sure it wez 'The Pear Tree'?

Aah remember gannin' to a folk club at 'The Bay Tree' in town in the mid sixties

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: RTim
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 06:59 PM

Certainly the Bay Tree (opposite the So'ton Tech. College and serving Gales beers) was the venue for The Focsle Folk Music Club run by John Edgar Mann and John Paddy Brown in the early 1970's. I was a resident at that time with Dave Williams, Steve & Cheryl Jordan, Geoff Jerram. A wonderful club with great guests every week.

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 07:48 PM

Yes - it was the Bay Tree. Saw Shirley Collins there. The pub survived until quite recently but was pretty derelict last time I called in to the University (yes, it's now a university, not a tech. college any more)

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: ossonflags
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 07:40 AM

Yeh I remember that one,saw Alex Campbell there i think about 1969/70 ish.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: ossonflags
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 07:41 AM

Was there a folk club out at Shirley about the same time?

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 08:43 AM

I remember an earlier club, the Balladeer, which was somewhere near the University (the older unversity). Saw Hedy West, and the McPeakes there.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: RTim
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 09:05 AM

There was a club at what I call Shirley Pond,(At junction of Terborba? Way, Redbridge Hill, etc) on the corner opposite the Old Hatched House pub as you go up the hill to Shirley High Street- but I can't remember what either the club or pub was called, and I only seem to remember going there once. It was no way near as good as the Focsle.
Their only real rivals at the time were The Cutty Wren at Hythe and then way down to Bournemouth for the traditional based Wessex on Fridays or The Free Express on Sundays.
There was also the club at Christchurch run by Alan White (What was that pub called?)were I used to sing as I was on of the original Twynham Morris that was centred there. The courtyard and club room (with its pole in the middle) was a venue during The Christchurch Folk Festival. for years.

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 10:06 AM

Growler once told me he saw the Chapmen there supporting someone else, and they were very (he said) impressive.


Anyone else remember them? If so, tell me what they were like, and I'll tell you why I want to know!

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 10:37 AM

The Balladeer was in the Bassett Hotel - just remembered. The Wessex was our club, originally the Bournemouth and Poole Folk Song Club and started in 1964 by the Biddles (me, Liz Heaslip and Don Morgan)and Robin Whittlestone.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: growler
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 01:51 PM

Sorry, it was the 'Bay Tree', the club running in Shirley, at that time, called itself 'The Anvil Folk Club

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 05:30 PM

Blacksmiths Arms in Shirley every Monday,had the Funario Folk Club hosted usually by the "Funario Folk Three" memory says it comprised Brian (Crabbe) Neville-Lee, Robin Parker and another. Other notables included John Murfitt & Pat McMillan, John Heslop etc. And of course "Ian T. Weekes, Folk Singer"the man who introduced me to Folk music ("what music?" "Folk music!" was the conversation as I recall.
Ah yes the Cutty Wren Hythe! How long have we got I feel a page coming on...Actually started by Dave Brittain ( where is he now?) in The Drummond in Hythe village.It moved to the Hythe Hotel in Frost Lane. It was about here I got involved and sufffice to say I learned the ropes of organising by helping Rod Ferguson sail the good old Cutty. Later on after a few changes and a move to still the best facilities of any folk club, ever in the history of time, Ron Kelly joined the team. Residents at the time included Rick Keeling, Anne and Steve Mitchel Bill and SYlia Rogers, Mo Thomas and of course thye irrepresible Rog Carmen.
That's enough for now, I've come all over uneccesary.

Andy
These notes came straight off the top of my head so there will be gaps and ommissions galore.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 05:33 PM

Ooh Ooh Ooh , forgot to say that the Funario changed to the Anvil after a short intermission.
The Fo'cs'l'e, they had all three apostrophes in those days, was there before all and is still going strong now.
A.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 06:28 PM

Aah wez resident MC at 'The Fo'c's'le for a fdw years (followin g the admirable Brian Hooper: Terry Gregory (RIP) was the organiser and we met at 'The Joiners' in St Mary's.

It was a student pub and also attracted a few 'low-lifes' who made a lot of racket in the main bar.

It was eventually taken over by an asshole pub manager who moved us out at an hour's notice stating that the 'folk crowd were intimidating his regulars'!!!

We moved about a bit and the club is now run by the lovely Jane and equally lovely Trevor (SCoFF Webmeister) and is a lovely and welcoming club

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 06:43 PM

Hythe? I made my solo debut there, c1965, but it was at the 'Black Seagull.' Was this the name of the pub or the club?

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: RTim
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 07:02 PM

When I started going to the Cutty Wren in Hythe in the very early 1970's it was in Frost Lane at the ??? Hotel - Andy Jackson will remember, as he was there at the same time as me. The hotel is now called The Fountain Court, but damned if I can remember the old name. Maybe I should go hunt out the LP the residents made (Called Frost Lane), but don't really know where it is!

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 08:00 PM

Hi Tim,

The Hotel was called the Hythe Hotel in the early days, I remember we had to roll back the massive carpet every club night and roll it back again at the end of the evening.
But the name Don Stewart comes to me as the manager as does Stewart Lodge Hotel., and then Westcliffe Hall Hotel. I still think they were all the same building.
I the latter years of the club, before it's move to Totton, we had all the downstairs rooms for the sole use of the club. Our own entry door round the back, a seperate Bar, Tune up/Geen room, toilets of course, and even a small kitchen. The club room was L shaped but big enough to squeeze over 200 on many occasions.
Guest Terry: The Black Seagull rimngs bells although it was before my time.
Careful chaps....this is the kind of thread that blows away a lot of cobwebs and starts books being written.
I saw a copy of Frost Lane sell on Ebay for over £70 a few months ago.

(We still have the master tapes.)

Andy

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 08:02 PM

Anyway, back to the Bay Tree. Does anyone else remember the wall at the top of the stairs. Absolutely covered in autographs by many, many jazz music greats and not a few from Folk. It was painted over by the new, caring, Landlord and I presume long since destroyed.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 08:39 PM

Blacksmith's Arms, Shirley, on Mondays, Fo'c'sle on Wednesdays and Balladeer on Fridays, both at the Bassett Hotel.
Drummond Arms, Hythe, for the Cuty Wren, then there was another club in East Steet and the University Folk Club at the University, Sundays.
Also there was the Waterfront at Woolston, which mover following the pub having caught fire.
And does anyone remember the Wishing Well coffee bar, firs in St. Mary Street then later in Onslow Road? Run by a Nick Somebody-or-other and open late until very early (or late) in the morning. Excellent coffee, folk music on the stereo unless we were all singing, and a lot of lovely customers, many of whom named above.
BTW, Brian Hooper taught me French at Taunton's School!

Colyn.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 05:21 AM

We are gradually adding so much interesting info here, although some contradictory that I think the time has come for a new thread something like."Old Southampton Area Folk Clubs. Or even early SCOFF clubs, because most of us travelled the clubs contained in the Bournemouth - Salisbury - Portsmouth Triange.. I we get the right title it could be a very interesting thread. I don't know if Joe and/or his clones combine threads from here to kick start the new thread but it could be good.

Andy

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 05:39 AM

Andy - yes we all went to clubs other than our own, although the geography varies. Those of us who were Bournemouth based seldom went further east than Southampton, but were regular visitors to Dorchester, Yeovil and even Exeter. Bournemouth (i.e. the Wessex) was, I think, the only club that belonged to both SCOFF and the South West's version. Meetings of the latter were held at Halsway (under the auspices of Bill Rutter) and rtegular attenders were the Journeymen from exeter, the Songwainers from Cheltenham, Ted Poole from Swindon, the Yetties from Yeovil (club) and the Biddles from Bournemouth.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 06:07 AM

OOPS! it's getting bigger all the time. How about Southern Folk Clubs UK. for a thread ? I just have the feeling that this thread has the wrong pub name and we fell upon it by idle curiosity based on Southampton.

Andy

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: growler
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 06:38 AM

Who was the resident at the Bay Tree, a big bloke, who regularly sang the best rendition of 'Shoals of Herring' I have ever heard

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: ossonflags
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 06:54 AM

I remember him!!! he was a big fat youth and he had a lovely trained tenor voice.never heard him sing out other than "Shoals of Herring" though

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 11:31 AM

Hmm, no-one remembers "The Chapmen"?

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: growler
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 03:16 PM

I do remember the name, but can't for the life of me, recall seeing them. ( It was 40 years ago, afterall )

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 07:20 AM

Sorry to hi-jack this thread, but I have a question that some of you might be able to answer.

Can anyone remember a folk club in Swaythling, nr Southampton, in the late 1960s? I used to play there as a regular for a while (in 1968-9), but for the life of me I can't remember the name of the pub or much else, come to that. It was one of a group of 4 folk clubs I used to play at - I think they were all organised by the same guy, whose name I also forget. The other 3 clubs were in Basingstoke, Fleet and Hook (not that it helps).

Can anyone remember any of these clubs? The B'stoke one is the one I remember best, because I lived near there at the time. It was in the Hop Leaf Hotel (more like a pub really) in the (old) town centre, before they built that modern shopping mall.

As for the other 3, I can't remember any details such as the pub names. Any help / memories would be welcome.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 08:51 AM

Well, Simon, that's not what you told me before: but you had had additional fluids to refresh the brain cells.

Ah well, c'est la vie (ou peut etre la mort).

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,John Paddy Browne
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 07:50 AM

Been watching this correspondence with interest and amusement from my hermitage in deepest Hampshire. Someone mentioned the idea of writing a sort of history of the Southampton/Hampshire/southern Counties folk club scene -not a new idea but one that would at least record the presence of a marvellous collection of visitors to these clubs: MacColl and Seeger, Bill Clifton, Rory and Alex McEwen, The Ian Campbell Folk Group, Bob Davenport, The McPeake Family, Cyril Tawney, Roy Bailey, Sydney Carter, Steve Benbow, Louis Killen, Shirley Collins, Isla Cemeron, The Yetties - oh, dozens more - and that's only The Fo'c'sle.
And then there are the many dozens of talented "residents" who were the backbone of the local club scene.
The club had its genesis at the old Balladeer Club at the Bassett Hotel when John Edgar Mann and I formed The Fo'c's'le (yes, three apostrophes)which opened its doors at a packed Bay Tree, New Road, Southampton on Friday 10 May 1963. The local police and Fire authorities all enjoyed their official visits so much that they turned a blind eye to the over-crowding and the possibility of the room collapsing into the public bar below. MacColl, in his autobiography, recalls the place being so packed that there wasn't enough oxygen for him to light a match.
But enough of this. A lot of those names are no longer with us. Is there sufficient interest among today's less populous folk club fraternity to warrant a book of stories, anecdotes, and photographs (and God knows, there are plenty) to warrant a good little local book? I'd buy one.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Scrump
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 09:29 AM

I asked this before, in another thread about the Southampton area, but does anyone remember a club in Swaythling, near there? I played there several times as a 'resident' although I lived near Basingstoke then, and used to get the train down. I can't remember the name of the club, what pub it was in, or anything else much! Pretty sure John Isherwood played there though.

C'mon, somebody must remember it?! Or did I dream it all?

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,JPB
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 04:19 PM

The Crescendo (!) was held at the Hampton Park Hotel, Swaythling. It was running in 1965, but I don't know for how long beforehand or afterwards.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 04:23 PM

I know Miskin Man has the old Cuttty Wren model in my old lounge.


Scooby

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Crabbe
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 04:33 PM

Just for the sake of completeness and harking back to the Anvil, Blacksmith's Arms, Shirley (previously the Fennario, at a pub in East Street the name of which escapes me). The three people notionally running the club were me (now happily settled in Worcester), Robin Parker (now happily settled in Norfolk) and Jon Heslop (now happily settled in Cornwall) - I say notionally, because where would we have been without my wife Nicky who sold more raffle tickets than you could shake a stick at in those days? Come to think of it she still does.
Jon, Robin and I performed as "Omen" and then later when Jon dropped out, Robin and I became "Volume II". Jon still writes and sings and so do I, not sure about Robin.
I love John Paddy's idea about a history of Southampton folk clubs and would be plleased to contribute to same if anyone wants to pick up the baton.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: growler
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 04:59 PM

I seem to remember being at tha Blacksmiths Arms, when Tim Hart and Maddie Prior, where recording 'The Horn of The Hunt' for a radio show, and a lady, obviously the aforesaid Nicky, trying to sell rafle tickets, without her voice sounding on tape.
Having deserted Hampshire for Kent in 1972, I would love to see John Paddy's idea, come to fruition

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 05:38 PM

Hi John-Paddy and Crabbe. Yes, Yes, lets get a book of the early Southampton folk scene onto the starting blocks. With mudcat etc we have a wonderful gathering device we could have only dreamed of all those years ago.
I have been brushing the dust off a whole batch of 1/4 tapes from that era, try these names for size.
Dave Brittain, Roger Carmen, Ron Vardey, Mo Thomas. Mo is still around I know but never when I make one of my visits down south. Paul Mc Neil and Linda Peters, Tim and Maddy, the list goes on.
I even have a recording of the night the Anvil reopened!! Exiles etc. JEM of course has memories and tales enough to fill the second volume after JPB.
Great to hear from you both,

Andy

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 05:40 PM

If it was to be about Hampshire clubs, then don't forget Bournemouth. We were a Hampshire club until 1974 when we suddenly found ourselves in Dorset. Probably for the better, though. It's a superior county.....says he, who was (and is)from the Poole side of the border.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 07:41 PM

Helen Woodall

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 05:47 AM

Helen Woodall - still around, part of the Old Pull and Push band. In the 'olden days' she was part of a duo with Richard Thrift called......Richard and Helen.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Scrump
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 06:52 AM

Another bit of reminiscence of artists on the Hants folk scene in the late 1960s, that I hope someone will be able to help with:

There was a duo, two guys, who used to play bluegrass-type music. One was tall and thin, with curly black hair and a beard, and played 5-string banjo; and the other was shorter and more stocky, with red hair and beard. The shorter guy used to sing with a pretty good tenor voice, IIRC.

I also saw the tall guy appear as a solo act on his own, but I can't remember seeing the other guy on his own. I don't know whether they split up as a duo at that time, or what.

I saw them several times in the clubs I used to frequent (mentioned elsewhere), around 1968-9.

Does this description ring any bells? Can anyone name these guys, or remember anything else about them?

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: RTim
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 07:01 AM

Helen Woodall was my singing partner too for a number of years until I moved to Oxfordshire in 1972.
We were also, with are spouses, founding members of Twynham Morris of Christchurch, along with Alan White, who used to run the Folk Club in the same very small space we practiced.
I can't remember the name of the pub - can anyone help me - and what ever happened to Alan? I heard he was helping at one time to run the campsite at Sidmouth and that he may? be now involved with the Wareham singing sessions?
I haven't seen him for well over 30 years!

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 07:07 AM

Alan's still around, still living in the same house in Parkstone/Newtown. I've seen him a few times recently although I think the last was at Ringwood in January 2006 when Martin Carthy was the guest. I may also have seen him at Sidmouth in August but I'm not certain - met a lot of people there that I know/used to know.

Tim - do you remember John Edmonds and Jimmy Melville? They were Christchurch based.

Scrump - the tall, thin banjo playing one sounds like Richard Thrift.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: RTim
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 07:13 AM

Regarding Banjo playing, etc. two-some - Do you mean The Dixie Ramblers? or at least some of them (there were 3 of them whose names I can't remember)?
Or are you thinking of Murfitt & McMillan who used to play at The Focsle?

Terry - I don't remember either Jihn Edmonds or Jimmy Melville - what did they play?

Best - Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 07:28 AM

Tim - John Edmonds (Dorset accent) had a good voice and a liking for Irish material. Brilliant harmony singer - his harmonies were almost new melodies. Jimmy Melville was Scots and his preference was towards Country music. They were a good duo, though.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Broadside Man
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 08:05 AM

I am happy to report that Alan White is a live and well and indeed running the campsite, again, and a lot more at Sidmouth.

Alan also took on the Wareham Wail after Wareham Folk Harvest finished in the early nineties. The Wail first took place at Stoborough school before moving to a site just outside Wareham at Worget. The wail under Alan has now moved to Verwood.

Terry, I last saw John Edmonds a few years ago. We both worked for BT at the time and John had formed a little band that played regularly at the Catherine Wheel just outside Christchurch. John was kind enough to come over to East stoke for a fund raising event i was running for Greenpeace.

Geoff Payne

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 08:21 AM

Hi Geoff - just to let you know John has moved to France! I suggested to him that he and I do a spot together at one of the Breton festivals.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Scrump
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 08:29 AM

Regarding Banjo playing, etc. two-some - Do you mean The Dixie Ramblers? or at least some of them (there were 3 of them whose names I can't remember)?
Or are you thinking of Murfitt & McMillan who used to play at The Focsle?

Unfortunately, the names you give don't ring any bells. Some of them may be correct, it's just that I can't remember at all what they were called, although I saw them several times and played on the same 'bill' as them on many occasions. I never went to the Foc'sle. The clubs I played at were in Basingstoke (at the Hop Leaf Hotel), Swaythling, Hook and Fleet (i.e mainly in N Hants, except the Swaythling one). As I said in another post, I think those 4 clubs were all run by the same guy, whose name I also can't remember - all I remember about him was that he wasn't a performer himself, and used to wear dark glasses all the time (even indoors in a dingy folk club). Either he thought it was cool, or he had an eye problem!

If anyone can remember this guy, or anything else, I'd be grateful.

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: bubblyrat
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 09:27 AM

I played with Helen & The Old Pull & Push in Studland a few years back--It was a dance for a youth-group called " Crusaders ", they were unbelievably energetic, & wanted to dance all night !! We collapsed around midnight, and the youngsters all dashed down to the beach for a swim ! The folk-club that I played in ,in Christchurch, up until 2 years ago, was in the "Barn Bar " in the courtyard of the "George " on the roundabout, up near the Priory. Once a year, there would be a big "session" in the courtyard, a remnant of the defunct "Christchurch Folk Festival " --A shadow of its former self !!
Part of the "Barn Bar" has now been turned into a rather cissy gift shop, although at the time that I left, they were still having bands playing there on friday nights---Murphy"s Lore , Mary Jane, Lady Winwoods Maggot et al, but the actual "sessions " are now held in "The Ship ", opposite the Regent Centre. Ask Mudcatter "Lilly",-- she knows more about Christchurch than anyone else alive today !! (That is a compliment, by the way !! )

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: RTim
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 09:55 AM

Yes - The George, we used to have the folk club and our morris practices there in the "Barn" - even with a pole in the middle of the floor.
Helen Woodall and I were filmed by the BBC at the 1971 or 72 Christchurch Folk Fest in the courtyard you mention, and a friend gave me a copy of the film on DVD last year. It is great to look around the audience and see who you remember.

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: Scrump
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 10:18 AM

Bah! I went to the trouble of finding this thread and reviving it, to ask about these two guys I remember, and it's been hijacked by these queries about other artists! Still that's Mudcat for you! Maybe I'll try again in a few days... :-)

Subject: RE: Pear Tree Inn Southampton
From: RTim
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 12:02 PM

I think this thread started as a question about a folk club in Southampton - only later was it highjacked as an identification question - which some have tried to answer!