Origins: Hand of God

Subject: Origins: Hand of God
From: jazzhistoria
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 10:52 AM

Does anybody know the origin of "Hand of God", recorded by Mahalia J?

Ingemar

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 05:51 PM

Chess/Checker Gospel Album Discography mentions a song of that name being recorded:

LP*-10028 - The Hand Of God - Rev. O.M. Hoover [?]

But I dunno if it is the same song or, if so, who recorded first.

===========

TIME LIFE'S: SONGS OF INSPIRATION Contains THREE DISCS with 36 tracks, Disc 1 including:

7. The Hand Of God Bill Kenny and the Ink Spots with The Ray Charles


But again-- same song?? Recorded when? From what source? I dunno.

Sorry about the all-caps-- pasted from Ebay.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: Barry Finn
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 12:47 AM

the hand of god was originally attached to his arm

Barry

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: Peace
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 12:56 AM

The song title is "Hands of God", I think.

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 12:56 AM

Welcome to the Mudcat, Ingemar. I am sure someone will come along who may know more about this for you. Mudcat almost always has an answer, it just may take a little time.

All the best,

kat

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: Peace
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 01:05 AM

One of her records--now available on CD--has her doing the song in 1953 or 1954. See here.

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: Peace
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 01:18 AM

Earliest Jackson thing I can find is on a site that references her Apollo years and she did the song in 1953.

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: Peace
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 01:25 AM

I'm hitting dead ends.

This is gonna take Q or Joe or Jim.

I can't find the lyrics and subsequently locating history on the song isn't likely.

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 03:40 PM

This is gonna take Q or Joe or Jim.

Or Masato Sakurai. I know it's not in my collection of thousands of gospel songs and/or spirituals.

Or-- if I could hear the song I'd be able to make an educated guess about its possible origins as a spiritual. There were a good many that never made it into print, that surfaced at one point or another into commercial culture as memories from songs an elder had sung that had been passed down through generations from slave times. Equally possible is that it was a "created" song, that came into being well after slave times-- that had been inspired by the textual patterns or tonality of spirituals.

And there is no way of knowing if it is either or both, for sure.

A lot of black gospel came into being via improvisation and was never written or formally arranged, but was just "around" among the number of musicians needed to cut a track. From there, many songs circulated around in various forms among church and concert artists until MAYBE someone claimed copyright at some point in its development.

Wouldn't it be great if we could just ask Mahalia? Unfortunately, artists' accounts of song sources can be somewhat apocryphal, or composited, or misremembered. If you found an old intereview where she told all about it-- it might only be a story she decided should be told, a sort of sermon if you will.

It's tantalizing to know there are several recordings by the same name. We just can't know, at this point, if they are the same song and, if so, who heard whom do it (when), and learned it, and folk-processed it into their own simlar or very different version. That kinda is one of the main hallmarks of gospel music, go figure. :~)

Another hallmark of gospel is that one gets to just enjoy it, and not worry too much about all that provenance stuff. :~) Sometimes the only answer we can find is going to lead to, "I don't know, but someday I might learn more." There have been stories of singers doing songs with that kind of intro, and having someone come along eventually who can add some ideas about the song. We had a thread up just last week, about that, from the Steve Miller band song including a phrase about the Pompitous of Love.

Music can be..... so messy. Messy is not alwasy bad! :~)

~Susan

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: fat B****rd
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 03:42 PM

To many England supporters the "Hand of God" belongs to a certain South American football player.

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: Peace
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 03:45 PM

Right you are, WYSIWYG. Or Masato. (How did I neglect to think of him? The man is brilliant. Please write it off to too much aluminium in my diet.)

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: jazzhistoria
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:58 AM

Mahalia sings "Hand of God" but title on the CD is "Hands of God". Lyrics start "Put your hand into the hand of God..." I am preparing the liner notes for our next CD and I need info. I´m pretty sure this is a "created" song, probably from the 20th century.

Among others we will also record "Meeting in the air" and "Yes Lord, I´m crippled" and I have asked for info about those tunes, too. Someone answered that Jelly Roll Morton recorded Yes Lord...!?!? When???? Never heard!

Ingemar Wågerman
Gota River Jazzmen (a New Orleans style jazz band from Gothenburg, Sweden)
http://listen.to/gotariver

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: Alba
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 12:29 PM

Q ~ Masato ~ Jim ~ Joe .....
We have a Swedish Member that has a question!

Välkomnande Ingemar.
Here is a link to the Gota River Jazzmen's Website: Clicky here

Jude (who thinks Gothenburg is a really beautiful City!)

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 01:31 PM

Does anyone have the cd set "Legend: The Best of Mahalia Jackson" ?
"Hand of God" is track 11 on disc 1 of 2.
Lyrics would help.

There are several 'Hand of God' possibilities, including "Touched by the hand of God," "Seated at the right hand ...," etc.

On a note for the cds above, someone (or group?) called Lafayette is credited for the Mahalia Jackson song.

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: Peace
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 07:00 PM

According to the track selection list on Gold Collection , the title of the song is "HandS of God". I have seen that on two other CDs advertised on the www.

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: Peace
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 07:06 PM

So now I am very confused. What is the song title?

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 07:30 PM

Checking cds on allmusic, 18 cds of Mahalia Jackson list title as "Hands of God" Five of these list the composer as Lafayette and nine list composer as Mahalia Jackson.

Only one Mahalia Jackson cd (the one I posted) gives "Hand of God."

Peace wins this one hands down.

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: Peace
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 07:31 PM

Or hand down. Sure would be great to find the lyrics.

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 07:34 PM

I imagine Ingemar has those already?

~Susan

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 05:44 AM

To many England supporters the "Hand of God" belongs to a certain South American football player.
Too right, fB :-(

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: jazzhistoria
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 03:33 AM

I found the sheet music - on Ebay!! (Unfortunately too late to buy it!) The title is "The Hand of God", subtitle "Leadeth Me". The composer is Ollie Lafayette (no other information).

The first verse (from Mahalia´s recording):

"Put your hand into the Hand of God
Let him lead you when the road is rough to trot (?)
If it´s going rough (?), kneel down and say a prayer
Still the hand of God is everywhere"

Ingemar

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: jazzhistoria
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 03:59 AM

I found another lot on ebay with more info:

This lot consists of 8 separate, 4-page pieces of sheet music. Each are written by Ollie Lafayette and published by Aikens & Lafayette Publishers, Chicago, Ill., copyright 1952-62. The titles are, Don't Forget To Pray, God's Calling You, Where Jesus Is, It Is Heaven, I'll Go, The Hand Of God, I've Got To Keep Running, Fill Me Lord I Want To Be Thine and God Will Bless You. ---

Does anybody have more information about this Ollie Lafayette?

Ingemar Wågerman
Gota River Jazzmen
Gothenburg, Sweden
http://listen.to/gotariver

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 01:29 PM

Ingemar, that helps. The 'Lafayette' listed as composer is Ollie Lafayette, a gospel composer. Also the title definitely is "Hand of God."
The Martin and Morris Gospel Sheet Music Collection, Chicago Public Library, Contains sheet music published by Aikens and Lafayette.
"All That I Am" published in 1945. Composer Margaret Aikens. Can't find out much about them.

Digression-
The most popular 'Hand in the hand' song was written by Canadian Gene McLellan in 1971; a hit for Elvis Pressley among others.

PUT YOUR HAND IN THE HAND
Put your hand in the hand of the man who stilled the water
Put your hand in the hand of the man who calmed the sea
Take a look at yourself and you can look at others differently
Put your hand in the hand of the man from Gallilee.
etc.

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 01:42 PM

Ingemar, do you need another pair of ears on transcribing that lyric? I'd be happy to help; you have my email address.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 01:51 PM

That is a great find. Is it possible we're dealing with two different songs? I have heard neither. Question then is when/how did the title--assuming it is the same song--get changed by so many recording companies?

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: jazzhistoria
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 02:08 PM

The first line of the lyrics "Put your hand into the hand of God" was originally from a poem "The gate of the year".

It was written in 1908 by Minnie Louise Haskins, an American lecturer at the London School of Economics, who wrote as a hobby. It was a favourite of Queen Elizabeth the late Queen Mother, who showed it to her husband King George VI. He included it in his famous Christmas message broadcast in 1939 at the beginning of the Second World War. After the King's death the Queen Mother had it engraved on bronze plaques on the entrance to the King George VI Memorial Chapel, Windsor, where both are now interred. It was also read at the funeral service of the Queen Mother.

Read it: http://www.geocities.com/piers_clement/gate.html

Susan: I will send you a file later.
Peace: The CD title reads "Hands" but the lyrics and the sheet music read "Hand". I don´t know when the wrong title first appeared. Maybe someone did not want it to be mixed up with Maradona´s "Hand of God"?? (Just kidding...)

Ingemar

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 02:35 PM

Or the work by Rodin. Picture here.

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 03:13 PM

Peace, there could easily be MANY songs by this title, that would all be different songs. See Spirituals permathread essay about origins and titling complications-- it applies equally to just about any and all forms of gospel.

Ingemar-- I'll be looking for it!

~Susan

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 04:41 PM

There's a Hopson Family version of "Hand of God" in WFMU Sinner's Crossroads archived show of Oct 20 2005, and (also at WFMU), a Witchman ("artist") song "Hand of God" from their Heavy Traffic album on The Push Bin with Lou, Nov 27, 2004 show.

The Hopsons recorded for the Jewel label, but this one is on the HSC label (HSE?) that also recorded them, from the 60's-70's. It starts:

REFRAIN:
I say the hand of God is leading me,
Hand of God is leading me.
Everywhere I go, wherever I may be,
I see the Hand of God is leading me.


I'll transcribe more from it later. It has verses retelling Bible stories (such as Daniel in the lion's den), when the hand of God was leading whoever is in the story. The Mahalia verse above might be one of the verses they're singing. It will be interesting to hear if they are relatively the same tune. Anyway, this is about 35 minutes into the archived 1-hour show. The DJ has a few words about it before the song starts.

IMO the Witchman piece is hardly music at all, but the short piece of "text" from it I listened to comes at about 3 hours and 14 minutes in. I recorded about a minute; I did not listen long enough to determine whether I was at the end or the start of the "song." They seem to be ranting, "Can't you see the Hand of God?" Or maybe "I can see..." Man, that is some UGLY stuff.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: jazzhistoria
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 03:07 AM

Yes, there are many different songs with the phrase "Hand(s) of God" in the title!

"Hand of God": ASCAP 14 songs, BMI 46, CCLI 29.
"Hands of God": ASCAP 0, BMI 2, CCLI 29 (Hand + Hands included)

Altavista sound search: 387 hits (Hand + Hands). Many of them are sermons, but there are also many other kinds of mucic (many rock tunes). I have not found any other versions of the Ollie Lafayette song yet, but I keep listening…

According to BMI Mahalia Jackson has composed not only Hand of God, but also Amazing Grace, Down By the Riverside, Everytime I feel the Spirit, His Eye is on the Sparrow, Just a Closer Walk, to name just a few. This is of course nonsense. She was the performer, not the composer.

Ingemar
Gota River Jazzmen
http://listen.to/gotariver

Subject: Gospel Text Editing
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 08:27 AM

Mahalia came to visit me early this morning. :~)

I can work on this more later, but here's one thing cleared up:

Put your hand into the Hand of God
Let him lead you when the road is rough to trot

I'm pretty sure that what you heard as "trot" is a word chosen to fit the rhyme, although it is the wrong tense-- TROD. The correct word would be "tread," but it "don't sing right" that way, so she sang "trod." It is a word not used much anymore, so maybe she actually thought it WAS correct; if it is a composed piece maybe the author was the one that made the mistake.

When I haul an old gospel tune out of the past to do it now, I just go right ahead and fix that stuff-- I'm pretty good at catching the meaning and working with that to work with our denomination, where I use them. So I would rewrite that verse if I could not leave it out for whatever reason.

A word that fits (not the best sound to sing) and is the right tense would be PLOD. To use that word I would have to work in some imagery of weariness.... so if I really needed that verse I would look for a way to streamline something about letting Him lead me when I'm weary and can no longer plod. But, if He were leading me, I would not be plodding, I'd be skipping along.

So it's a problem, that verse.... for a typical problem like that I would spend the day letting it swim around in the back of my mind while I did chores, and let the melody run itself through me till my mind solves the text problem because my mind says that I MUST sing that song. But I will try to do it here, in front of you, to show you a bit of how that process goes for me... sometimes I can "catch" the solution while transcribing. I'll let Mahalia's voice pull me along and let the hand of God lead ME.

[reflecting....] Also correct tense and word but still off theologically: Let Him lead you when the weary road you've trod.

Trying again: Let him lead you FROM the weary road you've trod.

There it begins to come. There are many ways I can go, now, with that meaning.... Lead you OFF, or to be in vernacular lead you OUT, lead you PAST, lead you UP THAT weary road...

~Susan

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: jazzhistoria
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 10:54 AM

Susan,

Yes, I felt that"trot" is not an appropriate word! But I also know that "trod" is past or perfect tense for "tread"... Very interesting!!

It is a beautiful tune (we don´t sing on this one, that is I don´t sing at all - our clarinet player does the vocal)!

Ingemar

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 11:09 AM

Yes, it is a beautiful tune, and jazzed up it will be lovely. Do I understand correctly-- that you mean your band does not plan to sing it? You want the lyric just so you can understand the meaning behind what you will play? I do that a lot with offetories and communion music. I may play it without singing it, but in my heart there is the prayer of the meaning as I play.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: jazzhistoria
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 02:01 PM

Susan,

Our band is not a "Christian band", but we play many christian songs -with great respect. We think it is very important to preserve the old songs from our childhood. In Sweden we call people like me "God´s Grandchildren" - my mother played the piano at the Salvation Army, but I am not active and do not belong to any denomination. We have some tuns with vocals, but for us the music is more important.

Ingemar
http://listen.to/gotariver

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: jazzhistoria
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 05:37 PM

I am confused! Susan sent me the Hopson Family version of "Hand of God", which is not at all Mahalia´s "Put your hand itno the hand of God". Mahalia made two recordings, one for Columbia, the other one for Apollo. Are the two songs different?

The subtitle of the Columbia Sheet Music I found on Ebay reads "He Leadeth Me". Unfortunately I have only seen the front page, not the music.

The Hopsons sing "I say the hand of God is leading me!" (Or is ist "he leadeth me"???) If this is the sheet music, Ollie Lafayette did not compose the "Put your hand..." version! Who did???

Ingemar in Gothenburg, Sweden
http://listen.to/gotariver

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 06:04 PM

Ingemar, you want the Ollie Lafayette song that Mahalia Jackson sang. Looks like you will have to get the sheet music through Ebay if it is no longer available from sheet music stores, and you are having difficulty understanding Mahalia Jackson's singing on the recording.

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: jazzhistoria
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 06:09 PM

Q,

I just want to know who wrote the "Hand of God" from Mahalia´s Apollo recording! I need it for the liner notes of our next CD!

Ingemar

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 06:11 PM

Ingemar,

The Hopson song sounds like a song possibly inspired by Mahalia's-- a response in Pentecostal terms-- if we knew the creation date of that one. But it is definitely not "leadeth me" on their version.

The sound on the Mahalia version is fine for me to work with to clarify the text; of course weekends around our house are pretty busy so I haven't worked on it yet, but also you indicated that you didn't plan on singing this one so I have not made it a rush.

Do you actually need the sheet music, or can your band arrange it from ear? Would chords to fit the Mahalia version help you create it?

~Susan

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 07:46 PM

Ollie Lafayette is credited on the Legend: Best of Mahalia Jackson cd. At AMG, Lafayette is credited for the Mahalia Jackson "Hand of God."on this cd. Get it and compare with the Apollo recording you have (Amazon lists it).
Under the title "Hands of God," five credit Lafayette and nine credit Mahalia Jackson.

Apollo is a dead label. In Europe, Apollo records were issued by Vogue; don't know if numbers or content the same as those in N. Am.

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: jazzhistoria
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 03:25 AM

Susan, Q,

We don´t actually need the sheet music for our arrangements - we have heard the tune and we know the melody and the chords. That´s enough! But I collect sheet music and lyrics of all the tunes we have recorded!

I was confused when I saw the subtitle "He leadeth me" on the Columbia sheet music cover - there is no such sentence in the "Put your hand..." version, but a similar sentence "...is leading me" in the Hopson Family version. I have ordered the "Legends" CDs and will compare the two versions.

Ingemar
http://listen.to/gotariver

Subject: Lyr Add: HAND OF GOD (from Mahalia Jackson)
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 09:55 AM

Ingemar,

Below are the words I heard on the recording:



HAND OF GOD

Put your hand into the Hand of God;
Let Him lead you when the road is rough to trod.
If the going rough, kneel down and say a prayer.
Still-a** Hand of God is everywhere.

Put your hand into God loving Hand,
He'll forgive your sins and He will understand.
Though the world forget and there's no one to care,
Stillll' Hand of God is everywhere.

You may have faith in-a everything you've tried,
But remember, He's ever at your side.

Put your hand into God loving Hand,
When a hill too high for tired feet to trod.
Never give up hope, or give in to despair.
Still th' Hand of God is everywhere.


And here is what I would say she means, if it were in "standard" English:

Put your hand into the Hand of God;
Let Him lead you when the road is rough to tread.
If the going [gets] rough, kneel down and say a prayer.
Still *th' [the] Hand of God is everywhere.

Put your hand into God['s] loving Hand,
He'll forgive your sins and He will understand.
Though the world [should] forget and there's no one to care,
Still *th' Hand of God is everywhere.

[bridge, or could be used as refrain]
You may have faith in-a** everything you've tried,
But remember, He's ever at your side.

Put your hand into God['s]*** loving Hand,
When a hill too high for tired feet to tread.
Never give up hope, or give in to despair.
Still *th' Hand of God is everywhere.

-----

* In the last verse you can hear most clearly that she is singing the first sound of the word |the|. In her accent, it is somewhere between a |th| sound a |d| sound. In many spirituals, |the| is given as |de| and often the |de| is mispronounced, by people not familiar with African Amercian speech, as |dee| or |duh| to correspond with the standard English pronunciation |thee| and |thuh.| But actually, we can hear Mahalia teaching us the the |ee| and |uh| part of the word are not even needed and might often have been left out, with just the consonant indicated in a mouth full of a richer heritage.

** The addition of an extra syllable |-a| at the end of a word or |a-| at the beginning of a word is a common way in spirituals and black gospel of making a word more singable across a figure of rhythm or change in pitch, or of smoothing a text around any other musical feature of the tune. The |-uh| sound of it is as Mahalia gives us, and I am not sure there even IS a way to spell that sound phonetically, correctly-- you have to HEAR it as a sort of an accent. I do not know the African speech pattern that one grows out of, but that would likely be the reason for that sweet and full syllable to sound the way it does and for it to be a way of solving that singability problem.

*** The clipping off of consonants is again part of the accent, done in some place but not others for singability and/or emphasis.

-----


It's a beautiful song. The text is a composed one, I would say, more than an authentic, unadulterated spiritual; probably the tune as well. It's a short sermon, actually, as well as an encouragement.

In a church service it would have been the "special" song of the service that comes in the middle at the peak of worship time (maybe called something else; in some churches it's the "special" or the "offertory" or something else). The "special" is where someone has prepared something to present almost concert-style, that will speak to, and speak for, the prayers and feelings of the people gathered at worship. Done solo, chorally, or by a duo, trio, quartet or quintet), they are usually slow and devotional in text and tone, as this one is. They are meant to be done with power, and to invoke power.

A typical response to a "special" done as well as Mahalia does this one would be spontaneous outbursts of ejaculatory prayer; testifying phrases; phrases of praise to God; exclamations of the name of Jesus; speaking in tongues; keening; moaning; raising of hands; weeping; screaming; clapping; falling to the floor; dancing or swaying-- a Pentecostal (ecstatic) outpouring of physical response, prompted by a show-stopper like this song is. Not a secular acclaim for the singer, but a spiritual outpouring released by the perceived power and holiness of the singer.

These phenomena might be followed by people coming forward to the altar or kneeling rail to accept salvation for the first time; extended prayer by the pastor and others over these people; exhortations and pleadings for others to "come to Jesus;" congregants coming forward to join in the prayers over this "saving," and deliverance ministries of casting out demons.

Sometimes, alternatively, the "special" would be followed, instead, by a fast, upbeat piece celebrating the "saved" way of life of the congregation present.

Again, as with the McGee sermon you sent me-- these events would be far more likely to occur in a Pentecostal (AKA "holiness" or "sanctified") church (white or black) than in a mainline denominational church. There might be a "special" in the mainlines, but it would be less "free" in reception in what is generally a more "dignified" setting.

~Susan
(fellow student)

Subject: RE: Origins: Hand of God, origin
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 09:57 AM

PS thanks for the morning with Mahalia!!! revisiting old church friends. I'm going to go make her some coffee, now. :~)

~Susan