a new verb

Subject: a new verb
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 10:11 AM

An acquaintance of mine is directing a performance of Pergolesi's "Stabat Mater" soon as a requirement for an advanced music degree. (Naturally this is a big deal for her.)

I just looked up Pergolesi, read an article, and found this note at the bottom of the article:

"Magpied from a variety of web and paper sources, some contradictory, including the Encyclopedia Britannia and the Catholic Encyclopedia."

Magpied, eh? Now there's a good verb for the era of cut-and-paste.
------
The concert is February 25th, 2007, at 3 pm at St Joseph's RC Church, Shawnee KS. Pergolesi was born in 1710, so I expect Baroque music. It should be good.

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:22 AM

Magpied??? Geeze! Quite a stretch for a clever metaphor. I assume the reference will be missed by 20-40%...

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Bee
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:26 AM

Yes. I get the reference, but many people here wouldn't. For one thing, we have no magpies in this end of the country, so no local knowledge of their habits.

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:30 AM

Well, we wouldn't want "to crow" and its conjugated tenses to get lonely.

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:30 AM

Pastiche?

~S~

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 12:13 PM

"Well, we wouldn't want "to crow" and its conjugated tenses to get lonely."

I'm just waiting for "to ostrich" and "to albatross"

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 12:14 PM

OK, I'll bite - maybe I'm one of the 20%-40% who've missed something then, but is there some significance over and above the magpie's 'thieving' habits that I'm not aware of?

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: MMario
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 12:15 PM

I've seen "ostriching" - for deluding self or hiding from the truth.

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 12:31 PM

Nope, Scrump...I think all it means is "stolen and collected and dumped in a pile"....but it's still an unnecessary and awkward addition to MY narrow way of thinking...

MMario...I should have guessed...thankfully, I missed it... ;^)

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: fat B****rd
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 12:32 PM

Here in the North East of England to be Magpied is to be defeated by Newcastle United Football team.

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: MMario
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 12:34 PM

though since "magpie" is a search engine - it makes as much (or more) sense then "googled"

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 12:34 PM

Just a short step from 'magpie-minded,' (1955) which entered the Oxford English Dictonary in 1985.

We have had 'squirreled' for donkey's years.

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Amos
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 02:42 PM

An online etymological dictionary remarks as follows:
"1605, common European bird, known for its chattering, earlier simply pie; first element from Mag, nickname for Margaret, long used in Eng. proverbial and slang senses for qualities associated generally with women, especially in this case "idle chattering" (cf. Magge tales "tall tales, nonsense," c.1410; also Fr. margot "magpie," from Margot, pet form of Marguerite). Second element, pie, is the earlier name of the bird, from O.Fr. pie, from L. pica "magpie," fem. of picus "woodpecker," possibly from PIE base *pi-, denoting pointedness, of the beak, perhaps, but the magpie also has a long, pointed tail. The birds are proverbial for pilfering and hoarding, can be taught to speak, and have been regarded since the Middle Ages as a bird of ill omen.

"Whan pyes chatter vpon a house it is a sygne of ryghte euyll tydynges." [1507]

Divination by number of magpies is attested from c.1780 in Lincolnshire; the rhyme varies from place to place, the only consistency being that one is bad, two are good. "

Thus magpie-ing has a nuance of collecting stacks of idle chatter in dribs and drabs,which certainly describes the practice for which it was used! :D The problem with it is that "to pie" has nevert been an honored verb in English, used almost never except by whipped-cream guttersnipes. So it has no template to know how to form its persons and tenses. Let us pie? Once pied, never un-pied? Ugly, isn't it?

A

A

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 03:10 PM

As long as pie-eyed doesn't become a verb...

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Rowan
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 04:48 PM

Nicely done, Amos. In Oz, what we call a magpie is a quite different species of bird, and the only stuff it collects is made into (sometimes large) nests; I've seen all sorts of strange things in our magpie nests.

But its carolling is far and away something much more than describable as idle chatter. Many years ago, some Pom wonk described the singing of Australian birds ("all" of them, mind you) as merely harsh squawking. He'd obviously never woken to the sounds of magpies, which means he'd probably never been in any part of SE Oz.

Leaving aside such maestri as lyrebirds, some researchers have taped entire "Dawn Chorus" sets from various forested places in our east. A dawn chorus consists of the opening territorial calls of all the species in the area. The researchers found that all the subsequent calls were harmonically related to the pitch of the first call for the day, irrespective of species. They even altered the pitch of the tapes they played to initiate the dawn chorus and found that all the (real) birds subsequently altered the pitches of their calls to fit harmonically with the first caller.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 05:08 PM

Could be worse Kat..could be magpie-eyed....I mean where did you get those eyes?

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 05:34 PM

the Magpie is holarctic (northern hemisphere, round the globe) in distribution. More common in western U. S. and Canada, but has spread.
The Lewis and Clark Expedition (1804-1806) collected some live animals and birds, but the only ones that made it back east when the Expedition returned, live, were a magpie and a prairie dog.

Magpies in our area help keep the dogs and cats entertained. A wonderful, much-maligned bird.

I have a woodblock print showing the Japanese subspecies, which is somewhat more iridescent.

As noted above, the OZ bird is not the same.

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 05:49 PM

theme song is of course...

"The Thieving Magpie" - Rossini

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Dave Hunt
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 08:23 PM

But another nuance of Magpied is the pied bit - as in two coloured

Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source
pied

1382, as if it were the pp. of a verb form of M.E. noun pie "magpie" (see pie (2)), in ref. to the bird's black and white plumage. Earliest use is in reference to the pyed freres, an order of friars who wore black and white. Also in pied piper (1845, in Browning's poem based on the Ger. legend; used allusively from 1942).
Dave

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:19 PM

LOL, Georgiansilver!

Rowan, that's very interesting about the Dawn Chorus, thanks for posting it!

There are also pie-bald horses and it doesn't have a thing to do with their nether regions.**bg**

HERE'S a black-billed magpie in a town I lived in once, Pitkin, CO.

And, here is a ten second Snippet of one which drives my cats nuts.

Q, they really are very entertaining. Magpies, blue jays and camp robbers are some of my very favourites.

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Jim Lad
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 03:40 AM

Some folks will swallow anything. Got to duck out now before I get goosed. Pretty cocky eh?
"some Pom wonk" ...   Seems to me that some English Gentleman has just been ozzed. Not very nicely either.

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 04:18 AM

I always thought the "pie" part of the name referred to its plumage, being a striking mixture of black, white and blue (for the British/European magpie, anyway). "Pie" refers to a mixture or medley, which is where the word for the food (beloved by Wiggin residents ;-)) came from. Hence "Pied Piper" (from his coat of many different colours). "Piebald" means many-coloured, too.

Not sure what the "mag" bit means though (?) - anyone know?

Although they are handsome birds, we consider them a nuisance, because they steal the eggs and young birds from nests (blackbirds, thrushes, etc.) nearby.

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 09:42 AM

As I was a motorvatin' over the hill
Saw Maybellene in Coup de Ville

motorvating - another verb, also starting with 'm'

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 11:57 AM

Why "Magpied" rather than "Jackdawed"? Both have the same reputation in respect of thieving and hoarding. As witness The Jackdaw of Rheims.

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: MMario
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 11:59 AM

Possibly they *used* 'Magpie' to collect at least some of the items.

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 12:14 PM

Magpies and Jackdaws are members of the crow family. I wonder if any other crows 'steal' things?

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Celtaddict
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 12:31 PM

I have seen 'magpied' used just as 'googling' as a casual verb. I like the term better, as it just sounds more traditional, and 'pied' as applied to horses or anything else spotted/patchy is old usage still alive.
Rowan, fascinating!! Thanks.
Amos: speaking of colorful terminology, what pray tell is a whipped-cream guttersnipe??

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Amos
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 01:55 PM

Well, I was thinking of a small number of whackos who make a practice of striking various victims with whipped-cream pies by sneaking up on their targets and pushing the pie, or throwing it, into their faces, thus "pieing" their victim.

In this construction, "guttersnipe" (a low-life) also resonates with the word "sniper" -- one who shoots unsuspecting targets from a place of hiding.

But I still disapprove of verbing the pastry.

A

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: NightWing
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 02:53 PM

A buddy of mine once said, "Every noun can be verbed".

I responded, "So, can every verb be nouned then?

BB,
NightWing

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 03:44 PM

Heck! I didn't realize that there is a search engine called Magpie. I assumed that reference was to collecing miscellaneous bits, the way magpies do.

Here's a nice picture of an American magpie.

http://www.shades-of-night.com/aviary/gallery/magpie.html

Are other species more colorful?

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Rowan
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 04:17 PM

Oz magpies are strictly black and white.

Jim Lad's comment ""some Pom wonk" ...   Seems to me that some English Gentleman has just been ozzed. Not very nicely either" may need a small explanation. There's a certain type of Brit that gets his (they're usually male, it seems) jollies out of looking down their nose at erstwhile "colonials". Often they portray themselves as 'experts' on something and American and Oz things seem to be the most common targets. I dare say such Pom wonks have been called a lot worse; I think it a gentle dig.

At the place I work, there's currently a very keen magpie that visits the courtyard where lots of people eat. It doesn't importune diners the way seagulls do but carries on a carolling conversation; I suspect it's still being an adolescent. By spring it'll be in nest building mode and 1/6th of its body weight will be testes, which is one of the reasons magpies can get very testy about defending nests and dive-bomb passers-by.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Jim Lad
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 04:26 PM

P.O.M.E. Prisoner of Mother England was short for "Convicts" but is now used in reference to any Englishman in Australia, regardless of his demeanor. (and that's fair dinkum)
Rowan, you can fool some of the people all of the time............ Oh, you know how it goes.

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Jim Lad
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 04:27 PM

Hey! You just got "Pommed"
Cheers
Jim

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Rowan
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 05:00 PM

She's apples, digger!

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Jim Lad
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 05:04 PM

Onya Mate! Burwood was my old stomping ground. The western Suburbs Soccer Team was the Magpies. Still the same I suppose.

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Rowan
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 08:07 PM

And, living in Northcote as I was, if I'd shown any talent for Aussi Rules when I was young enough to be selected for a team in the VFL (as it was called then) I'd have had no choice but to play for "the mighty magpies" as Collingwood was known. Thankfully I didn't.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: JennyO
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 08:52 PM

Katlaughing, your magpies are quite different from our Oz ones, as has been said before. I didn't realise how different till I heard your sound clip. Our magpie is much more melodic - magpie sounds - and is all black and white, like this.

All this talk of "pie" as a verb reminds me of one of the songs I used to have to sing when I was a kid. I say "have to" because I sang in competitions and I found the choices really BORING! It was an adaptation of one of Shakespeare's verses, called "When daisies pied". I did know pie wasn't a verb, but I used to try and make a joke out of it to relieve the monotony, saying things like "I've never seen a daisy PIE. What does it do when it PIES?"

Which of course leads to PIE!!!

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 06:19 AM

MORE PIE!

Subject: RE: a new verb
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 04:42 PM

We want to be careful using "pie" as a verb. Printers might be confused.

Dave Oesterreich