sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing

Subject: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 11:26 AM

Well, it's a scientific result which makes it BS in Mudcat. It is a health problems thread which makes it BS in Mudcat. But the medical intervention tested is instrument playing so I decide for the music category.

Didgeridoo playing as alternative treatment for obstructive sleep apnoea syndrome (link may not be accessible for you)

Regular didgeridoo playing is an effective treatment alternative well accepted by patients with moderate obstructive sleep apnoea syndrome.

The way it supposedly works: The special circular breathing technique required for didgeridoo playing strengthens the muscles the limpness of which can lead to apnea.

Wolfgang (wondering if his health insurance will pay for a didgeridoo and a long training session in Australia)

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: Jim Lad
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 11:53 AM

I suppose a clout on the head with a didgeridoo could help me sleep for a while. Do it hard enough and the snoring develops a magnificent crescendo pattern interspersed with some periods of apnea. I think it's called "Cadence Interruptus".

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 12:42 PM

Send this link to katlaughing for a test and confirmation!

SRS

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 01:55 PM

One wonders exactly how the idea for this study came about.

One ALSO wonders if it will be possible to sleep at all, once the neighbors realize where that noise is coming from.

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: Fliss
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 02:07 PM

Doing the breathing exercises at a singing workshop the other year, the excercises that vibrate in your head are supposed to help stop snoring... mind you I havnt practiced much so still snore like a trooper.

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: dwditty
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 04:49 PM

Yeah, but is it covered by my insurance?

dw

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: Jim Lad
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 05:06 PM

And just how many troopers would survive if they all snored?

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 05:09 PM

What would annoy my wife more - my snoring or playing a didgeridoo??

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: Crane Driver
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 05:10 PM

Well, I have sleep apnea, and am married to someone who (therefore)suffers from it - and I think she'd rather I snored.

Andrew

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: Jim Lad
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 05:13 PM

"What would annoy my wife more - my snoring or playing a didgeridoo?? "
The extremely long periods of silence, between breaths. You can always take the thing out to the shed.
Good Luck with that, Andrew.

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: SussexCarole
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 05:18 PM

So if I play the didgeridoo it will certainly help me with sleep apnea - I won't hear Andrew's snoring!

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: Jim Lad
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 05:25 PM

Well not if you're doing that!

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: Jim Lad
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 05:28 PM

So, has anyone noticed that "It's Raining, It's Pouring" perfectly describes the history & symptoms of a subdural hematoma?

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: Old Grizzly
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 06:05 PM

Best cure is to lose a few stone and don't get too p*ssed
..... well, lose a few stone anyway :o)

Dave

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 07:26 PM

Very Good,
Jim Lad!

post that in a thread on that song!

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 07:52 PM

The usual way to learn circular breathing is to blow through a straw in a glass of water until you can keep a continuous stream of bubbles going. So it should be possible to do it silently (except that most musical disciplines that taught that way threw in frequent beatings for not learning fast enough).

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 02:33 AM

Wolfgang's link worked ok but shows only the abstract. I didn't see an indication of when this particular research was reported, but might have just missed it in all the statistics.

Similar results have been reported for digeridoo at least as long ago as the '70s and probably before. Results showing improvement for similarly afflicted persons from playing of a number of different "blown instruments" have been sporadically reported for decades. It's unfortunate that no one, so far as I've heard, has done a comparison of which instruments give the most benefit; but it's probably because the ability to demonstrate and measure that an effect is predictably produced is somewhat "tenuous" with the methods used.

Among more conventional instruments, the double-reed ones, oboe and bassoon, have been most frequently cited as having some benefit for apnea sufferers (with the side note that oboists in particular may also be slightly more prone to cerebral stroke events than players of other wind instruments).

Health benefits and hazards of instrument playing have been a little more frequently, and seriously, studied recently; but there's little evidence in medical records that can be used to link health factors to music, since most doctors don't ask about - and don't record in the patient records - whether a patient plays (or sings).

I doubt that more than a few of us have consulted a medical practitioner who's asked about our music, unless we've shown up with something that we believed was due to our musical activities, and told the physician about it very specifically.

John

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: Muttley
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 03:20 AM

In support of Jack Campin the glass of water / straw method is the usual manner.
The trick is to stop up the back of your Oropharynx with your tongue and then breathe in through the nose and push air out through the straw at the same time and then relax your tongue so you can then use up the air you've just sucked into your lungs.

The best straws to use are the really wide ones from McDonalds - I hate Maccas as a "food" but my kids love it - so whenever I'm there I pincha handful of straws for practice. One of these days I'll get up the courage to actually try it on the Didge!

BTW - the correct spelling is Didjeridu - - - - NOT Didgeridoo; the latter is the Anglicisation of the correct spelling.

Another method you can employ to learn circular breathing is to visit your local swimming pool (a beach, dam or river (creek) would work, I suppose).
Just submerge your face so your nostrils are JUST above the water. Then breathe out through your mouth while "blowing a continuous raspberry" (that is, through 'fluttering lips') while doing this, try the tongue-block breathe in through the nose and squeeze air out with the cheeks as described above to keep the air flow continuous and roughly equal.

Finally, if you are going to get a Didge, DO NOT go into a souvenir shop and just buy one that LOOKS good.
First check that the opening will accommodate your mouth.
Then, drop a 10-cent piece into the mouthpiece (that's the end with the wax on it)- or if you're in England, a pound or 20p coin - in the US a quarter would do while in Canada, a 'Loonie' would be best.
If the coin falls all the way through without a hitch - the 'lumen' is probably too wide for a beginner - you need a certain amount of 'resistance' or 'back pressure' when learning. Really wide lumen didge's are for more experienced players and sound incredible.

Also DO NOT buy one made of bamboo - they are commercialised CRAP Remember: Bamboo is NOT native to Australia. A proper Didge should be a hollow tree-branch - eucalypt and it SHOULD be a eucalypt native to Northern Australia - and the branch should have been NATURALLY hollowed by white-ants (believe it or not, the Didjeridu only became known in southern / south-eastern Australia less than 5 -10,000 years ago and were always traded (just like the returning boomerang: Southern Aboriginals only learned of them as souvenirs brought back from northern Australia by White Men!!!!!)

Finally - your didge does NOT need to be 'painted'. That's a tourist thing - though I've seen Aboriginal buskers use very simply painted ones in tourist locations when busking. The general rule of thumb is that a really garishly or complicated painted didge is (not necessarily fake) but possibly NOT the 'real thing' ie artificially hollowed.

Mine is from Alice Springs, about 4-5 feet long, unpainted and bought from an Aboriginal crafts store while we were there. It was about $100 - 150 at the time and even the well-painted ones were about $240 - 280 max. Three doors away in a 'Souvenir Shop' "Handpainted Didgeridu's" were going for about twice the latter amount and most didn't come with a certificate of authenticity.

However, as to the choice between the sound of a didjeridu and experiencing sleep apnoea - the former is the better choice. A didge is a VERY soothing sound when played - even learning the thing produces relaxing sounds; I mean it's hardly the bagpipes! (Mind you - I LOVE the sound of the pipes too!)

Herendeth the lesson

Muttley

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: GUEST,Elfcall
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 08:59 AM

There is a brilliant track on Begley and Cooney's Meitheal (sp?) CD where there is a didg playing on a version of the reel John Brosnan's. One of my all time favourite tracks.

Elf

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 09:34 AM

Thanks for the info, Muttley! Very helpful when I do finally get one. What about the ones made from pvc (plumbing) pipe? I've heard them played by some so-called experts, here, but are they harder to play?

Thanks, SRS, I'd seen this. Followed the link and found some indication that it was not as simple as at first it might seem, the testing I mean, but I am game to try anything, but CPAP! I also have been blowing my harmonica which has been shown to improve breathing, etc.

Thanks, Wolfgang, for this thread.

kat

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 12:41 PM

Here's a page giving lots and lots of alternative names for the instrument.

The most commonly accepted Australian Aboriginal name for this ancient musical instrument, Yidaki, is also commonly used by non-Aboriginals.

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 12:47 PM

*smile*...nice list! Since the tribes didn't exactly 'spell' it at all, ANY spelling is just local custom.

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 03:57 PM

BTW - the correct spelling is Didjeridu - - - - NOT Didgeridoo; the latter is the Anglicisation of the correct spelling.

And the root of that correct spelling is? I'm assuming that since "didgeridoo" is an Anglicisation, then "didjeridu" is the spelling in the language in which the word was originally coined. And that language is?

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: Jim Lad
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 04:05 PM

Yeah! I just let that one go.

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: Muttley
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 04:09 PM

The language - as far as I can tell is Arrenerrte (pronounced ARR-unh-duh ~ with a VERY short 'a' sound as in 'apple')

I thought after I wrote that piece that the term 'correct spelling; was probably 'off the chart' - what I meant was the correct accpted spelling by most indigenes' (in English and derived from the way they pronounce it) is didjeridu. BTW - I learned all this from Aboriginals in Alice Springs when I was there and actually took a couple of lessons from them. Lot of fun. Except for the student who tended to 'dribble' and ended up with a pool of drool on the floor at the end of her didj!!!

Never heard the term Yidaki - where is it from?

Mutt

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: Muttley
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 04:20 PM

Sorry Kat - I've heard the PVC pipe didj played and it's OK - but, again, very little back pressure for the learner and the PVC seems to lack something that the timber of a traditional didj confers - sort of like playing a polycarbonate violin as opposed to a good quality timber instrument - they sound good but the timber sounds better.

Had a quick check up of a booklet I purchased up in 'The Alice' when I got my didj and the Arrernte (I think I spelled it incorrectly before) refer to it 'generically' as a didjeridu (it's the name most folk recognise and they way I spelled it is the way they spell it) but locally they call it Ilpirra.

The same text refers to a neighbouring tribal group wo refer to it colloquially as 'paampu'. The only other tribal groups mentioned are from Arnhem Land closer to Darwin who call it the yirtakki and the yiraka.
But, again, the generalised colloquialism is didjeridu.

Mutt

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: Jim Lad
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 04:47 PM

"correct accpted spelling"
Spell check accepts "didgeridoo" but not the other one. (rejected "accpted" too) Just having some fun with you, Muttley.
Keep in mind that the Australian Aboriginals had not evolved much past the "Stone Age" prior to their exposure to modern society. That is not meant as a put down. There was just little need for further evolution given their lifestyle, climate and available food supply.
As such, I would imagine that they are in a constant state of flux, right now and this will lead to many instances of mispronunciations, misspellings and so on. More importantly, many of the traditions which have been lost or have lost their meanings will be gone for eternity. I wouldn't get too hung up on spelling when you consider that they didn't have this alphabet.
Having said all that: It is always good to see someone take a real interest in the indigenous traditions. We owe them much on many continents.

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: Muttley
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 05:30 PM

Hell, Jim - do you have a cheap computer or something?
"accpted" appeers in MY spel cheque - but my copy of Windows was a cheap "Black Mountain Hills" version. Cost me four mud crabs and a 'coon tail!

Over here, Didjeridu is the way most Aboriginal-generated booklets / pamphlets spell it; unless it gets edited by an Anglo-Saxon who then 'spell checks' and changes it.

I have had many good Aboriginal friends in the past - one of them even gave me an Aboriginal name; I was a friend to him and bis 'brothers' at College when it just wasn't fashionable to even LOOK at an Aboriginal in white Australia, let alone TALK to one.

Muttley

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: Jim Lad
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 06:26 PM

"Anglo-Saxon" Low blow. I was in Australia for four years, back in the seventies. I know what the attitude towards Aboriginals (and foreigners) was then.
But nobody ever called me an "Anglo-Saxon".

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 06:50 PM

"the PVC seems to lack something that the timber of a traditional didj confers "

It's called 'Timbre'...


I'll leave now...

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 07:08 PM

You need timber to get the right timbre.

Subject: RE: sleep apnea helped by didgeridoo playing
From: Muttley
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 07:44 PM

Thankyou McGrath of Harlow - that's EXACTLY what I meant - - - I wrote timber and MEANT timber (as in wood) and as you say: The best timber produces the best timbre

Muttley

BTW Jim - not much has changed: A good many Australians still regard the Aboriginals (Koori's / Murri / Yolngu - whichever you prefer) as second-clas (even fifth-class) citizens. I for one, do not. This is THEIR land and they belong to it (their words and sentiments) and I have an annoying habit of standing up in the face of opposition and supporting them - my own sister will not discuss the topic with me as the only exposure to the Aboriginals SHE has had in Townsville is with the outcast mobs that are rejected even by their own people as a disgrace.

I have an enormous amount of respect for them and their culture.