Musican's families chatter at venues

Subject: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Celtaddict
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 12:40 PM

I have not found something about this but suspect it is a common problem and I just do not know how to search.
At many venues, not as much formal concerts but sessions, coffee houses, festivals and pubs, when there are a number of us who have come particularly to hear the music, it seems that often the wives, girlfriends (I listen to far more men than women), good buddies, long-term fans and such seem to be the biggest offenders in making so much noise it is hard to hear. I can understand (sort of) how this happens, when they get to hear the musician so often it is not a novelty to them but they may not see each other as often, but I have not run across any way that works to limit it. I have not been impressed with the 'shush' having any effect. Aside from places in which there is someone whose job is (and is known to be) keeping order, who can say, 'please, people would like to listen' or 'perhaps it would be easier to converse in the courtyard' (a line I admired from a doorkeeper in New Orleans), it seems harder than random strangers making noise, and the musician is rather at a disadvantage at least while the performance is going on. Anyone have any suggestions?

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 01:01 PM

Went to a small folk festival in northern Scotland, where there was a group of people who would not shut up and listen during a session in the bar. Considering one of the people singing was a well known singer songwriter, I thought this showed poor taste as well as bad manners. The next day when these same ill mannered people were themselves singing at another session in a different bar, they expected silence for their efforts. It later transpired that some of the people with the bad manners were organisers of a folk club elsewhere in Scotland!
Giok

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 01:41 PM

I once had somebody in the audience who I didn't know, who was talking quite loudly during the evening. Anyway< I could see people were getting a bit upset, so I decided it was time I said something. So I aksed the performer to hang on before doing the next song and the hall went quite. I then said in a farely loud voice. "Would you mind being quitwe, becuase other people are trying to listen. He looked at me a bit strange, so I said it again.
This time a lady who was his daughter, said Dad can you be quite. It was then I found out that he was literally deaf and didn't realise.

I felt bad about that,so I wnent over after the song and apologised and they just laughed and all wa sOK.

he didn't talk afeter that. LOL

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Celtaddict
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 11:02 PM

So it is not particularly uncommon.
Has anyone found a useful way to deal with it?

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 11:14 PM

Give them the wrong date.

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Jim Lad
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 02:11 AM

I've been known to repeat the last sentence for them when one audience member couldn't hear the other over my singing. It usually surprises them. I know that it's probably rude of them in a concert setting but most of the time, I think they just don't realize how loud they are. I think musicians are the worst but I'd put that down to nervous energy.
As for Pubs and such: We're paid to entertain. If they're having a good time talking, your work is done. Just focus on the rest of them.

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:45 AM

There was a thread a couple of months or so back (?) about how to deal with noisy members of the audience, or people being rude by talking over others at sessions, etc.

In spite of searching, I can't find the thread, but I think it was called something like "I walked out of a session" or similar. Maybe someone better at using the Mudcat search could locate it?

One thing that came out of the discussion was that instead of singing louder to compensate for the noise, singing more quietly can sometimes work. Then everybody else there will get p***ed off with the ones who are talking loudly, and probably glare at them, and intimidate them into shutting up.

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:59 AM

It isn't always musicians' families. I get really fed up when my "other half" is playing and people talk. Scrump has a good point about singing more quietly rather than more loudly. It's a bit like dealing with a class of noisy pupils!

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 05:36 AM

Unfortunately, it does depend on the setting. Among other things, we do pub gigs, and you can't expect people to sit and listen in more or less silence, like they do in folk clubs. People are in the bar socialising, drinking, chatting, etc., and there's no point in expecting them to shut up. They just want you for background music, and if the pub is paying you, you can't argue. Depending on the gig (sometimes we are asked to do specific types of music), we tend to play mainly tunes in this case, or sing chorus songs, so that anyone who wants to join in, can do. There's not much point in singing a quiet song with 'meaningful' words, because nobody will hear it properly.

If you're used to a folk club environment, it makes it less enjoyable if you think that people aren't listening to what you're doing, but you just have to accept it and get on with it. There are usually a few people who do want to listen, which sort of justifies what you're doing.

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 05:48 AM

It does depend on the setting.

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: bubblyrat
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 06:07 AM

I am very lucky to be able to play Irish music every Monday night,with some of the finest musicians around,in a very Irish pub in Slough ! The landlord,Tom King,is as Irish as it is possible to be,and he absolutely LOVES his traditional music.The "Audience" in the bar is generally composed of afficionados anyway,so they keep quiet on the whole. If they get a bit 'noisy' however,Tom will stamp loudly on the floor & bellow "Quiet,now !! " at the top of his voice.Once,about a year ago,we played a set of three reels,during which two women sitting at the bar talked shrilly and incessantly. When we had finished,Tom went up to them and said,loudly, " I"d like to remind youse ladies dat dere"s to be no tarkin' while de musicians are playin'!! If youse want to do dat kind a ting,dere"s another bar next door-----in fact,dere"s another fokkin pob down de fokkin road !! ". It was a good ten minutes before ANYONE said ANYTHING to ANYBODY after that !! Crude,I admit,but undeniably effective. So remember--------Monday nights, from 9 pm onwards-The Herschel Arms-Herschel street---Slough !! And NO TARKIN' !!

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 07:33 AM

LOL bubblyrat - as you say, a bit rude, but bloody funny! :D

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Les from Hull
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 09:16 AM

There are a number of mudcatters who are librarians. Perhaps you should take one along with you. SSSSHHHHHHH!!!!

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Fidjit
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 09:17 AM

It does depend on the setting as said by enajay.

I was asked to do a spot after the main act. Never a good move.

I sang one song, but as the audience was more interested in talking by now.

I just said, "The trouble with sitting up here and singing whilst you're all talking, is that I can't follow what you're talking about."

Then I got off the stage.

As I said they were more interested in a chat after having an hour of the main act. So you can't really blame them.

Chas

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 09:20 AM

Fidjit, I can't take credit for saying that - I was just agreeing with Scrump.

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 09:26 AM

Ah, it was you, eanjay - I thought there was an echo in here
:-)

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 10:56 AM

LOL, Scrump !!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 10:59 AM

If all else fails, physical violence against the offending members of the audience usually does the trick. But this is not advised if they are bigger than you :D

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Jim Lad
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 11:06 AM

Keep in mind that in Pubs and Restaurants, people's main reason for being there is to socialize, drink/eat and enjoy the ambiance. So, set your sound levels accordingly. In a bar for instance, play to the twenty or thirty seats right in front of you. Don't worry about the gang over at the far wall. They'll let you know if they want it louder.
And tell the wee woman who wants you to turn it down "You're sitting under the speaker, missus. Sit up here with me. It's a lot quieter."

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: avrosimones
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 11:07 AM

In my experience, I always find the loudest and rudest of 'fans' are often fans of the poorest act. I recently played a gig in London and shared the bill with a few other acts. The people who were talking during all the sets were fans of a performer who was very sub-standard… this seems to be a pretty common theme.

Anyway, I always find approaching these people and asking them to be quiet to their faces is the best way of making them shut up!

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Jim Lad
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 11:39 AM

I'll make this my last attempt here. We're not school teachers, librarians (I love librarians but that would be another topic) or prison guards.
We're Entertainers! We keep people entertained. That's all.
Cheers
Jim

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 12:07 PM

Jim Lad, you have such a nice way of looking at it.

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Jim Lad
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 12:16 PM

It's all about Blood Pressure.
Heh Heh!

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 12:18 PM

I always felt that 'sessions' were for the musicians rather than an 'audience'and I guess that I'm not alone by the sound of things. However I agree that a performer on 'stage' deserves the audiences' full attention, who knows if the audience listens they may hear something special!!
chris

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: LukeKellylives (Chris)
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 09:22 PM

Had a session with a guy named Joe Dowling at a festival in October, and the noise wasn't bad. We played through cars and horses walking around an indoor festival! Most of the people were polite enough to stop talking if they were listening, then saved the chatter for when we were deciding what song to sing, or while he showed me how to play the next song.

But this is what I hate about bringing my guitar to places like my school. I will sum it up with my constantly said sentence.

"NO, I WILL NOT PLAY FREE BIRD, SWEET HOME ALABAMA, OR IRON MAN, STOP ASKING!"

I literally get hundreds of requests for those three songs, among some others, while playing traditional music. Another problem is I have a few regulars who listen, but always request the same three songs over and over again. It gets annoying for me, and results in a number of, "LEARN A NEW SONG!" from other people. I eventually just decided that I'm either not going to bring my mandolin or guitar, or I'm going to tape a sign on it with a list of songs I will not play.

I've even gotten a request for RAP songs on a mandolin.

*sighs*

I'm eventually going to have to sit these people down and hand them out a printed out "Session Etiquette Rules" paper. One of the main ones is not to make requests. *rolls eyes*

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Bert
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 11:39 PM

Iv'e been known to sing this song that my Dad used to sing.

Sing it quietly and shout for the capitals.

We must be ever so, ever so QUIET
Shhh, shhh, shhh,
Dont make a noise it will lead to a RIOT
Shhh, shhh, shhh,

Can't you hear the tick of the clock
dickery, dickery, dickery, dock
We must be ever so, ever so, ever so, ever so, ever so, ever so, ever so QUIET

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Scrump
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 05:11 AM

"NO, I WILL NOT PLAY FREE BIRD, SWEET HOME ALABAMA, OR IRON MAN, STOP ASKING!"
I literally get hundreds of requests for those three songs,

Chris, why not learn them - you could make a fortune :D

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 05:21 AM

I'm surprised you don't get asked for 'Stairway to Heaven'...

LTS (running and hiding under the bed...)

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Scrump
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 05:25 AM

What I hate is when you are playing and singing in a pub, and people come up to you and ask a question like "Do you play 'Take Me Home Country Roads'"? and expect you to stop singing to answer them.

Or they try to hand you a piece of paper with their requests written on it while you are playing guitar (using both hands of course!)

Grrrrrrrrrr!

>:-<

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Jim Lad
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 10:34 AM

By now, I have completely given up!

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Scrump
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 10:53 AM

I don't believe you Jim Lad! :-)

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 11:26 AM

A long time ago I played a regular Monday night gig at a PIZZA restaurant in a suburb of Chicago. GEORGE was a regular there---and a loudmouth. (He also played a bass drum at the Chicago White Sox baseball games---and drove Sox broadcaster, Jim Piersall, nuts with his constant pounding on his drum---supposedly in support of the ball team. I recall Piersall saying, "Damn, I'm gonna kill that drummer Boy!")

Anyhow, George was standing right in front of me with his back to me. I was on the raised stage, and he was almost yelling (talking?)at the people sitting around the front table. The table was covered by several large pizzas.

I'd had it up to here with George!! I lifted my leg and pushed him, VERY hard. He went sprawling on his stomach sliding across the table on all of those greasy pizzas. He looked like a crab flailing his arms and legs as he slid.

Bottom line, the boss gave me an extra $20.00 for provoking George to proclaim that he would NEVER be back again!

Ah, fond memories!

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Jim Lad
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 11:47 AM

Okay! So now we've moved into "Kicking the rowdies". What am I missing here? I've nearly given up, Scrump.

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Celtaddict
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 10:05 AM

I do agree that situations vary enormously, and in a basic pub, often the music is 'background' to all the other activity, however much we music lovers may deplore the attitude. But most recently, this was at a gathering specifically of fans of Irish music, who had paid well for the event, and we were gathered in one area, not a public bar but a private, reserved area, around 75 of us with about a dozen musicians, world class musicians. It was set up rather as a session, with the musicians in a rough semicircle, no sound system, and some of the 'fans' who themselves played and sang, joined in. Most of us were thrilled to be there and listening intently, and joining in where appropriate, but there was one table of folks who were chattering more and more loudly, laughing shrilly; many of us looked toward that table wishing to chill them with our looks but when we realized it was filled with the wives and girlfriends of several of the musicians, no one including the organizer felt comfortable saying anything to them.

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Mooh
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 10:24 AM

Funny ain't it, long ago I learned to shut my trap while others were performing, must have been as a toddler. But adults are held to a different standard.

Shouldn't mind being considered rude in asking someone to shush, it's less rude than the distractors. It's the confrontation that bothers folks.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Celtaddict
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 12:05 PM

I do not mind on occasion saying to someone, in the evident assumption that they simply do not realize how noisy they have become, "Excuse me, we are having trouble hearing the singer." (Or, to the man standing up with his video camera, "Those of us behind you would like to see too.") Perhaps it shouldn't, but it seems different when it is the people the singer brought along, whether family or 'regulars' who are creating the disturbance and I am the 'visitor.' I suspect my deference toward the performer is being extended to 'their people' as well.

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Linda Goodman Zebooker
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 01:08 PM

I was enjoying a concert on Saturday. Being quite short, I was glad to sit behind three empty seats that were being held by the management for someone - I assumed they were connected to the musicians, or were some kind of sponsor for the concert

But when these folks showed up, they kept whispering to each other. They were quiet enough that I couldn't hear them, but the heads kept constantly going back and forth in front of me - very distracting. Then the break, and I thought they'd get caught up with each other, and they did, and stopped whispering.

But the woman in front of me began swaying back and forth to the music. It might have been ok if she'd been in time, but she was slightly SLOWER than the beat, and I found myself getting dizzy!!

I was trying to think what to say to her, as I considered her "special" and it wasn't like she was actually talking. Never did figure it out. (sigh)

Linda

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 01:17 PM

Scrump, I think you mean THIS ONE.

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Scoville
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 01:34 PM

Keep in mind that in Pubs and Restaurants, people's main reason for being there is to socialize, drink/eat and enjoy the ambiance. So, set your sound levels accordingly. In a bar for instance, play to the twenty or thirty seats right in front of you. Don't worry about the gang over at the far wall. They'll let you know if they want it louder.

This is my take, too. It's one thing if people are chattering away at a concert or a stage show where the music is the primary attraction (I had to stare down a mouthy woman at a Willie Nelson show last week) but I've always felt that if it were a less-than-formal event at a restaurant, pub, street corner, whatever, people are there to eat and talk and maybe to listen to the music. I'd appreciate it if they didn't shout across the room to one another during my set but I can't and won't chide them for talking to their friends. If it bothers me that much, I need to start trolling for more formal venues.

Sometimes it's just not all about me.

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Jim Lad
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 02:13 PM

Ah! Finally! A kindred spirit. Sometimes we have to sell beer and sometimes the master chef has to flip hamburgers.

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Joybell
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 06:20 PM

I've been in most of these situations. The one I never could solve was at several regular gigs -- where some people paid to hear the music, some paid to socalize, and some paid to socialize with background music. Sound systems don't work they just add to the din. The owners of the venues had a bet each way. The policy was -- provide food and a comfortable setting and let them fight it out. I'd be always defending the rights of the socializers -- they had a valid augument - but there'd be the quiet people who said the venue promised live music and they had come to hear it.
There are some things I don't miss. Now-- just how to stay sane without performing? - that's the problem.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Mooh
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 08:00 AM

Live music as background music can be unpredictable. I have an instrumental duo with a violinist/fiddler (I play guitars) and sometimes we're essentially ignored by diners when we do dinner music and sometimes folks will eat and listen intently. We don't do anything different in each scenerio, it just seems to be the feel of the room. We don't try to engage the diners either, figuring it's not called for during dinner music, so we just bang out the tunes. It does seem like folks are more inclined to converse during slow tunes and airs and more attentive during swing and other uptempo tunes.

In defence of the noisy patrons, they don't always know there's going to be music when they choose where to eat.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Jim Lad
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 12:03 PM

When my wife and I finally get the chance to dine out, we may choose a restaurant with Live Music. But make no mistake, we're there to share each other's company. There's an art to playing in a restaurant and a lot of it involves forgetting everything you know about entertaining and learning how to blend in.

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: HuwG
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 05:04 PM

I have indeed had to suffer insensitive bands' kith and kindred, both when working as a roadie and behind a bar.

In Britain, bands playing in pubs have to be prepared for some diabolical conditions; for example, having to set up on the hearth of a fireplace, with one plug socket sixty feet away. It is always nice to have a supporters' club travelling with the band. However, it is not done to have the band and their wagon train actually take over the venue.

My particular hate; a jazz trio (no names mentioned) in the North West of England who played at the pub where I worked. The pub has three bars; the lounge and snug, which are close together, and the tap room, separated by a door. The band arrived and demanded to take over the entire lounge. (I have seen a seven-piece group use only one third of it). This meant that the bar staff had to carry lots of tables and chairs into a back room. The band set up a keyboard, a drum kit and various tripods and stands in sprawling disorder, almost blocking the entrance to the gents' toilet.

Four assorted wives and friends then occupied one table in the snug, reserved all the other seats in the snug for members of the band "for the break". The result; everyone else had to migrate to the tap room, where the music was inaudible. This scarcely mattered, as the band took two hours to set up and tune, and then played a mere two half-hour sets, effectively to themselves and four hangers-on. The WAGs demanded expensive free drinks for themselves and looked most affronted when told that only the actual players got free drinkies.

I (and every real musician who had the misfortune to look in) suggested to the landlord that that particular bunch of poseurs did not play again. So far, they haven't.

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Jim Lad
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 05:32 PM

Had to laugh at the "Moving tables" comment. Other than in the odd "Big Name" lodges and hotels where the floor managers won't allow it, I always insist on taking care of those things by myself and would never dream of leaving without putting things back to the way they were.
Hospitality workers have a tough enough job and when I'm playing those venues I tend to consider myself as one of them.
Mind you, I never drink or eat before or during a gig but have lost count of the number of times some poor barman has found himself sharing a couple of pints with me 'til four in the morning.

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: LukeKellylives (Chris)
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 06:14 PM

"I'm surprised they haven't asked you to play Stairway to Heaven."

They did at first.

Then I proceeded to tell them that I hated Led Zeppelin more than anything else in the world.

They stopped asking for that one.

Now I just need to get them to stop interrupting me when I'm playing something other than Monto or Drunken Sailor, and MAYBE I can start showing them some other songs they might like.

It gets on my nerves.

Someone ACTUALLY requested that I play a rap song on a mandolin...I think I lost all respect for about eighty percent of the Louisiana population at that point.

Oh, and Scrump (Martin?), I might make a fortune, but I'd lose it all paying off my copyright infringement settlements! XD

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 05:57 AM

We performed at a folk club in Oxford and behind the stage on the wall a big notice said "When there's a singer on, shut the f**k up". Brilliant I thought.

Sal

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: Scrump
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 06:34 AM

"When there's a singer on, shut the f**k up"

Where "f**k" means "folk"? :-)

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 08:54 PM

So, a Venue that has been built to service people who wish to have a drink and socialize is invaded by a load of wannabe musician bashing out tunes ad nauseum and making so much noise that the public have to talk louder to hear themselves over the cacophony, they're in the wrong?

When will you realize that you are the ones making the noise and interfering with the general public's right to have a quiet drink and chat - if you think you are so good that people have to shut up and listen to you, it's about time you realized that if you were they would!

Subject: RE: Musican's families chatter at venues
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 09:02 PM

... if they were sober...