What was the first Mudcat Thread?

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 01:03 PM

Noon vs midnight:

Since "A.M." and "P.M." mean "Ante Meridien" and "Post Meridian" (Latin for "before noon" and "after noon"), neither "12:00 a.m." nor "12:00 p.m." makes any sense, from a strictly logical standpoint. (Twelve hours before noon and twelve hours after noon are both midnight; neither would mean "noon.")

That's why I am always confused when someone writes or prints any reference to 12 am or pm ~ they should simply say "noon" or "midnight" to be clearly understood.

However:

12:01 am is quite obviously a "morning" (ante meridien) time ~ wee-wee-hours of the morning, of course ~ just as 12:01 pm is one minute into the early efternoon. By extension, therefore, if someone is inconsiderate enough to confuse matters by referring to straight-up twelve o'clock as "AM or "PM," then 12 am should probably be understood as referring to midnight (because one minute later, 12:01 am, is a morning hour) while 12 pm would by the same logic be noon (again, be extension from recognizing 12:01 pm as one minute past noon).

I think it bass-ackward to blame this confusion on the analog clock; it is clearly a product of the digital age. Before the proliferation of digital timepieces, people almost always automatically said and wrote "noon" and "midnight" as a matter of course, and were much less likely to feel the compulsion to express these times as "12:00" and then be confronted with the confusing task of deciding whether to call it 12 am or 12 pm.

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: JennyO
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 12:37 PM

How about one of these?

,:-}


,:-?

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: SharonA
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 11:26 PM

Or maybe this:

':-J

Perhaps better with a lower-case j, if you don't mind a beauty mark:

':-j

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: SharonA
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 02:31 AM

"Why isn't there an emoticon for a rueful smile and a raised eyebrow?"

How about this:

':-s

Subject: RE: The Mudcat Café
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 12:31 AM

So, anyhow, I guess it's clear the the first message was #4 (there are no messages 1, 2, or 3), and the first thread was also #4 (3 is missing and 1 and 2 came later). Don't know how, don't know why.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: SharonA
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 11:52 PM

I agree with Nigel -- following 11:59 p.m (post meridiem) with 12:00 a.m. (ante meridiem) is silly. Sillier is the fact that 12:00 through 12:59 ante meridiem immediately precede 1:00 ante meridiem. It's all the fault of the analog clock, I suppose.

But even on an analog clock, when the minute hand points straight up we don't call it minute #60 of an hour; we call it the starting point (:00) of a new hour. Therefore midnight, by rights, should be 0:00 a.m.(the start of a new minute in a new day), the minute after it should be 0:01 a.m., and so forth. Following this logic, noon should be 0:00 m. (meridiem) and the very second after it would be 0:00:01 p.m. So all analog clocks should have a zero in place of the 12 on the dial... but that'll never happen. Makes me wonder whether clocks were invented (or perhaps derived from the sundial?) before the zero was used as a starting point for time periods. Military time is, of course, the most logical system: just count up to 24 hours.

Speaking of starting points and counting up, I've taken a few minutes to explore the strange sequence of the first few Mudcat threads (listed by date of first post per thread). Not only does threadID1 come after threadID4, it comes after threadID20! You'll see that threads ID3 and ID11 are missing from view entirely...

threadid4    1 Oct 96   12:00 a.m.
threadid5    1 Oct 96   12:07 a.m.
threadid6    1 Oct 96    9:47 a.m.
threadid2    2 Oct 96    8:35 a.m.
threadid7    2 Oct 96    3:38 p.m.
threadid8    2 Oct 96    8:59 p.m.
threadid9    3 Oct 96    7:46 a.m.
threadid10   3 Oct 96   12:28 p.m.
threadid12   3 Oct 96    8:14 p.m.
threadid13   4 Oct 96   12:41 a.m.
threadid14   4 Oct 96    4:13 p.m.
threadid15   6 Oct 96    8:56 a.m.
threadid16   6 Oct 96    8:59 a.m.
threadid17   6 Oct 96    9:01 a.m.
threadid18   6 Oct 96    4:36 p.m.
threadid19   6 Oct 96   11:55 p.m.
threadid20   7 Oct 96   12:18 a.m.
threadid1    7 Oct 96    7:33 a.m.
threadid21   7 Oct 96    7:45 a.m.
threadid22   7 Oct 96    2:32 p.m.

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 05:33 AM

Can we see it?

sal

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 04:15 PM

JennyO:
Surely 12.00 am is earlier than 9.47am. At least it is in this neck of the woods. It would be midnight - the first minute of 1st October. Midday is 12.00pm
Yep, that's how they show it on the TV weather forecasts, but I don't like it. 12.00 am should be (in any logical system) one hour later than 11.00 am. i.e. Midday. Midnight should be 24.00, or 12.00 pm, or 0.00 am (one hour before 1.00 am)

CHEERS
Nigel (always ready to muddy the cool clear waters)

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 01:08 PM

This seems to be a good game.

Sal

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: GUEST,Nick
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 07:03 PM

"are you new to the 'Cat? Haven't seen you around before".

I would not rule this out based on the text alone, but then I do love, look for and often find sarcasm and irony where others may not.
Nick

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 06:02 AM

McGrath says ...
Well that first one Stewart gave (http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=1&messages=1) couldn't very well be thr first Mudcat thread, since the second actual post in it says "are you new to the 'Cat? Haven't seen you around before". ......
But like several people on that thread he didn't read the date on the posts.
Seems to be a conditioned reflex on Mudcat, to answer all questions, however out of date. (I was tempted to add to the old threads, but refrained, will watch with interest to see them swimming to the surface).
Nowadays its not so obvious that someone has answered an old question as there would be a hundred timely answers between the 2 posts.

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 04:51 AM

I see that the seventh post in that ur thread has Don't know why it works so well, just glad and grateful to you that it does from the Shambles.
Why isn't there an emoticon for a rueful smile and a raised eyebrow?

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: JennyO
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 04:30 AM

Surely 12.00 am is earlier than 9.47am. At least it is in this neck of the woods. It would be midnight - the first minute of 1st October. Midday is 12.00pm

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 11:01 PM

It was impossible to answer Vivian Price's query, since there never has been a Decata, GA.

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 08:59 PM

Here's the one I mentioned in my previous post, the one that appears to have the earliest date and time - Lyr/Tune Req: Battle of Decata

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 03:38 PM

chicken or egg?

sj

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 09:39 AM



It's listed as 6, but the time given is 9.47am on October 1st 1996, whereas the one opened by Max, 4, has the time as 12.0am on the same day.

I see it wasn't until 2005 that Vivian Price, who never seems to have posted again under that name - seems to have got any kind of answer.

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 09:29 AM

It's always difficult getting new forums started (I know, I've started a few).

(I always wonder who bought the first telephone, and how the salesman persuaded them to buy it.)

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: JennyO
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 09:19 AM

Not to mention that the first post to it was on 7th October'96, and the first post to the other thread "The Mudcat Cafe" was from Max on 1st October'96. That one looks very much like a 'first thread' to me regardless of the threadid.

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 08:31 AM

Well that first one Stewart gave (http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=1&messages=1) couldn't very well be thr first Mudcat thread, since the second actual post in it says "are you new to the 'Cat? Haven't seen you around before".

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 08:51 PM

OoUuCcHh!!!!

What a "trip on a Sunday afternoon"

REAL"eye opener" ....even

way

Way

WAY

WAY

WAY

back then....Gargoyle's postings were sometimes "expunged from the record" (permanently and hopefuly, forever and ever and ever into muddy-debased-servers)

Thankful to the entire croup (susandickjoemaxmaphrica)

Couldn't of done it witch alfalphia.

Later glaze for future daze.

Sin Sear Lee, GArGOyLE

Make a Clone to rule the Throne and there always be a despot....and stability.

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 08:04 PM

If you change the #, and go thru the first couple months back in '96, you'll find several 'missing' ones, and a few others that didn't work right.

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 08:03 PM

Yes...#4 was the 1st...(maybe the first 3 were throwaway tests)

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: Alba
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 07:54 PM

or is it Stewart's other discovery..*smile*

This one looks VERY promising Stewart!

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: Alba
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 07:52 PM

Here you go Stewart..a link to your discovery The possible *first* ...
Best to All
Jude

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: Stewart
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 07:52 PM

Or more likely this:
http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=4&messages=1

Subject: RE: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: Stewart
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 07:48 PM

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=1&messages=1
Could this be it?

Subject: What was the first Mudcat Thread?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 07:41 PM

I have tried to search but it takes ages. Has anyone found it and when was it?

Sal