Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers

Subject: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: GUEST,Teachers Pet
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 01:21 PM

I am not disparaging teachers, just a question which has niggled at me for some time.
In any folk gathering (UK) I have attended the majority will be connected with teaching/education. Spouses, siblings, friends or working directly in education. I attended a festival and photographed the group I was with and later realised that of the fourteen persons in the photo, twelve were directly connected to teaching (I am not but sister and many in-laws are).
Any other gathering there may be one / two but no-where near the ratio in folk.
This has crossed my mind many times in the past and wondered if any mudcatters could explain.

(I am a member but dont want to risk upsetting my mudcat teaching friends who may mis-interpret my intent which is purely educational)

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 01:25 PM

You forgot Social Workers TP! My theory is that the majority of folkies are left leaning politically, also true of teachers and social workers!
G ¦¬]

Sits back and awaits the flak.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Mooh
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 01:27 PM

Word of mouth is what teachers do, how they function, and what folk is, to a large degree. It's a good fit.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 01:30 PM

Folk music was always the style of music that most focused on lyrical content.....words....therefore it tends to attract people who are strong in their literacy skills. It also tends to attract people who are interested in knowing about past history in detail. It's just natural that people who are drawn to folk music would also tend to be the types who would go into teaching.

Most other styles of music are more about "the groove". They're more physical, in other words. Or they're primarily about emotion/sexual attraction ("love songs"). The style of music that appeals most directly to thinking about and focusing on the meaning of the song is folk music.

It is a teacher's job to think, to focus on meaning, and to impart that to others. (at least it should be, anyway...)

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 01:45 PM

I think the number of IT types is rising these days. Agreed that teachers and social workers still dominate, but eventually the geek shall inherit the earth.
Folk also seems to attract a lot of OCD/Asperger's types.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 01:50 PM

I wonder to whom he could be referring?
G.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Ernest
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 02:01 PM

A teachers pet with an educational interest....

Who would have guessed that?

Regards
Ernest

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: GUEST,Teachers Pet
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 02:18 PM

Great thoughts.

Thanks for sharing.

Any more?

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Alec
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 02:26 PM

I think there's a lot in what Little Hawk says as regards Teachers.
Whilst there are strong historical links between the Left & the Folk world on both sides of the Atlantic, Social Workers tend to be agents of social control & gatekeepers to services, consequently it is an unattractive career choice to many on the left.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Little Robyn
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 02:35 PM

In NZ most of the early folk clubs (in the 60s)were at universities and teacher's training colleges. Teachers were encouraged to use music and singing in class and folk material was perfect for this.
The Folkways records like Birds, beasts bugs and little fishes, School days and Songs to grow on were available here and school broadcasts included similar songs.
But don't forget librarians.
Robyn

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Alec
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 02:45 PM

This may have been the case in the U.K. also Robyn.
The late 'sixties & early 'seventies was the period of my own Primary education & at that time most younger Teachers and virtually all Student Teachers were actively involved in Folk music.
Which fact enriched my Primary Education massively.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 02:50 PM

IMO, teachers are certainly not left-leaning. Quite the opposite. As was noted above with social workers, teachers are also agents of social control. A darned good estimate of how teachers vote is right in line with the general population. As to teachers being involved with folk music, most teachers aren't. However, many teachers do play instruments and are involved in music to one degree or other.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 02:55 PM

I was referring to the UK Bruce, where I have some knowledge of the matter, no doubt it is different in other countries.
By left leaning, I mean Socialist.
G.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 03:07 PM

er perhaps they are intelligent

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 03:15 PM

sorry surely the long summer holiday break at festival time has something to do with it! It less long than it was nowadays and this is not a disparaging remark since it was a teacher that told me it was what had encouraged her to take part in folk music.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: GUEST,Teachers Pet
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 03:23 PM

Peace - 'As to teachers being involved with folk music, most teachers aren't'.

Not quite what I wrote. My point is (in the UK) most 'folkies' are involved in teaching. A subtle difference.

But thanks for all your thoughts - very interesting views and IF I was a teacher I would award you all gold stars (do they still do that?)

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: AlexB
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 03:40 PM

I know a lot that are engineers.

Folkies that is, not teachers.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Bee
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:19 PM

Perhaps the folk music comes first and the teaching second. Most people know or fear they won't be able to make a living from music, and teaching is an almost guaranteed steady job with a certain amount of free time to pursue what you really love.

Natalie MacMaster, despite her success, continued to go to university until she could get a teacher's licence, and good Cape Breton girl that she is, I'm sure in the back of her mind was a worry that she'd need a job of that sort some day. Young women in Nova Scotia, at least, have been urged to 'get a teacher's licence', if it was at all possible, for about a century. It was, until pretty recently, considered the essential back-up, the 'break in emergency' fire-axe behind glass, to be used in case of sickly husband, widowhood, or spinsterhood.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:25 PM

Perhaps its the drive to perform without entertaining.......

I suspect passing on this great and worthy tradition is the sort of worthwhile activity that would attract someone with a precise knowledge of transitive verbs.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: GUEST,Bruce Michael Baillie
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:30 PM

My God yes, Teachers and Social Workers, I noticed this phenomenon 30 years ago and don't get me wrong they're not all bad but quite a few are a right bloody pain in the arse! Teachers are great ones for, well teaching! the only thing is a lot of them don't know when to bloodywell stop! The number of times I've sat in a folk club and been 'taught' how to sing a chorus by a teacher on his/her night off!...like being back at school without the caning if you happened to make your chair squeak during a music lesson, strange isn't it that the only three times I was beaten during school back in the sixties, two of them were in music lessons which I actually used to enjoy!

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:35 PM

Heh! Now we need a thread asking the question "Why does 'folk' attract so few death-metalheads and rappers?".

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: GUEST,Sparticus
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:37 PM

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach and many develop a leaning towards folk music. Is it "a lesson too late for the learning"???
I'm only joking.
Perhaps the intellectualisation of folk music is responsible for this and there again, perhaps not. How many traditional singers and musicians were teachers? I don't know but what they have passed on has taught us a lot. Could that be a connection? All depends on what your definition of a teacher is.
Furthermore, how many teachers have left the profession and become professional folk singers? I bet you can all name one.
Bob Fox tob start with.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Alec
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:38 PM

I thought rappers epitomised Folk! :-)

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:46 PM

Is epitomising a good thing or a bad thing?

Giok, point taken. It is not that way here.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Phil Manchester
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:48 PM

This is surely a 'chicken and egg' chronology issue. Folk music (in England at least) was defined mainly by 'teachers' so it is no surprise that what is generally thought of as folk music nowadays attracts those who invented it in the first place.
Real folk music - if there is such a thing - was/is often far removed from that preserved (probably by teachers) at the EFDSS and the BBC.
(This is not to say, incidentally, that this is not good stuff - its just that it is only part of the story)
The music I heard as a youngster, sung by good old boys in pubs in remote parts of East Anglia in the 60s/70s, included music hall songs('Oh Joe the boat is going over' and 'Tarpaulin Jacket'), crude ditties and even contemporary pop songs ('The Glory of Love', I remember was a particular favourite). There weren't any teachers around to say whether it was folk music or not - although there were a few engineers joining in lustily on choruses:-)

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Bee
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:48 PM

To be honest, Sparticus, most of the teachers and social workers I've known haven't been what you'd call 'intellectuals'. I don't mean they weren't bright, just usually not that interested in literature or the arts generally. Perhaps it is different here, but teaching school has always been regarded as achievable for the majority of students, with a sure job at the end of college.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Mooh
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:52 PM

The folk process IS teaching. Not so much modern classroom or private tutorial type teaching, but an older more instinctive, natural process. Part parenting, part coaching, part leading by example, part demonstrative, part trial and error, part guided, part unguided, tested and proved by uncounted generations...

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:54 PM

Yeah, I know several people who started as teachers and then became folksingers. Eileen McGann, for instance, is one on the Canadian circuit who fits that description.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: bubblyrat
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 05:06 PM

Some of us are ex-forces,too !! There"s me for starters (Navy)--Cyril Tawney, of course (Navy )--Bill McKinnon (RAF )-Shep Woolley (Navy) --The one in the "Spinners" with "ROMFT" on his guitar (Navy)-I know there are more of you out there----!! Any more names for the list ?? We need more RAF & some Army -types. There"s at least one ex-Royal Marine who goes to Miskin, I think !!

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 05:32 PM

I had four remarkable professors at university. Of the four, one was ex Royal Marines and another a Lt Commander, Canadian Navy.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 05:54 PM

Leadfingers is ex RAF, Teribus is a matelot, I was what you'd disdainfully call a pongo...let's rise up and depose all these bloody teachers. The b*ggers do get the holidays, though. Sods.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 06:00 PM

A range of occupations that do not require social skills?

I didn't used to teach, but now I also do (lecture).

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: bubblyrat
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 07:16 PM

There"s nothing wrong with pongos !! I spent a very happy Christmas 1968 in a place called Loyang,near RAF Changi ,in Singapore,in a RN married-quarter bungalow( complete with Armah !) along with an Able Seaman , an RAF corporal, and a Pongo called Stan,from Bristol,who was an accomplished classical Guitarist !! Most convivial !! And ,when I was on the Naval Air Command Boat Section up Haslar Creek,in Gosport,there were some splendid army lads there from the Port Service Regiment at St.Georges Barracks !! Every day that they were at sea in their LSTs,they got a tot of rum,while the Navy"s tot had been discontinued-----Oh ! How those boys loved to rub it in !!!

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 07:23 PM

"they got a tot of rum,while the Navy"s tot had been discontinued-----Oh ! How those boys loved to rub it in !!!"

Lubricated and kinky too. What a combo!

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 07:37 PM

I certainly noticed how many teachers there were in the folk clubs of the 60s and 70s and put it down to their 'performing in front of an audience' skills. Curiously, I did the opposite. Learnt my performing skills in folk clubs, then went on to teach in a university.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: GUEST,Captain Swing
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 08:12 PM

Uninspired, dull, out of touch with the real world, full of their own self importance, complacent .............. need I go on?
Sums up both communities I think.

Captain Swing (a teacher and ex folkie)

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: GUEST,Captain Swing
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 08:18 PM

Sorry, forgot to mention, obesessively concerned with how things used to be.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 08:19 PM

People didn't talk like that in the old days.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: GUEST,Arnie
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 09:02 PM

At my folk club we had not one, but two school heads, plus three teachers. We're now down to only one school head and no teachers due to them all getting cheesed off and taking early retirement. On the Forces side, my nephew is a RM commando and is learning banjo - I had thought to tell him to learn a proper instrument, like a guitar, but decided this may be a bit risky in view of his training..... Not sure if they have folk clubs in Afghanistan, but when they do, he may well find he's in demand!!

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 09:15 PM

I hope your nephew stays safe, Arnie.

I also hope the banjo is not perceived as a weapon of mass destruction.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: number 6
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 09:36 PM

One of the finest folk artists here in Saint John (if not New Brunswick) is a mailman. Another that I know who is an unknown, but has one the most harmonic voices I ever heard is a fisherman from Dipper Harbour New Brunswick.

biLL

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Rasener
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 02:17 AM

Teaching profession, now retired I beleive. Still singing.

Graham Moore Graham Moore

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Sooz
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 02:38 AM

Many of us spend our days performing to a largely unwilling audience and it is good therapy to perform to an appreciative crowd at the folk club!
I was a folkie long before I was a teacher btw.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Rasener
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 03:09 AM

So is it the folk music that drives people to becoming teachers?

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 03:45 AM

In my case the question can be reversed! I was a "folkie" for 20 years before training to be a teacher. Of course, the "teacher" connection has resulted in lots of folk clubs in the UK closing down for the school holidays in the summer.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 04:38 AM

According to Richard Stillgoe and Peter Skellern, they're Quantity Surveyors!

LTS

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Alec
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 04:41 AM

And a disproportionately large number of the Morrismen I have known have been Architects.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: shepherdlass
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 05:17 AM

3 possible reasons (from a non-teacher) :-

Teachers - passing information down the generations.
Tradition - passing music, etc, down the generations.

Also, standing up to face a folk club might be considered good preparation for potential teachers. There are some folkies whose heckling is so developed not even the most dysfunctional child could come close.

And - 6 weeks holiday in summer = freedom to attend summer festivals.

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Muttley
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 07:26 AM

As a 'chalkie' myself and also one who has been botha paramedic and a Youth Worker in my evil past; I would concur with Little Hawk who wrote: "Folk music was always the style of music that most focused on lyrical content.....words....therefore it tends to attract people who are strong in their literacy skills. It also tends to attract people who are interested in knowing about past history in detail. It's just natural that people who are drawn to folk music would also tend to be the types who would go into teaching."

Alec backed this one up; and I think, correctly. Little Robyn also made a very valid observation in that (apparently in NZ) a lot of 'Folk Clubs' got a start at Teachers Colleges and such - it happened here in Australia, too.

Less so these days.

I must admit, it's the history buff inside me that hungers for the folk music I crave and the "need" to pass on history, custom and legend through music and song that drives me.

I'm not sure there are a LOT of teachers involved in Folk these days though; maybe the profession is attracting a diffeent type of persona? A helluva lot of teachers I know aren't at all interested in folk music and a lot more couldn't carry a tune in a bucket let alone PLAY!

However, I do have one question for Capt. Ginger:

What makes you connect Aspergers and Folk?

I have to ask because I am a teacher, a folkie and also an Aspie (that's what Asperger's people prefer to call themselves.

Muttley

Subject: RE: Why does 'folk' attract so many teachers
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 07:40 AM

Merely an observation, based on seeing many of the traits reflected in and around folk music followers - poor pick-up of social cues, an obsessive interest in a subject, unusual tics and an astonishing ability with a particular instrument or style that isn't reflected in other aspects of the person.
As I say, it was an observation and not intended as perjorative.