Lyr Req: The Old Songs (Copper/Bellamy)

Subject: LyrReq: The Old Songs
From: rob d.
Date: 24 Mar 99 - 06:33 PM

I am looking to see if anyone has already in their possession the lyric to a song that has the following chorus:
The old songs, the old songs
That gave our fathers joy
The songs they sang made the ??? rang
When Nelson was a boy

It is the only song I know of that has the word "gormless" (or "ghormless"??). For that alone...

Subject: RE: LyrReq: The Old Songs
From: Barbara
Date: 24 Mar 99 - 07:45 PM

Gormless -- lacking in gorm; spineless, right?

Subject: RE: LyrReq: The Old Songs
From: rob d.
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 12:37 PM

Barbara,

re: gormless

That sounds like it. The singer refers to something like "your gormless songs", as being nothing like the "Old Songs".

Wish I could find this lyric!?!

Subject: RE: LyrReq: The Old Songs
From: bigJ
Date: 27 Mar 99 - 05:10 PM

Subject: RE: LyrReq: The Old Songs
From: bigJ
Date: 27 Mar 99 - 05:16 PM

The song is one sung by Peter Bellamy on a cassette called 'Songs An' Rummy Conjuring Tricks' on the Fellside label FSC 5. From memory I think it was written by Bob Copper - yes, he of the Copper Family. I haven't got the words, but a local singer performs it and I'll try and get them from him. He sings, 'The songs they sang made the welkin (the sky) ring'.

Subject: RE: LyrReq: The Old Songs
From: rob d.
Date: 29 Mar 99 - 01:16 PM

I hunkered down and managed to put together most of the lyric myself. But I'm still missing a bit or few, and some of the words are likely wrong, so, if you were just able to come up with those bits, I would be ever so grateful, and there would be another song for the DT.

thanks

Here's what I've got:

The Old Songs by Bob Copper?
Oh you may moan with plaintive tone your gormless modern tune
But I will roar along the shore beneath a blood red moon
And songs that Nelson's sailors sang shall ring across the wave
And-a fifty-thousand sailor men will join the chorus brave
A chorus brave and tarry that ??save us of?? the sea
And-a fifty-thousand sailor men will rise to sing with me
The old songs, yes the old songs, that gave our fathers joy
The songs they sang till the welkin rang
When Nelson was a boy

Or in the dusty sunlit barn, a farmer's song I'll sing
A country rhyme to a rhythmic time, of flails do pump and swing
Full up and down the threshin' floor to win the golden grain
And-a fifty-thousand thresher men will join the bold refrain
A bold refrain and fearless that's springs from English soil
And-a fifty-thousand thresher men will join my song of toil

The old songs, yes the old songs, that gave our fathers joy
The songs they sang till the welkin rang
When Nelson was a boy

Or in the depths of cellar cool reclining for a bench
When I've dispersed an honest thirst that ale alone can quench
I will ???NO IDEA WHAT THIS IS??? in praise of barley brew
And a fifty-thousand drinking men will join the chorus true
A chorus true and hearty of hops and barley malt
And a fifty-thousand drinking men will prove they're worth their salt

The old songs, yes the old songs, that gave our fathers joy
The songs they sang till the welkin rang
When Nelson was a boy

They will echo onward down the years and never, ever fade
For fifty-thousand singing men will never be afraid
For to raise their lusty voices, their spirits to revive
And tell to all eterni-tie "we're glad that we're alive"
^^

Subject: RE: LyrReq: The Old Songs
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 22 Jan 01 - 11:13 AM

The song index of Sing Out! magazine says that "The Old Songs" was written by Bob Copper AND Peter Bellamy, and that it appeared in volume 36, number 1, on page 20.

I hope some Mudcat member has this issue and can supply the words that are missing in the above transcription. It would make a good addition to DT.

Subject: RE: LyrReq: The Old Songs
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jan 01 - 12:11 PM

"chorus brave and tarry that savours of the sea"

["savors" for the Americans]

"I'll wake the vaulted echoes wide in praise of barley-brew

Subject: Lyr Add: THE OLD SONGS (S.M. Peck, 1906)^^
From: Stewart
Date: 22 Jan 01 - 12:36 PM

This is not the song you're looking for, but a poem with the same title. Found in a great old songbook of mine - "Home Songs", Oliver-Ditson Co., 1906.

THE OLD SONGS
(Samuel Minturn Peck)

I want to hear the old songs,
The songs I used to hear,
When every day brought happiness,
And Fancy flouted fear;
When sunset's glory ever new,
Foretold a morn more bright —
I want to hear the old songs,
Oh, sing me one tonight.

I want to hear the old songs,
No trilling, no roulade,
Where music dons her lace and gems
And trips in masquerade,
But give to me the simple strain
That seeks the heart outright,
And nests within its deepest part —
Ah, sing me one tonight.

I want to hear the old songs,
Their names I need not tell;
The quaint old names mean naught to you,
But I can feel their spell.
Each one, a key, can ope to me
The garden of delight
That blossomed in my vanished youth —
Oh, sing me one tonight.

I want to hear the old songs —
I never hear them now —
The tunes that cheer the tired heart
And smooth the care-worn brow.
Heard in the twilight's dreamy hour,
Best suited to their flight,
Each cadence like a blessing falls —
Ah, sing me one tonight.

I want to hear the old songs,
The gentle lullabies
That reft me of my weariness,
And closed my childish eyes;
The fabled music of the spheres
Beside those strains would blight.
The dear old songs my mother sang —
Oh, sing me one tonight.


SAMUEL MINTURN PECK, 1906

Cheers, S. in Seattle ^^

Subject: RE: LyrReq: The Old Songs
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 22 Jan 01 - 01:08 PM

Thanks, Guest and Stewart. I'll see that both songs get passed on to DT.

Subject: RE: LyrReq: The Old Songs
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jan 01 - 11:14 PM

Checking this thread again I see my earlier post was attributed to "guest" and was incomplete. Computer foibles - we'll see if this one gets attribution.

The song is a poem of Bob Copper set to music by Peter Bellamy. The phrase "Wake the vaulted echoes," from this song, was used as the title of the retrospective CD of Peter Bellamy's put out by Free Reed a year or so ago.

Subject: RE: LyrReq: The Old Songs
From: Anglo
Date: 22 Jan 01 - 11:18 PM

Ah, apparently my cookie was eaten. I am now disguested, I trow.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE OLD SONGS (Copper/Bellamy)
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 Jan 01 - 01:41 PM

I felt sure I had this somewhere, and have now found it in English Dance and Song (volume 52 number 3; October 1990).  I hope that Rob won't mind if I quote it in full rather than as annotations to his transcription.


THE OLD SONGS
(Words by Bob Copper, tune by Peter Bellamy)

O, you can moan with plaintive tone your gormless modern tune,
But I will roar along the shore beneath a blood-red moon,
And songs that Nelson's sailors sang shall ring across the wave
And fifty thousand sailor-men shall join the chorus brave
The chorus brave and tarry that savours of the sea,
For fifty thousand sailor-men shall rise to sing with me.

Or in the dusty, sunlit barn a farmer's song I'll sing,
A country rhyme to a rhythmic time of flails that thump and swing
All up and down the threshing floor to win the golden grain,
And fifty thousand threshermen shall join the bold refrain,
The bold refrain and fearless that springs from English soil,
For fifty thousand threshermen shall join my song of toil.

Or in the depths of cellar cool reclining on a bench,
When I've dispersed an honest thirst that ale alone can quench,
I'll wake the vaulted echoes wide in praise of barley-brew,
And fifty thousand drinking men shall join the chorus true,
The chorus true and hearty of hops and barley-malt,
For fifty thousand drinking men shall prove they're worth their salt.

The old songs, yes, the old songs that gave our fathers joy,
The songs they sang till the welkin rang when Nelson was a boy,
Will echo onward down the years and never, never fade,
For fifty thousand singing men will never be afraid
To raise their lusty voices their spirits to revive
And tell to all eternity, "We're glad that we're alive."


Bob Copper originally wrote this as a poem around 1945; the above is his revised version of 1984, which Peter Bellamy set to music.  Bob had this to say about it, in an interview with Peter for Sing Out! magazine conducted in 1970:

"I felt as if I was the only man in the country who thought the old songs were worth saving...we had no idea of the existence of the English Folk Song Society, even though [in 1897] Granddad had been instrumental in its formation...I was frantically trying to find someone who was interested in these things and who shared my feelings for them.  I even became a member of the Sussex Archaeological Society, and I wrote to them saying that I was in possession of a large number of songs which I considered to be as important as a part of Sussex history as any bit of flint, or old tomb or piece of old furniture (though I was interested in those too), and much more vulnerable, but that didn't come to anything.  Anyway, this reflects what I was feeling at the time."

Obviously, both text and melody are copyright.  The chorus given by Rob seems to have been introduced later on.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: LyrReq: The Old Songs
From: GUEST,Rob D.
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 06:53 PM

I started this thread 2 years ago. I despaired of ever finding the missing words. To my amazement, I now discover that I've had the lyric for quite some time, just didn't know it. Would that I had known the source of the title of the utterly fantastic CD Celebration of Peter Bellamy was also the line that I could not make out from this great song.

Wake the Vaulted Echos!!

Ten Thousand thanks to Malcolm for rescuing this lyric for me. I will now be singing this song along with my many other favorite songs about songs and singing.

Now I need to check and see if anyone has come thru on the "Free and Equal Blues"...

rob d.

Subject: Old Songs
From: GUEST,Beth Hacker
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 08:52 PM

Hi,
I am looking for a old song, all I know is it says, if Iwould of listen to what mama said, I be home in my feather bed. Thanks so much. Beth hacker

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Old Songs
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 09:02 PM

Is it Hand Me Down My Walking Cane Beth?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Old Songs
From: Stewie
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 09:09 PM

It could be 'Dink's Song':   Click Here.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Old Songs
From: Gurney
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 03:44 AM

Right at the beginning of this thread (March 99!) some seemed not to know what 'Gormless' meant. It means stupid, dullwitted.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Old Songs
From: Alio
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 04:32 AM

'Old Songs' is also on Th'Antique Roadshow's CD (they do it really well) - unfortunately I can't rermember the title of the album! Oh well!

Ali

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Old Songs
From: open mike
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 12:13 PM

Last night for the first itme i heard
"The Old Songs" song, the one by Peck
as found in home songs book in thread
from 22 jan 01 12:36. The singer added
this chorus:

    I want to hear the old songs, So sing me one tonight

    sing me one tonight, boys, sing me one tonight

    cuz i want to hear the old songs, sing me one tonight

I am SO glad to be able to find the lyrics on the 'CAT!!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Old Songs
From: kendall
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 12:44 PM

Joan Sprung used to sing one..."I can not sing the old songs...and foolish tears would flow."

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Old Songs
From: GUEST,Anne Croucher
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 06:50 PM

When I wanted to sing Bob Copper's song I could not make out the tune - I had the dots but despite many attempts I can't learn how to make a tune of the notes (hedgehog song - know all the words sing all the notes never quite learned the song)

However - if you look at the words - the first verse goes to the Song of the Western Men (Trelawney), the second to the Farmer's boy, the third to John Barleycorn - the fourth verse a tune just arrived out of nowhere - so it doesn't really need a tune of its own, the tunes are inbuilt. go back to 'Twenty thousand cornishmen' for the chorus tumpty tumpty..... fifty thousand whatevers. You can throw in a bit of a harvest hymn tune in the chorus of the second verse (from we plough the fields and scatter the good seed...)just to show off.

I realise that this is no use to anyone wanting to make recordings but it is really good to sing. If I ever find the proper music then I might change to it - but it would have to be a bloody good tune.

Anne

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Old Songs
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 08:48 PM

See links above for a midi of Peter Bellamy's tune.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'The Old Songs' (Copper/Bellamy)
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 06:55 PM

My grandmother sang only the first verse as far as I can remember, but it went like this:

Oh Mother how pretty the moon is tonight.
She was never so pretty before.
With her two little horns up there in flight,
She was never rocked better before.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'The Old Songs' (Copper/Bellamy)
From: pdq
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 07:07 PM

SING US SOME OF THE OLD SONGS

Ah, play us some of the old songs
Like you used to play
Oh sing us some of the old songs
And roll the years away
Lots of old and friendly faces
See them walking in
Saying sing us some of the old songs
Make us young again
Go on and sing us some of the old songs
Make us young again

Two hours late from Abilene
Climbing on the stage
Hail the conquering hero
On the Tribune's second page
He had some brand new songs to sing them
And some heavy things to say
When a voice called from a table
About twenty years away

Ah, play us some of the old songs
Like you used to play
Oh sing us some of the old songs
And roll the years away
Lots of old and friendly faces
See them walking in
Saying sing us some of the old songs
Make us young again
Go on and sing us some of the old songs
Make us young again

Well, well, well...who's that calling
Well, well, well...night is falling
Spirit is a moving all over this land
God told Noah to build him an ark
And the rains started falling and the skies got dark
The old ark moving the water starts to climb
God said a fire not a flood next time

Well, well, well...who's that calling
Well, well, well...night is falling
Spirit is a moving all over this land
World's not waiting for the Lord's command
We're building a fire that'll sweep the land
With thunder out of heaven coming Gabriel's call
The sea's gonna boil and the skies gonna fall

Well, well, well...who's that calling
Well, well, well...night is falling
Spirit is a moving all over this land
God said fire coming judgement day
All mankind is going to pass away
Now brothers and sisters don't you know?
You're going to reap just what you sow?

Well, well, well...who's that calling
Well, well, well...night is falling
Spirit is a moving all over this land
Well, well, well...who's that calling
Well, well, well...night is falling
Spirit is a moving all over this land

Ah, play us some of the old songs
Like you used to play
Oh sing us some of the old songs
And roll the years away
Lots of old and friendly faces
See them walking in
Saying sing us some of the old songs
Make us young again
Go on and sing us some of the old songs
Make us young again

They call me daddy...Daddy roll 'em
They call me daddy roll 'em down
And when I roll 'em...Oh daddy roll 'em
Oh daddy really roll 'em down down
They call me daddy...Daddy drive 'em
The call me daddy drive 'em down

Ah, play us some of the old songs
Like you used to play
Oh sing us some of the old songs
And roll the years away
Lots of old and friendly faces
See them walking in
Saying sing us some of the old songs
Make us young again
Go on and sing us some of the old songs
Make us young again

Subject: Old Songs
From: GUEST,Geoff Ward
Date: 13 Sep 13 - 05:49 PM

Margaret MacArthur sings Old Songs on the album of the same name, 1976. A different song but I want to track where it came from, etc.
[e-mail]

Subject: Lyr Add: THE OLD SONGS (from Coleman Hawkins)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 05:40 PM

This seems to be the place to post lyrics that have "Old Songs" in the title. I may dredge up a few more.


THE OLD SONGS
As recorded by Coleman Hawkins and a female vocalist unknown to me, 1946 or '47

The old songs are bringing memory of you:
The things that you and I used to do,
Songs like "The Old Mill Stream"
And "I Wonder Who's Kissing Her Now?"
Have you forgotten what what they mean?
I just can't somehow.
I love you; that's something I'll always do.
Life has been empty away from you.
Oh, how I wish we'd get together as we used to do.
The old songs are bringing memories of you.

Subject: Lyr Add: HOW I LOVE THEM OLD SONGS (Mickey Newbury
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 27 Sep 13 - 04:39 PM

You can hear this on YouTube. Carl Smith was the first to record it, but several others have as well. Here's my transcription:


HOW I LOVE THEM OLD SONGS
Written by Mickey Newbury
As recorded by Carl Smith, 1970.

Doggone my soul, how I love them old songs!
They were a comfort to me when I was alone.
The dancin' stops but the music goes on.
Doggone my soul, how I love them old songs!

Now when I hear that double-eagle guitar,
It makes me think how trouble-free, girl, we are.
There was a time I spent my nights in a bar,
Playin' that old juke box until the honky-tonk locks up and—

Doggone my mind; [it] just won't leave me alone.
[It] keeps on remindin' me I'm so far from home.
Those heart-breakin', achin', eggs-and-bacon country songs
Take me back to hardwood floors, outdoor johns, and mason jars.

It's all I can do to believe that it's gone,
That hard-knockin', rock-n-rollin' life that I've known,
But the dancin' is over and the music must go on.
Doggone my soul, how I love them old songs!