Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom

Subject: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 09:39 PM

Looking for the earliest verifiable printing of thus verse:

Oh, Freedom, Oh, Freedom
Oh Freedom over me
And before I'd be a slave
I'll be buried in my grave
And go home to my Lord and be free.

It has been attributed to Black soldiers of the Civil War, to the Labor movement, and to the Civil Rights movement.
Other verses from various sources have been attached to it (See DT).

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Azizi
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 11:39 PM

Q, while this is not an answer to your question about the earliest earliest verifiable printing of the song "O Freedom/O Freedom over me", I thought you and others might be interested in this quote from Maud Cuney-Hare's 1936 book "Negro Musicians And Their Music"
{Da Capo Press reproduction of the original printed by The Associated Publishers, Inc. from a copy in the Indiana University Library collection; pps 68-71}:

"There are now many collections of Negro folk songs available. In the songs herein noted are those that are best known and which might be regarded as "master songs". They are chosen with the hope that the history of each particular one may be of value to serious students. Here are songs of triumphant faith, of solace and comfort, of tribulation, and secular songs pertaining to labor and recreation, love and childhood.
...

"Swing Low, Sweet Chariot", an American Negro Spiritual" in the pentatonic scale, noted in "Fisk Jubilee Songs, 1871, offers a key to this development. The variantgs of this song are "Good Ole Chariot", "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot" {Hampton{ and "The Danville Chariot".
...
William Arms Fisher, who has given the melody a setting for solo voice and piano, tells an interesting story about the song, which was told to him by Bishop Frederick Fisher of Calcutta, India, who has recently returned from Central Africa. He relates:
'Bishop Fisher stated that in Rhodesia he had heard the natives sing a melody so closely resembling "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot" that he felt that he had found its original form'...

In American, it is told that the song arose from an incident which happened to a woman sold from a Mississippi plantation to Tennessee. Rather than be separated from her child, she was about to drown herself and the little one in the Cumberland River, when she was prevented by an old Negro woman, who exclaimed, "Wait, let de Cgariot of de Lord swing low and let me take de Lord's scroll and read it to you". The heart-brokened mother became consoled and was reconciled to the parting. The song became known with the passing on of this story, which seems more legendary than real.

Among these songs several others of unusual importance should be noted. "My lord Deliverd Daniel" in major key of G, with a variant from Florida "O Daniel," and another title of the original in Kentucky. "Wrestling Jacob" with four variants, "My Lord What A Morning"", from the Southeastern Slave states, "A New Hiding Place" with the same theme, "I Want To Be Ready", from Kentucky, with such variants as "Walk Jerusalem Jes Like John" and "Walk Into Jerusalem Jest Like John", and "When I Come To Die". Next tere was the "Old Ship Of Zion", from Maryland and Virginia, with many variants like "Don't You See The Ship a Sailing?" and "In the Old Ship Don't Weep After Me", "Inching Along," "Keep a Inching Along," from Alabama, "Go Down Moses", an interpretation of Hebrew History with varinats from Virginaia and the Bahamas. As the Lord delivered the Jews so would He the Negroes. We note also "Did not Old Pharoah Get Lost", "When Moses Smote the Water", and "Turn Back Pharoah's Army", "When the Lord Called Moses," belonging to this same class.

Of another type was "Nobody Knows The Trouble I've Seen" or "Nobody Knows the Trouble I See", or "Nobody Knows the Trouble I See, Lord," originally from the Sea Islands. "Sometimes I Feel Like A Motherless Child," from Mississippi, "I am Troubled in Mind,", "O My Body Racked Wid de Fever", from Georgia, with a version "I'm a Trouble in de Mind," from Port Royal Islands, "Don't Be Weary Traveler", from Virginia, "Let us Cheer the Weary Traveler", from Kentucky; "I Long To See the Day", of major node, probably known first from the Bahama Islands; "There's A Meeting Her Tonight", probably noted first form Port Royal Islands; and "My Way is Cloudy", found in several places.

Then there are two distinct types of slave songs, although there are but few songs using the practice of slavery as a theme in the text. Some of these are "Many Thousands Gone", "No More Auction Block For Me", and "Is Master Going To Sell us Tomorrow?". Then there are such songs as "O'er the Crossing.", from Virginia, with variants as "My Body Racked wid Fever" from Port Royal Islands, "O Yonder's My Ole Mother,", and "My God Called Daniel". Next one notes "The Gospel Train" with variants like "Get On Board", from the Bahamas. and "From Every Graveyard" and "Get On Board Little Children", heard in many places. Widely reported, too, is "Roll Jordan Roll", in E major showing use of the flat seventh, a variant of the Bahama song, "I Long To See The Day". Well known also was "Somebody Knocking at Yo' Door", with the version, "O Sinner You;d better Get Ready".

There are striking examples of Burial Hymns developed from the custom of sitting up and singing over the dead. Among them are "These Are My Father's Children", noted with the variant, "Siiner in de Morning," which has two other variants, "These Are My Father's Children", from North Carolina, and "The TRouble of the World". A fine funeral song is "I Know Moon Rise", reported frirst from Georgia. Impressive also are "Graveyard", and "Lay This Body Down", first noted from Port Royal."

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Azizi
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 11:44 PM

let me correct a couple of typos that I made while reproducing that section from Maud Cuney-Hare's book:

"There's A Meeting Here Tonight", probably noted first from Port Royal Islands; and "My Way is Cloudy", found in several places.

-snip-

Sorry about that and the other typos.

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Willa
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 09:14 AM

Came upon this reference when I was looking for information last year, but cannot open the link now. Don't know whether it will help.

http://www.assumption.edu/dept/history/His130/neh%20curricular/SingTwoStanzas.html
Perhaps the most poignant song of the discontent and rebellious slave was "Oh Freedom." This song contained no dual meaning and its singing was punishable by the lash or death. This was the "theme song" if you will, of the black rebel. He refused to be enslaved any longer and was openly willing to die for his freedom.

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 01:36 PM

Willa, have you any evidence that the song was ever sung during the slavery period?

I suspect that it may have been composed by Contrabandist soldiers, or about the time of the Civil War, but I have no evidence of that either. It may be later.

Azizi, interesting post, but no answer there.

Digression- No evidence I can find that "A Meeting Here Tonight," included by Allen in his 1867 book, meant anything other than a religious get-together prior to the Civil War period. It was first collected by Oliphant in 1856, with the first lines, "Oh, I takes my text in Matthew and by de Revelation, I know you by your garment, Dere's a meeting here tonight." See Dena J. Epstein, "Sinful Tunes and Spirituals, Black Music to the Civil War." Univ. Illinois Press.

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 02:26 PM

Q, I was aware that that passage that I quoted didn't answer the question you asked. But, I'd been looking for a thread to post it.

Btw, I don't think that Maud Cuney-Hare's book mentions the "Oh Freedom" song. I would be surprised if this song was composed before the end of the Civil War.

Is there any evidence that "Oh Freedom"'s beginning words at least are a secular adaptation of the "Oh Canaan" or other O {Oh} spirituals?

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 03:18 PM

Azizi, do you mean the pre-Civil War hymn (earlier than 1807)-
O who will come and go with me? With a chorus or verse:
O Canaan, Sweet Canaan,
I am bound for the land of Canaan.
O Canaan, it is my happy home,
I am bound for the land of Canaan.

I see nothing in Mudcat except a revised chorus by Brumley, so I am starting a new thread for this hymn and its variants.

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Willa
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 03:26 PM

Hi Q

Should have made it clear that my post was a quote. here's the reference.
Sing two Stanzas and Rebel in the Morning' Marcella Monk Flake http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1997/5/97.05.07.x.html

I got the song from Songs of the Civil War p 274 Irwin Silber (Ed), with this comment:

'It is doubtful that this song… could possibly have come into being prior to Jan 1 1863, when the Emancipation Proclamation was issued. In fact, it is more than likely that 'Oh Freedom' grew out of the Proclamation and was sung as a communal reaction to the news of freedom.'

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Willa
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 03:35 PM

Azizi
Graveyard and Lay this Body down are items 21 and 26 in this electronic songbook
http://docsouth.unc.edu/church/allen/allen.html

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 04:45 PM

"Azizi, do you mean the pre-Civil War hymn (earlier than 1807)-
O who will come and go with me? With a chorus or verse:
O Canaan, Sweet Canaan."

Yes. I only know this song from reading about it. I'm assuming that this is the song that Frederick Douglass indicates that he sung {and the others who escaped freedom along with him}. However, I don't know if there is any documentation that this was the exact song that Douglas referred to.

**

Willa, thank you for that information. Here's that blue clicky:
http://docsouth.unc.edu/church/allen/allen.html

**

Q, I found lyrics for "Before I'd Be A Slave {Oh, Freedom} on the negrospirituals.com website. That website indicates that this song is "from « Old Plantation Hymns » by William E. Barton, 1899

Do you already have this information?

These lyrics may already be posted on a Mudcat thread, but I'll write them again in my next post.

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 04:46 PM

Lyr. Add: Dar'll Be No Mo' Slavery
Coll. E. M. Backus, North Carolina

1.
Dar'll be no mo' sighing, no mo' sighing,
O, no mo' sighing ober me, ober me;
An' befo' I'll be a slave,
I'll be carried to my grave,
And go home to my Lord an' be free.
2.
Dar'll be no mo' crying, no mo' crying,
O no mo' crying ober me,
An' befo' I'll be a slave,
I'll be carried to my grave,
An' go home to my Lord and be free.
3.
Dar'll be no mo' weeping, no mo' weeping,
O no mo' weeping ober me, ober me,
An' befo' I'll be a slave,
I'll be carried to my grave,
An' go home to my Lord and be free.
4.
Dar'll be no mo' slavery, no mo' slavery,
O no mo' slavery ober Dar, ober Dar,
An' befo' I;ll be a slave,
I'll be carried to my grave,
An' go home to my Lord and be free.

Writing in 1894, the collector, Mrs. E. M. Backus, said, "The following cradle-song is still to be heard in the cabins of the Negroes of this state; it has the sound of a wild triumphant death chant:-" High Point, North Carolina.
Although called a cradle-song because it was sung as such, I have given the song a name based on the first line of the last verse.
The 'Before I'll be a slave' verse has not yet been found in Civil War song, but its occurrence in the 1890s strongly suggests that its origin is there.
Journal of American Folk-Lore, 1894, vol. 7, no. 27, p. 310, submitted by E. M. Backus.

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 04:47 PM

BEFORE I'D BE A SLAVE (OH, FREEDOM)

from « Old Plantation Hymns »
by William E. Barton, 1899

Before I'd be a slave
I'd be buried in my grave
And go home to my Lord
And be saved

O, what preachin'!
O, what preachin'!
O, what preachin' over me, over me

O, what mourning…

O, what singing…

O, what shouting…

O, weeping Mary…

Doubting Thomas…

O, what sighing

O, Freedom…


http://www.negrospirituals.com/news-song/before_i_d_be_slave_oh_freedom.htm

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 04:50 PM

Notice the last line of that version found in Barton's
"Old Plantation Hymns" is "and go home to my Lord and be saved" and not "and go home to my Lord and be free".

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Willa
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 05:58 PM

Thanks, Q and Azizi, for that extra info

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 06:02 PM

William E. Barton published "Before I'd Be a Slave," with score, in New England Magazine, vol. 25, issue 5, Jan. 1899, p. 617, in the article "Hymns of the Slave and the Freedman."
("Old Plantation Hymns" was the title of an article published in the preceeding year. It is one of several errors in citation in the online negrospirituals.com).

Collected from "Uncle Joe Williams." "He always hired his time from his master and made money enough to pay for his labor, and had a good start towards buying his wife and children when freedom came. But this was the hymn he loved to sing, sitting before his door in the twilight."

The last verse posted by Azizi, , 'O Freedom,' does not appear in the article by Barton; it is an add-on by someone at negrospirituals.com.

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 08:24 PM

Q, is the last line of the song as quoted in that William E. Barton article "and go home to my Lord and be saved"? Or does it say
and go home to my Lord and be free?

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 08:44 PM

For what it's worth, I skimmed through Thomas W. Talley's 1922 "Negro Folk Songs" and Dorothy Scarborough's 1925 "On The Trail Of Negro Folk Songs" looking for any song that had the words
"O Freedom" or the verse "And before I be a slave/I'll be buried in my grave" and go home to my Lord and be free" {or "and be saved"}.

Neither book has any verse that is remotely similar to that.

Both these books have the "poor mourner/you will be free/when the good Lord sets you free" verse which was often used as a chorus. And there are a few other songs in both books that mention being free.

I think that its most likely that O Freedom was composed after the Civil War. If it is based on any song, I bet that it was a spiritual and not a secular song.

That said, secular songs often have a religious or serious chorus, such as the "poor mourner" example that I referred to. So sometimes the line separating what is a religious song and what is a secular song might be blurry...except that you only do a holy dance when you sang religious songs and you could do all kinds of other moves, such as crossing your legs, when you dance to the devil's music...

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 08:55 PM

Somewhat off topic:

An example of a floating verse found in both religious and non-religious songs is:

If you get there before I do,
Then praise the Lord, I'm coming too

[or "tell my friends I'm coming too"]

This verse is found in thread.cfm?threadid=99117&messages=12#1971115

Variations of these lyrics are found in a Bo Diddley song whose title I can't remember now:

"If I get to heaven before you do
I'll try to poke a hole and pull you through".

"If you aren't there by judgment day
then I'll know, baby, you went the other way."

-snip-

I believe that there was a line used as a refrain between each of these lines-maybe its the title of the song...

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 09:00 PM

Azizi, neither one. All verses end with 'over me, over me!' The refrain is the one ending 'be saved.'

For clarity, here is the whole text From Barton:

BEFORE I'D BE A SLAVE
Refrain.
Before I be a slave,
I'd be buried in my grave,
And go home to my Lord and be saved.
1.
O, what preachin'! O, what preachin'!
O, what preachin' over me, over me!
2.
O, what mourning, etc.
3.
O, what singing, etc.
4.
O, what shouting, etc.
5.
O, weeping Mary, etc.
6.
Doubting Thomas, etc.
7.
O, what sighing, etc.

Barton, a D. D., remarked, in his first article, "Old Plantation Hymns," "Conspicuous among the religious songs of the colored people, as of the white people in the Cumberland Mountains, is the large group of "Family Songs," in which the chief or only variation in the successive stanzas is the substitution of "father," "mother," or other relative in order. He gives as a prime example the greeting hymn, "Howdy, Howdy!"

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 09:20 PM

Thanks, Q.

**

Not that it's pertinent to this discussion, but that Bo Diddley song I was trying to remember is "Dearest Darling".

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 09:38 PM

Mentioned it in another thread recently, but also should be mentioned here- "The New England Magazine" is on line.

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Richie
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 11:32 AM

Missing in this thread is the info from Barton about the song:

But there is one hymn which I used often to hear which speaks the freedman's joy in his new manhood. I have heard it sung sometimes in the North by companies of educated jubilee singers, who introduce it with the lines,

"Holy Bible! Holy Bible! Holy Bible, Book Divine, Book Divine!" But I never heard these words sung as a verse of this or any native plantation hymn in the South. Their references to the Bible are few, and such as are given in the songs of this series, namely, allusions to wellknown narrative portions of Scripture. The "Holy Bible" stanza was probably the addition of some "reading preacher." It is quite as appropriate, however, as those which are sung to the song in the South; for the freedman, preferring death to slavery, and singing his solemn joy in a strong and stirring strain, comforts himself in the thought of the possibility of death, with the details of the first-class funeral, in which he is to play the chief role. Such a funeral as is described in this hymn is, next to heaven, the desire of the average colored man even in a state of grace. But apart from all this, which may provoke a smile, there is something that thrills one in the words:

"Before I'd be a slave,

I'd be buried in my grave,

And go home to my Lord and be saved!"

There's a version of this called: Holy Bible! The lyrics are found on-line. Perhaps thsi is the source song,

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 05:03 PM

The following is quoted from John W. Work, 1915, Folk Song of the American Negro, reprint 1969, Negro Universities Press; pp. 78-80. It expands on a story quoted by Azizi:

""Swing Low, Sweet Chariot" and "Before I'd-be a Slave," upon first hand authority, may be called the "Twins," for they burst from the same soul of anguish. These songs were born from the same heart at the same time and under the same condition.

"Before I'd be a slave,
I'd be buried in my grave,
And a-don't let it catch you with your work undone.

A master of a Tennessee plantation had sold a mother from her babe, and the day for the separation was fast approaching when the mother was to be taken "down South." Now, the condition of the slave in Tennessee was better than in any other state, with the possible exception of Virginia. To be sold "South" was, to the slave, to make the journey from which no traveler ever returned. So it was not strange that the mother would sooner take her life and that of her babe, then to go down into Mississippi, which, to her, was goin to her grave. Bent upon throwing herself and her child over the steep banks of the Cumberland River, she was stumbling along the dusty road, her infant clasped close to her breast, muttering in frenzy her dire determination. "Before I'd be a slave, I'd be buried in my grave!" An old "mammy,' seeing the terrib expression on her face, and hearing these words, read her intentions. In love she laid her dear old hand upon the shoulder of the distressed mother and said, "Don't you do it, honey; wait, let the chariot of de Lord swing low, and let me take one of de Lord's scrolls an' read it to you." Then, making a motion and reaching for something and unrolling it, she read, "God's got a great work for dis baby to do; she's goin' to stand befo' kings and queens. Don't you do it, honey."
The mother was so impressed with the words......she allowed herself to be taken off.... leaving her baby behind. The prophecy of the old "mammy" was literally fulfilled. After the war, the baby girl entered Fisk University and was a member of the original Fisk Jubilee Singers...... When the tour of the singers was ended, this girl set out to find her mother........found her and brought her into a beautiful home, where she lived in love and comfort until the summer of 1912, when the "Sweet Chariout Swung Low" and bore her home. ............That baby girl was Ella Sheppard, who afterwards became pianist of the Original Jubilee Singers. At the annual meeting of the American Missionary Association........he requested the Fisk Quartette to sing for him "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot"..... A few days later, the chariot swung low and bore the General home.
"Most done toilin' here;
Um! Most done toilin' here!

"This song was born since freedom and is one of the very few real folk songs that were produced by freedom. It is really a new song of Virginia."

Work goes on to give a story about "Great Camp Meeting."

The book of Maud Cuney-Hare has tha same story about the separation of the mother and babe, but does not mention the name of the girl.

Azizi, I think, correctly refers to the story as "legendary;" it is typical of abolitionist stories, and the publicity associated with the Fisk Jubilee Singers.

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: Richie
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 10:14 PM

That's a great story Q thanks for sharing. Here's a version of Holy Bible, no source, had lyrics in my database.

HOLY BIBLE

Holy Bible, Holy Bible
Holy Bible, book divine, book divine
Before I'd be a slave
I'd be buried in my grave
And go home to my Father
And be saved

O what weeping, Oh what weeping
O what weeping over me, over me
Before I'd be a slave
I'd be buried in my grave
And go home to my Father
And be saved

Weeping Mary, weeping Mary
Weeping Mary, weep no more, weep no more
Before I'd be a slave
I'd be buried in my grave
And go home to my Father
And be saved

Doubting Thomas, doubting Thomas
Doubting Thomas, doubt no more, doubt no more
Before I'd be a slave
I'd be buried in my grave
And go home to my Father
And be saved

Great Jehovah, great Jehovah
Great Jehovah, over all, over all
Before I'd be a slave
I'd be buried in my grave
And go home to my Father
And be saved

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: GUEST,Richard
Date: 13 May 10 - 03:16 PM

Thanks Richie, it truely is freedom. I love this song.

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: GUEST,Roddy
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 08:38 PM

Q, you wrote:-
"Digression- No evidence I can find that "A Meeting Here Tonight," included by Allen in his 1867 book, meant anything other than a religious get-together prior to the Civil War period. It was first collected by Oliphant in 1856, with the first lines, "Oh, I takes my text in Matthew and by de Revelation, I know you by your garment, Dere's a meeting here tonight." See Dena J. Epstein, "Sinful Tunes and Spirituals, Black Music to the Civil War." Univ. Illinois Press."

Who was the Oliphant whom you refer to?

Subject: RE: Origins: Oh Freedom, Oh, Freedom
From: GUEST
Date: 05 May 18 - 10:36 AM

still can't remember the secular lyrics sung many years ago by the San Francisco Mime Troupe