BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.

Subject: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 11:29 PM

I guess thats the least that can be done since their homeland has been destroyed. Still, a total of approx. 7,500 is not many when 3.8 million have had to flee since the invasion.

"The United States has allowed only 463 Iraq refugees into the country since the war began in 2003, even though some 3.8 million have been uprooted."

I know that 1.5 million Kurds fled to Iran and Turkey because of Saddam but how many refugees were created when he was in power?

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 09:47 AM

Why aren't they coming to Canada instead of the US? Canada is great and the people there are not mean spirited.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Barry Finn
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 01:20 PM

They didn't help Canada, they helped US. But you can buy your own Iraqis if you want TWO!
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 02:56 PM

"they helped US" Explain.

"you can buy your own Iraqis" Explain.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 01:01 AM

No explanations.

How many Mexicans "Flee" Mexico and enter illegaly into the US every day?

Was their homeland destroyed?

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 02:52 AM

Apples and Oranges, Dickey. Mexicans are not fleeing Mexico. They are seeking economic opportunity in a nation that happens to be next door. Fleeing and seeking are not the same thing.

btw - the majority of Iraqis have fled to Syria and Iran. Seems that Sweden also has its fair share.

C'mon, Dickey, admit it, you don't care about the Iraqi people. You want the U.S. in the Middle East to control the economy and protect Israel. If you really cared, you would give them shelter instead of driving them from their homes. Thats just plain mean-spirited, Dickey.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: autolycus
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 06:37 AM

Were the original Puritans,circa 1620, 'fleeing','seeking' or both?






       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 01:42 PM

"they helped US" Explain.

"you can buy your own Iraqis" Explain.

I welcome all legal immigrants.

I think the pilgrims were fleeing persecution.

I think the Mexicans are fleeing poverty.

I think the Iraqis are fleeing secular violence.

My point is that people all over the world want to come to the US and if the US was so bad, why do they want to come here? Why not Canada which according to some, so much better, so much more peaceful and not mean spirited.

I think that Dianavan meanspiritedly makes simplified statements indicating that something is totally the fault of the US with out any details.

She repeadly defends mean spirited terrorist organizations like Hezbollah and mean spirited countries that do not give a damn about basic human rights like Iran.

There are lot of reasons for people fleeing Iraq. Does Iran have anything to do with this fleeing? al Qaeda?

How many fled because of Saddam? Has anybody tried to determine why they are fleeing? Where did the number come from?

All that is missing but no matter, slogans, banners, the bull horn and the angry clenched fist is still the preferred tool of the militant peace monger.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 01:49 PM

People all over the world want to come to Canada too, Dickey. And they do, in great numbers. How come you didn't know that?

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 06:17 PM

For some reason Fox doesn't mention that. *G*

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 02:52 PM

How many LH?

If America is as bad as the peaceniks claim, why would anybody want to come here?

Still waiting for an expalanation of "they helped US" and

"you can buy your own Iraqis"

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Barry Finn
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 03:37 PM

"They helped us" It seems the Bush has decieded that more Irqais should be let into the country. At the same time there's a push to have those who were used by the US military to help, interpreters etc, in their efforts be allowed to emigrate here, many of course are wounded & mained being thy targets of attacks. That's it. In the past the US has used locals in their efforts in various wars, police actions & etc. I do think that once you've used someone in this manner you have the responsibility to make sure that they are not left to be hung out to dry once the country or area is abandoned if they're in fear of their lives because of their actions. This is something that should be offered up front & thought of before it becomes a part of the stock & trade of war & this should also be part of our costs in a planning stage. When asked for budget money add in the costs of buying Irqais, & their families & the costs to keep them here, healthy. That's all, you have your answer Dickey.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 03:46 PM

"Peaceniks"????? Gosh. What do you call black folks, Dickey, "spearchuckers"? You mean wanting peace is supposed to be a bad thing? ;-)

We have a steady flow of immigrants here, Dickey, from all the usual places: Asia, Latin America, Africa...wherever living standards and salaries are lower than they are in North America or western Europe. We allow as many in on an annual basis as the government deems would not seriously disrupt our society. But many more come in undercover and stay illegally for awhile, just like in the USA. If we had a common border with Mexico, we'd have a real problem....because unlike you Yanks, we have FREE universal health coverage! We are a considerably MORE desirable spot to emigrate to than you are. The reason they go to you first is simply this: you are the easiest and least expensive refuge to physically get to. It does not require purchasing a plane ticket for a Mexican to go to the USA.

Why they want to come to the USA and Canada is totally obvious. We've got a lot of land (specially Canada) with room still for expansion. We've got a First World standard of living. We're not experiencing a domestic war or a violent domestic military government and we're not experiencing massive poverty or starvation.

Why wouldn't they want to come here? They want to come to Holland, Germany, the UK, France, and numerous other places for much the same reasons. People will always emigrate where conditions seem more favorable, and where opportunities seem greater.

Your blind spot is that you seem to think that only applies to the USA. It doesn't.

You know, Americans seem to suffer from this problem: they imagine their nation to be the center of the known Universe. It's not. Neither is it necessarily the "best" place to be in every sense known to man.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 04:46 PM

" I do think that once you've used someone in this manner you have the responsibility to make sure that they are not left to be hung out to dry once the country or area is abandoned if they're in fear of their lives because of their actions."

This is absolutely true but I believe the U.S. should also help Syria and Iran provide($)for the large numbers of refugees who have had to flee as a result of the U.S. invasion in Iraq.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Barry Finn
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 12:07 AM

I paid my taxes & found out that a percentage of it was going to Hezbollah. I am going to ask the US AG to investigate & to return to me that which is mine, Ceasar can keep his share. As for the funny money, I saw Dick Gregory at the copy machine again & I've alerted Homeland Securties & Wall Street.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 12:11 AM

"Does Iran and Syria provide($)for the large numbers of refugees who have had to flee as a result of Hezbollah attacks from Lebanon?"

Had to flee where? From whom?

I was sure that it was Israel who bombed Lebanon. By your logic, it is Israel who should be helping any Lebanese who had to flee as a result of Israeli attacks.

How many have had to flee Lebanon (or Israel for that matter) in the last four years?

How many have had to flee Iraq in the last four years?

You are desperately grasping at straws and your logic and reason are failing you. Get over it.

The Iraqi refugee crisis is the largest since the Palestinians had to flee.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 12:25 AM

Guest - People go BOTH ways across that border seeking various alternatives in medical treatment for various reasons. There are also a lot of Canadians AND Americans who go to Mexico, the Caribbean or Europe for alternatives that they can't find in either the USA or Canada.

In other words, your point doesn't impress me, cos you don't really have one. I still have free medical care and you don't. ;-) Now go see if you can find a name, and some courage.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Barry Finn
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 12:28 AM

I sometime cross borders just for a breath of fresh air,,,,, but I don't fly,,,,,,,the birds do.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 09:38 AM

LH: What is the quality of that free medical care?

"I was sure that it was Israel who bombed Lebanon"

You are still struggling with the fact that Hizbollah, an Iranian force, attacked Israel and Israel retaliated.

Canada's Medical Nightmare - by Robert J. Cihak, M.D.

"the major candidates in Canada's recent national election both agreed the country's health care system is failing. They made the usual socialist diagnosis of "not enough money." None of the candidates mentioned government control as what ails the Canadian system."

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Bee
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 10:16 AM

Because, Dickey, that's political hyperbole. The Canadian health care system is not collapsing, and like everything else, it always needs more money and it always could be better. In fact wait times for a variety of procedures are significantly down.

Dickey, I am of an age where many of my age peers are needing serious care for heart problems, diabetes, cancers, etc. Guess what? They go to the doctor and they get care. I don't know anyone, myself, who's died waiting for health care, though I'm sure there are a few. Whatever flaws there are, it beats getting no care at all, as seems to be the case in the US. I'm not pulling that out of a hat, I have a good number of relatives stateside, and their health is often compromised because they cannot afford medical care or their insurance doesn't cover it.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 02:30 PM

"You are still struggling with the fact that Hizbollah, an Iranian force, attacked Israel and Israel retaliated." - Dickey

Since when is Hezbolah an "Iranian" force. Its my understanding that Iran has its own army and a very strong army from what I hear.

Regarding Canadian healthcare - Yes, it needs improvement, but in the last five years I have had knee surgery (laser), a slipped disc, a blood clot and broken ribs. I was always given excellent and timely care. In addition, I have been looking into assisted living for my mom who lives in the States. Looks like it will cost a minimum of $2500 a month. In Canada, its free.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: bobad
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 02:33 PM

"What is the quality of that free medical care?"

Look up the statistics on infant mortality and average life spans in the two countries.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Peace
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 06:12 PM

"During the last two decades of this century (1980-1999), an average of 30,000 refugees were admitted to Canada annually, for an estimated total of about 0.6 million. Given this heavy intake of refugees, it is not surprising that in 1986 the United Nations awarded Canada the Nansen medal for its outstanding humanitarian tradition of settling refugees. It is worth noting that Canada is the first country to be so honoured by the United Nations."

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: bobad
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 06:31 PM

"Want a health tip? Move to Canada.

An impressive array of data shows that Canadians live longer, healthier lives than we do. What's more, they pay roughly half as much per capita as we do ($2,163 versus $4,887 in 2001) for the privilege."

Read it and weep oldguy Dickey, reprinted from the LA Times

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Peace
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 06:35 PM

Stop being so mean spirited, Bobad.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: skipy
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 06:44 PM

Just one, just one, with a rucksack bomb will make a differance!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: bobad
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 06:45 PM

Yeah you're right Peace......So don't move to Canada Dickey.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Peace
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 06:46 PM

Yeah. We had that already. Used to be mailboxes in Montreal.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Peace
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 06:52 PM

Above post for Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 01:08 AM

Here's an idea. Let Dickey move to Canada, but if he gets sick don't force him to accept free medical treatment! Let him pay the full equivalent USA medical fees if he wants to (as a voluntary donation), just so he won't feel troubled by the thought that anything could possibly be better somewhere else besides the USA. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Barry Finn
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 01:26 AM

I just wrote a check to the pharmacy for $330.45 for our regular precriptions & that's not for a full month for my family. I have Blue Cross Blue Shield PPO from my wife's very large self insured employer. How do you think I feel about a national health plan? I just started medicade too. The plan tells me what are the prefered med's & what isn't & what's covered & what's not. What to do when my body & Dr tells me different? Finding a new country may be easier than finding a new plan!

Canada's health plan is failing? Wait till you really need health care here, "you ain't seen nothing yet, baby"!

I can say that I'm lucky to be alive though these costs are gonna be the death of me yet.

Barry, here in the US by the grace of God.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 01:36 AM

The funny thing is, I so seldom have had to resort to either drugs or conventional medical treatment over the years that it's hardly made a difference to me, financially speaking, whether or not my country provides free medicare. My father, however, was quite ill for the last 6 months of his life with liver disease, and required extensive hospitalization. In Canada, that ended up costing us virtually nothing (and they were extremely helpful and efficient in every respect, providing assistance at home as well as at the hospital). In the USA that same situation would have bankrupted this family....and my father would still be dead now anyway.

And there is the difference.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 01:41 AM

Barry, I don't know if its still legal or not but my mom used to get her prescriptions via the internet from Canada. What ever happened
to that? If its still happening, look into it. The price difference is amazing.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 01:50 AM

"Since when is Hezbolah an "Iranian" force"" Since It was created.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah_(Iran)

"Ansar-e-Hezbollah is a militant ultraconservative Islamist group in Iran. It revolves around the figure of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini and his ideological thought. Mojtaba Bigdeli is a spokesman for the Iranian Hezbollah.

They wear civilian clothes, even though they are on government duty. They are said to attack peaceful demonstrators that aren't part of government-organized demonstrations.

They are called upon to put down riots before the police force are called to resolve the issue through traditional methods. Members of Ansar-e-Hezbollah, who typically dress in plain black clothes, are known for attacking protestors using bars, chains, and other such weapons from fast moving motorcycles. They often disappear or 'stand-down' when the normal police appear.

Currently this group is said to be seeking revenge on a group of Iranian students seen burning a picture of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad during his recent visit to Tehran's Amir Kabir university"

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 03:47 AM

Patrons or helpers of Hezbollah are not Hezbollah.

Neither are Ansar-e-Hezbollah the Iranian army. It may be true that they have a semi official function in Iran but they are not the government of Iran nor the army of Iran. From what I can gather, they function within Iran. Furthermore, it is Hezbollah in Lebanon that were defending the Lebanese from Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Peace
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 10:07 AM

BULLSHIT!

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Peace
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 10:08 AM

Hezbollah are a terrorist faction committed to creating war where and when they can. No war, no funding. Then the useless fuckers would have to get real jobs, and they aren't prepared to do that.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 02:07 PM

I agree with that, Peace, but to say that Hezbollah is an Iranian force is incorrect and misleading. Hezbollah is present in many middle-eastern countries but it is not the army of Iran.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Peace
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 02:52 PM

Hezbollah is supplied by Iran. It is not an arm of the Iranian military.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 04:25 PM

"Hezbollah was founded in 1982 in response to the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, and subsumed members of the 1980s coalition of groups known as Islamic Jihad. It has close links to Iran and Syria."

http://www.cfr.org/publication/9155/

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Peace
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 05:02 PM

Isreal was formed in 1948 because they got tired of 2000 years of pogroms.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 05:06 PM

Yes, and ...

this is thread drift

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Peace
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 05:29 PM

Damned right it is. So tell me when you want to get back on track. I'll be right there.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 06:08 PM

Peace - If you read upthread, you will find that I was stating that since Syria and Iran are overflowing with Iraqi refugees, perhaps the U.S. should help with the costs.

Dickey was the one who claimed that Hezbollah was an Iranian force so Iran should be responsible for the number of refugees that have been created by Hezbollah.

I would also like to know the number of refugees created by Hezbollah as compared to the number of refugees created the the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

I think that its important to differentiate between Hezbollah and the Iranian army or Hezbollah and the Lebanese army.

Hezbollah is supplied by many countries but they are not the army of any particular nation unless you want to recognize the Nation of Islam. As far as I'm concerned, both Syria and Iran (and all other nations) should treat them as criminals but to go to war with another nation based on criminal activity is unwarranted.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Peace
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 06:10 PM

Thank you. We agree.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 09:25 PM

They wear civilian clothes, even though they are on government duty. On duty for what government?


They are said to attack peaceful demonstrators that aren't part of government-organized demonstrations.

They are called upon to put down riots before the police force are called to resolve the issue through traditional methods.

Called upon by who?

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 09:28 PM

by whom

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 09:39 PM

Called upon by whom?

Notice what it says on this guys uniform.

New York Times

"JERUSALEM, Aug. 6 â€" On Dec. 26, 2003, a powerful earthquake leveled most of Bam, in southeastern Iran, killing 35,000 people. Transport planes carrying aid poured in from everywhere, including Syria.

According to Israeli military intelligence, the planes returned to Syria carrying sophisticated weapons, including long-range Zelzal missiles, which the Syrians passed on to Hezbollah, the Shiite militia group in southern Lebanon that Iran created and sponsors...."

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 12:52 AM

I notice that it says 'ARMY' in English. Soooo........?

The linked article is dated Dec. 6, 2003 and the source is Israeli. What did you think they would say?

I was actually surprised they gave Hezbollah so much credit.

In fact, it sounds like Israel depends on it armour whereas Hezbollah depends on its planning and organization.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 01:04 PM

So it's in English. Sooooooooo?

Is what the Israelis said true or false. You automatically claim whatever they say is false.

An Israeli said it therefore it is a lie?

Are you a racist?

Hezbollah depends on killing as many innocent people as they can and blaming it on someone else.