Songs about Yorkshire & Lancashire

Subject: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: selby
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 07:16 AM

For many years Saddleworth Folk Festival(that is in either Yorkshire or Lancashire dependent on the Boundary Commision) has hosted a Song Battle of the Roses the Question is what songs remind you of those 2 Fine counties

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 07:25 AM

I live in Yorkshire and I always think "Dalesman's Litany" would remind anybody of Yorkshire.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 07:28 AM

"Lancashire Lass" obviously for Lancashire.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 07:46 AM

The Weaver and the Factory Maid always make me think of Lancashire because my grandfather worked in the cotton mills there.

Talking Blackpool Blues

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 08:02 AM

Holmfirth Anthem for Yorkshire.

I'll try and get a few together before I post again. I keep running from the kitchen to the computer as I think of another one!

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: bubblyrat
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 08:03 AM

" On Ilkley Moor Without A Hat " seems pretty definitive to me !!

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 09:09 AM

"The Lyke Wake Dirge" is written in an old form of the Yorkshire dialect.
Years ago I managed to walk 32 miles (before I pulled a muscle) of the Lyke Wake walk which goes from Osmotherley to Ravenscar.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: CharleyO'Neill
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 09:09 AM

We're reight daahn int' coal oil wheret' muck slaps ont' windaes,
We've used all aar coil up an' wi reight daahn tut cinders,
If bum bailiff calls he won't know where to find us,
Cos, we're reight daahn int' coal oil where t' muck slaps ont' windaes !

- 'The Barnsley Anthem', a Yorkshire classic, as recorded by Yorkshire man, Dave Burland. However, has also been done by Lancashire's own Oldham Tinkers ! who also I believe changed the title of 'Fine Old Yorkshire gentleman' to 'fine old ENGLISH gentleman' !! Whatever would Ewan MacColl have thought !

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 09:18 AM

"Streets of Staithes" written by Barry Slater and often sung by Vin Garbutt - both Teesiders, but Staithes is a North Yorkshire coastal town.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 09:37 AM

"Oh The Grand Old Duke of York." I've just found this on the LP "My Very Favourite Nursery Rhyme Record" - Tim Hart and friends.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 10:26 AM

"Percy the Peeler from Potterton".
"I'm a Rambler, I'm a Rambler from Manchester Way".
"Old Molly Metcalfe" is a Jake Thackray song sung by Tony Capstick.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 10:37 AM

The White Hare of Howden is a traditional Irish folk song, but it always reminds me of Yorkshire because Howden is in Yorkshire.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: terrier
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 10:46 AM

###" On Ilkley Moor Without A Hat " seems pretty definitive to me !! ###

Bubblyrat, write out 100 times,"On Ilkley Moor 'BAHT 'AT". **BG**

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 10:47 AM

We took part in the War of the Roses last year, and i was really worried before that we wouldnt find enough songs, but once you start looking there are loads-I think the Holmfirth Anthem is my favourite

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: CharleyO'Neill
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 10:54 AM

In the 70's / 80's, the North West was full of 'Lanky' acts of the like of Houghton Weavers, Fivepenny Piece, Bluewater Folk, of course the rightly hallowed Oldham Tinkers, etc, etc - the remnants of which survive to this day.

I know many a fine performer originated on t'other side of the pennines, but were there any actual Yorkshire speciality type acts ? I can't think of any...

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: selby
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 12:13 PM

Keeping to the songs (sorry Charley) I started with much the same problem Linda.Although I live near Howden I can't for the life of me recollect hearing the song I hope some more come out of the woodwork for both sides. I know Steve Gardham & Ray Padgett are collecting Yorkshire songs I also know that Sid Calderbank is collecting Lancashire songs but this is about songs that remind you about these 2 fine counties

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST,Sufern Softy
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 12:17 PM

They're all miserable flat cap wearing tight fisted Northerners to me!

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: bubblyrat
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 12:21 PM

Dear TERRIER----Elsewhere on this site is a recent thread offering a tanslation of the "Baht ,at " in the song as meaning,presumably in Yorkshire dialect, "without a hat " . If you can prove otherwise,of course,then ( and only then !! ) will I do my punishment !!

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 12:25 PM

The Aspeys used to a terrific song which, I think, was called "Lankie Spoken Here".

Rhiannon

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: bubblyrat
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 12:28 PM

No,"Sufern Softy" they are not all the same !! I cannot be intolerant of Lancashire folks, as my sister lives in Lancaster,where her children were born. However ,I was informed,about 5 years ago, by a man from the Lancashire Dialect Society, at the Sidmouth Festival, that "a Yorkshireman is a Scotsman stripped of his generosity !!"

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Alec
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 12:39 PM

I'd go with "Ilkley Moor" for Yorkshire & "Leaning on a Lamp post"
for Lancashire.
I'd say both counties had parity in music, but Lancashire has the best women.
This is because Lancastrian lasses all know the best way to Oldham.
I'll get me coat.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Bainbo
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 12:43 PM

And, if you're lucky, they know how to avoid Altrincham.



Pass me my coat, while you're there, Alec

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST,Ancient Briton
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 01:11 PM

There are huge cultural and linguistic differences within both counties, never mind between the two. It's still possible to identify a dialect to within a mile or two of its source in some of the valleys I know, either side of the hill. So identifying the essence of something as big as a county in a particular song or tune just isn't possible.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 02:20 PM

The Tour of the Dales
Willy went to Westerdale
The Yorkshire Tup
The Whitby Lad
Holbeck Moor Cock Fight

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 02:36 PM

Turpin Hero

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 02:49 PM

George Formby's got a lot to answer for! "Leaning on a Lamp post" indeed!
This was from the musical "Me and My Girl" based in and around Hareford Hall, Hampshire, Mayfair and Lambeth which in my book is in the saarrrfff. For Lancashire songs look no further than the works of Harry Boardman who looked into the written works of the last 200 years and found plenty of material that had lain forgotten but told of how we used to live in good times and bad. Writers such as Edwin Waugh, Sam Laycock, Sam Bamford, Sam Fitton, David Halstead, Randal Mundy, Joseph Burgess, Alexander Wilson, Michael Wilson...the list goes on. Not just songs but the stories and accounts of events such as the Cotton Famine are covered by these writers. There's a parallel universe up here that seems to think that to be "Lancastrian" you have to be a gormess idiot that says "ee by gum" every sentence. Like I said George Formby has a lot to answer for as well as people like Frank Randall and Danny Ross who played Jimmy Clitheroe's mate Alfie Hall in the long running radio series "The Clitheroe Kid".

Have a look HERE for more about Harry Boardman.

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Alec
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 02:54 PM

Ok, scrub "lamp post". Strawberry Fields Forever. (Just off Menlove Avenue,Woolton)

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 02:55 PM

Matchstick Men and Matchstick Cats and Dogs
Lancashire Lads
Manchester Canal
The Soldier's Farewell to Manchester
New Bayley Treadmill

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 03:34 PM

I'd go with "Strawberry Fields Forever" Alec! I'd also go with "Eleanor Rigby" - shame it's not about a real person but there were, and no doubt still are, plenty of Eleanor Rigby's about today.

Bowton's Yard
A Merry Little Doffer Lad
Our Sarah's Getting a Chap
Eaur Market Neet
Shurat Weaver's Song
Cotton Lords of Preston
Calico Printer' Clerk
Rawtenstall Annual Fair
(The last 2 songs were written by professional writers - Music Hall star Harry Clifton in the case of Calico... and Lee and Weston for Rawtenstall Fair. but the songs remind me of Lancashire)

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Wyrd Sister
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 04:25 PM

Charlie O'Neill - I always thought muck SLARTED on't'winders. Dunno why! Mine certainly does anyway!

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Bainbo
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 04:37 PM

Old Pendle; The Rise And Fall of Ghengis Ackroyd.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 05:33 PM

Blackburn Poachers
Wensleydale Lad
Scarborough Sands
Howden Town
The two lamplighters
Our Beck
A song of the Yorkshire Dales

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 05:48 PM

The Flowers of Knaresborough Forest is a song which lists villages around Knaresborough in North Yorkshire.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 07:35 PM

Boundary Commissions shouldn't be treated with any respect in this context.

So Liverpool is really in Lancashire.
And Middlesborough is really Yorkshire.

That should add quite a few songs to the total available for both counties.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 07:38 PM

I'm glad you said that because there are loads of Liverpool songs but I didn't know if they would count.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST,Bruce Michael Baillie
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 09:17 AM

Yorkshire songs? there are loads of them, and plenty new ones being written.
Andy Sugdens 'The Hartshead Maid' and 'When Tommy came back to the Dale'.
Bob Pegg wrote quite a few such as 'Fiddlers Cross' 'The Gypsy' 'Leaving the Dales'and others.
My own stuff like 'The Wars of the Roses' (which I actually sang a few years ago at the aforementioned song contest at Saddleworth)'Ballad of the Assistant Banana Ripening Manager', and 'I sorta wish'.
'The Apprentice Diallers song' by Terry Armitage.
Any of Keith Marsdens stuff.
Tommy Daniels 'Poverty Knock'
'Words thro't shuttle 'ee' by Ben Turner
'Owd Moxy' by Ben Preston
'Bonny Hills of Yorkshire' by Barry Smith
Anything by F.W. Moorman.
'The wind blows cold at Jack o' Johnnies' and loads of others by James F. Jarratt of Mytholmroyd.
'Mrs Holroyd' (Can't remember who wrote that one!)
I could go on but I'd be here all day! ...Yorkshire songs? there are bleedin' loads of 'em if you know where to look!

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Big Jim from Jackson
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 09:31 AM

I'm with Zany Mouse.......... Being from across the big pond and in the middle of the USA (Missouri, to be exact), I probably wouldn't know a Lanky if one bit me(And Gary Aspey just might!), But Gary and Vera Aspey are as Lanky as can be to my ear. I think they are fantastic. I play some of their songs on my radio show.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: r.padgett
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 12:36 PM

Bruce apparently it should be Tommy Daniel and Poverty Knocks!

See the 's' I know I had it that way round until I went see Mick Haywood!

Young Simon John
T'Owd farmer and his Shrew (Mary O Mary)
Owd Jim Slack
Poverty Knocks

All Mick's Batley songs

Arthur Howard/Will Noble
such as:
Merry Mountain Child
Homfirth Anthem
Bright Shiny Morning
Bill Brown

Frank Hinchliffe (Sheffield) trad source singer some fine songs collected and sung by Frank over many years
such as:
Sheffield Park
Edward
Nobleman and Thresher
Old Wooden Rocker

Arthur Wood (Middlesborough)

John Greaves (to my mind a traditional singer with some recently recorded songs for TYG) many I have never heard before

John's at Saddleworth again for the War of the Roses

A number of Industrial songs from Sheffield area:
such as
Sheffield Grinders (see Paul Davenport's collection)

West Riding songs
Cropper Lads
Foster's Mill

All of Hudleston Collection
Ray

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 01:25 PM

all of Keith Marsdens songs!

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 01:50 PM

Two blokes went to the pub together every night for years at 9.00 pm. Alf always called at Joe's house.

One night when Alf went to Joe's house and his wife said " I have some bad news, he died in his sleep earlier today".

"Oh!" said Alf, "did he say owt about a tin of paint?".

If you can understand why that is funny - chances are you are from Yorkshire!!

Anything by the Watersons. Even if they sing their shopping list.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Alio
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 02:34 PM

We'll be having another War of the Roses this year - when you think about it, Saddleworth is the only place you CAN have it - and this year for the 1st time there'll be a tropy for the winning side!

Yorkshire will be represented by Hissyfit, Copper Kettle, Ray Padgett and Arthur Marsden (from the Shellbacks). The Lancashire side will include Stanley Accrington, Scowie, Sid, Scolds Bridle and Dave Molloy. Glad I'm not judging!!

Geoff's already thinking about the categories. In case you want to get there, it'll be in the Civic Hall on the Saturday afternoon - it's outgrown all the other venues!!

Ali

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: yrlancslad
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 11:36 PM

As an exile from Lancashire ( suffering the terrible life here in California) I always find myself singing "I wish I was in Lancashire" when I'm homesick. It's a Cicely Fox Smith poem set to music, I think, by the Aspeys-it's on their album "From the North"

There's gradely hounds in Lancashire as such there always were
Theres gradely hills in Lancashire although they're bleak and bare
There's gradely lads in Lancashire and that I'll tell you true
And I wish I was in Lancashire a-huntin' o'er the dew.

I long to be in Lancashire......

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST,Bruce Michael Baillie
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 01:07 AM

...Ray, I stand corrected!
Folkie Dave, wonderful story

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Alec
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 03:05 AM

Singing "Bring me Sunshine" immediately brings to mind a particularly fine Yorkshire man & a particularly fine Lancastrian.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: selby
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 05:11 AM

Paddy on the railway (Right Title?)as I remember it had him working on the Leeds to Selby railway. Therefore another Yorkshire song

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 06:37 AM

Well I didn't know Cicely Fox Smith was a Lancastrian!!

She was I believe in Canada and retired in England somewhere!

I wont say anymore as I dunt want to upset Danny and Joyce

But Lancashire was she born there??

Gary and Vera nice singers, but he does go on abit!! (joking honest)

Ray

Cheers
Bruce

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Scrump
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 07:38 AM

Here's some I've not seen mentioned (apologies if they have):

Lancs:
Ashton Mashers
Rochdale Mashers
City of Manchester
The Leaving of Liverpool
I Wish I Was Back in Liverpool
Liverpool Lullaby
Wigan Pier
In Me Little Wigan Garden
Sitting on the Top of Blackpool Tower
Blackpool Belle
With Me Little Stick Of Blackpool Rock
Bonny Brid (Lancs cotton famine)
Black Pud Stud
Hear All, See All, Say Nowt
Where There's Muck There's Brass
Mi Gronny
Brown Photographs
King Cotton (2 different songs)
I'm Powfagged
Lancashire Lyne
Lancashire My Lancashire
Lancashire Leads The Way Me Lads
Royton Sands
Nowt So Queer As Folk
Our Sarah's Getten A Chap
A Mon Like Thee
Pete Was A Lonely Mongrel Dog Who Lived In Central Wigan
Straightforward Lancashire Lad
The Martians Have Landed In Wigan
Uncle Joe's Mint Balls
Howfen Wakes
Sit Thi Deawn
Lancashire Fusiliers
Matchstalk Men & Matchstalk Cats & Dogs (about L S Lowry)
Owdham Edge
Toddlin' Whoam
Whoam Brewed
Lancashire Toreador

Yorks:
The Hair of the Widow of Bridlington
Scarborough Fair

On that basis, I reckons Lancs are the winners :-)

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST,HughM
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 08:24 AM

Yorkshire:
Threescore and Ten
The Battle of Sowerby Bridge
The Settle-to-Carlisle Railway, Land of the Pennine God, Fish Finger Armada, More Like Blackpool Each Day and many other songs by Mike Donald.

Can't remember who wrote Simon John - was it Walter Greaves?

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: r.padgett
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 09:20 AM

No No No Simon John is Tommy Daniel

Walter was a one armed blacksmith from Dewsbury!!

he travelled on a bike (cycle) a good bit too

he was story teller too

Ken Johnson (Stainsby) keeps on about him so if anyone knows any more about WG post here!!

Some story about his house being marooned when they built a motorway slip road to the M62 or some road leaving Yorkshire and Dave Brady helping him relocate

Ray

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Scrump
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 09:54 AM

A Gradely Prayer is one (of the many, no doubt) I forgot earlier.

(Add one to the Lanky score).

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 10:34 AM

"The Weaver and the Factory Maid always make me think of Lancashire because my grandfather worked in the cotton mills there."

From what I remember of an interesting article by Roy Palmer in the Folksong Journal, Bert Lloyd stitched together the version that we all know from several different sources, including one which included the line: "The finest lass in Morley town, she walks around in a fine silk gown". So not only was she from the West Riding, she was posh as well.

"The White Hare of Howden is a traditional Irish folk song, but it always reminds me of Yorkshire because Howden is in Yorkshire."

Irish?? I always thought it was collected from Joseph Taylor in Saxby, Lincs., not too far away from Howden on the other side of the Humber. Harry Boardman, however, (see Mark's link) claimed it for Lancashire and sang "Oldham" instead of Howden. And I believe another version was collected quite recently in Devon by a Mr. Lakeman.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST,Bruce Michael Baillie
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 10:43 AM

Ray,I remember Walter Greaves well, Ron Darnbrough probably knows more about him than me but I first saw him when he used to go to art classes when I was at Batley Art College and then I saw him around the folk clubs back in the 70's. He used to do a great monologue called 'Billy Bates' Christmas Tree' and other Yorkshire stuff.
I can remember Ron telling me Walter once gave him a lift in a van he had, obviously Walter only had one arm and the van wasn't converted for a disabled person so every time he changed gear he had to take his arm off the steering wheel. Dunno what happened to him eventually.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 10:48 AM

Guest, Brian Peters - I had never thought of it as being traditional Irish until I looked it up. In fact I even went so far as to see if there was a Howden in Ireland but I couldn't find one. I always thought it was from Yorkshire so I'm glad you've mentioned it in your post. Lincs is much closer to Yorkshire!

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Scrump
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 11:07 AM

Well if we're gonna include monologues:

Three Ha'pence a Foot
Albert & The Lion
Albert's Return
Jubilee Sovereign
Recumbent Posture
Runcorn Ferry
Goalkeeper Joe
Up'ards
etc.
etc.

Chalk 'em up for Lancs! :-)

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 11:36 AM

Guest, Brian Peters. You are right. I have taken the following from a website.

The White Hare sung by Joseph Taylor, London, 1908.   
Frank Kidson prints a version of this in his Traditional Tunes (1899), with the following note. 'A tune obtained for me by Mr Lolly, from the singing of a man near Howden, now lately dead. Musicians will, I think, congratulate Mr Lolly upon obtaining such a fine and sterling old air. I wish I could say as much for the words.' Kidson's song is set in the area around Howden, rather than Oldham as in Joseph Taylor's version, and Kidson mentions that it was once popular in Howden. Kidson had also seen the words on broadside, usually titled Near Maxwell Town or Near Mansfield Town. Peter Kennedy also recorded it for the BBC from a Mrs Cooke, of Cardington, Shropshire, in 1952 - the only other known source.

The source I had got it from had heard Beth Patterson sing it and I think they must have incorrectly assumed it was traditional Irish.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: r.padgett
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 12:43 PM

Bruce ~ Ron "bionic" voice Darnborough lives Thornhill Lees, Dewsbury near the church might try and have a chat with him ~ session first Tues in the month in the Saville arms I believe also employed selling musical instruments!!

Ray

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 01:00 PM

Thanks eanjay, for confirming that. The Taylor recording does sound as though he's singing "Oldham", but I always thought it was really "Howden" in a North Lincs accent. I didn't know about the Shropshire version, though - I shall try to track that down.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Grab
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 10:48 AM

Not a single mention of Stanley Accrington...?

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: r.padgett
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 01:46 PM

O dear!

Accrington Stanley FC?

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: danensis
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 05:11 PM

Grab,

Alio mentioned Stanley Acrrington up there ^ somewhere,

John

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 06:21 AM

I do believe Stan is a regular attendee at The Cross Keys, Uppermill where the Festival survivors usually meet after Saddleworth FF on Sunday night

Stan is a very clever and humorous artist with great presence and probably 'hiding his light under a bushel'

Should bring his talents to a wider audience in my view!

Ray

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Grab
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 06:45 AM

Oops, missed it. Sorry Alio. :-)

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Scrump
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 06:48 AM

But I thought this thread was about Lanky / Yorks songs, not artists.

That would be a whole new argument - I mean, discussion.

I can think of more Lanky artists than Yorks ones, but maybe there are loads of Yorks artists I've never heard of?

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST,HughM
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 08:01 AM

Thanks for the correction, Ray.
Bruce, the last time I saw or heard anything of Walter Greaves, he was living at Craven Forge, on the right-hand side of the A650 when travelling from Kildwick to Skipton. At one time the council wanted to throw him out because they considered the place to be untidy. There was a petition raised to stop the eviction. If I remember rightly he tidied up a bit and was allowed to stay. That would be 25 years ago or more.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST,Darowyn
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 10:48 AM

It was interesting to hear that a song from Howden in Yorkshire was collected in Cardington in Shropshire, since there is a connection between the two places.
They are the two towns where the two great airships, the R100 and the R101 were built.
Since the Shropshire version was collected in the 1950's, it's entirely possible that it made its way to Cardington in the repertoire of some folk-singing Airship engineer.
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Scrump
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 10:54 AM

I think you'll find that the R100 and R101 were built at Cardington in Bedfordshire, not Shropshire, Dave (GUEST,Darowyn).

The enormous hangars are still there, and can be seen from a long way off. I once went to an open day there, and one of them is used for fire testing - there's a whole detached house built inside it, and they fill it with furniture and set fire to it, to see how long it takes to spread, using different materials, etc.

Not sure how that affects your theory about the song though.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Dave Hunt
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 03:10 PM

Earlier on in this thread CharleyO'Neill wrote-


We're reight daahn int' coal oil wheret' muck slaps ont' windaes,
We've used all aar coil up an' wi reight daahn tut cinders,
If bum bailiff calls he won't know where to find us,
Cos, we're reight daahn int' coal oil where t' muck slaps ont' windaes !

Of course us Midlanders don't understand this foreign gibberish :-) so we have to sing


We are right down in the basement where the dust accumulates upon the casement
We have used up all our anthracite and simply left with the residue
When the landlord's representatives appear they will be unable to ascertain our whereabouts
For we are right down in the basement where the dust accumulates upon the casement

Dave of Shropshire

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Scrump
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 09:30 AM

Dave, I thought it went:

Wur reight deawn in t' coil oil wheer t' muck slaps on t' win-ders,
Wiv used all eawr coil up an' wi' reight deawn tert cinders,
If bum bailiff calls he wain't knaw wheer ter find us,
Cos we're reight deawn in t' coil oil wheer t' muck slaps on t' win-ders !

Are you sure you weren't using the Midlands version? :-)

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST,Mark Dowding at work
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 10:38 AM

Dave - you're posh aren't you - I bet you get out of the bath to have a wee!!!

How do people pronounce "Find us"? I've heard it as it's read but I 've also read somewhere that it should be pronouced as in the frozen fish company (Findus) to rhyme with cinders.

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: r.padgett
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 01:47 PM

Dave Burland used to both the original and posh versions as done Dave above

i wrote to local Barnsley Chronicle about this song and found one lady who knew it (one verse) and had the chorus:

You cant out yer muck in our dustbin, our dustbin our dustbin
yer cant out yer muck in our dustbin our dustbin's full

Which I think is well know in England

As you may know Roy Palmer has it in one of his books but i had never heard anyone in Yorks do it "from the tradition" although Robin Garside reckons he has heard someone do it as a non folky

Dave Malkin (folky and Dance caller) said that he knew and sung it locally too

Ray

yep findus/cinders

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:16 AM

One thing looking at this YORKSHIRE has won

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Charmain
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 08:19 AM

Rawtenstall Annual Fair - my all-time favourite song of all-time!

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Scrump
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 08:21 AM

How do people pronounce "Find us"? I've heard it as it's read but I 've also read somewhere that it should be pronouced as in the frozen fish company (Findus) to rhyme with cinders.

Depending where you're from, you could pronounce it "finduz".

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Sugwash
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 10:24 AM

There's several dozen songs about Robin Hood, the well known Yorkshireman.

Scarbourgh Sands and the couple of hundred other songs in Holroyd's Book of Yorkshire Ballads.

Johnny Rise Up in the Morning by Bruce Baillie.

Yorkshire Lasses by Bernard Wrigley — not entirely complimentary about our womenfolk but we'll claim it anyway, cheers Bolton Bullfrog.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Sugwash
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 10:27 AM

...and Sweet Lass of Richmon Hill.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Scrump
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 10:50 AM

Well Bernard Wrigley has also recorded Lancashire Lasses so that cancels out his Yorkshire Lasses song :-)


(The Lancashire Lasses song wasn't all that complimentary either, as I recall :-))

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 01:31 PM

Judge for yourself about "Lancashire Lasses" - here's the first verse and chorus:

I know a girl and she's called Annabella
She stands on our grid every night with her feller
And how do I know that her knickers are yeller
I go down our cellar for coal

Lancashire Lasses can take all the passes
The thin ones the fat ones the ones who wear glasses
They're sweeter than cowheel that's spread with mollasses
It's Lancashire Lasses for me

Bernard rewrote the chorus so some folk may remember a slightly different one

For the foreigners looking in (people from Cheshire) houses round here were built with cellars that had a chute access from the street covered by a slatted grid and the coalman would lift the grid and empty a few bags of coal down there. It saved him making a mess on your carpet but you did have to put it in the bath yourself from the cellar.

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 02:41 PM

My mistake, I was thinking of My Own Dear Yorkshire Lass, also by Bolton's finest, which has the immortal lines:

And if she gets on top when we get into bed
I'll come through the mattress like chips.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST,HughM
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 08:09 AM

D'oh! Just realised! The road from Kildwick to Skipton, passing where Walter Greaves used to live, is the A629. The A650 ends at Keighley.

   Now why did Lancashire people want to put coal in the bath?

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST,Mark Dowding at work
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 08:22 AM

Coal in the bath is that stereotypical thing that suvverners think we northerners do on a regular basis like race whippets, wear flat caps and mufflers and eat our young when they fall ill. I tried racing whippets once but they kept beating me so I gave up!

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 08:29 AM

Nice to see mention of Jim Jarratt. A little while back he did write The Yorkshire National Anthem.
Jim has a number of web sites including local/family history, walks and rambles, ghost stories and of course his songs. They link from this page http://www.jimjarratt.co.uk/
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Scrump
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 08:42 AM

Now why did Lancashire people want to put coal in the bath?

You mean Yorkshire folk don't wash their coal, but just leave it dirty? :-)

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST,Bensod123
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 03:47 PM

Can someone please send me "Owdham edge" I carnt get it anywhere :(

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: concertina ceol
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 05:34 PM

As a native of Sheffield and a Yorkie I am surprised that "Swaledale" or "Song of the Swale" hasn't been mentioned. I had the pleasure of hearing Billy Mills sing it about fifteen to twenty years ago before the carols got "popular". I sing the song most weeks in my current stamping ground of the weald in kent. The last verse about being away from home gets me every week!

I've always had a soft spot for Tony Capstick's New World Symphony/"Thei dun't know thei born today", especialy as our family was aquainted with Tony Capstick before the alcohol got him.

Also I couldn't see any reference to Joshua Jackson above? He was a miller who compiled about 500 tunes, songs and dances around 1800. (I think he played fiddle).

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 05:48 PM

I go for the unicounty option.

Poverty poverty knock.

It does for both, since the teller of the story is a Lancashire weaver, and that "skinny gaffer" just has to be from Yorkshire.

I'll get me cowat.
G'neet
Don T.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST,Arnie at work
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 06:56 PM

One of my favourites has the refrain 'And the petals fell from the Rose of York, never to bloom again' - can't recall the exact title but it's about the butchery of a Yorkshire regiment in WWI. I'm a West Ridinger originally but still sing this song down in Kent occasionally and it gets me right there every time - whether it does the same for the Kentish audience is a different matter!!

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 08:21 AM

Poverty Knocks was written by Tommy Daniel from West Riding of Yorkshire

also wrote Young Simon John, Owd Jim Slack and Mary o Mary Please Come 'Ome to me (Farmer and his Shrew)

Gus Gomersal sang Rose and York and I think Roy Bailey recorded it!

The Keith Marsden songs such as 'And they say it wasnt such a big disaster' and 'Normany Orchards' have me in tears

Ray

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 04:06 PM

this still workin

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST,alan
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 04:29 PM

To set the record straight about Tommy:

He had a slipper stall on Hekmodwhick market. Poverty Knock as no connection with Lancashire what so ever.

I first meet him in 1965 in Dewsbury folk club (Station Hotel).
He had a yukalaly (spelling) that he made out of his old wardrobe door. It had the Key hole in the back. Honest

He used to say "I've now'bet two pennies lad", so what was so poor man to do.

You could buy his song sheet from him at Shilling. Sadly mine have well gone.

He had one about Ben Law. I think it was called the "Monugo Man"

As a totally different subject. Dewsbury was the first place that they put letters inside a stick of rock. So there Blackpool!!!

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST,squeezeboxhp
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 12:50 PM

regarding Tommy Daniels bike it is in the Bradford industrial Museum on Moorside Road with some notes in the vintage vehicle section along woth the Jowett collection of motors. and whats more he told me himself he wrote poverty knock on a vist to the Singing Jenny Folk Club

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: r.padgett
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 01:08 PM

Weaving tales like any good storyteller

"The truth is out there," somewhere

Ray

Subject: Lyr Add: THE ROSE OF YORK (K Thompson & L Hale)
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 03:37 PM

Here are the lyrics of The Rose of York mentioned by a couple of people above.

THE ROSE OF YORK
Ken Thompson & Lesley Hale

Oh my name it is Mark Bennett, I am a Yorkshire man;
I earn my living by my pen, tell a stirring tale I can:
But the tale I tell you now, boys, was writ by foolish men,
And petals fell from the Rose of York, never to bloom again.

Come all of you young married men, you boys of the bulldog breed.
We're looking for the strong and brave, that's what Britannia needs.
And we'll fight the Hun in Flanders, and the Germans on the Seine,
And petals fell from the Rose of York, never to bloom again.

We first set out to Egypt, where the heat was hard to bear;
We were waiting for the call to France, for the Boche were fighting there.
And we talked of what we'd do, boys; brothers, sons and friends;
And petals fell from the Rose of York, never to bloom again.

At last we heard that the push was on, and we sailed across the Med;
We little thought in two week's time we'd most of us be dead.
And the girls at home would weep, boys, with a grief that's hard to mend,
And petals fell from the Rose of York, never to bloom again.

With shouts of joy we lads did charge towards the German wire;
Our handsome Major was the first to go as the guns they opened fire.
His face no longer handsome, on the barbed wire met his end;
And petals fell from the Rose of York, never to bloom again.

Well, we had a Sergeant-Major, bold by nature, Bold by name;
But the German guns don't pick and choose, and Bold died just the same.
Then the other gallants followed, their coin of life to spend,
And petals fell from the Rose of York, never to bloom again.

We didn't want to lose you, but we thought you ought to go;
"Your King and Country need You!" - Lord Kitchener told us so.
But the tale I've told you now, boys, was writ by foolish men -
And petals fell from the Rose of York, never to bloom again.

I transcribed the words years ago from "The Bitter Withy Sampler", Nevis NEVR005.
Bitter Withy were an excellent close-harmony group comprising Tich Frier, Lesley Hale and Andy Ramage. I think the album was produced by Jimmy MacGregor.
Ken Thompson was a journalist in Edinburgh in the '70s, Lesley Hale was also from there. Tich Frier appears regularly at Fylde and is a powerful solo performer.

I have sung this song several times (not often enough) and often wondered what the Yorkshire connection was between the authors and the subject. A little Googling revealed a note on the website of folk group Mithras to the effect that the song is based on a chapter from a novel "Covenant with Death" (1961) by John Harris. Based on fact, it is the story of a voluntary city battalion (the Sheffield Pals) through 1914 to 1916 and its destruction at the Battle of the Somme. See Reviews of "Covenant with Death" for some comments - on the basis of which I'm off to buy the book!

Ross

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 04:59 PM

Of course, if I'd checked the Digitrad, I'd already know that! "rose of york" produces the lyrics, and also, top of the list of threads, a corrected version from Lesley Hale herself, and her own description of the book. Sorry for duplication.
Ross

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 09:12 AM

I'm surprised that no one backing the Red Rose Ceawnty has come upo with

'The Oldham Cockfight' -

Come all ye cockers far and near
I'll tell of a cockfight, when and where
Upon the moor, I heard them say -
Atween of a black and a bonny grey.

The first to come in were the Oldham lads
Who came with all the money they had.
The reason for it, I heard them say
Our black's too big for your bonny grey

etc.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 09:43 AM

I could be wrong, but I don't see this in DT

If it ain't there would youse like the rest of the words ?

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: r.padgett
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 10:52 AM

Some interesting information here ~ re Mark Bennet

the Yorkshire Garland will be including such songs in their second phase ~ assuming we have the funding

the Cock Fight is included in the first phase, sung by Jim Potter

Ray

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: gnomad
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 12:10 PM

Cock Fight lyrics in this thread, various versions.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 01:31 AM

"You cant out yer muck in our dustbin, our dustbin our dustbin
yer cant out yer muck in our dustbin our dustbin's full"

Continues....

There's dogs in, there's cats in, there's old men's grey hats in, oh yer can't put yer muck in our dustbin, 'cos our dustbin's full."

Used to sing it as a child.

At Christmas or other family gatherings, people used to make up topical
verses to add to it, such as:

There's a chair in, a hare in, let's put Tony Blair in...oh you can't put....etc.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST,Captain Farrell
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 06:01 AM

Re Battle of the Roses Saddleworth Folk Festival
I have not been to it myself always been to busy helping the Festival tick over but one thing Ido know is that Saddleworth is in Yorkshire and always has been.

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 07:15 AM

100

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Bill S from Adelaide
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 07:18 AM

There may be a shire as is broader
But there's nobbut one ceawnty - just one
As King is a Duke on - that Lanky
An ther's nowt licks a Lancashire mon

A toast; The Queen, Duke of Lancaster

Words from Harry Yates - A Lancashire Mon in Harry Boardman's book

Sammy Shuttleworth's reet gud do, Manchester Molecatcher, Manchester Rambler, Nine times a night etc

Talking of local dialects, I was in Sydney and a lady came past and said "Excuse me" in a very distinct accent. I said "you don't come far from Bolton", she got reet indignant and said "I am not from Bolton, I'm from Walkden", I was one mile off!

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: GUEST,trigger
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 03:17 PM

Check out this kid on youtube singing The Rawtenstall Annual Fair, very good although missed the rude verses! Click on th elink or go on to youtube and search for "The Rawtenstall Annual Fair, Jack Rogers"

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EwkhfG-BR4Q

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Padre
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 02:48 PM

"Old Peculier' - originally brewed in Yorkshire, nichts wahr?

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: r.padgett
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 04:22 AM

Looks like no mention so far of Scowie and Sid Calderbank being members of the Lancs team of The War of the Roses, annual event at Saddleworth

These lads are in great danger of becoming Lancashire icons(or do I mean beacons!)upholding the Lancashire Traditions in song

No mention whatsoever of that unbelievable Stan Accrington or Les Barker for that matter

Ray

ok ok we lost again

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Alio
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 04:35 AM

John 'O Grenfilt (Greenfield) sung by the afore mentioned Sid Calderbank, who of course captains the Lancashire side in the Wars. But Greenfield is in Yorkshire - I know, cos I was born and brought up there!!
Ali

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Pistachio
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 02:31 PM

Spotted sopmething on the local news last night that the Yorkshire flag is Now officially recognised!!!

I knew that taking a flag and aload of little white roses to Saddleworth would result in 'something'...!

I'll bet the weather is fine over there,just inside the Yorkshire border...the heat at Warwick would have dried up any Paddleworth puddles within an hour.
Linda is on the mend,tho' still off work.
We're looking forward to next year.
What'll the dates be Ali?

Hazel.x

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: r.padgett
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 01:08 PM

Yes The White Rose of Yorkshire adopted as the County emblem as can also be found on the Yorkshire Garland web site ~ somewhere!

Yorkshire Day last year August 1st was spent at Goole Waterways museum with Steve Gardham and Jim Potter and Roy Atkinson ~ the flag as backdrop, in scorching weather

Ray

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: Alio
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 05:45 PM

Saddleworth 2009 is July 17th to 19th Hazel.

Ali x

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: folk1e
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 06:53 PM

"John 'O Grenfilt (Greenfield) sung by the afore mentioned Sid Calderbank, who of course captains the Lancashire side in the Wars. But Greenfield is in Yorkshire" .........Allio

isn't one of the lines "When I tell 'em from 'awdam' I've come"
..... that's "awdam" in Yorkshire then?

T' war were a goodun this time!
The songs are accompanied by some gentle banter.
Mr Accrington (in my opinion) came out with the winning line .... " the love that dare not bleat it's name"
Still .... all's fair in love an' war!

Subject: RE: Origins: Yorkshire / Lancashire
From: r.padgett
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 03:09 AM

Yes but he lived in Greenfield and had been out walking over the border to Oldham and was returning home!

Ray

Subject: RE: Songs about Yorkshire & Lancashire
From: GUEST,Graham Dixon
Date: 04 Sep 17 - 06:02 PM

I've written a few about Lancashire - The area between Preston & Blackburn - I call them my Brindle Ballads

Brindle Ballads - Graham Dixon

plus this one
We remember a Lancashire Hero

And this Bothy Bathroom Ballad