Performers fees (% or flat fee?)

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Blowzabella
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 07:02 PM

PS - George - I'm a girl .....

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 07:05 PM

...and a very nice one too, I am sure!
Sorry Blowzabella.
I wish I could say that I am a boy.
I was though - once.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 07:06 PM

Heck, I still am - it's just not visible

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 07:14 PM

a small point but important..

If you run a club in a town you are 'holding' that town for folk music - because there probably isn't room for two clubs, so you're unlikely to have any competition. It's an honour and a responsibility. Like owning land. You need to think how you will leave it for future generations. So just doing what feels right to you and your members may not in fact be enough.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 07:35 PM

Apologies Blowzabella, but I know Ian and I wouldn't say he was a flamer by any means. A very nice man in fact and I dare say you are a very nice "girl".

Lets get back to the original post from Guest Andy

>What do other club organisers feel about performers asking for a guaranteed flat fee or a percentage of door takings, always meaning 'whichever is the higher'<<

As an organiser I prefer a flat fee.

George, you are a a boy at heart :-) and may I say somebody who I have a lot of respect for (makker) :-)

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Greg B
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 08:32 PM

Don't underestimate the hospitality bit. From the time the performer
comes into town until the time he or she leaves, they ought to feel
as if they're in a 5-star.

Now that means different things to different people, but when I've
hosted performers for a local folk club it's always been a nice
dinner (on me) at the local pub (bar and grill). Followed by
really nice guest-room accomodations with private bath. And up
early in the AM so they are awakened by the odor of a lavish
breakfast before getting on their way.

At Festivals, it means nice (and fun if possible) accomodations.
Like the days at Mystic when the Mystic Whaler was performer's
accomodations, at the back of the main concert site, with ample
ale snacks and all.

That and rides to and from public transport with reliable and
sympathetic people.

And hungry at 1AM? Well, no worries, the hosts will get you
to an all-night eatery.

Fees aside, it ought to be a great experience. And profitable.
But also fun.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: oggie
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 08:51 PM

This post sort of runs across both this and the any future for folk threads.

I spent 14 years as a full-time professional on the "Craft Circuit". I've done craft fairs, folk festivals, shopping centres, country shows, the lot. As a demonstrating craftsman then like a musician I'm in the entertainment business, honestly. A couple of thoughts. One - I could have had a similar discussion over the years on the craft circuit about the merits of different organisers/venues/door fees etc. Two - we all disagreed, it depended on what we did and if we were pro/semi-pro or subsidising a pension. Three - it is only now when I do a lot of things that aren't immediately Craft Shows (Schools, workshops, heritage/traditional working events) that I'm making a bit of money again. For the latter my pricing is flexible - a straight demo/workshop is a flat fee which is negotiable depending on what they want, If I can trade then I reduce the fee and either split my take with the organiser or I can reduce my prices so their punters have a bonus on their entry. Sometimes we don't agree, I have only so many days I can earn a living and, yes, it's competetive and I can't do a Sunday before Christmas for £100 because it's a prime time on the markets.

I deal with professional organisers (good and bad), amateur organisers (ditto), publis bodies (ditto). The bottom line is I have to make a living and the organiser has to balance their books. If we both understand that then we can usually work something out, like Villan says above (congrats on a lot of commonsense). Both sides have to listen to the other party but remember, please, if you are a full-time performer, craftsman or whatever your income, house, car whatever depends on the quality of your gigs and as an organiser I think you have a responsibility not to jeopardise that either.

All the best

Steve Ogden

PS at least a folk artist gets a fee, for the most part I have had to pay for the privilege of trading and that's when the quality of the organiser really kicks in - Folk Festival Craft organisers please note :)

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 07:50 AM

Mmmmm - posted this before but I can't see it now - I'll put it down to Gremlins or operator error:-) May not be exact bit along the lines off -

I would agree entirely with Blowzabella that no professional artist has had a go at club organisers but conversely no professional organiser has had a go at artists either:-) There has been rather unprofessional comments from parties on both sides if you look back over the thread though. Rather than get stuck on this point though can we get on with the business of sorting out between us what to do about it?

I am quite fortunate in that the landlord at the club I run is kind enough to let has have the room for another night. I hope I am doing my bit to redress the balance by having concerts where the artist does have more input over the door charge and format, as well as the standard night, where we do the 100% of the door at standard charge. It worked very well with the Boat Band (I hope! Greg Stephens should be able to confirm that) I will start a new thread to see if we get any takers for future ones - Hope George will take us up on it eventualy.

Lets get on with fixing things instead of blaming other people for breaking them!

Cheers

D.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST,ian
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 06:04 PM

Great to see i stirred a few people.Yes i will use capital I if you want me to and yes i will use my opinion.
If you are the organiser or performer in any form,ie Support or main performer,it is all a labour of love.You seem to think i have never travelled long distances to play for free,WRONG.You also think you know my daytime job and a little about me,WRONG.
Yes i do think people who do any job that is regarded as a pass time by many is lucky.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 07:13 PM

I don't know any job done by anyone else that I consider a pastime. It's their job. If they're not good enough they don't succeed. I don't want the pressure of being a pro footballer thank you, but I can enjoy a kick around with my mates on the park. Same applies to music. If you can get up there and make your living, then do it. It's very different to having a session with some mates in a pub.
All jobs that pay bills are pressure not pastime!

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Anne Lister
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 04:41 AM

Just been catching up after a break and reading this thread with a degree of puzzlement.

First of all, the only times I have been offered the % or flat fee choice is in situations where the % would represent more than the flat fee, so it's hardly a hardship. It does mean that the club would get to make a slight profit on the door take, but as I judge whether or not to take the gig on the basis of the flat fee (in case it all goes pear-shaped because of another competing event in the same area or a sudden epidemic of 'flu) I have no problem at all with the club making that profit. It's not at my expense. I do my best for all gigs I play by using my mailing list (not just emails, but postcards to street addresses) because it's always in my best interest to have the biggest audience possible.

I can choose whether or not to take the lower paying gigs, just as a club can choose whether or not to pay my usual fee. I don't worry about the price at the door. The only time I've been seriously annoyed is when I agreed to do a gig for the door take and found that they passed a beer mug around half way through the night and suggested a donation of £1 - which represented less than the cost of a pint which I considered insulting.   The room on that occasion was packed, the audience very appreciative, so why on earth the organiser thought £1 was appropriate is a mystery to me. Luckily I sold a good quantity of CDs, but money from CD sales tends to go straight into the fund to make the next one so it's not the same as a fee in my accounting system.

As to this business of "fair pay" we're in very murky territory. Because I'm fairly useless at self promotion I do a number of different things to make ends meet and pay the bills, and I'm aware of how many people in "real" life work incredibly hard for remarkably little money, often travelling long distances, doing a lot of research in their own time and having had plenty of unpaid training. So I do still consider it a privilege to be able to earn any part of my living by doing something I love. I'm also constantly impressed by how hard the club organisers work and how much of an effort they make to ensure their club survives, when for them it's on top of a day job and for non-commercial rewards. My own experience over the past decade at least is that I've almost always had excellent accommodation offered to me and wonderful hospitality (I have some other tales to tell from the eighties, but that's a long time ago now).

There are other comparisons to be made: I have had long chats with people involved in the comedy circuit and the jazz circuit, both of which tend to run on similar lines to the folk clubs. Folk performers seem to get a better deal, from all I've heard, mostly because of the sense of community that we've built up over the years. And my husband is an actor working in the historical interpretation field - again, my normal fee is better than his, even though for his work there's considerably more job-specific research to do and longer hours to work after the travelling and preparation times.

Of course I'd love to have more gigs, earn more at each one and sell loads of albums. I'd also love to rate a feature in fRoots, be on Women's Hour, adopted by Smooth Ops and all the rest. If there's anyone on this thread who can help me with any of these aspirations, please let me know! In the meantime, I'm only worried that most clubs and most organisers are past their first flush of youth, so I'll check out George's other thread to see how we can improve matters in that direction.

Anne
http://www.annelister.com

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST,ian
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 11:12 AM

So,you don't know any Angler and golfers who would not work on his passtime full time ?I think the hours they spend with rod and club in hand says different.Their other half would say it is more of a job to them than their real jobs.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Blowzabella
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 11:58 AM

I'm sorry but I am going to refrain from making comments about men who spend hours with their rods in their hands - whether they do it professionally or just aspire to spending more time doing it.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST,ian
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 02:11 PM

guess i managed to end yet another thread,but at least i did it without smut lol.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 02:35 PM

No, far worse than that you managed to show a complete disregard for the importance of music, to denigrate the vocation of professional musicians by referring to their art as a 'pastime' and be utterly and inappropriately sexist in seaside 'comic' postcard stylee about the way in which you imagine some women fail to relate to men's work.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 02:54 PM

Ow, come on countess, ian's finishing in a conciliatory vein; no need to kick him in the "i"s. It's Saturday night, let's crack open a bottle, put Steeleye Span on and think of nice things.

OK, Steeleye was a joke.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 03:06 PM

Equating professional musicians with hobbyists who just got lucky or with cruel bloodsportspersons who torture fish for fun or hit balls mindlessly around a gold course is hardly 'conciliatory'. Nor is calling Blowzabella 'smutty'.

Let him be condemned to listening to Steeleye as punishment. The whole lot, omitting Please To See The King and Storm Force 10.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 03:32 PM

Steeleye Span - thats not punishment - thats pleasure :-)

String him up by the scrotum and burn him at the stakes LOL :-)

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: oggie
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 04:31 PM

Real jobs (being it singing, fishing, or working in an office) equals real money to pay real bills. That's the difference between the hobbyist, the semi-pro (who makes a bit extra) and the pro who if they don't make money can't pay the bills with all that that entails. Different field but been there, done that, ain't nice.

All the best

Steve Ogden

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 05:30 PM

I guess anyone doing a job for real deserves more respect than those who just review or criticise. I will therefore refrain from commenting on anyones chosen occupation or performance. I will however head for bed wondering why some people are not happy unless they are involved in argument and confrontation.

I'll try and get back into fixing rather than fighting when the current spate of sabre rattling and nonsensical rhetoric is over.

Good night.

Dave

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 05:44 AM

Here is    something that does annoy me.
The different pricing for different guests,that implies that one guest is better than another,when it may be that one guest is more expensive because he has an agent to pay.
Following on from this, tickets only for some guests,but not for others,again because one guest, may have an agent to pay,and so is more expensive,but the impression the punter gets is that the act that is having tickets sold is better,which is often not the case.
I know I said earlier that ,I didnt care how much was charged at the door providing I got my fees,I should have added providing all guests appear at that club for the same door price.
now I know there is nothing I can do about it,and in the end its up to the organiser, how they price their door[butPricing differently for different artists, I think sends out the wrong message about quality].

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 05:49 AM

the next thing that happens is the promoter spends more effort promoting the more expensive guest,[if he doesnt hasve arts funding]because the money 300[hypothetically]as against 150, comes out of his own pocket so he promotes twice as hard .

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 06:04 AM

Well I can say that I promote every performer in the same way.

I have only put the price up once, becuase I needed to ensure recovery of costs and a limit of 70 people.

Once the price gets above a certain amount, then I do need to do that.

If you put a band on you would expect to pay more money and if you don't have funding, then you need to recover the cost.

My ticket prices for Saturday concerts are normally £5 Only if the fees go above a certain threshold, do I have to consider the ticket price increase.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 06:36 AM

How do we get round that though, Dick? If we book you and you are quite happy to turn up for, for instance, £100, we can charge 40 people £2.50 each. This is quite significant because 40 is round about the maximum we can get in our folk club room. OK? Next week we book Show of hands. We charge, as you suggest, the same on the door. So Phil and Steve get £50 each - Making you twice as good as either of them individualy? Next week we book

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 06:44 AM

whoops - slipped a buuton there - Next week we book the Battlefield Band. 4 performers have to come all the way from Scotland for £25 each. Doesn't seem right to me.

OK the above examples may be a bit exteme but, as an artist, Dick, tell me how I can charge the same door fee for artists who charge diferent prices when I know the most I can get in our room is 40 people. As it happens we do charge the same on the door every Monday apart from the free or very cheap singers nights. It does sort of pan out becaue we know that the better the artist the bigger than pull and the more people turm up. Apart from when we got 6 people in to see Johnny Silvo :-( But that is the contrary folk audience for you!

It is not a rhetorical question btw - I really DO want to know how other people address this issue!

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 07:19 AM

"Here is something that does annoy me.
The different pricing for different guests,that implies that one guest is better than another,"

Why, Dick? Concerts at every level charge different amounts for different performers. I had Park Bench Social Club a couple of weeks ago. Young, fresh, exciting musucians - £8 on the door. I have Ralph McTell in a couple of months. Tickets are £16.50. It's not a value judgement. It's about what the market will take, based on many different factors, not least of which is the artist's fee.

Are you suggesting that every artist should receive the exact same fee, regardless of longevity of career, size of fanbase, etc?

And if people will pay more in a venue to see some artists than others, why not in a folk club?

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 07:48 AM

I agree ,it may not be a value judgement by you Ruth,but punters may see it differently,.
and as I pointed out THE PROMOTER may have to pay more because there is an agent involved.,and the more expensive guest may not necessarily attract more people.
I should have also made clear that I was talking about folk clubs.
Now at folk festivals this doesnt happen[people may be getting paid different rates] but there is an overall festival ticket price.
clubs are clubs,not in my opinion concerts,the best sort of clubs in my opinion are those where,people will go every week., regardless of the guest and having faith in the organiser, in so far that whoever he books, will be what they want to hear.
to Dave Polshaw, I have to come all the way from Ireland,YESyouare doing the right thing Dave, by charging the same price on the door.
and there is an alternative,if you think your going to have more people, find a bigger venue for specific nights[I realise that may not be easy].,but with forward planning it may be possible,although your regular audience may not want to come to the different venue.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 09:51 AM

the first folk club I went to,in 1966, was the Downe folk club,I was 15 years old and still at school.
The entrance fee was two shillings for members and two shillings and sixpence for non members.among the guests I saw there were Don Shepherd,Ralph May[mctell],pete Stanley and wizz jones,Downes and Beer,Joe Stead,GerryLockran,Cliff Aungier,a bluegrass group called the red clay ramblers,Dave Bryant,DavePlane,the price was the same on the door whether the group was a solo artist or a group.
as a schoolboy I could afford this,and was bitten by the bug,and later went on to record lps, cds, and play many clubs myself,if the entrance price had been more, I couldnt have afforded it,everybody who talks about encouraging young people into clubs should bear this in mind.
folk music should not become an entertainment that only the wealthy can afford.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 10:34 AM

We have only booked you when you have been in the UK anyway, Dick - As in at the Lancaster Maritime festival. But seeing as we got the dates you were booked wrong we are better steering clear of that;-)

A larger venue IS an alternative but we need to look at the sums and logistics very carefuly. Yes - we can book the 466 seat theatre at the Lowry for £800. 466 x £2.50 = £1165. Less £800 for the room hire means the artists gets £365. If we only get 50 people there we are well stuffed:-(

We are no longer a folk club in that case though we are a concert. How many people do you think we can have in the ausience and still call it a folk club? Can we move from a venue we have been at for 25 years and say it is the same folk club? Don't want to sound like I am purposely finding fault but these are all issue that I, as an organiser need to consider.

From reading this thread it is getting harder and harder to do all the time we need to -

Pay the Artist a living wage
Charge a reasonable fee on the door to make folk accesible to all
Charge the same on the door regardless of what the artist charges
Make sure the artist is well looked after
Make sure the audience is catered to
Move from venue to venue to ensure the audience can fit
Ensure the folk club is part of the community and enhances that area

The list seems endless! Maybe I should just pack it all in!

Dave

PS - You know I won't;-)

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 10:36 AM

I can confirm(re an earlier post) that Dave Polshaw runs a great club, friendly, a joy to play in, and very high quality floor-singers. I was there with the Boat band, and we'd go back any time. Now, the relevant point about that visit is I can't remember whether we played for a flat fee or door money. I could look it up, but I'm not going to bother. basically, what I mean is, it doesn't actually matter that much. Sometimes a promoter wants one thing, sometimes anotjher. A deal can always be struck. Certainly not a topic to shout at anybody about. It;'s not as if we are discussing the meaning of "folk" or the relative merits of football teams.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 11:41 AM

Thanks, Greg - I'm all embraced now...

It was a % BTW. 100% of the door as we always do plus the raffle to which you kindly donated an album. The only difference was because it was not a 'standard' folk club night - Ie a Friday rather than a Monday we let you set the door fee and the format of the night. If I remember rightly it was £6 and you played for most of the night with a couple of our residents doing a warm up.

I think it worked very well and we now have a series of extra nights lined up for Fridays - A regular last Friday of the month with club residents doing extended concert spots and others I am keeping for such as yourselves, George and any wandering acts we may be able to
book at reasonably short notice (Ie < 3 months.) It must be made quite clear that this is NOT for regular club artists who make their annual visit but for acts we would not normaly have on for one reason or another.

I will start a new thread on that, honest, but I have a lot going on at the moment that will become apparant in the new thread later this week.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 11:42 AM

yes I have played Daves folk club,and it was enjoyable,.I played for a flat fee,
normally I play for a flat fee or if the organiser is happy with it ,a flat fee against 80 per cent of the door, whichever is greater.
I remarked that I found it annoying,different prices for different guests at the same folk club,because it can give a wrong impression about the quality of the artists,and what the punter may be paying for is the extra agents fees.
I have been performing for 35 years,and have never found it necessary to use an agent,as far as i,m concerned they are parasites.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 11:46 AM

I agree, Dick. We never book through agents. The difference in price is what the artists charge us NOT agents fees.

D.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST,ian
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 12:23 PM

BOO HOO

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 12:58 PM

Agents are not parasites - that's just purile. Like performers they do a day's work for an day's pay. Full time artists are often unable or unwilling to book gigs because they don't have the skills, the contacts or - once they get busy - the time. Remember, agents work for artists, not the other way round. If we didn't need them they could not survive. And prices are NOT hiked to pay agents. The reason is this: Only artists who can command higher fees can afford to hire an agent.

Market forces set the price. Get used to it.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 01:20 PM

peurile equals childish,you may have a different opinion to me but that doesnt make my opinion childish .
sorry your talking rot,when I was running a folk club I booked both Ewan Maccoll and peggy seeger ,Martin Carthy. Artists of the highest calibre,and booked all of them without the use of an agent,in fact Martin used to be booked regularly and I never used an agent.
if a performer normally charges 150 or 200 the agents commission is going to be an extra,if the agent is working on a percentage basis,its in his interest to make the fee as high as possible,that way he gets more.
now we have the internet ,and promotion is nearly free,lets hope agents become redundant.
And then we had the agents who used to pretend that therewas a years waiting list for certain artists when there wasnt,thats just dishonest.,it may be good business but its dishonest and has no place on the folk scene.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST,guest2
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 02:00 PM

Captain, your 2/6 in 1966 is now £4.50p
I have an agent, and I've always had an agent. I pay the agent to take all the rejections, the "Can't stand him" comments, the shit that all people looking for bookings have to take. All I get from the agent is the GOOD news. This is worth money to me which I am happy to pay my agent. If I worked without an agent I would charge exactly the same fee. I pay my agent out of MY pocket. All the people I work for have no problem with this. If I had to chase around after my own gigs I'd have worn myself out years ago.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 02:03 PM

I know lots of lovely agents.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 02:23 PM

not agent provacateurs, I hope.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 02:45 PM

A huge number of venues book virtually all their acts through agents. So, if you're a performer and want the work from those promoters, you need an agent. That's the way it works. Yes it costs you money, but it will extend the work you do, and shield you from a certain amount of hassle.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 05:07 PM

but it has nothing to do with folk music,it belongs in the world of the Don Ardens and pop music,its all about money,and commercialism.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Jim Lad
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 05:16 PM

Take a look at the types of wages you've been discussing here and tell us what's in it for an agent. How much would you be willing to give for an agents services?

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 05:19 PM

Cap'n: don't knock all agents. My very wonderful Irish agent brought the Boat Band to gigs in Ballydehob, Skull, Ahakista, Bantry, Kilcrohane, Skibbereen, Baltimore, Cape Clear, Shirkin, Clonakilty, Durrus, Castletownsend etc etc etc. Now, isn't that a lovely thing? Well, it was for me anyway.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST,guest 2
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 05:32 PM

Captain, I recently did a gig where I broke the percentage and earned £300. I paid my agent £45. He has to book a lot of gigs to make a living! It's not about the Don Ardens. Agents for folk artists are just as nice people as club organisers and the club audience. We're all doing our best to keep alive something we treasure. it's bitter people like yourself that don't help us.
Chill out man!! ( as we used to say)

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 05:36 PM

I saw part of your gig in Ballydehob,.
MAY 4 5 6 2007,Ballydehob JAZZ FESTIVAL www.ballydehobjazzfestival.com
no agents involved,and also ballydehob trad festival,april 20 21 22.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST,guest 2
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 05:36 PM

And I should add captain, that by breaking the percentage I left the club a nice profit. What's wrong with that for God's sake?

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 04:26 AM

the folkscene has no room for dishonesty,the agent who used to pretend to folk club organisers,that two well known performers had a years waiting list, when they didnt, was being dishonest.
I am not bitter, neither do I need to chillout,I have a different opinion to you.,So can you be polite please.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 04:46 AM

There are dishonest agents, unprofessional performers and crap organisers. I agree captain that there is no room for the such, but hey, they exist - that's life. It doesn't make all agents, performers or organisers bad. Rules need not cater for the exceptions, and any generalisation is bound to contain risk.
Thankfully there are very few of them, the majority striving honestly to variously make a living/further the cause of folk, and having (and giving) fun in the process.

It is not the mechanism used to calculate the artist's fee that is the issue, IMHO; I have at different times been paid using just about every possible permutation, and I am always happy to accept whichever mechanism the club booking me feels most comfortable with (and I would bet pound to a dollar that this holds true for the majority of performers).

No, the issue I believe is whether the booking is successful in leaving both parties happy at the end. It is both a commercial and a social transaction, and both elements should be treated satisfactorily, for it to be successful. And it is hard to complete a successful transaction if one party approaches the other with suspicion and antagonism.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 08:00 AM

I agree ,and out of the thousands of gigs I have done,I find it difficult to recall bad gigs,.I see nothing wrong with flat fee against 80 per cent whichever the higher ,providing both parties are agreeable,and that the 20 percent allows for the promoters expenses, room hire, etc.
since the definition of a parasite is one who lives on another,perhaps its the performer with the agent who is the parasite.anyway I agree there must be good agents as well as bad.

Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 08:00 AM

300