Absurdities in songs - any examples?

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 08:47 AM

Arthur Dent: 'It's times like this I wish I'd listened to what my mother told me.'

Ford Prefect: 'Why, what did she say?'

AD: 'I don't know, I never listened!'

Thanks, Dougie.

LTS

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: GUEST,Bainbo at work
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 07:54 AM

Walk tall, walk straight, and look the World right in the eye;
That's what my momma told me when I was about knee-high"

How do you look the world in the eye, when you're only knee-high?

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Midchuck
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 07:44 AM

If you want to change the subject of the thread to changed word meanings over time...

I have a copy of a page of a book of Robert Burns' poems, containing one entitled: Cock up your Beaver.

I swear I am not making this up.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 06:48 AM

Major Bloodnok, MT, MT, MT

What are all those MTs after your name for?

I get threepence back on each one....



Thanks Spike...
:-)

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Scrump
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 06:37 AM

Well, b*gg*r me George - snap! :-)

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 05:51 AM

I'm glad you didn't say "in" their name, LTS!
Let's see... MBCS CEng BSc Msc - keep them jars away from me...

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 05:26 AM

Kiz, I concur with your obvervation about the peanut butter.
Letters after my name are Accredited member of ISTD....CRCCYP....BA...and I am unable to open a jar of peanut butter because I never buy it.... I hate the stuff!

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Scrump
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 05:14 AM

That's exactly the sort of thing I mean, LTS :D

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 05:07 AM

I've always held that the more letters after their name a person has, the less likely they are to be able to open a jar of peanut butter.

LTS

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Scrump
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 05:02 AM

Yes, LTS, some people confuse 'educated' with 'intelligent'. Some of the least intelligent people I've known were also the highest qualified academically.

By this, I mean that although they had reached a high level in their chosen field of study, they were absolutely useless in every other field, and they couldn't grasp everyday issues that the rest of us take in our stride. I guess that's the price they paid for their devotion to their work.

Conversely, I often meet people who I can tell are intelligent, but they just happen to have no qualifications to speak of. They just opted out of higher education, but that doesn't make them thick.

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 04:33 AM

It is possible to be clever without being literate. In an age where literacy is counted as the norm, we often ridicule those who learn by observation and experience. Not everyone with a degree or scholarship is clever, they just read the right books.

LTS

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Scrump
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 04:19 AM

Georgiansilver: 'clever' can mean 'manually skilled' or 'dexterous' (see my post above to George). So that would fit your carpenter grandfather.

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 04:13 AM

Would you look at that.. I got a 100 and didn't realise it!!

Whoo hoo!! Good day for me today!

LTS

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 04:01 AM

And my heart remained with that Galway shawl. ..

The girl means nothing to him, he wants the shawl!

LTS

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 03:59 AM

I've always had a problem with the Blacksmith too... 'He fairly won my heart, wrote me a letter.' Must have been one damned fine love letter, but to be honest, I'd rather have something a bit more... physical?

LTS

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 03:25 AM

I believe that the word 'clever' had more than one meaning when I was very young...my grandfather... a carpenter...was considered by the villagers where I lived to be clever....but he lacked education and general knowledge. He was an excellent carpenter and even made me a hutch for my rabbit which looked like a tudor house.

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 02:46 AM

Respect, Robin - just goes to show that all stereotypes can be 100% wrong.

(Actually, I did some smithing too as a kid, and I was crap at it, my uncle just set me to pumping the bellows in the end)

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 12:10 AM

Well, I think the really classic reaction to that particular song was demonstrated in the movie "Animal House", wasn't it? ;-)

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 11:27 PM

leeneia

see, you have 'folked' the song - it'll never be the same again...

:-)

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: leeneia
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 11:00 PM

Not an absurdity, really, but I have never been happy with two verses in "I Gave My Love a Cherry."

One starts "I gave my love a chicken." A chicken is far from being a romantic bird. When singing, I would rather not think about chickens.

And then there's "a baby when it's sleeping, there's no cry-en."

True, but for how long? Not a satisfactory resolution of the riddle.

I have folk processed the song as follows:

Riddle: "I showed my love a sparrow that had no bone."
Answer "A sparrow's egg in springtime, it has no bone."

I also got rid of the verb "pippin." I don't feel like explaining "pippin" over and over.


Riddle: I gave my love a baby, with no cryen."
Answer: A baby in its mother, there's no cryen."

That at least resolves the issue for a longer time.

Now I enjoy the song more.

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 09:13 PM

Bill

... but he was 'remembering' when he was.... :-P



"the imagery - a well-built bloke holding up a hammer, presumably smudged from the fire and scarred from the flying sparks... "

Now George, I've done some blacksmithing, and you've met me.... :-)

... see just how wrong that imagery is?

:-P

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: GUEST,Bill
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 07:42 PM

Foolstroop: Well wasn't 21 when he wrote the song then was he?

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 07:14 PM

Hey, people...I've been reading your critiques, most of which I think are unimaginative and petty. Is it okay with all of you if I, on behalf of the world's songwriters, stick my thumbs in my ears, wiggle my fingers, and blow a great big raspberry in your collective direction?

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 06:54 PM

Not what I said, Bert. Respect to all blacksmiths. No, the point is the imagery - a well-built bloke holding up a hammer, presumably smudged from the fire and scarred from the flying sparks...

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Bert
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 05:41 PM

If you think a blacksmith isn't clever the you try doing it!!!

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 06:31 AM

I think you're right, Scrump, that's why I wondered why the folk process hasn't updated it; and no, "clever clogs" was not meant as a dig!

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Scrump
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 06:22 AM

OK George! :-)

(I hope you don't think I'm a clever clogs for raising these points!)

But when the song was written, maybe the 'handsome' meaning was more commonplace and understood. We usually take it as read that some words may have changed in meaning since the song was written, but it won't stop us using them in the original sense.

'Gay' is a good example where it's sometimes difficult to sing a line without people sniggering, because using the modern meaning can totally change the interpretation of a line.

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 06:12 AM

Yes, according to Arbuthnot (circa 1690), the Scottish scholar.
But not a meaning widely remembered today, surely? Otherwise expressions like "clever dick" would take on new and wonderful dimensions; literally! Though "clever clogs" would sit quite well. If that was the original meaning (quite likely) I wonder why the folk process failed to update this song.

Anyway, I like my interpretation better - never fails to make me smile!

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Scrump
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 05:54 AM

George: ah, but 'clever' can also mean 'well-shaped' or 'handsome' - check this out, for example.

That would seem to fit the bill?

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 05:42 AM

Yes Scrump - but the song limits itself to how he "looked", i.e. the imagery. I don't think the lyric implies that he looked "so manually skilled" or "so dexterous".

Now, if the line was "so hunky", I could have lived with that.

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Scrump
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 05:34 AM

Although, George, 'clever' can also mean 'dexterous' or 'manually skilled', which I guess could apply to a blacksmith, in spite of his mental ability? :-)

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 05:25 AM

Shame on you all, you missed the most obvious (and widely sung in folk clubs) line - from "Blacksmith":

"...with his hammer in his hand, he looked so clever..."

Clever? CLEVER? "he looked like a thug" perhaps, "thicker than two short planks" maybe, but "clever"?

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 06:26 PM

"Paul Simon, Leaves That Are Green- "I was 21 years when I wrote this song, Im 22 now but I won't be for long"... So how old was he when when he wrote the second part of that( which is part of the song he wrote at 21)? "

It can take a long time to get some songs written...



"Had the word been 'Hackney' rather than 'Hansom' the meaning would come down as meaning a boatman 'for hire'. The word Hackney still being used for licensed Taxi cabs to this day, and also used for journalists who offer their skills for hire (an old 'hack').
John Mortimore even allows "Rumpole" to occasionally describe himself as a 'Hack' lawyer"

... which is where the term "Computer Hacker" came from - to describe someone who had been around a while and knew a lot of clever tricks.

Some damn fool Yank Reporter misused the word for what were known as 'Crackers'...


I have always wondered if any other Johnny Standley material was out there.

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 03:59 PM

O.K Nigel Thanks..hope you didn't think I was harangueing you. Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: Absurd ditties 'n' songs - any examples?
From: Severn
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 03:13 PM

Ebbie, you're right, is is absurd. If your mother lived to a ripe old age, no one would have to shake her hand for you. Both her hands would probably be shaking quite a bit on their own. No help needed.


And what's a Hansom Cabbing boy doing on a ship? They don't even go out on the lakes in Central park....


I always thought it was:

"The Peony known as wildflower
Busted down its pot
And its roots began to rot...."


And let me get this straight....Clementine drove the ducklings to the water and they drove her to the drink?


One of the biggest absurdities to me, of course, was Roy Acuff's garbling of the words to "Wabash Cannonball" and The Carter Family's garbling of "Wildwood Flower" still being accepted as gospel after all these years.




I'm SO confused.....

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 02:18 PM

My point was that maybe the wording (as it has come down) possibly relied on two errors. Firstly the writer understanding 'Hansom' as meaning 'for hire', and then mistakenly writing it down as 'Handsome'

Had the word been 'Hackney' rather than 'Hansom' the meaning would come down as meaning a boatman 'for hire'. The word Hackney still being used for licensed Taxi cabs to this day, and also used for journalists who offer their skills for hire (an old 'hack').
John Mortimore even allows "Rumpole" to occasionally describe himself as a 'Hack' lawyer

I hope this illuminates, reather than further muddying the waters.

CHEERS
Nigel

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 02:08 PM

My guess... Carrickfergus.

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 01:47 PM

Nigel
Sorry if I am misunderstanding you but why the reference to "So perhaps the singer is looking for a boatman for hire to do the rowing". ?.............

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 01:38 PM

Georgiansilver:
Nigel....mmmm interesting but was not the Hansom cab made by a cab maker called Hansom? I was given to believe this on visiting Buckland Abbey in Devon. I am of course prepared to be educated on this..does someone have the 'knowledge' needed. (Excuse the pun)

Quite right!
That's why I wrote:
Hackney (then and now) was taken to mean 'plying for hire' and it would be a reasonable error to assume that the more modern vehicle had been named in the same way, rather than from the name of its creator.

CHEERS
Nigel

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Scrump
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 11:23 AM

Surely a 1952 Vincent had magneto ignition and would not have had keys?

Ah, but it was chained to the lamp-post in the street outside.

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 11:19 AM

Scrump: Shouldn't that be "In the altogether"?

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: dj bass
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 11:17 AM

Oh yes, Midchuck, and he gave her the keys of the Vincent. Surely a 1952 Vincent had magneto ignition and would not have had keys?

Still a great song though.

dj

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Midchuck
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 10:14 AM

I love Richard Thompson's stuff, and "1952 Vincent Black Lightning" is one of my favorites, and I sing it, but -

"Shotgun blast to the chest left nothing inside..." And he lives long enough for her to be called into the hospital to see him, and is able to carry on a conversation with her before he dies? We're talking deader than a smelt, within seconds, here.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: GUEST,DocJ
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 10:01 AM

Sorry the Bascom Lamar Lundford's song is:
'..bright and summer's morning ... '(my mistake)

DocJ

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Scrump
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 07:57 AM

This line from I Am The Walrus (Lennon-McCartney):

"I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together"

That means that I, you and he are one and the same person.

So the statement "we are all together" is pointless.

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 07:47 AM

Shouldn't the hole actually be ON the bucket?

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 07:25 AM

Bright and Sunny Morning, the Ground All Covered in Snow".

What on earth is wrong with that? Just because there's snow on the ground the sun doesn't stop shining.

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: Alec
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 07:00 AM

Billy Bragg "borrowed" Paul Simon's phrase for the opening line of "A New England".
Doesn't fully work there either.

Subject: RE: Absurdities in songs - any examples?
From: GUEST,Big Bill
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 06:56 AM

Paul Simon, Leaves That Are Green- "I was 21 years when I wrote this song, Im 22 now but I won't be for long"... So how old was he when when he wrote the second part of that( which is part of the song he wrote at 21)?

Subject: Lyr Add: IT'S IN THE BOOK (Johnny Standley)
From: Scrump
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 06:33 AM

All this analysis of song lyrics and finding fault with them reminds me of "It's In The Book" by Johnny Standley (1952). He recorded this sketch as a preacher giving a sermon about "Little Bo Peep". Here are the first part of the lyrics I found on the web:

I have a message for you - a very sad message!
My subject for this evening will be Little Bo Peep.
It says here, "Little Bo Peep, who was a little girl, has lost her sheep, And doesn't know where to find them."
Now that's reasonable, isn't it?
It's, it's reasonable to assume, if Little Bo Peep had lost her sheep,
It's only natural that she wouldn't know where to find them.
That, that basically is reasonable, but, uh, "leave them alone".
Now that overwhelms me, completely overwhelms me.
The man said she lost her sheep, turns right around and boldly states,
"She doesn't know where to find them".
And then has the stupid audacity to say, "Leave them alone"!
Now! Now, now think for a moment! Think!
If the sheep were lost, and you couldn't find them,
You'd have to leave them alone, wouldn't you?
So, "Leave them alone". "Leave them alone".
It's in the book!

"Leave them alone and they", they being the sheep, "they will come
home".
Ah yes, they'll come home.
Oh, there'll be a brighter day tomorrow, they will come home!
It's in the book.

"They will come home… a-waggin' their tails…".
Pray tell me what else could they wag?
"They will come home a-waggin' their tales … behind them… behind
them"!
Did we think they'd wag them in front of them?
Of course, they might have come home in reverse.
They could have done that, I really don't know.
But, none the less, it's in the book.

(It's the way he tells 'em! It's a lot funnier to listen to than it is on the printed page. Anyone else remember it?)