John Leonard [ finally ]

Subject: John Leonard [ finally ]
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 08:08 AM

Over on the BBC Radio 2 Folk and Acoustic Forum John Leonard has at last come up with some figures about the BBC 2 Folk Awards voting, I'm not impressed.

eric

Subject: RE: John Leonard [ finally ]
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 08:15 AM

You surely didn't expect to be, did you?

Subject: RE: John Leonard [ finally ]
From: Scrump
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 08:25 AM

He only gives the figures for the 'controversial' Best Trad Track award (at least he admits it was controversial for White Hare to be nominated, which is something...

What about the figures for all the other awards? Didn't he promise to publish them all, and not just the figures for the one award? I don't have a transcipt of what he said (on the R4 Feedback programme).

Subject: RE: John Leonard [ finally ]
From: GUEST,Keith
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 08:28 AM

So only 67 out of 171 even voted on "Best Tradional Track". Says an awful lot about the interests of that panel, and even more about their interest in traditional music!

Apparently best contemporary song had a low turnout too. I presume that is because to vote for a specific song you actually have to listen to a CD and know what is on it...

Subject: RE: John Leonard [ finally ]
From: Folkiedave
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 08:28 AM

No, but I do!!!

RB: Well, how about the compromise, where all you publish is the number of votes cast?

JL: I have absolutely no problem with doing that at all. What I don't, what I..

RB: So you are going to do it? You're going to do that then? So everyone can switch on and look at your noticeboard, you're website and then they'll know.

JL: Let me tell you what I don't want to do, first of all, and that is go beyond the four that are nominated. Because where do you stop? Now if you say, if I want to go down to number ten, would you want to know that you tenth or fifteenth best this year? Or would you prefer to know that you'd just not been voted for? That's how...

RB: Alright, how about votes for the top four then?

JL: I don't see why not.

RB: The producer of the Radio 2 Folk Awards, John Leonard. And he said he would publish those figures on the Radio 2 folk website after the award ceremony, so as not to give away who the out and out front runners are before the big night.

Subject: RE: John Leonard [ finally ]
From: Scrump
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 08:39 AM

Hmm, I guess that could be interpreted to mean he would only publish those 4 figures (for the nominations stage of one of the awards).

Not much given away really, was there?

Subject: RE: John Leonard [ finally ]
From: Folkiedave
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 09:01 AM

I took it to mean that for each category he would publish the Top four.......He is asked if he will publish the votes, he says he has no problem with that.

Subject: RE: John Leonard [ finally ]
From: Scrump
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 10:00 AM

Well, I thought that too Dave. Did the bit preceding the part you quoted make his intentions clearer?

Subject: RE: John Leonard [ finally ]
From: AlexB
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 10:28 AM

The bit preceding being:


RB: Well... Dave Eyre has another point, he thinks that the 150 people who vote on the short lists might not be entirely independent, and his answer is why not make the process transparent. You know, so for example we.. there.. we would know the numbers of votes cast, first for the nomination and then for the selection that put it first, second or third and how many votes it takes to get nominated and so on.. would you be that transparent?

JL. Um.. possibly. I mean we.. we have about 150..

RB: Ohh. Well what would persuade you, what would persuade you then?

JL: Let me tell you how we do it first of all, 'cause that's not quite accurate. There are about 150 people that we invite to vote, and round about 80% of them do, and they are drawn from people like: broadcasters; journalists; agents; record companies; people who run festivals, peoples whose job it is to make decisions about folk music during their daily..

RB: And can you be sure they are entirely independent?

JL: No, some of them are not entirely independent. That, you know, because obviously if we go to, its a very small community, and so if we go to a record company...uh.. they might vote for their own people. So we did a very interesting exercise this year. We looked at last years results and took out the votes of all the people who could be said to have a vested interest, and it made virtually no difference at all. Uh, people are very honest when they vote.

RB:But if people are very honest, then why not just let it be transparent and give the information, put it on your notice board and then everybody can see who voted for what, why and, presumably, end of controversy.

JL: I don't, the reason that I don't publish a list of the people who vote, because I think it would focus attention on them and the better off performers would be able to lobby for their votes.

Subject: RE: John Leonard [ finally ]
From: Scrump
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 10:32 AM

Thanks for posting that. It still doesn't make it totally clear that he was saying he would publish the top 4 for every award. I suppose I and others must have read that into it.

He's as cunning as a fox who's just been appointed Professor of Cunning at Oxford University, is that Leonard bloke.

Subject: RE: John Leonard [ finally ]
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 12:10 PM

>So only 67 out of 171 even voted on "Best Tradional Track". Says an awful lot about the interests of that panel, and even more about their interest in traditional music>

Here's an interesting story...........
A good friend of mine, who runs a successful folk festival and is on the panel of folk's movers and shakers, every year comes round with the Smooth Ops blurb, and asks the same question. "Who am I going to vote for?" He seems to think that I know what's going on, although I am not on the panel.
We are talking about the nominations here. Although it should be easy, given that they list a raft of 'suggestions'. He always says that he's never heard of half of them. It's actually not that easy to come up with 4 nominations for each category, and there is always an element of "Who's turn is it this year?" Maybe that's why the top 4 in each category tend to follow the 'suggestions'.
Neither of us had a clue as to which Trad track to nominate. When the nominations came out, I think he voted for Tim Van Eyken, but I'm not sure.
Let's face it, the industry are going to push their latest hot products, in the same way as if it were a public vote, the various factions would push their own particular faves.
It's all subjective and the results don't mean very much. But, and it's a big but, the amount of media coverage the whole fiasco generates DOES mean a lot. It all helps to give the impression that folk is now A BIG DEAL.
For obvious reasons, I am keeping identities under wraps!!

Subject: RE: John Leonard [ finally ]
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 12:22 PM

"they list a raft of 'suggestions'."

Now what does that tell you?
In my book the people they choose should be au fait with the current folk scene, and be able to supply their own candidates.
Buggins turn is not how I expect these awards to be made!

Giok