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How to play double reeds/Bombarde

RangerSteve 22 Feb 07 - 01:11 PM
JohnInKansas 22 Feb 07 - 06:05 PM
Greg B 22 Feb 07 - 06:08 PM
JohnInKansas 22 Feb 07 - 06:28 PM
Bernard 22 Feb 07 - 06:35 PM
mandotim 22 Feb 07 - 07:00 PM
muppitz 23 Feb 07 - 08:09 AM
GUEST 23 Feb 07 - 11:35 AM
Bernard 23 Feb 07 - 12:20 PM
RangerSteve 23 Feb 07 - 03:21 PM
catspaw49 23 Feb 07 - 03:42 PM
Geoff the Duck 23 Feb 07 - 03:45 PM
RangerSteve 23 Feb 07 - 08:40 PM
Geoff the Duck 24 Feb 07 - 07:24 AM
Bernard 24 Feb 07 - 07:32 AM
Jack Campin 24 Feb 07 - 06:51 PM
GUEST,guest2 12 Jul 09 - 01:49 PM
Piers Plowman 12 Jul 09 - 02:23 PM
TonyA 13 Jul 09 - 11:41 AM
Jack Campin 13 Jul 09 - 12:23 PM
TonyA 13 Jul 09 - 07:26 PM
Jack Campin 13 Jul 09 - 07:54 PM
GUEST,Billy 13 Jul 09 - 10:14 PM
Les in Chorlton 14 Jul 09 - 04:02 AM
PatMcGee 14 Jul 09 - 06:39 AM
Micca 14 Jul 09 - 07:03 AM
GUEST,Myuzikat 22 Dec 09 - 11:46 AM
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Subject: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: RangerSteve
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 01:11 PM

I purchased a bombarde (French folk oboe) and it was delivered today. I got some noise out of it, or more precisely "NOISE", but I was wondering; do I hold the reed so just the tip is between my lips? It tickles like crazy, not just my lips, but the hairs in my ears vibrate and it's really annoying. Will I get used to it?

And finally, do they sell mutes for these things? I understand why it's called a bombarde. My neighbors, the closest of whom lives a half a mile away, are probably wonderng what that noise was.

Thanks,
Steve


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 06:05 PM

The length of reed inside your mouth, clear of your lips, must be free to vibrate at the pitch you want to produce. On most double reed instruments with which I'm vaguely familiar (not including folk oboe) the reed is sized so that as a first guess the length that extends inside you - and is free to wiggle - is about 1 to 1.5 times the width of the reed at the tip. That's a very rough approximation, but may give you a starting point to get a steady sound.

As you gain experience, you'll be able to control the volume sometwhat; and with lots of practice you'll likely get so you hardly hear it enough to bother you.(?????)

John


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: Greg B
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 06:08 PM

That's because he'll be deaf :-)


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 06:28 PM

Shhhhhhhhhh

John


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: Bernard
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 06:35 PM

The bombarde uses a reed system similar to a Highland Bagpipe chanter - in fact, that's what I use in my bombarde because they are easier to obtain.

Unlike an oboe, pretty much the whole of the reed has to be allowed to do its own thing - put your lips around the reed just beyond the string that binds the two reeds together.

Try here for starters!


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: mandotim
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 07:00 PM

Try a pm to moonunit (mudcat member). Classically trained oboist and bombarde aficionado. She knows all about this stuff. Jude, are you out there?
Tim


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: muppitz
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 08:09 AM

The other option is to get her on myspace, either on Isambarde's page or her own, can't remember the link but I think her myspace name is Judeunit!
She'll set you right!

muppitz
x


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 11:35 AM

quietly please


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: Bernard
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 12:20 PM

Okay!


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: RangerSteve
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 03:21 PM

THanks, everyone. I may have to wait until Spring, when I can go outside to practice and not upset my room mate too much. I hope I don't cause my neighbors' livestock to stampede.


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 03:42 PM

There is nothing like a double reed instrument of any sort played badly...........and most are. Bassoons are pleasant enough, but are also subject to piss poor players providing only out of tune farting sounds. English Horns, Concert Oboes, the oboe d'amour, and the like are generally played very badly producing high pitched farts and assorted quacks. ALL "folk" oboes are suitable only for outdoor usage, their general tone sounding like a flock of ducks that has been set afire.

Just go buy a recorder or a whistle or something........I love ya' Steve, but give the world a break. No more folk oboes are needed.

Spaw----former bassoonist


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 03:45 PM

Hey Spaw - Flock of Ducks, eh?
Maybe that's why I coudn't resist getting one.
Just need a house far enough from civilisation to be able to practice and learn it...
Quack!
GtD.


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: RangerSteve
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 08:40 PM

Fortunately for me, I have a house far enough away from any neighbors, so I think I'll keep the bombarde and maybe get good at playing it. If I can't learn, I have the sense to realize it and put it away.


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 07:24 AM

One important part of bombarde is that it is a high pressure/low air volume instrument. Playing it takes a lot of air pressure, which can be quite difficult to maintain for any period of time.
Quack!
GtD.


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: Bernard
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 07:32 AM

Yup - it's rare to see a solo player, as a group of players can take it in turns to rest.


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: Jack Campin
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 06:51 PM

You may not see many solo French bombarde players, but the Turkish zurna is often played solo with no breaks (or with a drum, or with a drum or two and another zurna playing a moving drone). I have seen a zurna player providing the music for a village wrestling match in north-east Turkey - this area's tradition was of completely unaccompanied solo zurna playing. He kept going with continuous circular breathing for half an hour at a time. It was a more impressive physical feat than what any of the wrestlers did.

I have also seen it played in a very small bar in Turkish Thrace. I think the idea was that it would wake up even the most comatose drunk enough that he'd reach into his pocket and buy another one. The zurna player wasn't in much better a state; he left the bar still playing in the back seat of a car while the driver weaved in reverse from one side of the street to the other crashing into both kerbs.

I suspect the best place to learn it from the masters in Turkey would be at an alcohol rehab clinic.


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: GUEST,guest2
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 01:49 PM

You can get a little info at 'ABC of the Bombarde' on 'Google'


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 02:23 PM

Well, as Sylvia Fine put it, an oboe is an ill wind that no one blows good.

I _love_ double-reed instruments and if I had 3000 Euros lying around doing nothing, I'd run out and buy an oboe. Congratulations on your bombarde and I wish you much pleasure and tolerant neighbours.

I took oboe lessons briefly in high school and I do remember the reed tickling a little. Don't let it bother you. And keep it out of your ears.

To the best of my knowledge, it's not possible to mute woodwinds because the sound doesn't just come out the end and blocking the openings would affect the way the column of air inside the instrument vibrates in such a way that the pitch would be affected.


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: TonyA
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 11:41 AM

I used to play bombarde in a dance band, with two conga players. I played oboe, too (not in the band), but that's different. I held the bombarde reed entirely in my mouth, and held the oboe reed just slightly inside with my lips on it to restrain and control it. The bombarde seemed at its best when unrestrained and just gloriously loud and abrasive.

The reed has to be very wet. That makes it easier to play and less ticklish. Soak it for a long time before playing, and keep salivating on it till you're done playing. Without the saliva, playing dries it out.

I don't know of any way to mute a bombarde, but it might tone it down a bit if you use an oboe reed or one of those plastic practice reeds for a bagpipe chanter. And it might seem a little quieter if you play it near the exhaust of a jet engine.


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 12:23 PM

For those moments when a bombarde sounds too discreet and retiring, there is a Turkish instrument (the name of which I have mercifully forgotten) which is a sort of sopranino bombarde. More decibels per gram than anything not using chemical explosives. I bought one in Istanbul a few years ago - gave it to a friend who lives in a house with six-foot-thick stone walls and a 400-year history of successfully withstanding armed attack by irate neighbours.


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: TonyA
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 07:26 PM

A mizmar?


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 07:54 PM

Mizmar is Arabic for zurna - I've never heard the word applied to anything but the full-sized ones. (Most good-quality mizmars in the Arab world these days are actually made in Turkey, so they'll have started life as zurnas).


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: GUEST,Billy
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 10:14 PM

My only experience of this instrument was at a concert by THE HOUSE BAND. Ged Foley told an amusing story of an early AM landing at UK Customs from France and being asked to open the case containing several Bombardes of differing sizes. "Wot's this here, then?" asked a suspicious customs offer on seeing what appeared to be a collection of pipes to be used for the smoking of illegal substances. "They are musical instruments." said Ged. "All right then, let's hear it." says HM Customs. So Ged puts one together and gives him a blast at high volume. Covering his ears, HM Customs yells "NO IT BLEEDIN' ISN'T!"


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 14 Jul 09 - 04:02 AM

Which causes more brain damage; Bombardes or Breton cider?

L in C


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: PatMcGee
Date: 14 Jul 09 - 06:39 AM

How to play a Bombarde? Loudly!

A couple of years ago at the Potomac Celtic Festival, I was there when Mock Pridori was doing their sound check. Festival sound checks are pretty short. Bill, as he pulled out his bombard, said something like, "At a festival, sound check is just to see if the levels are close to right."

As he blew on it, I yelled from the front row, "Crank it up!".

For some reason I didn't understand, the guy behind me took off his hat and started hitting me with it ;-)

Pat


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: Micca
Date: 14 Jul 09 - 07:03 AM

The Catalan Version is called a Grailler(sp)and we were in a procesion at Matadapera (nr Barcelona) I was carrying our Giant (12 feet tall made of clth and aluminium) The band were about 40 feet in front of us and had some large drums and 12 Graillers!!! My mate was shouting instructions to me from a foot away and I could not understand a word!! ( I blame this expierence alone for my defective hearing)
Having said that they were the right music for procesion and to dance a Giant to!! Mudcatter Manitas brought one back home but I heard his other half (Liz the Squeak threaten to insert it into a body orifice (unspecified) if he EVER struck it up within a mile of anything!


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Subject: RE: How to play double reeds/Bombarde
From: GUEST,Myuzikat
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 11:46 AM

Once you get a solid tone, play 4 and 8 count note counting slowly to build you strength. After about a month of daily practice you'll notice the whole thing gets easier to handle. You can relax your lips, hands and shoulder tension (you may not notice that you were tightening so much). Be sure to push the air up from your lower abdomin (diaphragm). Don't fill you cheeks with air trying to blow like extinguishing a candle. That way the only thing your mouth has to worry about is properly forming your lips about the reed and tonguing notes (using the tongue to "te" out single tones).

Bombardes or Zurnas, whatever you want to call them are like any other instrument you are learning. Say like a drumset. You may be subject to ridicule and intolerance while you are learning it. Try making a blanket tent in your room to practice under. 2 chairs back-to-back with about 3 feet of space between, through a blanket or 2 to make like a little cave. You scoot into the opening and play your head off (if you can do acoustic panel or something fancy like that, more power to you). Whatever you do, don't let people discourage you. Ancient art forms and musical instruments have survived because we keep them alive.

Yes, in the hands of a spastic amateur, the Bombarde can grate on you like a squeaking chaulk board, but hold the line (and the notes). Strengthen that armature and pretty soon they'll be asking you to play a jig at your local pub or charm a snake. Throw a little Coltrane in there and you'll rack up the cool creds.


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