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Songs About Duels and Dueling
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Subject: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Rapparee Date: 22 Feb 07 - 10:20 PM Does anyone have any songs about duels and dueling? I'm talking about the formal duel. Not battles, gunfights, or a killing in the heat of passion, but those things with an exchange of letters, seconds, and stuff like that. I've checked the DT and found two references to the word "duel" in songs and one reference to the plural. But the songs themselves were not about duels or dueling. This is pure curiousity, a bit of personal research. |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Amergin Date: 22 Feb 07 - 10:32 PM Maybe you need to look under the word "marriage". ;) |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Leadfingers Date: 22 Feb 07 - 11:00 PM Traditional songs (In UK ) seem to be from the 'ordinary' people while Duels were for The Upper Classes ! |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Janie Date: 22 Feb 07 - 11:35 PM Abby Sales on Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Janie Date: 22 Feb 07 - 11:40 PM Come to think of it--that is the only actual duel I know of. What are some other famous duels? Janie |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: CeltArctic Date: 23 Feb 07 - 12:25 AM The closest ballad I can think of is Little Musgrave. While in some versions, it does appear that the Lord, who has caught his wife in the act of cheating on him, reacts 'in the heat of passion', in most versions he at least has somewhat of a dialogue with Musgrave about the choice of weapons and the concept of an honourable fight (or duel) is touched on: "Get up, get up," Lord Donald cried, "Get up as quick as you can; It'll never be said in fair England I slew a naked man." "I can't get up, I won't get up, I can't get up for my life, For you have two long beaten swords, And me, not a pocket knife." "It's true, I have two beaten swords - They cost me deep in the purse, But you will take the better of them And I will take the worse. And you will strike the very first blow And strike it like a man, I will strike the very next blow And kill you if I can." and so on. Moira |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Scrump Date: 23 Feb 07 - 05:40 AM Matty Groves has similar verses to those from Little Musgrave posted above. And then there is this one: A holiday, a holiday, and all the people dozed Lord Ormsby's wife went into the town, but everything was closed She couldn't get no shopping done, and so she looked around And there she saw big Fatty Groves a-lying on the ground "Go home, go home, you Fatty Groves, you are a drunken lout; Go home, go home, you Fatty Groves, you shouldn't be let out." "Oh I can't go home, and I won't go home, and I can't go home for my life For the ring off my finger I have lost, I'll be murdered by me wife "Well if I am quite frank with you, your wife is not at home, For she is in my husband's bed, and she is not alone. So as I've nothing else to do - no really not a thing - I might as well come back with you and help you find the ring." A servant who was standing there, just why nobody knows, He swore his cronies they should know before the pub was closed. And when he come to the broad mill stream he did not see the plank And in his hurry to carry the news he fell on his belly and sank. Big Fatty and Lord Ormsby's wife they hunted high and wide, Till Fatty fell upon his bed and she fell by his side. Big Fatty Groves he got up to go and wash his face, When he returned Lady Ormsby's husband lay there in his place. Saying "Well, I like your feather bed and well, I like your sheets, And well, to be frank, I like your wife who lies in my arms asleep. "Stay there, stay there," said Fatty Groves, "I shall not rant and curse For you have got the better of me and I have got the worse." "Stout fellow," said Lady Ormsby's husband, "Taken like a man." But in then come Mrs. Fatty Groves and in amazement stands. Saying "How do you like my feather bed, and how do you like my sheet And how do you like my curtains that I got in the sale last week?" And then up spoke Mrs. Fatty Groves, never heard to speak so cheap, "You told me you didn't like your wife, and now with her you sleep. Lady Ormsby's husband he jumped up and ran right out the door, "I didn't know it was her", he cried, and was never seen no more. Fatty fainted clean away at the closeness of the call, The ladies picked him up, and they leant him against the wall. They leant him up against the wall, and that was a disaster, For Fatty weighed full twenty stone and the wall just lath and plaster. The wall gave way and Fatty fell, oh Fatty fell outside, And when he came to the broad pavement he fell on his head and he died. "A grave, a grave," the ladies cried "To bury Fatty in, But better you make it extra large, or you won't get him all in." "Now isn't that just typical," these ladies they did say, "The men can be relied upon to spoil a holiday." |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Leadfingers Date: 23 Feb 07 - 06:43 AM But of course there is always Abdul Abulbul Amir ! |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: GUEST,Terry McDonald Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:26 AM 'Young Alvin', on the Tim van Eyken CD seems to fit the bill, although I worry about a traditional song whose hero and heroine are called Alvin and Melanie. Tim learned it from Packie Byrne, though. |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:40 AM Ritual duels are mentioned in older German student songs ("Mensur, Contrahage") as an institution, but no special duel with the contrahents mentioned. Interested nevertheless? |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Jack Campin Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:47 AM There are a whole stack of songs relating to the duel between James Stuart and Sir Alexander Boswell in 1822. In fact the duel was largely *caused* by the songs, as Stuart issued the challenge after being libelled in both prose and verse by Boswell and his friends. I have them on my "Embro, Embro" cd-rom. But none of them were after-the-event narratives about the duel, though there is a tune which seems to have been written to congratulate Stuart on winning both the duel and the subsequent court case. |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Rapparee Date: 23 Feb 07 - 12:09 PM Yes, Wilfried, they might be of interest. |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: GUEST,Obie Date: 23 Feb 07 - 04:47 PM Stompin'Tom had a song called "Last Fatal Duel". |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Georgiansilver Date: 23 Feb 07 - 04:57 PM This one was by 'Dark Moor' Before The Duel I can't help thinking of tomorrow Now when I've still got all my full will To overcome my fear And makes me feel a real sorrow How my heart crazy is just I'll Beating foreseeing what is near Lor! I'll defend my honor My life is the price I must throw the dice Before tomorrow I feel the sorrow And in the mirror I watch the terror This is my night long and cruel Before the duel! Before tomorrow I have to write out My best lyric poem I have never made before And when I'm walking through the night about Inspiration comes to me To liberate my sore God! May not come tomorrow! If I have to die My poem's a goodbye Before tomorrow I feel the sorrow And in the mirror I watch the terror This is my night long and cruel Before the duel! Before tomorrow I feel the sorrow And in the mirror I watch the terror This is my night long and cruel Before the duel! I believe Johnny Hallyday did one at some point called 'Le Duel'...in French of course but can't think of any more. |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: alanabit Date: 24 Feb 07 - 02:42 AM I think that piece of doggerel could be laugh out loud funny if you sang it. Was it intended as a comedy song? |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 24 Feb 07 - 04:05 AM A duel is a ritualized form of fight; indispensable are nowadays the impartial and the seconds for the duelants. In former times it might have been a fight before witnesses. This is true for the song about Hildebrand and his famous fight with his son. The older version is a fragment only. It is in Old High German, but don't despair: you'll find a link to the New High German translation. The father tells his son who he is but the son doesn't believe it and the fight starts. Open end ... The younger version (click "direkt zum Jüngeren Hildebrandslied") has a happy end when at last the opponents know each other. The song must have been well known in the early 16th century because the tune was adapted for a hymn in the Lutheran songbook. |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Long Firm Freddie Date: 24 Feb 07 - 04:33 AM The Inuit take an enlightened approach to duelling, apparently: here Inuit song duels and laughter The Inuit hunter-gatherers of Siberia, Alaska, Baffinland and Greenland use singing, laughing and playing as a form of maintaining community relationships and dispute management. Most adult and children's games result in laughter at strategic times during the play and almost always at the end. Laughter can be used to express appreciation and fun, but it can also be used to express disapproval of inappropriate behaviour or to ridicule, and finally to exclude. Laughter and play are tools used to balance social relationships within a close-knit community that cannot afford to lose a member to violence because of the harsh environment that surrounds them (Beaudry 1988: 280; Boulding 1998: 8; Miller 2004:1). The Inuit traditionally arrange song duels to settle their disputes non-violently, as do many other cultural groups with oral traditions such as Celtic and Viking. A song is a learning tool, a form of entertainment, a means of creative and spiritual expression and influence and a form of public ridicule. Rachel Qitsualik (Nunatsiaq 2003: 3) says "Due to its social and psychological power, song can easily be welded by one human being as a weapon against another". "The idea was very simple: each contestant would have a turn at inventing a song (perhaps the Inuit equivalent of an evening at the improv) with lyrics that would humble, belittle, satirise, denigrate, revile, and generally humiliate the opponent" (Qitsualik 2003: 5). The two opponents were surrounded by a circle of community members in a common area who would formally judge the winner by the degree of laughter. Sources: Beaudry, N. 1988. Singing, Laughing and Playing: Three Examples from the Inuit, Dene and Yupik Traditions. Canadian Journal of Native Studies: 276-290. Boulding, E. 1998. Peace culture: the problem of managing human difference. Cross Currents. Winter: 8. Miller, J. R. 2004. Inuit: social organisation. Microsoft Corporation, Microsoft Encarta Online Encyclopaedia 2004:1. Qitsualik, R. 2003. Song (Parts 1, 2, 3). Nunatsiaq News. Iqaluit:1- 9. Reference for Songs and Dispute Management: Compiled by the Indigenous Facilitation and Mediation Project, Native Title Research Unit, Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies. 2004. Songs and Dispute Management. (Unpublished). |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Joe Offer Date: 24 Feb 07 - 05:36 AM The only one I can think of is Whiskey in the Jar:
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 27 Feb 07 - 07:53 AM But that's no duel but simple robbery |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Grab Date: 27 Feb 07 - 08:55 AM LFF, sounds very similar to rap duels. (See past posts from Azizi, and/or find a rap radio station.) Graham. |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: GUEST,Bardan Date: 27 Feb 07 - 09:09 AM There's a bit in The Lilly of the West, where it goes "I dragged him from my false love and boldly did bid him stand/but being mad with desperation I swore I'd pierce his breast". Sounds to me like a duel, especially the implication that he oughtn't have pierced your man's breast- a fight to first blood maybe? |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Big Al Whittle Date: 27 Feb 07 - 01:39 PM Christy Moore and Paul Downes -both used to do a version of Spanish Lady that had a verse in it about a dueller called Tiger Roche. |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Gulliver Date: 27 Feb 07 - 03:18 PM Spanish Lady As I went out by Dublin city At the hour of 12 at night Who should I meet but a Spanish lady Washing her feet by candlelight First she washed them, then she dried them All by the fire of amber coal In all my life I ne'er did see A maid so sweet about the sole CHORUS Whack for the too-ra loo-ra ladie } Whack for the too-ra loo-ra le } x2 Oh I asked her would she come out walking And we went on till the grey cocks crew A coach I stopped then to instate her We went on till the sky was blue Combs of amber in her hair And her eyes knew every spell In all my life I never did see A maid whom I could love so well Oh but when I came to where I found her And set her down from the halted coach Who was there with his arms folded But the fearful swordsman, Tiger Roche Blades were out, t'was thrust and cut And never the man gave me more fright Till I laid him out upon the floor Where she stood holding the candlelight Oh so if you go to Dublin city At the hour of 12 at night Beware of young girls who sit in their windows Washing their feet by candlelight I met one and we went walking I thought that she would be my wife When I came to where I found her If it wasn't for me sword I'd 'a lost me life Information here |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Big Al Whittle Date: 27 Feb 07 - 09:21 PM Very good Gulliver. I always thought those verses were a something of a weariness of the flesh - so I never learned them - sticking to the Johnstons version and verses However, all that background information puts the song in whole new light. Thank you - so glad tou made it away from the Lilliputians - I have dreams of a similar escape! |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Jack Campin Date: 05 Dec 19 - 05:54 PM I wonder if there are some good Lithuanian ones? Stratford, East London, 2019 |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Susan of DT Date: 06 Dec 19 - 07:48 AM From my book, Body Count: Death in the Child Ballads: In Child #207, Lord Delamere, the quarrel is an interesting one. A young lord proposes to the King that he should hang his peasants, rather than starve them to death with taxes. A French, or Dutch, knight offers to fight Delamere for his insolence. Since Delamere is under age, the Duke of Devonshire fights and kills the French night in his place42. The King wants to arrest Devonshire who insists he, unarmored, has killed the armored Frenchman fairly. . [Bodycount = 1] ‘It’s better, my liege, they should die a shorter death Than for your Majesty to starve them on earth.’ With that up starts a Dutch lord, as we hear, And he says, ‘Thou proud Jack,’ to my lord Delamere, (207B.5) ‘Thou ought to be stabbed,’ and he turned him about, ‘For affronting the king in the Parliament House.’ Then up got a brave duke, the Duke of Devonshire, Who said, I will fight for my lord Delamere. (207B.6) Devonshire dropped on his knee, and gave him his death-wound; O then that French lord fell dead upon the ground. (207A.8) In Child #99, Johnnie Scott, there is a duel towards the end of the ballad with Johnnie killing the king’s Italian champion and, thus, winning the princess as his bride. [Bodycount = 1] Then out it came that Italian, An a gurious ghost was he; Upo the point o Johney’s sword This Italian did die. (99A.31) Out has he drawn his lang, lang bran, Struck it across the plain: ‘Is there any more o your English dogs That you want to be slain?’ (99A.32) ‘A clark, a clark,’ the king then cried, ‘To write her tocher free;’ ‘A priest, a priest,’ says Love Johney, ‘To marry my love and me. (99A.33) In Child #61, Sir Cawline first wins a fight with King Eldrige on a fairy mound, a task set by his lady, the princess, and then kills a pagan giant (hend soldan), a task set by his king. He is rewarded with the princess’ hand in marriage. [Bodycount = 1 giant] But the hend soldan and Sir Cawline Th?e ffought a summers day; Now has hee slaine that hend soldan, And brought his fiue heads away. (61.37) In Child #262, Lord Livingston, the lady chooses which of a pair of rivals she prefers and marries him. The other challenges her husband to a duel and kills him. The lady mournes for seven years and then dies for love. [Bodycount = 2] ‘Come on to me now, Livingston, Or then take foot and flee; This is the day that we must try Who gains the victorie.’ (262A.23) Then they fought with sword in hand Till they were bluidy men; But on the point o Seaton’s sword Brave Livingston was slain. (262A.24) ‘My mother got it in a book, The first night I was born, I woud be wedded till a knight, And him slain on the morn. (262A.30) Bewick and Graham, in Child #211, were best friends and had no wish to fight, but their fathers quarreled over whose son was best and forced the fight. One father said his son was better because he could read and write. The father of the “inferior” son (Graham) told him he had to fight his friend or else fight him, his own father. Young Graham agonized over whether to fight, and chance killing, his father or his friend. He decided that killing his father would be worse than killing his friend, but swore that if he killed his friend, he would kill himself and so he did. [Bodycount = 2] ‘Now Grahame gave Bewick an ackward stroke, An ackward stroke surely struck he; He struck him now under the left breast, Then down to the ground as dead fell he. (211A.43) ‘O horse, O horse, O bully Grahame, And get thee far from me with speed! And get thee out of this country quite! That none may know who’s done the deed.’ (211A.46) ‘O if this be true, my bully dear, The words that thou dost tell to me, The vow I made, and the vow I’ll keep; I swear I’ll be the first that die. (211A.47) Then he stuck his sword in a moody-hill, Where he lap thirty good foot and three; First he bequeathed his soul to God, And upon his own sword-point lap he. (211A.48) The full ballads are in the DT and many other places. If you want my book: Amazon(US) says it is out of stock Loomis House Press (CAMSCO's publishing partner) has it or PM me |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Rapparee Date: 06 Dec 19 - 07:57 AM Thank you, Susan! I'll be ordering it ASAP! |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: David C. Carter Date: 06 Dec 19 - 08:40 AM There's "The Last Gunfughter Ballad":Guy Clark. |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: David C. Carter Date: 06 Dec 19 - 08:43 AM That should have been'Gunfighter'. I don't know what a 'Gunfughter' is!. Somebody may know. |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: GUEST,Julia L Date: 07 Dec 19 - 11:39 PM The ancient bards had verbal sparring sessions matching wits called "Flyting". these were taken very seriously in a time when one could be prosecuted for "murdering" someone's reputation through satire and libel Modern poet / singer Hamish Henderson has written a wonderful song called "The Flytin' o' Life and Daith" sung magnificently by Alison MacMorland on her album "Cloudberry Day" Discussion here https://mainlynorfolk.info/folk/songs/theflytingolifeanddaith.html Julia |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: GUEST,Jerry Date: 08 Dec 19 - 03:22 AM A Boy Named Sue, the Ballad of Jesse James, and metaphorically the Keys of Canterbury, all feature a duel as I recall. |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Mrrzy Date: 08 Dec 19 - 11:10 AM Don't recall a duel in Boy Named Sue, just a fight. Wasn't there a song about Burr? Somebody should write one... |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Mrrzy Date: 08 Dec 19 - 11:14 AM Jesse James has no duel either. |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Dave the Gnome Date: 08 Dec 19 - 11:43 AM Doesn't the chorus for "The Gallway Shawl" start with She wore no duels, nor costly diamonds I'll get my (dual purpose) coat... |
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Subject: Lyr Add: "Aaron Burr, what have you done?" From: Jim Dixon Date: 29 May 22 - 03:10 PM From The Knickerbocker, Vol. 31, No. 4, April, 1848, p. 375 [in a rambling column called “Editor’s Table”]: The death of eminent men used formerly to give rise to more ‘tributes’ in verse than are common now-a-days. Among the objurgatory poetry elicited by the wilful murder of General Alexander Hamilton by Colonel Aaron Burr, was the following: ‘Oh! Aaron Burr, what have you done? You've shot great General Hamilton; You got behind a bunch of thistles, And shot him dead with two hoss-pistils!’ There is a similar quote in: Holden's Dollar Magazine, Vol. 2, No. 2, August, 1848, p. 508-9. This is apparently just a short quip, recitation, or joke, not a song, but it has been quoted in several books with more or less the same words, and no additional verses. |
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Subject: RE: Songs About Duels and Dueling From: Stringsinger Date: 31 May 22 - 12:00 PM Carl Sandburg's Songbag contains the song "Abdul, the Bulbul Ameer", a battle between him and the Russian Ivan Slovinsky Skivar (if I have the name right). |
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