Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: pdq Date: 26 Feb 07 - 05:08 PM It would be interesting to know how Teofilo Stevenson would have rated as a professional. He won the Olympic gold medal as a heavyweight in 1972. George Foreman won it in 1968. Joe Frasier in 1964. That was a pretty good run, maybe three of the Top 10 all-time. |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: kendall Date: 26 Feb 07 - 05:00 PM The thing to keep in mind is the fact that on any given night, any heavyweight can knock out any other heavyweight. The problem is getting a clear shot at that "Sweet spot", and the pros guard that spot. |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: Peter Kasin Date: 26 Feb 07 - 04:05 PM Great list of 19th century champs, Rapaire, but how about Daniel Mendoza? He put some science into boxing. Today he would be considered a middleweight, but there were no weight class distincrions when he fought., so he did fight against those that would today be heavyweights. Tyson is on my list because in his prime, 1986-89, he was awesome. The manner in which he completely dominated his opponents puts him on there. He was way, way past his prime when he was knocked out by Lennox Lewis. When he fought Buster Douglas he was by that time under new management and trainers, and was, by all accounts, not well-managed. It's as if he had forgotten all the good training and technique that earlier mgmt taught him. I'm also a big fan of Marciano, but just want to note that the 1950's is generaly regarded as anything but the golden age of boxing. it was considered one of the less talent-laden decades. This is no rap on Marciano, though. Maybe he could've beaten Dempsey and others above him on my list, we'll never know. With my list, and anyone's top list, with such great boxers, who's to say that Foreman might not have creamed Marciano, or that Dempsey might not have gotten some early licks into Joe Louis that would have kayoed him, and on another night Louis done the same to Dempsey? There are so many variables, any list should be taken with a grain of salt. Sometimes there's the matter of one boxer's style being a weak point against some opponenrts, and a strong point against others. But I think lists are good for speculating based on different variables. We'll just never know for sure. I'm glad you all are responding and opening discussion on great boxers. Let's keep it going. Pound for pound, I'd put Roy Jones, Jr. somewhere up there, but probably Sugar Ray Robinson at the top. |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: GUEST,meself Date: 26 Feb 07 - 03:22 PM Ernest Hemingway. At least, he seemed to think he was right up there with the best of them. Of course, Morley Callaghan cleaned his clock pretty good. (And Joe Louis, stopping his fist an inch from Papa's nose, advised him, "Stick to writing"). |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: Jim Lad Date: 26 Feb 07 - 03:21 PM Casius Clay! |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: Rabbi-Sol Date: 26 Feb 07 - 03:15 PM What about Thomas Hearns who fought in every division from welterweight to light-heavyweight ? SOL |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: Blindlemonsteve Date: 26 Feb 07 - 03:13 PM i know this is a really silly one, but for me a true champion was Frank Bruno, when he won his title from Oliver McCall, he said that he never said he was the fastest, never said he was the best, but he believed in himself that one day he would win a title, he just kept going until he did, he had the heart of a champion if not the ability, and i think that is what is most important. And Lennox Lewis was a very lucky bunny not to get knocked out in the 7th by our Frank, and he seriously gave Tyson a first round kicking in theyre first match. |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: kendall Date: 26 Feb 07 - 02:53 PM Jack Johnson was called the best defensive fighter of all time. other weight divisions, Ray Robinson, often called the best pound for pound ever. Roberto Duran Willy Pep Billy Conn Ray Leonard Carmen Basillio |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: catspaw49 Date: 26 Feb 07 - 02:50 PM Try spelling his name right Sol....LOL....He ain't a dump in Jersey, his name is Patterson. Spaw |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: Rabbi-Sol Date: 26 Feb 07 - 02:42 PM I have a reel to reel tape recording that I made off the radio of the second Paterson-Johansen fight, in which Paterson regained his title. There were 6 or seven knockdowns in the space of 2 rounds. It was the first time ever that an ex heavyweight champ ever regained his title. I have been looking to sell this tape to a collector but have not yet found any takers. SOL |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: Deckman Date: 26 Feb 07 - 02:35 PM In his day, Harry Kid Matthews was a real power. I forget his weight division, perhaps middle weight or light heavy. Bob |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: alanabit Date: 26 Feb 07 - 01:31 PM For sheer skill, I think Sugar Ray Leonard would be on most people's list. He wasn't a bad puncher either. He belongs on another list with Sol's best "pound for pund" fighters though. Lennox Lewis's foolishnes, in failing to train properly for two of his bouts, meant that he lost his unbeaten record. However, when he finally retired, he had beaten every man, who had ever entered the ring with him. Both of his rematches were mismatches. He also improved as a finisher in the course of his career. I would have to look at footage of the fights to decide whether he or Larry Holmes had the better jab. It would take some figuring out even then. I would not fancy a clout round the ear from either of them. |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: Rabbi-Sol Date: 26 Feb 07 - 01:06 PM Considering ALL the weight division, not only heavyweight. Can we have a list of all the 10 best fighters pound for pound ? I am sure that Sugar Ray Robinson and Roberto Duran would rank pretty high. SOL ZELLER |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: Little Hawk Date: 26 Feb 07 - 01:04 PM I've always been a big fan of Marciano. For greatest of all time I would pick either him...or Ali in his prime. But it's not a very well informed opinion, because my knowledge of boxing is quite limited. |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: Schantieman Date: 26 Feb 07 - 12:34 PM Ali No-one else close. S |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: Rapparee Date: 26 Feb 07 - 12:29 PM Tom Spring Bill Richmond Tom Molyneaux Yankee Sullivan Tom Hyer John L. Sullivan Ben Caunt Tom Cribb Dustin Karol Lenny McLean Tom Sayers Roy Shaw William 'Bendigo' Thompson Kimbo Slice Put 'em in any order you want. |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: Scoville Date: 26 Feb 07 - 10:25 AM Has anyone else seen the PBS program on Jack Johnson? It's amazing. Fantastic old film footage. KUHT, our local PBS, is showing the second half tonight. I don't know anything about boxing, but I know I would not have wanted to be in the ring with that dude. Yikes. |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: Deckman Date: 26 Feb 07 - 10:06 AM I thought so ... but I wasn't sure. That probably was about 49 or 50? Bob |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: kendall Date: 26 Feb 07 - 09:49 AM Joe Louis, past his prime. |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: Deckman Date: 26 Feb 07 - 09:41 AM I well remember my Father and I listening to a radio broadcast of an Ezzard Charles fight. I can't remember his opponent, but I think he won the championship that night. Does anyone remember who he fought? Bob |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: kendall Date: 26 Feb 07 - 09:29 AM It depends on what you think is important Longevity, power, skill how mant good opponents, etc. For length of career, 1. Joe Louis almost 12 years 2. John L. Sullivan 10 years with bare fists. 2. Larry Holmes 7 years 3 Archie Moore more knockouts than any boxer in history. Skill: 1.M. Ali 2.Floyd Patterson 3Larry Holmes. best jab ever 4.Jimmy Young master boxer, taught Ali a thing or two. 5. Ezzard Charles 6. Lennox Lewis 7. Evander Holyfield I don't know where to put Jack Johnson, but he surely does belong on this list. |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: Deckman Date: 26 Feb 07 - 09:20 AM Let's trade brothers ... at least for a fun weekend! |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: Rapparee Date: 26 Feb 07 - 09:12 AM Hey, my brother did too! Now that he's old and weak I'd get my own licks in, but I'm old and weak now too. |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: Deckman Date: 26 Feb 07 - 09:04 AM I would add my brother to your list, but he never went "pro." He just pounded the bejeezus out of me whenever he could find me! Bob(deckman)Nelson |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: mandotim Date: 26 Feb 07 - 08:28 AM Because of politics, he never turned pro; but I wonder where Teofilio Stevenson would feature on that list if he had? This great Cuban amateur was the most devastating puncher I ever saw. Tim |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: GUEST,meself Date: 26 Feb 07 - 08:02 AM There are - or were - some clips of Jack Johnson fights on Youtube. Even on those old grainy newsreels you can see that he was a remarkable slugger. |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: alanabit Date: 26 Feb 07 - 07:53 AM We never saw Jack Johnson, but by all accounts he was pretty awesome. I think I shall have to go and look up his record. It is unlikely that enough information will emerge to compare him with later boxers, but we can be sure that he was one of the best ever. Larry Holmes certainly deserves to be on that list. I am a little baffled as to why Mike Tyson deserves to be on it, whereas Lennox Lewis, who thrashed him, does not. For sheer guts and mental strength, Evander Holyfield must have a good case too. |
Subject: RE: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: patriot1314 Date: 26 Feb 07 - 07:11 AM Wouldn't argue with the selection, maybe I would shuffle the order round a bit. I agree with the number one, but a man who retired undefeated is only 5th. not only undefeated, but in the "golden age" of boxing too |
Subject: BS: top all-time heavyweight boxers From: Peter Kasin Date: 26 Feb 07 - 04:57 AM This thread is inspired by the worst boxers thread, as that one has shown that there are more than a few Mudcat boxing fans. Speculating on who would have beaten who is the stuff of boxing fans, and, though we'll never really know for sure, it still makes for interesting discussion. So, what's your heavyweight ranking? Here's mine, for whatever it's worth. 1. Muhammad Ali 2. Joe Louis 3. Jack Johnson 4. Jack Dempsey 5. Rocky Marciano 6. Sonny Liston 7. Sam Langford 8. Jim Jeffries 9. George Foreman 10. Mike Tyson 11. Larry Holmes 12. Joe Frazier |