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BS: psychotherapy/counselling

autolycus 01 Mar 07 - 04:11 PM
GUEST, heric 01 Mar 07 - 04:14 PM
katlaughing 01 Mar 07 - 04:23 PM
bobad 01 Mar 07 - 04:27 PM
Ebbie 01 Mar 07 - 04:31 PM
Amos 01 Mar 07 - 04:33 PM
skipy 01 Mar 07 - 04:33 PM
Jean(eanjay) 01 Mar 07 - 04:37 PM
Captain Ginger 01 Mar 07 - 04:42 PM
GUEST,heric 01 Mar 07 - 04:42 PM
Bee 01 Mar 07 - 04:44 PM
Beer 01 Mar 07 - 04:48 PM
Jeri 01 Mar 07 - 04:50 PM
Bobert 01 Mar 07 - 05:14 PM
skipy 01 Mar 07 - 05:16 PM
Schantieman 01 Mar 07 - 05:21 PM
Hawker 01 Mar 07 - 05:31 PM
jacqui.c 01 Mar 07 - 05:33 PM
GUEST,Shimrod 01 Mar 07 - 05:39 PM
Helen 01 Mar 07 - 05:53 PM
dianavan 01 Mar 07 - 06:09 PM
Georgiansilver 01 Mar 07 - 06:22 PM
frogprince 01 Mar 07 - 06:58 PM
bobad 01 Mar 07 - 07:04 PM
Bill D 01 Mar 07 - 07:12 PM
GUEST,the doc 01 Mar 07 - 08:38 PM
Little Hawk 01 Mar 07 - 08:58 PM
mack/misophist 01 Mar 07 - 09:57 PM
Jim Lad 02 Mar 07 - 12:00 AM
Bagpuss 02 Mar 07 - 03:41 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 02 Mar 07 - 05:22 AM
Janie 02 Mar 07 - 06:21 AM
GUEST,Sparticus 02 Mar 07 - 06:30 AM
Fibula Mattock 02 Mar 07 - 10:57 AM
Andy Jackson 02 Mar 07 - 11:12 AM
Donuel 02 Mar 07 - 12:01 PM
Donuel 02 Mar 07 - 12:15 PM
autolycus 02 Mar 07 - 12:23 PM
Ebbie 02 Mar 07 - 02:35 PM
Donuel 02 Mar 07 - 02:45 PM
Fibula Mattock 02 Mar 07 - 02:51 PM
Fibula Mattock 02 Mar 07 - 02:51 PM
GUEST,lox 02 Mar 07 - 04:11 PM
redsnapper 02 Mar 07 - 05:51 PM
*daylia* 02 Mar 07 - 07:18 PM
autolycus 02 Mar 07 - 07:32 PM
Strollin' Johnny 03 Mar 07 - 03:28 AM
Liz the Squeak 03 Mar 07 - 04:05 AM
Black Beauty 03 Mar 07 - 05:27 AM
autolycus 03 Mar 07 - 05:32 AM

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Subject: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: autolycus
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:11 PM

I'd really appreciate it if you would set down your first thoughts when you see either of those words.






       Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:14 PM

I see a butterfly


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:23 PM

Someone who wants some help...or at least recognises they may need some help.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: bobad
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:27 PM

Treatment for ailments of the psyche.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:31 PM

heric jumps right into the Rorschach, saving time all around. I like that, although I'm not sure of the butterfly.

What do I think of when I sse those words? Pretty much what kat said. My guess, though, is that a person who is not TOO far off the beam could do the analysis and therapy themselves IF they have a professional to keep them on course.

I don't really know though. And of course, a great many of us don't seek help until our thought processes and our lives have gotten completely skewed.

All in all, I think it is a good thing, like any other tool.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Amos
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:33 PM

Ivor:

What are you seeking, here, actually? Your request seems very indirect and ambiguous.

Mine, most recently, was "Wow--what a difference in such a short time!".

A


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: skipy
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:33 PM

If you have memories of butterflies when you where young it does not mean that you are not a replicant!
Skipy


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:37 PM

My first thoughts when I see those words are "I've tried them and won't bother again".


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:42 PM

Horses for courses. Some swear by them, some find them useless. My own view is that they are like walking sticks - some people need them, others find they get in the way.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:42 PM

I think that's probable skip but you could also be a butterfly dreaming you are a man on the couch.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Bee
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:44 PM

First thing I think is: good thing if practitioner is sufficiently educated in the profession. There are far too many self-styled counsellors out there who practice out of their nether parts, and may do more harm than good. This is one field where I believe, as a general rule, that the more educated the better. I wouldn't let an EMT perform heart surgery on me, I won't let a social worker diagnose my psychiatric issues.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Beer
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:48 PM

Good Luck.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:50 PM

This is a subject that obviously makes some people extremely uncomfortable, which they express in various ways from trying to be funny to suspiscion. What't the worst thing that can happen to you if you just answer the guy's question?!

My first reaction word-association-wise for me was 'help'.
We used to live in more extended families and closer communities. There was a wise relative or community member who people talked to. Now, they pay someone who has paid a lot to be trained how to do it. Everybody needs a hand sometimes, and we don't all have a disinterested but trusted person around us to talk to.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 05:14 PM

Sex...


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: skipy
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 05:16 PM

Heric, maybe so, but that won't stop them trying to deactivate you!
Skipy


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Schantieman
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 05:21 PM

I found counselling useful at two difficult times in my life.   Some don't though.

S


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Hawker
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 05:31 PM

Counselling changed my daughter's life, and helped her through a really bad patch - she has 'mild' aspergers syndrome, and it helped her come to terms with her personality, and understand why others didnt understand her. I think they can be a positive thing, but often a painful one.
Cheers, Lucy


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: jacqui.c
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 05:33 PM

Useful tools in the right hands.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 05:39 PM

I've tried everything: Reiki massage, Homeopathy, Yoga, Psychotherapeutic Counselling ... and that thing with needles ...(?)







Acupuncture?








No, heroin ...


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Helen
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 05:53 PM

I have seen counsellors at four different times of my life, from late teenage to only about a year ago when I was told I was losing my job. The reasons over the years were mostly for issues relating to work.

I see good counsellors as good listeners who can help to unravel a problem, or often a set of entangled problems, help me to discover why I am in this situation, and importantly for me, help me to work out strategies for working through the problems to solutions. The good ones seem to be good at listening and asking pertinent questions. I have never heard one of them tell me what I "should" do. They have let me work out my own strategies but guided me towards better understanding of my own and other people's behaviour.

As Amos said - "what a difference in such a short time!". I've been to one counsellor who didn't know specifically about the situation I was in, i.e. I was being bullied at work by a very manipulative and nasty person, so I found it frustrating trying to talk to that counsellor, but she still provided a caring opportunity to talk about my problem.

I have never been to a psychiatrist, and psychiatry seems to be more about mental illness including prescribing medicines to try to correct or deal with the disease. A general practice doctor I was singularly unimpressed with tried to manipulate me into going to a psychiatrist, at the time that I was being bullied, by telling me that she (the psychiatrist) was a "counsellor, but she has a medical degree". No thanks!

I think that some people resist seeking help from counsellors, but if you can find a good counsellor the process can be very effective in a surprisingly short time. On the other hand, I have met some psychologists and/or counsellors who I wouldn't entrust my dog with.

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: dianavan
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 06:09 PM

a chance to vent


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 06:22 PM

A good counsellor is one who listens, paraphrases, sympathises, empathises and helps the counsellee to solve their own problem without giving advice.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: frogprince
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 06:58 PM

I spent some fairly extensive time in counselling, and my only regret was that I didn't get to it earlier in life. I wasn't transformed into one of lifes' big "winners" by the experience, but I made big steps toward healthy self-respect, and left a good measure of tensions behind. One small specific thing: I had been prone to quite a few really horrific nightmares. I went home from a session one night, had the most beautiful dream of my life, and since then (30 years) I've had one single real nightmare, under very stressful conditions.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: bobad
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 07:04 PM

One way of getting to know yourself, there are other ways, you just have to find them.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 07:12 PM

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: GUEST,the doc
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 08:38 PM

I think America.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 08:58 PM

My first reaction is a slightly negative one (based on past personal experience). This is followed by some further thought in which I acknowlege that there are some good spychotherapists and counsellors out there who will help you...as well as some who will waste a lot of your time and money and misdirect you and try to shove drugs down your throat. It's a mixed picture, in other words.

I then begin thinking about the fact that the more complex and decadent a society gets, the more it seems to employ such people...but that's not surprising.

I then think about how damned expensive they are.

Does that help?


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: mack/misophist
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 09:57 PM

An academic psychologist of my acquaintance tells me that 'cognitive therapy' has the best track record. Since he's cautious about therapists in general, I'll go with that.

My own experience has been that they'll lie at the drop of a hat. "For your own good."


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Jim Lad
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 12:00 AM

An effective way to turn a couch into a springboard.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Bagpuss
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 03:41 AM

If you are planning on having some, read up on the type of pschotherapy practiced and see if it the sort of thing you are looking for. Someone who wants to look for repressed childhood causes for their misery will be very disappointed by cognitive therapy. I think though CBT is usually thought of as the most effective, a lot comes down to the skill of the therapist regardless of which tradition they are coming from.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 05:22 AM

It used to be said that, "them that can do ... them that can't, teach". I am sure that this is unfair to modern teachers, who do a difficult job under difficult circumstances.

A contemporary update on the above phrase might be, "them that can do ... them that can't, set themselves up as 'alternative therapists'". I wouldn't touch people with the proverbial 'barge pole'!

Therapy administered by trained professionals is a different matter.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Janie
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 06:21 AM

As a gross generalization, I think of psychotherapy as a process of increasing self-awareness, of bringing into full consciousness the intrapsychic factors and elements that inform the choices people make so that they can make more informed choices about their lives and themselves-such that they are better able to respond to what life brings rather than somewhat blindly react to what life brings.

I think of counseling as more confined to education and the teaching of problem-solving skills, and as much more directive than psychotherapy.

There is not a strict distinction between psychotherapy and counseling, and some of both probably occurs in most counseling or psychotherapy, except when the therapist is prone to adher to a very strict psychodynamic therapeutic modality.

Bagpuss, cognitive therapy may, in fact, address repressed childhood issues because one often will need to identify the basis for mistaken or ineffective beliefs about themselves and the world before they can be open to the idea of exchanging them for more functional beliefs.


Janie

Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: GUEST,Sparticus
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 06:30 AM

If you try either you need your head examined!


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 10:57 AM

1) tried counselling. Not a success. Doesn't work if you're manic (and therefore unreceptive to talking things over). It's a pour-your-heart-out thing, is counselling. That's my experience. The counsellors were student and then workplace counsellors.

2) currently undergoing therapy. Am on the NHS waiting list for CBT - waited 5 months for an assessment, now have to wait another 4-6 months for the CBT to start. Not exactly happening as and when it's needed. In the meantime I am seeing a crisis intervention service for therapy in a slim attempt to hold on to key things like careers and relationships and er, life. So far, so good, even if all I've experienced is someone with a German accent saying "tell me about your childhood" (ah, the cliché). Seems promising - I've been told that the therapist builds a picture of you and then explores what's causing stress.

3) I also have a psychiatrist (because of bipolar/manic depression) but he deals with medication issues and outpatient check-ups. He does the therapy referral.

4) don't normally post to BS threads anymore but if it's mental health related I do my damndest to talk about it because I hate to see stigma about mental health, hence the long and rambling post. Cheers.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 11:12 AM

Love, Hope, and Help in that order.
A.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 12:01 PM

What 3 words do you see in Hypnotherapist?


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 12:15 PM

I bet we would have never seen a single Woody Allen movie if it hadn't been for counseling.
IT sure seems to support productivity among artists and writers.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: autolycus
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 12:23 PM

I'm very grateful for your replies so far,and I'm a little taken aback and pleased at the large number of positive experiences people have talked about.

   Yes my opener was indirect. As a therapist,my job is not to tell people what to think,and that tendency spills over. [I haven't spotted the ambiguity.]

   What you've written has,as usual,clarified my thoughts,so thanks for that.

   The views of those who have counselling/therapy experience is very interesting.


   I can see i was, and am, especially interested in the first responses of those who have no such experience. And I still am.

   Personally,I can't remember what I thought about them before my late 20s when i first started doing 'groups' - I don't think they even got on my dial.






       Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 02:35 PM

Fibula, according to an email I got recently, 1 in 4 people is mentally ill- so take a look at three of your friends. If they are OK, you are it.

More truth than poetry to that message, I think. I have a bi-polar friend and life, itself, is very stressful for him. Why is it that so many bi-polar people are so bright? It seems to me that a little selective 'dimness' could be an easier way to go. He is aware of what happens to him but in the midst of an episode that knowledge doesn't really help.

The best of luck to you and to us all.

Eb


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 02:45 PM

I was an alternative therapist/hypnotherapist for 13 years.
I am glad I did it.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 02:51 PM

Hi Ebbie,
Well, I have a really good friend who is also bipolar, so statistically I can say I have at least 8 friends, which is nice :)

The therapist I spoke to today was talking about the danger of labels - I think perhaps a warning not to pigeonhole ourselves as being certain things (perhaps Ivor can expand on that). Me, I'm personally a little glad of labels. When I looked through the list of symptoms and said "yup" to every single one of them it was like I'd finally discovered I wasn't the freak I thought I was - there was an identifiable diagnosis for what was wrong.

But yes, good luck to us all. The world can be a pretty rough place, and it's nice to know there's help out there, however dark it seems at times.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 02:51 PM

(Seven friends. I can't count.)


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 04:11 PM

Labia


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: redsnapper
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 05:51 PM

I have had a total of six years psychotherapy with a very-well qualified, experienced and open-minded (with regard to methodologies) psychiatrist for bouts of depression spread over the past 16 years.

For me it has been a very positive and helpful experience but, as has been said before in this thread, it doesn't work for everyone.

The situation in the UK national health system is generally woeful in regard to mental health, which is a scandal considering the number of people afflicted by depression.

RS


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: *daylia*
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 07:18 PM

Sux to be us.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: autolycus
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 07:32 PM

The kind of therapy I do is Gestalt. Gestalt is a German word meaning,v.v.roughly 'pattern' or 'form'.

    The point is that we all make gestalts all the time,that is,we shape our experience,however incomplete the data,cos we want to make sense of our experience. 'Labelling' does the same job with a name. A problem with labelling is that a word can be a replacement for actual,lived experience. Labelling can also involve jumping to (the wrong) conclusion.

    And from my therapy experience,labels really are not the point. the point - no - a point,is what is the experience,how are you experiencing,what is happening? etc. etc.

    And talking of realising,"Wow,I'm not a freak!",that was a revelation for me when I started going to groups. Someone would talk about a problem,quite in a spirit of 'I'm alone with this.' Then Another would say words to the effect of "Me too",to mutual amazement.

   I think people usually start this kind of work thinking they are the only one with their problem(s)






       Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 03:28 AM

Americans who've found another way to get your money.


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 04:05 AM

Had a bit of both as a child and as an adult.

As a child, it was because I'd declined the invitation to do schoolwork. The psychiatarist was a wizened old woman who seemed to have nothing in common with the human race, let alone her mainly adolescent patients. She sat on a chair that was higher than mine, she refused to meet my eyes, choosing to look downwards or sideways at me and told me I was a bright young girl with a good future ahead of me and why didn't I do my work? What she didn't know was that after the death of my brother and my sister joining the army, my parents had decreed that I would be the one who stayed at home to look after them - my life was planned for me, why bother to make it better? There was one session where we sat in absolute silence for an hour, my only comment being 'your calendar is out of date' as I left. I thought if I told her what was really wrong, she'd just turn round and tell my parents, which would be fatal for me. I don't feel we resolved anything as at 14, with a disabled mother and a violent father, I wasn't mentally mature or independant enough to realise I could make a change. That came later.

Subsequently, other suggestions of psychiatric help have been greeted with very mixed feelings. On the one hand, I feel it to be a complete waste of time (and money!) but then I think, they can't all be as bad as my first experience.

Counselling is another kettle of weasels. It seems that almost anyone can set up as a counsellor or consultant with no formal qualifications at all - at work in the Tax office I see their companies come and go with alacrity and usually an investigation.

I've used counsellors in my adult life for several reasons, sometimes an intermediary is an absolute necessity - friends and relatives are too close to be objective. My experience with them is that the advice they give can be good, but it's nigh impossible to do anything about it without causing more pain and upset to everyone, just to make you feel a bit better.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: Black Beauty
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 05:27 AM

This is my profession you are talking about here.

Love
Charlotte


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Subject: RE: BS: psychotherapy/counselling
From: autolycus
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 05:32 AM

I'm still interested in the views of those who haven't done any,even those who wouldn't touch it with a barge-pole.I'm wondering what they imagine it's about.

   Some of the posts have been very open and honest,and fair,and wise. To all posters so far,and I do mean 'all',may I thank you. Oh,why not,and to future posters,too.

   


   To a degree,agreed about looking into the subject to seek something appropriate,tho' people's unconscious sometimes does the job.


   i don't think it's the case that the therapy that does the work. If the client doesn't,then nothing will work. Lots do approach therapists/counsellors in the same spirit as when going to the doctor,i.e.'I'll tell you my problem;you fix it.' Bit of a mistake,tho' quite understandable.

It is an act of great bravery to go to a practitioner,one reason so many avoid it. In our technology/science/objectivity/observing culture,the self is a bit the last frontier. If not subject non grata. THE self - yes,fine;MYSELF? - I dawn't fink saw.

   The stuff about money is an interesting one. Personally,I'm amazed at how much people are prepared to spend on houses,clothes,technology,holidays,cars,hair etc.etc. And of course lots of people clearly have a lot of unexamined worries,problems,history and attitudes about money. Interesting what people value.






       Ivor


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