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Origins: This Old Time Religion (Spiritual/Gospel)

DigiTrad:
OLD TIME RELIGION
OLD TIME RELIGION (2)
OLD TIME RELIGION (3)
OLD TIME RELIGION (4)
OLD TIME RELIGION (6)
THIS OLD TIME RELIGION (5)


Related threads:
Lyr Req: Old Time Nutrition (Lorre Wyatt) (17)
Textual History of Old Time Religion (13)
(origins) Origins: 'Give Me That Old Time Religion' Parody (13)
Lyr Req: 'Old Time Religion' parodies (14)


Q (Frank Staplin) 01 Mar 07 - 09:41 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 01 Mar 07 - 09:43 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 01 Mar 07 - 09:45 PM
Goose Gander 02 Mar 07 - 11:26 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 Mar 07 - 01:36 PM
Goose Gander 02 Mar 07 - 01:59 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 Mar 07 - 02:31 PM
My guru always said 02 Mar 07 - 03:09 PM
Leadfingers 02 Mar 07 - 06:57 PM
Goose Gander 02 Mar 07 - 10:35 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 03 Mar 07 - 03:44 PM
Bill D 04 Mar 07 - 03:31 PM
GUEST,Jim the Filker 04 Mar 07 - 05:10 PM
vectis 04 Mar 07 - 07:02 PM
Snuffy 06 Mar 07 - 08:09 AM
GUEST,vectis at work 06 Mar 07 - 10:36 AM
GUEST,me again 06 Mar 07 - 10:36 AM
Goose Gander 14 Mar 07 - 04:10 PM
Azizi 14 Mar 07 - 05:28 PM
Goose Gander 14 Mar 07 - 05:32 PM
Azizi 14 Mar 07 - 05:36 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 24 Oct 08 - 06:05 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 24 Oct 08 - 09:24 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 25 Oct 08 - 02:00 PM
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Subject: Lyr Add: Old Time Religion (Old Gospel)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 09:41 PM

Lyr. Add: OLD TIME RELIGION
^^ Arr. Charles Davis Tillman

Refrain:
'Tis the old time religion, (3x)
And it's good enough for me.
2.
It was good for our mothers. (3x)
And it's good enough for me.
3.
Makes me love everybody. (3x)
And it's good enough for me.
4.
It has saved our fathers. (3x)
And it's good enough for me.
5.
It will do when I am dying. (3x)
And it's good enough for me.
6.
It will take us all to heaven (3x)
And it's good enough for me.

Heard by Charles Tillman (1861-1943) at an 1889 Black camp meeting in Lexington, SC, titled "My Old Time Religion." Tillman arranged and published it with other gospel songs in one of his Songbooks, 1891. He published 20 songbooks, all very rare. For a time he was song leader at the Indian Springs Holiness Camp Meeting at Flovilla, Georgia (still held yearly).
The lyrics above are from Cyberhymnal; I have not seen the Songbook and am not sure that these are the words he published.

The origin and date of composition of this gospel song are unknown. The song is generally presumed to be African-American, the evidence for this being first publication in Marsh, "The Story of the Jubilee Singers; with Their Songs," c. 1880. Their version is given in the text following the Tillman version.


http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/o/l/oldtimer.htm

Lyr. Add: THIS OLD TIME RELIGION
^^ Version by the Jubilee Singers, c. 1880

Refrain (sung after each verse):
Oh! this old time religion,
This old time religion,
This old time religion,
It is good enough for me.
1.
It is good for** the mourner,
It is good for the mourner,
It is good for the mourner,
It is good enough for me.
2.
It will carry you home to heaven,
It will carry you home to heaven,
It will carry you home to heaven,
It is good enough for me.
3.
It brought me out of bondage* (3x)
It is good enough for me.
4.
It is good when you are in trouble, etc.

No. 36, with score, p. 158, J. B. T. Marsh, 1880's, "The Story of the Jubilee Singers; with Their Songs," Revised edition (seventy-fifth thousand), Houghton, Mifflin and Company, Boston.
*Verse post-Emancipation. **Sheet music shows a marked pause before the last three syllables.

The song in my opinion is old gospel, although often called a 'spiritual.'
Previous threads at Mudcat, and the three versions in the DT, are parody.

An entry at pdmusic gives a date of 1865; source not given, probably an error or opinion. It would not be surprising to find that the song appeared soon after the Civil War; camp meetings were flowering again. The well-known Des Plaines Camp Meeting in Illinois began in the early 1860's as did others.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Time Religion (Old Gospel)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 09:43 PM

Whoops! Dunno why the link color.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Time Religion (Old Gospel)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 09:45 PM

Yes I do, I forgot to close a link.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Time Religion (Old Gospel)
From: Goose Gander
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 11:26 AM

From the Ballad Index . . .

That Old Time Religion

DESCRIPTION: "Give me that (or: It's the/that) old time religion (x3), And it's good enough for me." Verses describe those for whom it was good enough: "It was good for Paul and Silas" "It was good for the Hebrew children," "It was good for my dear parents," etc.
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1872 ("Jubilee Songs as sung by the Fisk Jubilee Singers")
KEYWORDS: religious nonballad
FOUND IN: US(SE,So)
REFERENCES (5 citations):
BrownIII 640, "That Old-Time Religion" (1 text)
Chappell-FSRA 91, "The Old Time Religion" (1 short text, 1 tune)
Randolph 628, "The Old Time Religion" (1 text, 1 tune)
Randolph/Cohen, pp. 438-440, "The Old-Time Religion" (1 text, 1 tune -- Randolph's 628)
Silber-FSWB, p. 362, "Give Me That Old Time Religion" (1 text)

Roud #6423
RECORDINGS:
The Blue Chips, "Give Me That Old Time Religion" (ARC 6-07-60, 1936)
Brother Son Bonds, "Give Me That Old Time Religion" (Decca 7024, 1934)
Emmett Brand, "Give Me That Old Time Religion" (on MuSouth06)
Morris Brown Quartet, "That Old Time Religion" (Bluebird B-8428/Montgomery Ward M-8765, 1940)
Columbia [Male] Quartet, "The Old-Time Religion" (Columbia A-827, 1910; rec. 1909)
Cotton Belt Quartet, "Give Me That Old Time Religion" (Vocalion 1022, 1926)
Cotton Top Mountain Sanctified Singers, "Give Me That Old Time Religion" (Brunswick 7100, 1929)
Dixie Jubilee Singers, "Give Me That Old Time Religion" (Banner 7237/Domino 4220/Challenge 937 [as Jewel Male Quartet], 1928)
Wally Fowler, "Old Time Religion" (Capitol 2182, 1952)
Golden Eagle Gospel Singers, "Gimme That Old Time Religion" (Decca 7314, 1937)
Hampton Institute Quartet, "Ole Time Religion" (Musicraft 233, 1939)
Haydn Quartette, "The Old Time Religion" (Victor 4656, 1906)
Heavenly Gospel Singers, "Old Time Religion" (Bluebird B-8077, 1939; Montgomery Ward M-7871, n.d.)
Jubliee Quartet, "Old Time Religion" (Banner 1550/Regal 9848, 1925; Ajax 31582, n.d.)
Mellowmen, "That Old Time Religion" (Decca 28081, 1952)
Old Southern Sacred Singers, "The Old Time Religion" (Brunswick 161, 1927)
Old-Time Jubilee Singers, "That Old Time Religion" (Perfect 113/Ajax [Can.] 17041, 1924)
Original Valentine Quartet, "Give That Old Time Religion" (OKeh 8135, 1924)
Pace Jubilee Singers, "Old-Time Religion" (Victor 22097, 1929; Bluebird B-5811, 1935; rec. 1928)
Paramount Jubilee Singers, "That Old Time Religion" (Paramount 12073, rec. 1923)
Homer Rodeheaver, "Old Time Religion" (Columbia A-3856, 1923)
Ernest Thompson, "The Old Time Religion" (Columbia 15007-D, 1924)
Tuskegee Institute Quartet, "Old Time Religion" (Victor 18075, 1916; rec. 1915)
Tuskegee Quartet, "The Old Time Religion" (Victor 20519, 1927)
Congregation of Wesley Methodist Church, "Give Me That Old Time Religion" (on JohnsIsland1)

SAME TUNE:
Old Time Religion [parody] (DT, OLTIMREL, OLTIMR2, OLTIMR3; on PeteSeeger47)
Notes: This piece was copyrighted in 1891 by Charlie D. Tillman -- but given that the text sung by the Fisk Jubilee Singers was printed in 1880, the claim is obviously bogus.
This seems, for all intents and purposes, to have become a parody of itself of late. All three Digital Tradition versions, for instance, are modern versions praising various improbable deities (I suspect that most of the verses are filk). It's not really surprising, given the excellent tune and the asinine lyrics of the original. - RBW
File: R628

Go to the Ballad Search form
Go to the Ballad Index Instructions
Go to the Bibiography
Go to the Discography

The Ballad Index Copyright 2007 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Time Religion (Old Gospel)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 01:36 PM

Thanks for adding the write-up from the Ballad Index.

I presume 1872 is the date meant for the reference to the Fisk Jubilee Singers. So far, 1880 (Marsh, "The Story of the Jubilee Singers") is the earliest reference I can find. In that publication, Marsh added 'a large number' of new songs; I don't have the volumes of G. D. Pike, and don't know their content.

The remark in the Index about Tillman's 'bogus claim' is incorrect. Tillman acknowledged his source as the Black camp meeting in SC, and included the song in one of his Songsters (1891). Any publication made to be sold is subject to copyright (just as the volumes of the Journal of the Folk-Lore Society, etc., are copyright).

Tillman biography from the New Georgia Encyclopedia: Tillman

I am making invocations to whatever clones may be to fix my post- I am even considering the supreme offering of a chili dog.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Time Religion (Old Gospel)
From: Goose Gander
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 01:59 PM

I think I have this at least once or twice (or more) in some early 20th century hymnals, so I'll look those up when I get home.

If I remember correctly, this song was sung in the opening scenes of Inherit the Wind, but with the intention of making the small-town folk seem smalltown-ish and ignorant. Which unfortunately is the impression many 'educated fellers' have of this sort of music.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Time Religion (Old Gospel)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 02:31 PM

I tried checking some old hymnals as well, but people who went to the 'better' churches regarded camp meeting songs as the province of holy-rollers and the like.
Not in "The Golden Sheaf," 1902.

I would like to see H. D. Pinney, 1863, "The Melodies of Zion;" Berry and Black (Eds.), 1895, "Songs of the Soul for Use in Sunday Evening Congregations, Revivals, Camp-Meetings, Social Services and Young People's Meetings;" C. A. Gage, 1909, Songs for the Jubilee" (Des Plaines Camp Meeting of 1860 (a Woodstock of its time) and its followers- has 103 hymns); and other similar works of the period 1850-1910. Most are scarce and expensive but a very few have been reprinted.
Andrews, W. L., ed., 1986, "Sisters of the Spirit," which covers some of the Black female gospel singers of the period 1830-1880, is an important work on these little-known early Black gospelers.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Time Religion (Old Gospel)
From: My guru always said
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 03:09 PM

Seeing this thread immediately brought to mind the most wonderful performance of it, sung by Den Giddens (South-East UK) with several lovely Ladies (including our own Vectis) behind him doing synchronised hand-clapping and other gestures. Assuredly this song belongs in a Religious setting, but Den performing this at a Song and Ale or Folk Club, with his glamorous cohorts, is the most wonderful experience!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Time Religion (Old Gospel)
From: Leadfingers
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 06:57 PM

But it IS nice to see the 'proper' words posted to go along with the three parody versions in the D T .


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Time Religion (Old Gospel)
From: Goose Gander
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 10:35 PM

OLD TIME RELIGION
^^
'Tis the old time religion, it's good enough for me
It was good for our mothers, it's good enough for me

Makes me love everybody.

It has saved our fathers.

It was good for the Prophet Daniel.

It was good for the Hebrew children.

It was tried in the fiery furnace.

It was good for Paul and Silas.

It will do when I am dying.

It can take us all to heaven.

Source:
Robert Coleman, Revival Songs: Shaped Note Edition (Dallas, Texas: Robert H. Coleman, 1929) No. 125

"Revival Songs: Containing the Cream of The Popular Gospel Songs and Standard Church Hymns in Use Today; Also a Goodly Number of the Choicest New Songs by the World's Best Song Writers; For Evangelistic Services and All Church Worship; Edited and Compiled by Robert H. Coleman."

Coleman cited no author or previous source for the version he printed.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Time Religion (Old Gospel)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 03:44 PM

Songs of Zion, Cleveland and Nix, editors, Abington Press, Nashville, 1981, p. 89-90, score with optional base part by T. Jefferson Cleveland.
^^
OLE-TIME RELIGION

Gimme dat ole time religion, (3x)
It's good enough for me.

It was good for my ole father,...
It was good for my ole mother, ...
It was good for Paul and Silas, ...
Makes me love ev'rybody, ...
It is good when I'm in trouble, ...
It will do when I am dying, ...
It will take us all to heaven, ...

The same verses in the same order, and the same title, are found with the score in R. Nathaniel Dett, 1927, "Religious Folk-Songs of the Negro as sung at Hampton Institute," p. 200. "Transcribed by the editor from the singing of the Hampton students led by Paige I. Lancaster. The score includes a 'Chorus of basses.'


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Time Religion (Old Gospel)
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 03:31 PM

(song also made immortal by the amazing parodies done to it)...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Time Religion (Old Gospel)
From: GUEST,Jim the Filker
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 05:10 PM

Here's a collection of parody verses ("Real Old Time Religion"):

Real Old Time Religion lyrics

At a filksing, the singing of ROTR can last hours, so the order is usually given: "songbooks closed!" Only verses in memory may be sung.

The first time I heard it, I fell off my chair laughing.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Time Religion (Old Gospel)
From: vectis
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 07:02 PM

Them sure ain't the verses Den Giddens sings.
An I bet other singers don't have a line of dancing girls behind them either...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Time Religion (Old Gospel)
From: Snuffy
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 08:09 AM

But they're good enough for me, Mary


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Time Religion (Old Gospel)
From: GUEST,vectis at work
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:36 AM


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Time Religion (Old Gospel)
From: GUEST,me again
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:36 AM

UGH!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Time Religion (Old Gospel)
From: Goose Gander
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 04:10 PM

Tattlers Wagon as sung by Mr. Ed Stilley, Eureka Springs, Arkansas on May 1, 1958 from the Max Hunter collection has some verses from Old Time Religion, poking fun at holier-than-thou, gossiping hypocrites . . .

Well, I was going thru and tattling as I went
But going thru like that, you know
It isn't worth a cent
I'd talk about my neighbors
They'd give me tattle too
And then we'd go to church an' sing
T'is the old time religion
T'is the old time religion
It's good enough for me
(VERSE 2)

We'd back our wagons up
And get another load
And just as soon as we could go
We'd start on tattlers road
And when we met a passerby
We'd stop and fret and spew
Then dump some poison out and sing
Makes me love everybody
Makes me love everybody
Makes me love everybody
It's good enough for me
(VERSE 5)

Tattlers Wagon also pulls in verses from other hymns: Sweet By and By, When We All Get to Heaven, I'm Going Through, and I Believe Jesus Saves


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Subject: Lyr Add: The Old Time Religion (All Over Me}
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 05:28 PM

Here's a link to a YouTube video of a 1960s group called the Violinaires singing "It's That Old Time Religion" {Got It All Over Me".

Violinaires - Old Time Religion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UzNAbXiaNQ

Added February 28, 2007; From ArchieB9876

-snip-

The words & tune for this gospel song are very different from
"Give Me That Old Time Religion". "It's That Old Time Religion" {Got It All Over Me" has a call & response pattern. The tune is jazzy/uptempo. The vocalist have a band backing them up. Members of the singing group {as well as the audience} clap their hands and stomp their feet as additional accompaniment for the singing.

Btw, the group's look {they're wearing cream colored suits with black ties} and their choreography remind me of male 1960s R&B groups like the Temptations & The Four Tops.

Here's an admittedy incomplete transcription of the words that I heard in the video clip:

THE OLD TIME RELIGION
Soloist-Lord, I got it in my feet
Group- Got it in my feet
Soloist-Got it in my leg
Group- Got it in my knee
Group-Got it in my knee
Soloist- I got it all over me
Group-All over me
Soloist-It's in my walk
Group-It's in my walk
Soloist-It's in my talk
Group-It's in my talk
Soloist-It's that old time religion
Group-that old time religion
Soloist-I got it all over me
Group-All over me


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Time Religion (Old Gospel)
From: Goose Gander
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 05:32 PM

"Religion has to have movement, for you to get the spirit."

Someone said that (or something like that), but I don't remember who it was.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Time Religion (Old Gospel)
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 05:36 PM

Sorry- of course when the soloist sings Got it in my leg, the group responds "got it in my leg".

Here's another part of that gospel song:

Soloist-I got it in my walk
Group-Got it in my walk
Soloist-I got it in my move
Group- Whooo! [sung as the step back from the microphone in a doo-wop like style]
Soloist-It's that old time religion
Group-It's that old time religion
Soloist-I got it all over me.
Group-Me, Me, Me


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Subject: Lyr Add: This Old Time Religion (Spiritual)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 06:05 PM

Lyr. Add: THIS OLD TIME RELIGION
Fisk Jubilee Singers, 1880

Chorus:
Oh! this old time religion,
This old time religion,
This old time religion,
It is good enough for me.

1
It is good for the mourner,
It is good for the mourner,
It is good for the mourner,
It is good enough for me.
2
It will carry you home to heaven,
It will carry you home to heaven,
It will carry you home to heaven,
It is good enough for me.
3
It brought me out of bondage,
It brought me out of bondage,
It brought me out of bondage,
It is good enough for me.
4
It is good when you are in trouble,
It is good when you are in trouble,
It is good when you are in trouble,
It is good enough for me.

No. 36, p. 158, with musical score; J. B. T. Marsh, 1880, "The Story of the Jubilee Singers: with Their Songs." Houghton, Mifflin and Company. Revised edition.

This early spiritual, sung by the Fisk Jubilee Singers in 1870s-1880s, is not yet in the Spirituals Permathread except as a chorus in a thread on Brush Arbor meetings.
Title varies; Old Time Religion, Give Me that Old Time Religion, and This Old Time Religion.
Several parodies are in Mudcat threads and the DT.

Spirituals Permathread 38686: Spirituals Permathread


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: This Old Time Religion (Spiritual)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 09:24 PM

GIVE ME THE OLD-TIME RELIGION New vers.
Copyright Homer A. Rodeheaver

Chorus:
Give me the old-time religion, (3x)
It's good enough for me.

1
None of these new-fangled isms, (3x)
White folks talk so much about.
2*
Darwin's evolution isms, (3x)
You can't find them in god's word.
3
Never mind whar you come from, (3x)
But look out where you's a-gwine.
4
In the beginning God created, (3x)
Spoke the word and it was done.
5
I .... want the same old Bible, (3x)
That our fathers loved so well.

"*For the second verse these words may be substituted:
Darwin's evolution monkeys, (3x)
Ain't no kin to me, nor mine."

This amusing revision appeared as No. 3, "Give Me the Old-Time Religion," New Version, copyright 1923, Homer Alvan Rodeheaver, arr. J. B. Herbert, with score, from "Rodeheaver's Negro Spirituals, nd, The Rodeheaver Company, Chicago.

Rodeheaver was a white gospel composer and publisher, often a companion to Billy Sunday. In his publications, he made changes to many gospel songs and claimed copyright, "International copyright secured." The cover of "Negro Spirituals has introductory text:
"A Work of Real Value"
"During the past few years a widespread interest has developed in the plaintive, weird, original melodies through which the negroes of the South express their spiritual emotions. Mr. Homer Rodeheaver has made a lifelong study of these unique "spirituals" and has been continuously alert to learn of new ones and get them before the public, believing them to have a spiritual message of value to everyone."
"This new book- "Rodeheaver's Negro Spirituals"- contains fifty-one of these unique musial messages and, so far as we know most of them have never been set to music notation or printed before. A large number of these songs were "discovered" by Mr. Rodeheaver when the "Billy" Sunday evangelistic campaign was held at Columbia, S. C. ......"

These statements are largey false- several versions of many of them were in print, with music, when Rodeheaver's booklet was published, and the rest seem to be compositions or wholesale revisions by Rodeheaver, Herbert, Sunday or other white evangelists.
Rodeheaver's obviously uncomfortable attempts to use Negro dialect are sometimes amusing.

One, which I think is an old labor song, "Ain't It a Shame to Work on Sunday," I will post separately elsewhere after I have tried to find some information. Earliest recording I have found is 1918, Bethel Jubilee Quartet. It is parodied as "Ain't it a Shame to Whip Your Wife on Sunday," (in DT) played by Fiddlin' Johnny Carson, Wiseman Sextet (1923), "Ain't it a shame to dance on Sunday" in an oral history, 1925 (McLin Project), etc.


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Subject: RE: Add: This Old Time Religion (Spiritual/Old Gospel)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 02:00 PM

Thanks for finding my older thread on this. The song is absent in the Spirituals Permathread.
Should have serched further.


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