Subject: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Bobert Date: 03 Mar 07 - 07:53 PM Well, well, well... One thing that has come out of the Dems takin' control of Congress is that the Bushadministartion and its followers are now having to act as if they actually support the troops... Yeah, afetr years of them tryin' to pin the Dems with the party that doesn't support the troops the recent Washington Post articles on just how Walter Reed has become a hell-hole for the troops is forcing the Bushites to put their money where their mouths have been... Good... About time... No, way past time!!! Ain't nuthin' like a little oversight... |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: dianavan Date: 03 Mar 07 - 09:31 PM The British are also having difficulty with the problem of wounded soldiers. Seems the best way is to 'sweep them under the carpet'. Pretend it isn't happening so that nobody gets the blame. Eventually, the injured will be counted but, of course, the fall-out from post traumatic stress will never be acknowledged. Some will call it lack of planning, I call it lack of concern. "A year ago, a parliamentary answer put the number of British servicemen and women wounded in Iraq at 794. Last Wednesday afternoon, The Observer was sent figures by the MoD claiming that 177 British men and women had been wounded as a result of hostile action in Iraq. Shortly after midday last Friday this had changed again when Reid announced that in fact this figure was 230, including 40 very seriously injured. At least 11 are known to have lost limbs. The previous figure of almost 800 was suddenly 'withdrawn' and would 'never be used again'. Sources from the MoD struggled to explain the sudden discrepancy, saying only that previous figures were invalid. But the new data raised their own questions, omitting as it did, the fact that 3,800 UK personnel had been hospitalised after being airlifted from Iraq without any detailed explanation of their condition. As Reid said: 'It depends upon the definition of casualty.' http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1692263,00.html |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 03 Mar 07 - 09:37 PM "Ain't nuthin' like a little oversight... " That's just the problem - there has been too much 'oversight'... :-) |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Peace Date: 03 Mar 07 - 09:57 PM The American count of wounded is about 24,000. One would expect the British count to be proportionally equal. If you have the numbers you can do the math I guess. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: GUEST,Dickey Date: 03 Mar 07 - 10:28 PM A "hell-hole" eh? Could this possibly be rhetoric? How many Hospital buildings are in Walter Reed and how many of them are a "hell-hole" Bobert? I had to take a neighbor to WRAMC for brian cancer treatments. Her husband was ex Army. I didn't see any flames or pitchforks, just a whole bunch of buildings. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 04 Mar 07 - 06:06 AM That's Dickey Bobert for ya! |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Bobert Date: 04 Mar 07 - 09:55 AM I guess you haven't been keepin' up with the Walter Reed stroy, Dickey... Oh sure, one ***can*** get excellent treatment there depending on who ***one*** happens to be... Unfortunately, our troops, while gettin' very good medical treatment are being asked to live in a dilapidated old motel that is full of mold and in poor condition... I've seen short srticles over the last couple of years about the poor living conditions of our wounded troops in various facilites around the country but the Walter Reed story and the TV news pictures realy bring the story into focus... I'd think that, seein' as you seem to be gung-hoo on the war an' all, you, Dickey, would certainly have a greater concern for our wounded brothers and sisters... I guess not... Bobert |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Rapparee Date: 04 Mar 07 - 10:11 AM Two years ago my wife took my late father-in-law* to the main hospital at WRMC. His appointments were in the 60s ward, on the 6th floor. Because of the number of people and a shortage of elevators, they stopped each time on the 5th floor. Specifically, outside Ward 57 -- where the amputees are treated. Each time he was angry, very angry. He thought that the facilities in general were a disgrace and the number of amputees were too great for the number of medical personnel available. You also have to remember that WRMC is on the list of bases to be closed...why spend money getting the rats out of a building you're going to tear down? And if THAT sounds cynical, you're right -- the developers in DC are all but drooling on the floor about the WRMC property coming available. *retired as a full colonel, served 35 years. WW2, Korea, Vietnam. Landed at Normandy on D+21 as a member of SHAEF Forward, liased with the French and Belgium undergrounds for SHAEF, Battle of the Bulge (Ardennes offensive), Battle for Germany, etc. etc. etc. That is to say, he'd seen the elephant.... |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Donuel Date: 04 Mar 07 - 10:16 AM IT was around 2004 when the White House proposed a budget that called for the virtual closure of Walter Reed Hospital. It was not clear if it was to be reclocated out of town but the budget cut was real enough. So were the other veteran benefit cuts. Eleanor Holmes Norton decried the closure of WRH and the last hospital in red lined ghetto ravaged SE Washington DC. Can you really blame Bush? After all he had already declared an end to magor hostiliteis in Iraq. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: GUEST,Dickey Date: 04 Mar 07 - 12:11 PM Bobert: Weather someone gung-hoo on the war or not is not a license for someone else to use rhetoric to try to escalate some issue for libs to use as a reason the be anti-war. What do you know about Walter Reed other than what you have read in a left wing newspaper? Maybe some buildings are bad but that does not make the place a hell-hole no more than slums in a city make it a hell-hole. I agree that this is not a good thing and it is good that it was exposed and something is being done. But it is not a hell-hole and blaming it on "Bushites" is not logical. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Little Hawk Date: 04 Mar 07 - 12:35 PM I've lived in the USA, Dickey. There ARE no left-wing newspapers in that country. ;-) Just Right/far-right/and center-right. You guys live in a dreamworld strictly of your own creation, believe me. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: dianavan Date: 04 Mar 07 - 02:12 PM Dickey - What do you know about Walter Reed Hosp.? Perhaps you can provide a glowing account of what is happening to veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan when they return wounded and/or in need of counselling? |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Peace Date: 04 Mar 07 - 02:18 PM Soldiers Face Neglect, Frustration At Army's Top Medical Facility By Dana Priest and Anne Hull Washington Post Staff Writers Sunday, February 18, 2007; Page A01 Behind the door of Army Spec. Jeremy Duncan's room, part of the wall is torn and hangs in the air, weighted down with black mold. When the wounded combat engineer stands in his shower and looks up, he can see the bathtub on the floor above through a rotted hole. The entire building, constructed between the world wars, often smells like greasy carry-out. Signs of neglect are everywhere: mouse droppings, belly-up cockroaches, stained carpets, cheap mattresses. From the Washington Post you like to quote, Dickey. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Peace Date: 04 Mar 07 - 02:26 PM "Priest said the project has been one of the most satisfying she has ever done because of the "overwhelming response." It was immediate. Within 24 hours, the military was painting rooms, killing roaches and mice, removing mold -- and paying attention to the bureaucratic problems that wounded soldiers faced. Members of Congress called for special investigations, and Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates named a panel of experts to make recommendations. He also fired Gen. George W. Weightman, commander of Walter Reed, on Thursday, the same day Priest and Hull had a Page 1 story saying top Walter Reed officials had been hearing these complaints for more than three years. On Friday, President Bush ordered a comprehensive review of care, and Army Secretary Francis J. Harvey resigned." Took the story to get things happening. Lovely bunch of folks, dontcha think? |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: GUEST,Dickey Date: 04 Mar 07 - 02:35 PM I have been to Walter reed and I have worked there in several different buildings. I have seen worse conditions in nursing homes. Of course you can't loose a war by bitching about nursing homes. I agree that this is not a good thing and it is good that it was exposed and something is being done. But it is not a hell-hole and blaming it on "Bushites" is not logical. My neighbors life span was extended may years by the treatments she got at Walter Reed. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Peace Date: 04 Mar 07 - 02:36 PM Trust you or trust many reporters and vets. Tough decision here, Dickey. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Peace Date: 04 Mar 07 - 02:43 PM "But it is not a hell-hole and blaming it on "Bushites" is not logical." What an asinine remark. You have just said that the Bush administration--one of whom is the Commander in Chief of the US Militaries--is not responsible for his troops. Way ta go. Another brilliant thought from a guy who doesn't know what name he posts under. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: pdq Date: 04 Mar 07 - 02:48 PM Posted 8/25/2005 8:51 AM Updated 8/26/2005 9:17 AM Walter Reed Army Medical Center selected to close> |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: pdq Date: 04 Mar 07 - 02:54 PM Posted 8/26/2005 1:10 AM Base-closing plan angers Republicans> |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Bobert Date: 04 Mar 07 - 02:54 PM Dickey, Havin' grown up in Northern Virgina during a time when there were lots of service people living in the same neighborhoods, I had lots of opportunities to visit Walter Reed... My next door neighbor, who unofficially who flew U-2 spy planes, got stomach cancer and spent a good portion of his last few months at Walter Reed and my mom and his wife would drag all us kids over there just about every day for an entire summer's vacation... That waas a lot of Waletr Reed... But over the years I've been there dozens of times visiting folks who were there for various ailments... But really, it wouldn't matter much if I'd been there or not 'cause that isn't what this thread is about, is it, Dickey??? So given that the thtread isn't about me, why are you trying to make it about me??? Hmmmmmmm??? Could it be that you find attackin' me is the first thing that comes to your mind rather than try to defend the Bush administartion's 6 year history of screwing over out troops??? One thing fir sure, you have become a 1st class one trick pony... Bobert |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: dianavan Date: 04 Mar 07 - 04:43 PM pdq - In spite of the volume of material that you have posted to this thread, I fail to find your point. Perhaps you can provide an answer to this: Was Walter Reed, ..."closed, reduced or expanded?" |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Bobert Date: 04 Mar 07 - 04:49 PM Well, pdq, these are two different issues... Closing Walter Reed would have been a mistake with all kinds of negative reprecussions to an area where there are a lotta service people... What, would you expect them to drive 125 miles south to the VA hosipat in Richmond 'er 80 west to the one in Martinsburg, WV??? But this isn't the issue at hand... What we are talkin' about here is negligence on the part of Bush administration, it's Joint Chiefs, the Secretary of the Army just to point out a few... But it goes even beyond the problems in Building 18 where the conditions were apalling... Yeah, what we find not too far beneath the "Support the Troops" crap that Bushites have been throwin' around to institutional neglect in creatin' a buarucratic maze for disabled service people to navigate that for the most part is not navigatable... That, my friend, is not way to support the troops... Meanwhile, many of the folks have become depressed and suicidal from the stresses of seein' their families have to declare bankruptcy and seein' their wives and kids evicted for non payment of rent becuase the $$$ just wasn't there... This is even worse than the conditions because the Bush folks have known about these things yet until the Dems came to power and could apply some oversight the Bush folks couldn't have cared less as they built more and more stumbling blocks for our troops... Bobert |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Stringsinger Date: 04 Mar 07 - 04:50 PM The important issue here is that Bush cares nothing for the troops he sends into battle to quell his so-called insurgency. He is suffering from a psychological disorder of a narcisstic nature that makes him unable to empathize with other human beings. It's a manifestation of his addictive behavior which was never checked by a reliable therapist. This explains the Walter Reed debacle succinctly. Frank |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Rapparee Date: 04 Mar 07 - 05:19 PM No "liberal" group, this: Statement from The American Legion Regarding Walter Reed Army Medical Center WASHINGTON, D.C., February 20, 2007 - Every American serviceman and woman wounded or injured in the line of duty deserves the absolute best care, under the best circumstances, for as long as necessary to effect a complete recovery. Certainly, according to the Washington Post, it appears that those military men and women assigned to Building 18 at Walter Reed Army Medical Center are not receiving that level of care. The American Legion is giving those allegations the utmost priority and is investigating conditions at Walter Reed. Our professional staff will prepare a comprehensive and documented report of its findings and will release those findings to the cognizant committees in Congress and the US Army. Under no circumstances will we be satisfied with less than a full and immediate resolution of the problem alleged. or this group (statement of March 2, 2007): WASHINGTON—The Disabled American Veterans (DAV) has called upon Defense Secretary Robert Gates to take immediate action to provide decent, sanitary housing for recuperating soldiers at Walter Reed Army Medical Center and to consider moving them to Department of Veterans Affairs facilities closer to their homes. In a forceful letter to Secretary Gates, DAV National Commander Bradley S. Barton expressed the organization's concerns raised in articles published by the Washington Post about the appalling living conditions for wounded veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan while they undergo outpatient care and discharge and medical retirement out-processing at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. The articles document benign neglect affecting hundreds, and over time, thousands, of soldiers at what has often been touted as the Army's premier medical treatment facility. "If the Defense Department can't or won't provide our injured soldiers with the decent living conditions they need and deserve, they should be given the option of moving to VA facilities closer to their homes where they can receive top-notch health care and rehabilitation services that will improve their quality of life," said Commander Barton. The VA is well-suited to provide services to these soldiers and already has agreements in place with the Defense Department to care for military personnel. There are hundreds of soldiers being treated today at VA poly-trauma centers and other medical facilities as inpatients and outpatients. Barton also noted that the VA consistently sets the benchmark for patient satisfaction, according to the American Customer Satisfaction Index developed by the University of Michigan Business School. The Institute of Medicine has recognized the VA as one of the best in the nation for its integrated health information system. And a comprehensive study by Harvard Medical School found that federal hospitals, including those run by the VA, provide the best care available anywhere for some of the most common life-threatening illnesses. And now, goddamn them all, the Bush budget increases the VA's budget for 2008, flattens for 2009, and declines year-by-year from then on. Yes, the WW2 vets are dying like flies and Korean vets aren't far behind, then the 'Nam dudes. But the assumption is that there will be no new needs in the future! The Iraq brain injuries and maimed will simply vanish! And by the way, the American Legion AND the DAV are both taking the proposed budget for the VA to task, as they should. I'm sick and tired of this abrogation of responsibility -- send 'em out with flags waving and shouts of "Huzzah!", hurt them, and forget about them. GO to a VA hospital sometime. VISIT with the men and women there -- the spinal injuries, the ones without jaws, the ones without eyes, and worse.... Then, Dickey-bird, you can tell ME about it. And yes, I **AM** a veteran...PMOS of 11B40. "Keeping our wounded soldiers on outpatient status in sub-standard living conditions for months or years is disgraceful and demeaning. No wonder many of them feel betrayed and abandoned by a government that claims to support our troops while leaving them to languish in moldy, vermin-infested housing," Barton said. "The brave men and women who have served and sacrificed for our nation deserve to be treated with dignity and respect," Barton said. "It is a travesty to treat them this way when there are much better options available." |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: pdq Date: 04 Mar 07 - 07:26 PM No Scarcity Of Suitors For Walter Reed Site> |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Rapparee Date: 04 Mar 07 - 07:33 PM Yeah. Funny about them developers, all slobbering to get their hands on the WRMC property.... |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Don Firth Date: 04 Mar 07 - 07:47 PM pdq, would you kindly stop shouting? Larger fonts in bold-face don't make what you post any more credible. It just looks like you're trying to outshout everyone else. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Don Firth Date: 04 Mar 07 - 07:53 PM See? I can do that, too!So let's not start a font-war, okay? Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Bobert Date: 04 Mar 07 - 08:06 PM The issue of closing down Walter Reed is a red herring... This thread ain't about red herrings but if anyone wants to start one, feel free... No, this thread is about the crappy care our wounded vets are gettin' at Walter Reed... And its about how their families are having to scramble financially because our vets have been gettin' the royal run around in tryin' to get their claims settled... Seems that this war will go down as the war where the Bushites were doing the spittin' on the vets... Bobert |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: pdq Date: 04 Mar 07 - 08:14 PM Save Walter Reed Medical Army Center, |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: dianavan Date: 04 Mar 07 - 08:25 PM pdq - What is your point? Anyone can google Walter Reed and cut and paste. Are you saying that the hosp. and other military bases are closing to make money off the real estate to finance the war; indifferent to the suffering of the servicemen and their families? |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Rapparee Date: 04 Mar 07 - 08:33 PM If he's not saying, dianavan, I am. No, Bobert. I think that the crappy treatment and crappy facilities are part and parcel of the attempt to close WRMC. "Why spend the money to fix it? They're gonna close it anyway...." |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Rapparee Date: 04 Mar 07 - 08:38 PM Oh, and not to finance any war or anything else of the sort. To make money for the developers and fast movers -- and the DC area is full of them. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 04 Mar 07 - 08:52 PM "Larger fonts in bold-face don't make what you post any more credible." But they Do make the amount ot text copy/pasted from another site that will 'fit onto one screen' far less ... Be thankful for small mercies Don... |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: pdq Date: 04 Mar 07 - 08:54 PM "Why spend the money to fix it? They're gonna close it anyway...."> Thanks, Rapaire. You nailed it. BTW, why is a suitable replacement for WRMC not finished by now. Perhaps it should nave been started between JAN 1993 and JAN 2001. Same could be said about the fixing levees in New Orleans, or maybe... |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Bobert Date: 04 Mar 07 - 09:06 PM Ummmm, not to burst any bubbles here but if I were a betting man I'd say that Walter Reed is safe for from the developers... at least for a while but... ...hey, is anyone here saying that the vets are being given the bum's rush by the Bush administration becuase of pressure from developers??? I didn't think so an' for the record... ...D.C. has it's handsfull with development right now... The downtown Convention Center was 'sposed to clean up the area from like 5th to 9th streeets up to Rhode Island... That ain't happened??? Where is all the developer cash??? This area is prime an' there ain't no developers steppin' up to the plate... And now there is the new baseball stadium down near the Navy annex and that's gonna open up another area fir the developers so I'd say that fir the forseeable future Walter Reed will be right where it is... Now back to thwe subject at hand which is why the Bushites now are all that concerned with the troops??? Why weren't they intersted last year before the election??? BTW, the Congressional hearins begin this week so this thread is bound to get more and more interestin' as the week goes on... Bound to be another bad week to be a Bushite... Bobert |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: GUEST,282RA Date: 04 Mar 07 - 09:34 PM The problem for me is how the Bush administration wanted to close down a facility they are relying very heavily on to handle the overflow of the wounded. Regardless of the quality of the care at Reed, what would have happened if the administration had succeeded in closing it down? Where would these hundreds of wounded be? The lack of foresight or planning by the Bush administration is frightening. These were the same people who were going to put all our B-1s in a big hangar in Texas by closing down Ellsworth AFB in North Dakota. Right. Let's put the entire fleet under one roof where a single terrorist attack or one good Katrina-sized storm could wipe it out wholesale. Let's close down a medical facility where we are desperately seeking every available space to house a growing number of wounded. What is this administration doing?? Then I also like how Bush is getting his photo taken with victims of the tornado last week. There he is in the news hugging these two young white ladies in this fatherly manner. But when they're black people whose city was ravaged by the worst hurricane in history he literally just ignores them. When it's white people in the Midwest, he's right there with open arms--using them to try and up his sagging poll numbers. What a scumbag. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 04 Mar 07 - 09:42 PM At least he's not MY President - but we've got Little Fascist Johnny, who thinks he's ours... |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Rapparee Date: 04 Mar 07 - 09:45 PM WRMC was to become part of Bethesda Naval Hospital -- where the Uniformed Services Medical School is located. Fine, okay -- the cost of the new buildings was to be about US $800,000,000. For the buildings. Unfurnished. No equipment. Nothing but the buildings. Bobert, you've lived around DC long enough to know that when land is made available someone's gonna try to grab it. ESPECIALLY land located on the edge of upscale Montgomery County. Frankly, I don't think that the Administration any longer gives a damn for the soldiers, sailors, and air crews.... |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Peace Date: 04 Mar 07 - 11:26 PM I don't think the Administration ever did give a damn for the troops. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Dickey Date: 05 Mar 07 - 01:27 AM "you have become a 1st class one trick pony" So it's about me now? Am I a stereotypical Bushite now? The only thing I said about Bobert was his rhetorical use of the term hell hole was unwarranted. I say there are many building there. Some old some newer. I remember working in the newest one. They had some fangdangled new automated cooking system in the kitchen that retrieved food from the walk-ins by robotic carts. Plus I did work in older buildings at WRAMC, NIH and Forrest Glen, Bethesda NMH, Saint E's (a real hoot), Old Soldiers Home etc. If some of the buildings are dilapidated, when the dilapidation occur? Evidently this was an ongoing problem in some buildings for years. When did the Bushites swoop in and run it down? |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: dianavan Date: 05 Mar 07 - 03:22 AM "When did the Bushites swoop in and run it down?" Dickey, a little wear and tear is to be expected but lets face it, when you are sending your soldiers to do battle, you should probably prepare your medical facilities for the wounded, regardless of how old and dilapidated they are. You either build new hospitals or you repair the old. There is no in between. Lack of planning seems to be running rampant in the White House. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 05 Mar 07 - 04:58 AM I know they tried to plan it, but I suspect they never really expected George to win anyway - and they still haven't recovered from the shock... |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Rapparee Date: 05 Mar 07 - 09:29 AM Yes, Dickey. I've been to all of those places and more. FWIW, my wife's family has lived in the DC area (Maryland and the District) since the late 17th Century. You might say that they really KNOW the DC area, that they've "seen 'em come and go." And they've clued me, a simple kid from the Gread Midwest, into the local political shennaigans that occur there. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Peace Date: 05 Mar 07 - 09:50 AM The USA did not expect the casualties it received. Recall that word was they'd be in and out within a short time. Just like the Gulf War. Just didn't turn out that way. "On January 11, 2007, the Pentagon discarded the time limit that prevented Guard members and Reservists from serving more than 24 total months on active duty for either the Iraq or Afghan wars. The Pentagon's announcement came in the wake of President Bush's decision to deploy an additional 21,500 troops to Iraq. The escalation contradicts the advice of top U.S. military officials. Although the majority of Americans are opposed to the "surge," most members of Congress are reluctant to block the supplemental appropriations request that will fund it, claiming that they don't want to abandon the troops. Congress has abandoned the troops for nearly four years. It is the soldiers, their families, and the people of Iraq that pay the human costs. The tab so far: more than 3,000 dead U.S. troops, tens of thousands of wounded, over half a million Iraqi casualties, roughly 250,000 American servicemen and women struggling with PTSD, and almost 60,000 military marriages that have been broken by this war. Including mine." From here. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Bobert Date: 05 Mar 07 - 01:09 PM How can this be, Peace, that the Bush administartion didn't expect this number of casualties... There were a lot of military generals who seemed to forsee what has happned... And, okay, lets jus' admit that Bush was (and still is...) a moron and thought that Iraqi's, after generations of tribal warfare, would welcome the US led invaders as heros and formed a perfect little countery with a mailbox on every corner and Suzie Creamcheeze Ali skippin' down the sidewalk with her cocker spaniel... But that din't happen... No mailbox... No heros... No dog... No little girl... But what did happen was that Buish was wrong in firing the generals who saw the real world and kept the dreamer generals along with dreamer Rumsfeld an'... well the caualties started addin' up and the letters to congressmen started pouring in from wounded vets and their families askin' "Where's the support???" Bush has had ***time*** to make the adjustments just not the ***will***... Kinda reminds me of the way in which he handled Katrina in stickin' his head in the sand and wishin' all that stuff would sinply just go away... Well, if one word describes Bush's life to date it's "AWOL"... And he has certainly been AWOL (yet again) on supporting the troops... Bobert |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Amos Date: 05 Mar 07 - 01:48 PM In addition, the biggest instrument in maintaining control of the populace, with its pent-up hatreds, was deliberately and idiotically disbanded (the Iraq standing army) by Rumsfeld despite the best recopmmendations of those on the ground, which just doubled the problem right out of the box. Instead of being our retainers, the disowned officers and provates were thrown out to merge in with the population and use their skills against us in support of indigenous hatreds betweens ects. A |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Peace Date: 05 Mar 07 - 01:49 PM Bush was an idiot in 2000 and again in 2004. The voting public has much to answer for, too. IMO. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Ebbie Date: 05 Mar 07 - 02:54 PM I like what somone sent me: Bush. Like a rock. Only dumber. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Amos Date: 05 Mar 07 - 02:57 PM Only half the voting public, Peace! :D Less than that for 2000. A |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Dickey Date: 05 Mar 07 - 04:18 PM "its pent-up hatreds" Not Amos's |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Peace Date: 05 Mar 07 - 05:00 PM ONE Bush supporter heard from. Do I hear TWO? |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Dickey Date: 06 Mar 07 - 12:55 AM I hear nobody claiming there were no complaints or bad conditions prior to Jan 1 2001. Who disagrees with this?: "The mess at the VA and in the military health care system is systemic and complicated. Political grandstanding on both sides of the political aisle has impeded reforms for years. The push to modernize and consolidate facilities, including Walter Reed, has been met with fierce resistance--exacerbated by bureaucratic edifice complex. That these failures to prioritize continue in war time unabated is damnable. Any light shone on the soldiers' toll, whatever the motivations and prejudices of the WaPo reporters might be, is welcome, IMO." |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Peace Date: 06 Mar 07 - 12:59 AM "I hear nobody claiming there were no complaints or bad conditions prior to Jan 1 2001." Allow me to be the first. I did not like Bill Clinton. I dislike him even more for the following: "President Bill Clinton's administration knew Rwanda was being engulfed by genocide in April 1994 but buried the information to justify its inaction, according to classified documents made available for the first time." However, Bush is still a lyin' sonuvabitch and he is getting your country deeper into a 'Vietnam'. Time to wake up I think. PS I already know that Canada is responsible for the US involvement in Iraq, so don't bother. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Dickey Date: 06 Mar 07 - 02:55 AM Peace: I was specifically referring to Walter reed and the VA system as a whole. Remember all the bitching of the Vietnam vets? Not that they were not justified in bitching. I think the public outrage about Walter Reed is a good thing. It will force bureaucrats and politicians into action. In that respect the Washington Post did good. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Rapparee Date: 06 Mar 07 - 09:05 AM Back from Vietnam, he wanted to return to college. The VA got his brother's educational benefit approved in a week. His fell through the cracks, so he went to work digging graves (by hand) until it could be found and worked through the system. Finally, after he'd taken out a loan to cover the second semester after his return, the VA "found" the money and the following conversation ensued: VA: You'll be happy to know that your education benefits have been approved. HIM: Good. VA (in a whiny sort of tone, calculated to make him feel ashamed): We had to get them from Emergency Funds in Texas. HIM: I don't give a fuck WHERE you got the money. (click) This is verbatim. I know -- I was on the extension phone when my brother talked to the VA. The year was 1970. The VA has a Fair Godmother Department. A lovely old lady works there and once in a very great while she puts down her knitting, picks up an application, and not only facilitates its instant approval, but grants all that is ask and more. But most of the time she knits. Complaints about the VA? They go back to the end of WW2. Complaints about the government's treatment of veterans? They go back to the end of the American Revolution.... |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Donuel Date: 06 Mar 07 - 09:24 AM The VA underwent the greatest reform when Carter apointed Max Cleland direcor of VA affairs. BUSH HAS COME TO THE RESCUE and has appointed Bob Dole and Shalale to spearhead an investigatory commission to look into the feasibility of forming a research project into the possibility of improving Veteran medical care. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: dianavan Date: 06 Mar 07 - 01:15 PM An investigatory commission is a slow, lumbering beast. The need is obvious. If he wants to know how much money for repairs, staffing and equipment, he just needs to ask the front line workers. I don't think firing the guy in charge is going to solve a thing. It just makes Bush like he is taking some kind of action. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Bobert Date: 06 Mar 07 - 06:20 PM Keep running yer mouth, Dickey... The congressional hearings are now underway and you can bet that the Bushites in Congress will try to pin as much as they can on Clinton, who deserves some of the blame, but alot more on yer guy... Oh, BTW, Clinton wasn't the one who turned "Support the Troops" into a PR whip to beat the opposing party into buying into a war they knew was wrong... |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Dickey Date: 06 Mar 07 - 08:46 PM Bobert: I'll shut mine down right after you shut yours. Maybe Clinton shoud hsve supported the troops better in Somalia. Was that invasion right or wrong? From a BLOG !!!: "I personally suffered through about 18 months at Walter Reed during the Clinton administration. I was Med-Evac from Bosnia after serving as an infantry platoon leader in Srebrenica for 6 months. I had roughly 7 years service at that time. Most of the time was spent undergoing a completely inefficient bureaucratic process that took more than 18 months to determine that I was not worthy of continued active service but, would receive no benefits. I can attest to the fact that I was cheated out of benefits based on a false technicality. "Existed prior to service". I had not legal recourse or mental wherewithal, due to my condition, at the time, to deal with this. I did use the process available at the time to protest their decision but found it a complete waste of time. There was no effort on their part to try to obtain an impartial second opinion." |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Peace Date: 06 Mar 07 - 08:52 PM When a nation deserts its wounded, it begins to have difficulty getting new troops. Morale sinks and armies fall apart. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Bobert Date: 06 Mar 07 - 09:11 PM Soamalia was like a parking ticket compared to Iraq, Dickey... You know it, I know and my dead dog knows it... Try to make your analogies less farfetched, can ya'... Man, yer psots are gettin' more and more desperate... Chill, brother... You are downright embarresssing not only yerself but Bushites everywhere... You make Ann Coulter look like a nun... No offesne, but get some perspective... I don't know where yer gettin yer stuff but I hope you ain't paying fir it... Bobert |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Dickey Date: 07 Mar 07 - 02:56 AM Bobert: Was that Somalia invasion where the dead soldiers were dragged through the streets right or wrong? Was the posting from a blog evidence that problems in the military medical system existed before the Bush administration or not? Your talking points and perspective come from the Washington Post. You pay for it and they profit. Because of the internet, newspaper readership is shrinking. The more national Enquirer stuff they can come up with, the more papers they can sell. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: GUEST Date: 07 Mar 07 - 07:25 AM Medical care at WRMC is outstanding. However, some of the outpatient facilities Building 18 in particular, leave much to be desired. The bad roof on Bldg. 18, had it been fixed early on, would have prevented much of the problem AND miles of 'column inches'. And this Thread. bobert, you come across as a BS'er. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Rapparee Date: 07 Mar 07 - 09:26 AM Medical care at WRMC has been and is outstanding. I don't think anyone is arguing that. But the facilities were allowed to deteriorate to the point where they became a hazard to those recovering and those working there. And they continued to be used. The care of veterans has had problems since the American Revolution. Like all governments, the US government wants them to fight but doesn't want to spend money on their care afterwards, especially as they get older. I know this, as I currently have claims in to the VA which may or may not be approved -- while they were filed in January I probably won't hear on them until August or later, or so I'm told by the veteran's reps here. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Dickey Date: 07 Mar 07 - 09:34 AM Bobert's crusade against the government clouds his judgement. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Greg F. Date: 07 Mar 07 - 10:18 AM The BuShites have been cutting funding for veterans benefits- or refusing to allow cost-of-living type increases- across the board since the Junta came to power. So where's the surprise in all this? Veterans groups have been complaining of this since 2000- but the issue simply seems to get no "traction", particularly among the mindless "stick a yellow ribbon magnet (or better yet a dozen!) on your SUV & call it good" crowd of Patriotic[sic]Americans... Hmmm...ever notice how patriotic rhymes with idiotic...? |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Peace Date: 07 Mar 07 - 12:24 PM For those of you who think everything's ducky at the facility, note that an investigation has been started. You seem to love Bush and ignore that he wants this investigation--of a facility where things are jus' fine. Right? Right! |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: TIA Date: 07 Mar 07 - 01:09 PM Guest (who is probably a regular in disguise) - Read back over five or so years of postings, and you will find that Bobert has been right a lot more often than the people bashing him. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Rapparee Date: 07 Mar 07 - 02:31 PM Bush has absolutely nothing to lose with an investigation. Face it: the Bush administration is OVER, O-V-E-R, in January, 2009. That means he's got about 18 more months. The investigation will take, say, six of those months IF it's done quickly. Then the report is accepted. And then what? The Bushies don't have to do ANYTHING except leave this mess as another thing for the next President, whoever it is, to clean up. In a sense, he can crap on the floor and needn't worry about cleaning it up. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Dickey Date: 07 Mar 07 - 02:45 PM Tia: I am still waiting for him to tell me where he came up with the fact that an apartment costs $1300 minimum. I will leave that 5 years of reading to you. And while you are at it, read back through all of the newspapers in the US back the war in Vietnam and see how many complaints about the Military medical system you can find. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: TIA Date: 07 Mar 07 - 03:06 PM I've already done the 5 years of reading. Did it in "real-time". |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Rapparee Date: 18 Mar 07 - 02:21 PM My wife, who's in DC at the moment, told me yesterday that a small article buried in the Washington Post notes that Walter Reed Medical Center will not be closed. Seems like neither the Congress nor the Pentagon want it done...now. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Bobert Date: 18 Mar 07 - 04:03 PM Hey, folks... You heard it right here from me a couple weeks ago... Ol' Bobert keeps his thumb on DC politics as well as national and with the closin' of DC General having caused so much flack and the developers in a hold pattern I just figured that Walter Reed would get a repieve... |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Peace Date: 18 Mar 07 - 04:17 PM Hey, head Dick: Maybe you could talk with these guys. I'm sure they like to hear from you--your opinions and view of how good things are for the wounded. Real sure. Let us know how it works out. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Peace Date: 18 Mar 07 - 04:19 PM I seem to recall it wasn't the US Military that exposed the effects of Agent Orange. I seem to recall it wasn't the US Military that exposed the effects of depleted uranium projectiles. Huh. Wonder why? |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Bobert Date: 18 Mar 07 - 05:06 PM Now don't get DU's back into the discussion, Bruce... The US Military thinks they are so safe that they oughta be sold in pill form at the local health food joints.... Nevermind that VA doctor from Delaware who was accumulatin' some scarey stats on our service people who had been exposed to them... He's been fired and repalced by yet another anti-science Bushite so all is well once again so be sure to... ...take yer DU pills an' don't worry, be happy... Bobert |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Rapparee Date: 18 Mar 07 - 05:12 PM Hey, Bobert, I take mine every day and nothing Awful has happened yet. I mean, I expected my arm to fall off and my left side to develop that "rash." By the way, I think that the heads that have rolled rolled so that people Higher Up could say, "Look! We're doing something!" The ex-CO of WRMC, for instance, had been on the job six (6) months and had asked the DoD for money to fix things up -- a request with wasn't approved until more than four months had past. And nobody was SUPPOSED to be in Building 18 -- not even staff. Gee, why am I thinking, "Follow the money! Follow the money!" |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Rapparee Date: 18 Mar 07 - 08:13 PM And on September 25, 1990, Saddam Hussein said that if the United States invaded Iraq it would repeat the experience of the Vietnam quagmire.... |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: GUEST,282RA Date: 18 Mar 07 - 08:41 PM >>BTW, why is a suitable replacement for WRMC not finished by now. Perhaps it should nave been started between JAN 1993 and JAN 2001. Same could be said about the fixing levees in New Orleans, or maybe... << ...we could hire some of our highly professional contractors who did all that wonderful work in Iraq to build one. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Peace Date: 18 Mar 07 - 09:31 PM "...we could hire some of our highly professional contractors who did all that wonderful work in Iraq to build one. " If they charge at the inflated rate they did in Iraq, the US can't afford them--unless you want another few trillion on yer national debt. |
Subject: RE: BS: Bushites finally support troops... From: Rapparee Date: 18 Mar 07 - 09:51 PM The estimated cost of a new facility at Bethesda Naval Medical Center, replacing WRMC, was USD 800,000,000. I found out that was figure was ten, perhaps twelve, years old. Today such a facility would cost around USD 2,000,000,000. Personally, I see no reason not to build it and others. The men and women I've seen when I've been to WRMC (and I have been there) deserve every thing we can give them and far, far more. (And yes, Iraqis too.) |