Guitar: Working vs Performance

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: pirandello
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 05:28 PM

My best guitar is the best because it sounds great, plays beautifully easily and consequently gets played the most. It also inspires me musically so why on earth would I want to to do myself, it and an audience a disservice by not using it as it was intended?

Give your guitar reasonable care and, if you're gigging with it, keep it in a case whenever it's not being played, e.g between sets. It's just common sense.

A guitar isn't an ornament to be polished and pampered but a musical instrument which will pick up a good collection of beauty spots during a working life. A G7th capo fell out of my shirt pocket and bounced off the top of a Martin J40 I once owned while I was bending over to put it in its case-three lovely dings. Shit, as they say, happens.

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Scrump
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 11:50 AM

Something I didn't mention before, but I think having more than one guitar helps you worry less about your 'best' one. I used to only have one, and worried about it getting damaged, even though it wasn't expensive. But it was my only guitar, and I hate the thought of not having a guitar at all. So just having one made me worry more about anything happening to it.

Now that I have a few guitars ranging from a cheap one to an expensive good one, I don't worry as much, because I know that even if I lost my best one, I'd still have another one to fall back on (ven though it isn't as good).

I hope that all makes some sort of sense?!

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 11:40 AM

Bee - its sulking, and waiting its opportunity for revenge.

One day you'll get that audition with the A and R man, you will get your axe out of the flight case you borrowed just to impress MR Big....and the guitar will fall in half, all the strings will snap as you look at them, and it will spontaneously combust on coming into contact with the air.

guitars are never to be trusted.

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Bee
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 11:34 AM

I'm still a beginner, had my guitar for a bit more than a year. It's not fancy, but it's the only one I have, and I adore it. I leave it out all the time, so I can play five minutes whenever I want to. I'm no graceful swan. I have: dropped it flat on a hardwood floor; knocked the neck on doorposts a dozen times, walked into the Christmas tree with it, slid it on its back down the deck steps (just caught it before it hit the concrete bottom step); the cat tried to use it as a scratching post and knocked it down; and so on.

There's not a scratch on it.

Apparently Epiphone DR100s are made just for people like me: too tough to traumatise.

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Scrump
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 04:52 AM

...then cocking its leg and spraying any new wooden objects in its territory..

I would say LOL but I guess you wouldn't have felt like laughing when that happened, GUEST. I would be pretty p***ed off.

Never happened to me, but we were a bit concerned at a pub gig a few weeks ago, when the pub's tomcat kept going under the small table where we had put the sound desk. Underneath the table were a lot of electrical gubbins, and having cats ourselves we were a little concerned that the tomcat might want to assert his ownership of his territory in the way that cats do, causing an explosion in the process :-)

Luckily when we mentioned it to the landlady she locked it away in the back room (or somewhere).

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: mandotim
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 04:12 AM

Personal view; guitars are tools, not ornaments. They are made to be played, not just viewed. Personal solution for the gigging damage dilemma; I bought a Rainsong. Made from carbon fibre, and as tough as old boots. If scratched, I grab some T-Cut auto paint cutter, quick rub, refinish with Autoglym hard glaze car polish. (That's exactly how the makers recommend you do it). Still get a lot of stick in folk clubs about my 'plastic' guitar though. I usually point out that it's made from trees, it's just that they are 30 million years old. How traditional do you want? ;)
Tim
PS it sounds pretty good too.

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Stringsinger
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 09:32 PM

I'm proud of my old Martin 0021. people have asked me if it is vintage 1930's because it sounds good. No, I tell 'em, 1957 but I beat on it and played it hard. I had it repaired when it fell off a table and splintered the neck but got it in the hands of a good guitar doctor who made it like new. It has a "patina" on it now and when folks see it, (those who appreciate guitars) they say "ahhh!" It has never sounded better...much better now than when I bought it. I was the first owner. There are so many good guitar doctors out there ....but be sure to pick the right one.

Moral: Play the hell out of it and make it sing. It loves it and it gets better.

Frank

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Midchuck
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 12:38 PM

If you want to leave it out from time to time, wall hangers - above pet or toddler reach - work a lot better than stands, especially if you mount them in a corner where there's low traffic, and make very sure they're securely mounted - don't trust screwing into wallboard alone.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 11:27 AM

As I said earlier- insure it!
chris

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: GUEST,name withheld for daft reasons
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 10:49 AM

.. so on the subject of pets..

anyone else needed to dry out and deodourize a guitar

after leaving it on a stand

whilst blithely unaware of a manky stinking pub / festival dog

sniffin round it..

then cocking its leg and spraying any new wooden objects in its territory..

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Scrump
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 10:13 AM

Regarding the dangers of leaving your guitar on a stand at home, as mentioned by Tim above, I take your point, Tim, but I would obviously recommend putting the stand in a place where people are not likely to bump into it or knock it over. I guess it depends how much space you have in your home. And it might depend who you share your home with - boisterous kids or pets perhaps being best kept away from the guitar!

I have an ideal place for mine, in a corner of the room, with an armchair almost on front of it (before anyone asks, no, the armchair can't be moved back into it because there is a lampstand there too). Nobody would be able to walk past it, but I can still reach for it easily. I wouldn't recommend putting it in a corridor or near a doorway, etc. But I realise some of us may not have a suitable place to keep a guitar on a stand where it might get damaged, in which case putting the guitar safely away after playing may be the sensible option.

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Big Mick
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 09:45 AM

Came late to this one. I come down on the side that says the marks are the sign of character. If you understand the nature of a wood instrument, then you will know that you are actually hurting it by not playing it. You can get away with leaving a cheap guitar in the case. But a quality instrument needs to be played. It has to do with wood fibers needing the vibration. I wouldn't put it at risk, but I wouldn't hide it either. Just use good sense. I am much less concerned about dings, than I am about good maintenance. Play it, expose it to people, and let it develope its voice and character. If you are truly concerned about it, then make sure you do these things:

• Develope a relationship with a luthier and take the instrument to him/her on a regular basis. I go semiannually and have the action checked and minor maintenance taken care of, but I play a ton. The average person could probably do this annually. Take time and find the best luthier in the area. Reputation is generally the best measure.


• Pay very close attention to the humidity levels in your home. A hygrometer is a very good investment. Also buy an instrument humidifier. No need to spend a ton, a very good one can be had for around $10.00 US. Keeping that instrument well humidified, especially in the winter months or in dry climates, will probably prevent much more damage than taking it out and playing it among people.


• If you travel, invest in a good case. I travel with a Calton. It has saved my beloved Larrivee from damage in a car crash that totalled my Jeep Grand Cherokee and put me in the hospital for a couple of days. The vehicle flew over 90 feet, rolled, and was destroyed. The bouzouki in the gig bag was demolished. The Larrivee D-05 in the Calton case was undamaged and still in tune. I went to these marvelous cases after my very favorite guitar was destroyed by baggage handlers. Expensive, but when one has a guitar that they have developed a relationship with, it is well worth the money. I recommend that you keep your instrument in the case anytime you are in a moving vehicle.


• Pay attention in crowds. A tabletop clamp, such as the Pub Prop is a great investment and a very effective tool. But you still need to make sure you don't prop the instrument in traffic areas, or around pitchers of your favorite brew. Good sense is the best defense of all. I am never afraid to take my instruments to a pub, but I also don't let staggering drunks, or rambunctious fools near my instruments. Just pay attention.

I am sure others will add to the list, but I would say to you that you should view the instrument as a wonderful tool used in the making of your music. Don't be afraid to take it out, you may be damaging it. Just take common sense precautions and let its character develope.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: GUEST,Tim Ausburn
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 09:18 AM

Almost everyone is saying hang your guitar on a stand. I never hang my guitar on a stand. When not being played, a guitar or any other musical instrument should be in it's case with all the clasps fastened. I've seen a lot of guitars get knocked over and necks broken, when if they had been in their case this wouldn't have happened. It only takes 15 seconds to put a guitar in it's case and fasten it up.
I play a 1951 D-28 Martin and it has it share of nicks and scratches but it didn't get any hanging on a stand.
I agree with all who say, "Play a guitar." Change strings as often as need, if you're not qualified to do minor repairs and set-up on your guitar, take it to a QUALIFIED person at least once a year for a checkup. Money well spent, a loose brace could be discovered and reglued preventing a caved in top. Just like keeping an auto in tune and top running shape.
But, first and foremost, play, play, play that instrument or sell it to someone who will.
Just this Ole Hillbilly's humble opinion after 60 years of hanking around the music scene.
Tim

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 08:22 AM

Dear Guest Guitar-Playing Klutz,

Good for you!

Don't take it personally, though, if people keep adding more and more to this thread-- it's a topic more of us are interested in than may care to admit! Tell ya what-- how about you refresh it for new members' convenience annually, to let us know how it's going? That way, anyone else having the same problem will see all these great ideas and perspectives, when they may need it.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Scrump
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 08:16 AM

The consensus seems to be that you should play the guitar, GUEST.

But that doesn't mean you have to risk having it stolen or vandalised by taking it everywhere. As I said before, I decided to play mine whenever I feel happy that the venue is 'safe', but I've played a few gigs in rough pubs where I wouldn't have felt happy taking it along, so I substitute an older, less valuable one on those occasions.

Just use common sense. If you would feel uncomfortable taking it to certain venues, then don't. But try to use it the rest of the time, and get some pleasure from it while you can - you might end up under a bus tomorrow!

(I sincerely hope you don't, though, or I'll feel terrible about it!)

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: GUEST,Anonymously embarrassed Klutz squared
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 08:11 AM

Dear All--

Believe me, thank you all for the "attitude adjustment" and laughs, and moral support, and UNDERSTANDING!!!

No, I'm not about to *pay* someone to take this instrument off my hands! :) And I don't think I'm ready to take it out to a bar gig, but we don't play many of those anyway.

HOWEVER, yesterday, I got home from work, took the thing out of it's case (I swear it said "Ahhhhhhh....!") put my student guitar into the Martin case (it may have said "Ahhhhhh...." too!) and hung the Martin on the instrument stand. Then I took a deep breath, made sure I was well away from anything that I could possibly bash, picked up the guitar, and did my practice session. And when I was done, I hung it back on the instrument stand, and it stayed there safely all night, and it was still there this morning. When I looked at it this morning, I reminded myself that my student guitar has hung in that exact spot for over 3 years, and hasn't been ruined. (though it has picked up some dings, which I henceforth shall see as marks of character, wisdom, and experience...)

Now all I have to do is keep this perspective on a gig, while dealing with performance anxiety, memory lapses, and cramped spaces!

One Step At A Time--"progress, not perfection!"

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: dwditty
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 07:44 AM

You have a few choices:

1. Put the guitar in a museum style glass case.

2. Do what you are doing, dreading the day.

3. Whack it with a blunt instrument and be done with it - the ding will have arrived.

I have a few guitars, but almost always play a Collings 000-2H. I really love this guitar, but a few years ago, I decided that ti si the guitar I use to make my best music and I should play it. I have managed to knock off most of those pesky sharp edges, taken a few divots out of the tip, and now I even tape the gig list to it! All that does not affect the sound though. While it is a nice guitar, and I may never have a spare $3000 to replace it, the fact of the matter is that it IS replaceable.

So, my bottom line advice is: Do whatever you want - just play the MArtin at home, etc, or play it out. Don't worry about your decision one way or the other.

dw

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: GUEST,Bruce Michael Baillie
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 07:42 AM

...We must all bear the scars of life with dignity, musical instruments are no different. Get over it and play the damned thing it's what it's for! Yes I agree no-one wants to see the neck broken off your favourite instrument or have it used as a club by some nutter in a bar room brawl! but my best instruments have been all over the place with me, yes they've had the odd knock over the years. But SO HAVE I!

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Fidjit
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 07:34 AM

It will show wear as you use it, including dings and scratched...

Yeah just look at Willie Nelson's guitar.

Has an extra hole in it even.

Chas

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: JedMarum
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:13 PM

You gotta with what you're comfortable with ... but a great guitar needs to played. It will show wear as you use it, including dings and scratched. My 1997 Larrivee J10 has been used hard. It's got a lot of miles, and it shows. Actually, it might look a little better then the hard miles should allow. BUT I was getting worried about it being my only hard used instrument. Now I split the work load between two. It'll add years to the J10's life.

Did you ever know anyone actually put plastic covers over their sofa to save it's color and fabric? The movies sort of lampoon that practice - but some folks really did it.

I believe a great guitar wants reasonable care - but if you don;t play it, no one will notice it's a great guitar - and worse; it will develop its own voice!

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 08:28 PM

Member Guest, give this a thought: Say that you keep your guitar perfect for 40 years- you probably will not live forever so eventually someone else will own your pristine guitar. And the first thing that person will do is ding it and scrape it and bounce it off the walls. Wouldn't you rather be the one to break it in?

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 08:11 PM

look, its obviously no good you......I'll give you a fiver for the Martin. Its probably out of tune anyway. that could take me over an hour to sort out, and time's money.

if its got a case, that will be extra postage and I can'r really afford to be so generous with the price.. i could arrange for someone to pick it up....for a consideration.

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Fidjit
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 05:16 PM

If it was a Banjo, then leave it in the case.

Chas

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 02:28 PM

I had a friend back in the '80s who shared our thread-starter's reluctance to play his better instruments anyplace other than his own living room. He owned a Martin D-28, a Gibson archtop guitar, and a Gibson mandolin, but all he ever played at sessions was a Yamaha guitar and a Harmony mandolin. Courtesy of his efforts, they were all in nearly pristine condition when was hit by a train and killed before turning 40.

Moral of the story? Play the things! Don't worry about banging them up a little. Enjoy them today! You might not be here tomorrow!

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 01:12 PM

A leather worker (saddle shop not shoe shop) can thin the leather to almost any gauge using a crescent-shaped bladed tool. In strapwork, a skiver is used to thin the endpart of the strap that will be turned over and stitched down over a buckle-- the strong thick part will go over the buckle hardware and get progressively thinner as the end goes on to where it was cut for a nice, neat disapearing edge. You can ask one to "skive" the area around the button hole and then sew a thin reinforcing material like ripstop nylon or fiberglass tape on the underside to restore the strength lost by the skiving with a nice finished look.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 12:39 PM

theres a strap called Fort Bryan - an American company, makes very supple leather straps - so if you have guitar stands and you want to use different guitars in different tunings, you can use just the one strap.

Ithink they're on e-bay

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Scrump
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 11:37 AM

A guy in my local guitar shop (which I'm ashamed to say I rarely visit) told me about the rubber washer tip for keeping straps on buttons. But my strap has a thick leather button hole and it's impossible to get the washer on the button. Does anyone make straps with thinner ends that are just as strong?

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 11:05 AM

Keepaway!

~S~

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:13 AM

Let me know the next party you take it to and I'll be there.

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Midchuck
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:01 AM

I don't want anything to happen to my nice guitars, so I'm going to buy this and keep it in a cheap gigbag to take to bar gigs and drunken parties. That should solve the problem.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Willie-O
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 09:33 AM

You should do what you're comfortable with, to a point. But minor nicks and such don't affect an instrument's value much. Further, a mature instrument really should have some playing wear. Wear on the neck and body finish are actually quite attractive when seen as the accumulation of many years of loving caresses. (I am still talking about guitars here).

A few years ago I was unforgivably careless with my Martin, letting it fall off a stand and CRACK RIGHT DOWN THE SIDE! I've forgiven myself anyway, and my friendly neighbourhood luthier fixed it for $30. I still use that stand but I fixed it to be more secure too. Life goes on and so does my 34-year-old guitar. Guitar nuts still admire it, they don't look at the crack in the side and realize what a klutz I am.

Klutz? I doubt you can outklutz me. I once had the thrill of opening for Archie Fisher in a 200-seat multi-use arts centre, the show was on an off-night in the middle of a play run so there was a theatre set partially in place. Archie, being a professional and a gentleman, made a point to warn me as he finished his soundcheck to be sure to duck going offstage so as not to hit the low-hanging plywood tree silhouette. I don't suppose I need to tell you what happened. Practically knocked myself flat on my back leaving the stage! Good dent in my forehead, and made an idiot of meself in front of one of my musical heroes and a packed house. But my guitar was unscathed and the whole evening remains about the best of my career.

A 20-year-old Martin probably has another 20 to go before it is considered vintage; the playing wear and dings are part of the package by then.

Bring it out, but not everywhere, use due care... there are some excellent suggestions here. I'm gonna try the "plumber's washer" on the endpin--that's a recurring issue with me.

W-O

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 08:51 AM

I have a 1957 Martin D-28. It is "my" guitar. I have owned it for forty years. For many years, it was my only guitar. Until recently, I took it anywhere I intended to play. It shows the wear and tear. I don't take it to really rough places anymore, but if it is a gig, my Martin goes with me.

Much anecdotal evidence says that the more you play a fine guitar, the better it will sound. Something about the vibrations and the wood. I don't know if there is any science, but I believe the statement is true.

Several people noted that they keep their guitars out so they are more likely to play them. Much of what I have read cautions against this practice. Not just because of possible accidents, but also because of humidity changes. Therefore, it depends on how humid your house stays. If you have lots of fluctuation like you might with forced air heat, it can be very hard on the wood.

The only guitar I keep out is a Crafter fiberglass body travel size. That let's me play whenever I want and I am not so worried about it's loss as it was relatively inexpensive.

I am not a guitar collector, I am a guitar player. If a guitar doesn't make it out of the case with some regularity, it's time for me to sell it.

Roger

Roger

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Scrump
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 07:52 AM

As I said earlier, I do use my 'best' guitar when I'm gigging at a known venue, or taking part in sessions, etc. The only gigs I don't take it to are those where I don't know in advance what the environment will be like - there are a few pub gigs I've done where I was glad I had one of my older guitars (but as I say, I've never had any damage caused in such places).

(The other problem to overcome, related to that, is when someone asks to borrow your guitar, perhaps at a session, or at a private gig where Old Uncle Fred wants to play Wild Rover 'cos he always does at family gatherings, and he just wants to borrow your guitar for five minutes, then he beats the **** out of it. I wouldn't want to lend my good guitar to anyone like that, ideally. I like to take a 'spare' old guitar for such occurrences, but I don't always do this.)

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 08:08 PM

I never see people playing a good, vigorous game of keep-away with their guitars when we host a Mudcat Gathering.

~S~

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: David C. Carter
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 06:23 PM

If Willie Nelson can get up on stage and play a guitar with two sound holes, I guess anybody can.

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Jim Lad
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 06:04 PM

I often place a monitor right in front of me even though I rarely use it. I find it stops people from bumping into my boom stands.
I'm a worrier, I suppose.

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Mooh
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 04:59 PM

The reason for having a great guitar is to help you sound great. You might as well sound great ALL the time. The outward appearance of the guitar is as important as the colour of your car when you're going 160 kpm...ie, it's not important.

I've got great guitars and I take them everywhere. They're tools and they help me sound like me.

Subject that guitar to everything and it, like you, will sound better.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Leadbelly
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 01:22 PM

Guest - "Klutz squared".

I think this does not matter if otherwise you feel fine. And I'm sure you do so. Apart from love, which is the most important thing in life that counts, feeling fine comes up to the top ten of events a human being is able to reach.
Sounds a little bit peculiar, dear klutz? No...just think about it and keep on playing your lovely Martin...

Manfred

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: bubblyrat
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 01:03 PM

I bought a new Martin MC 16 two years ago, and within a month or two, I was dragging it around various venues in Sidmouth.It is now starting to look nicely run -in,with dings,scratches, the lot. Four years ago, I bought a new Avalon, which I took to Miskin, & promptly stood it in a waste-bin half-full of water !! I only realised when the lady who had been doing the Corn Dolly Making class came in & shrieked " Oh God!! Whose guitar is that in my water -bin ? " OOOps !! But no probs., it"s off to an Irish sesion tonight !! Then, 3 years ago, I bought a 12-string, took it to a session that night ( The Mount, Corfe Mullen) and my partner"s mandola fell on it & took a chunk out of the lacquer on the soundboard. Life"s like that !! But my friend Frank Docherty, who liked my Avalon so much that he bought an identical one,cannot be induced to bring it out to the pub,as he is TERRIFIED of spoiling it !! So he plays his battered old "pub" guitar & spends ages every time,changing snapped strings !!

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:50 PM

Leadbelly, I am frequently "clumsy, inept, or accident-prone"...I am also occasionally foolish.

In this case, I'm not only liable to clumsily damage my best instrument, but I foolishly prefer to keep it safe from my ineptitude instead of using it for its intended purpose.

I think that might actually make me a "klutz squared"...

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: ridge plucker
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:41 PM

Dude,

Think of it like this. When you are old you want to be able to sit in a nice rocking chair on the porch and look back at all that you have done right. Well that guitar wants the same thing. SO get that sucker out of the case and start to get some Mojo built up on it. Besides when you get old and forgetfull a scratch will bring back a moment in time you may have forgotten.

Happy picking,

Pete

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:34 PM

You all are wonderful--You've helped me separate two issues--playing it isn't the problem, *worrying* about damaging it while playing it (or having it ready at hand to play) is the problem.

I don't really need the reinforcement to PLAY this guitar; I prefer playing it to my old one. It actually makes me sound like a better guitar player than I am. Better yet, unlike my old guitar with light strings, I can play the Martin with medium strings for hours, without having my left elbow, wrist, and fingers get sore.

What I need is anxiety-reducing strategies, and the ones that have been suggested are all workable, including adjusting my attitude to accept that material things are transitory, and that nobody's perfect, and that, while I may be a klutz, I'm a guitar-playing klutz! Keep 'em coming!

Thank you all!

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:17 PM

Leadbelly - thanks, I hate mysteries!

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:16 PM

Put a rubber washer like plumbers use to secure the strap on the peg - then it won't fall off so often. Or the rubber ring on the bottom of a Grolsch beer bottle top is very good for this also.

I used to have an act where I leapt around a lot , and this cured the problem of the instrument falling.

Don't have atrap with a buckle on - someone once packed my D35 for me and scratched it with the buckle.

As for leaving your guitar at home in case it gets damaged - you're not really giving yourself a chance as a musician. Part of getting to know the instrument is taking it out and gigging. You might find you don't like it much when you see how interracts with others!

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Leadbelly
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:06 PM

Terry McDonald - according to Wikipedia "A klutz is a person who is clumsy, foolish, inept, or accident-prone. The term is perhaps derived from the Yiddish קלאָץ klots ('wooden beam'), cognate with the German klotz, meaning a "block" or "lump"."

Like you I didn't know what this term means. But because of german origin I do know what a Klotz is. Brrrr..., sorry for this, Guest. But I believe that your are joking, wasn't you?

Manfred

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:01 PM

Think of it this way-- what if you had started this thread titled "Best Guitar-Busting BooBoos" and then you could see all the dumb things other players have done. And how well the guitars held up, or what new axe came along as the Next One. OK, you've been conditioned to see yourself as a klutz. Instead of fighting that conditioning, you can attack the effect of the conditioning instead-- BRAG about it instead of fearing it. Besides, playing it without busting it is bound to work some magic on you, you know.....

If you only play it when you're being paid to risk it, aren't you making it into a hooker instead of a pal? :~)

I'm sure the rest of us klutzes would be happy to swap some old beater for the Martin, and take it off your hands..... then you wouldn't need to worry about it anymore! :~)

Another possible viewpoint modifcation-- "I AM a klutz, but I'm a GUITAR-PLAYING klutz!"

~Susan

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 12:00 PM

I'd take care of it. I am very hesitant about taking some of my guitars to the wrong places - they are better than I am.

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Scrump
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:55 AM

Come to think about it ... I don't know many beautiful wimmen that would to be kept hanging on my bedroom wall either!

I've never put it to the test, but I have a feeling Mrs Scrump wouldn't be too keen on the idea either :-)

As everybody says, a guitar is for playing. So play it!

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:54 AM

but get it insured!!!!!!!!
chris

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:54 AM

If guitar makers didn't want their instruments heard in public by people who enjoy playing them why on earth would they make them. My 28 year old Fylde has a few knocks and scratches but I suspect if I hadn't played it so often it wouldn't have developed such a good sound. Play the damned thing!
chris

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:48 AM

I think it's Jed Marum who has what I think is the healthiest attitude about his gigging guitars I've seen around here-- that intrinsically, it's a tool for work. A beloved and well-cared-for tool, but tools need to be replaced from time to time and STUFF HAPPENS to them. I think his approach is to put the good ones in a Calton case, and let the airlines do what they will. Maybe they are insured, also-- have you looked into getting the Martin insured? Or are you at least putting part of the gig money away against the day you need to replace the Martin?

If it makes you feel any better, I drop my good autoharp on the floor from time to time-- hard, when the strap clip opens up as it sometimes does. I'll sliong the case over my shoulder and start off, and hear the THUD behind me as the whole case goes south. I LOVE that harp, but it's going to crack one of these times, and then? I'll have to love a new one. Cuz other than this strap clip thing, I really like that case! :~)

There are all kinds of tricks you can try to reduce the anxiety over this, but it has to start with taking your klutziness less seriously. It IS a serious problem, but treating it seriously will only reinforce it. No matter how klutzy you are by genetic inheritance, you're only going to get klutzier (and more anxious) the more you worry about it and the less you let the poor thing out in company.

You could try working your way up to resolving this, and get some more of the cheapies to handle in a playful, carefree manner so you can giggle the fears away while talking to the martin safe in its cse, nearby. "Hey, Marty, this may be your last day! "I may bust you to flinders in less than an hour!"

You also could try immediately getting an even better good guitar to lock away "in case" you wreck the Martin, to reduce the apparent importance of the Martin in your mind.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Scoville
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:47 AM

The only pristine guitars I've ever seen were the ones that nobody wanted to hear.

Anyone/any guitar worth listening to is going to have an instrument with some scars. Heck, Willie Nelson's Trigger has a gaping hole in the front, in addition to the soundhole. Get it out and use it. Mine live in their cases or on stands when they're not being used, but they do get used and they do travel (I must confess to taking the Alvarez places I wouldn't risk the Guild--like, outdoors when it might rain--but the Guild has its share of miles on it).

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: GUEST,Sailorboy
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:45 AM

There is a story prevelant concerning ramirez spanish guitars where its said that, when a customer came to collect a comissioned guitar, the said luthier used to take the guitar from its case and ding it on the front with his thumbnail then hand it over with the words " now you need not worry my friend" No idea whether this is a urban myth or not. Any takers?

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Nick
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:25 AM

I bought a new guitar a few years ago which, while not expensive, was new and I wanted to keep nice etc etc

First time I played it in the local pub that we used to play in I managed to drop a large metal bar onto it from the fireplace.

I'm not too concerned about where I take it now

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:20 AM

I play in a session where one regular brings an extraordinarily crap guitar. It's a twelve-string with most of the courses reduced to single and most of them years old. I can't imagine anybody who would give a fiver for it in a jumble sale. He's got a good one at home but I've never seen it.

He's sitting at a table with other people who have minimally a few hundred pounds worth of kit in use, some a lot more, and none of the rest of us seem to have a problem with the risks. I find his behaviour condescendingly arrogant - "you lot aren't worth me risking my good axe for".

I don't get why people don't use stands. You can put almost anything on a stand to reduce the risk of it being knocked over, and most of them are neither heavy nor expensive. A simple one that will work for any table-high stringed instrument is two heavy spring clips (the sort used for DIY jobs) connected by a length of elastic; clip it on the edge of a table with the elastic round the neck and the soundbox resting on the floor. Total cost about two pounds. Instead of something like that you see fiddles balanced edgewise on ledges, guitars sitting on chairs with the pegbox hanging over the back where anyone could bump it, flutes on tables where they could roll off if anybody stood up in a hurry.

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Deckman
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:14 AM

Come to think about it ... I don't know many beautiful wimmen that would to be kept hanging on my bedroom wall either!

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Deckman
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:00 AM

My answer is to keep my best guitar hanging on my bedroom wall. It's very safe there and yet also very handy. I would draw the comparision between your beautiful guitar and a beautiful woman. Would a beautiful woman want to be kept safely locked away! CHEERS, Bob

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:58 AM

Thanks, Guest - it makes sense now. But I still say play it - that's what it's for. It has no other purpose that I can think of!

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Roughyed
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:55 AM

I do sympathise. A good guitar is a beautiful work of art and when it is in perfect condition it seems heartbreaking to think of any damage. But everyone above is right. Everything is impermanent and steel strung guitars more than most.

How would you feel if you kept it for decades, took it out of its case one day and found it was unplayable? It'll happen one day whether you play it or not so you and the audience might as well have the pleasure.

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:54 AM

The poor thing probably does want out...I'm sure it does. It sounds so great when I let it out!

Why I'm a klutz: I've always been told I was clumsy. When I was about 10 I went through a growth spurt that put on about 4 inches in about 4 months, and I had another one when I was about 14, when I grew 6 inches in 8 months. I had no clue where my feet or hands were at any given moment, and I was constantly tripping, falling, bashing into things, and breaking things. Consequently, I perceived myself as a klutz, and I still do klutzy things. For example, a week after I got the then-brand-new student guitar, I was putting the guitar strap over my head and somehow the strap detached from the endpin, and I, instinctively, LET GO of the neck. You'd think I'd have GRABBED the neck, but no. The impact split the top in two places, dented in the bout, sprung the binding. What a mess. I did have the presence of mind to immediately loosen all the strings, but the damage was already done.
On top of that, at gigs my partner and I tend to be in cramped quarters; we really try to make open space around me, but I'm always bumping into things. And Leeneia, your insights are amazing--I hadn't thought of those things before, but I do always feel rushed--both at gigs, and at home, and I always seem to have too much on my mind, and I really, really wish the world moved a little bit slower. I'd move slower, but people are always telling me to hurry up as it is!

Thank you all, and please, keep the ideas coming!

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:40 AM

Take a look in the mirror Guest. Are you wrinkle free? Of course not. Those lines are like roadmaps - they show where you've been and who you are. A guitar is the same way.

My 1967 D-18 has some scratches and dings just like me. The biggest scratch I put in it was when I ran it into a railing going up the stairs to the stage. Sliced it right down to the bare wood. So it got fixed up and you can barely see it now. But what I remember about the scratch is that we raised several thousand dollars that night for a homeless shelter. So I'm proud of that scratch.

Relax - If you were perfect you'd deserve a perfect guitar. You're not perfect. So just have fun with it. Life's too short to worry about stuff like that. Be careful with it of course but don't let it ruin your life.

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:38 AM

I have no Yiddish - my Dorset is pretty good, but Yiddish, no. It was a serious question!

re the guitar - play it, play it, play it. It's only a Martin, after all. I use my best Gibson all the time, and that's the reason - because it's my best one.

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Scrump
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:35 AM

Hi leeneia - my guitar stand has a neck holder with a bar that folds across in front of the neck, to stop it falling over if it should be nudged (luckily our cat is a complete guitarophobe, and tends to keep well away from it).

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: GUEST, Grimmy
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:35 AM

I fully agree with leeneia - unless you want to mothball it as an investment, your guitar is meant to be played. It will get damaged. It's the way things are.

I've seen guitars belonging to Martin Carthy, Dick Gaughan and Tommy Emmanuel (especially Tommy Emmanuel) which look like a bomb's hit them. Doesn't bother them.

Play that thing!!!!

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: leeneia
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:28 AM

Me too, Scrump. My guitar is on a stand in the living room, away from sun and the heat register.

After I learned that the end with the tuning pegs makes the guitar top heavy, I started attaching the head end to the stand with a twist of wire. Wouldn't want a frisky cat to knock the guitar over.

Terry McDonald: how do you mean, "what's a klutz?" Where's your Yiddish?

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: Scrump
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:21 AM

Hi GUEST. I know exactly what you mean.

I only take my 'best' guitar to venues where I feel it will be 'safe'. Of course, even in the friendliest location it could still get beer spilt on it or something dropped on it, etc.

But if I have a gig in a pub I don't know, I have a couple of older guitars that I'm less worried about losing or being damaged. Some pubs I've gigged in have been a bit rough, but so far (fingers crossed) I've yet to suffer any damage to my guitars.

That said, I deliberately don't leave my 'best' guitar in its case at home - apart from anything else, I enjoy playing it more than the others, so I leave it on a stand in the corner of the room so I can grab it whenever I feel like it. If I had to get it out of the case each time, and put it back afterwards, I probably wouldn't play it much.

I'm assuming that after a while, I'll probably do something accidentally to damage the guitar, and then I'll probably care a little bit less about doing further damage. It's like when you have a new car (not that I would ever buy a brand new one) and you worry about getting a minor scratch. Then the first time that happens, you stop worrying :-)

Tell yourself that guitar's meant for playing, and get it out of its case right now! :-)

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: leeneia
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:17 AM

I know what you're talking about. I encounter people who seem to feel that their instrument is a piece of fine woodworking, rather than a device for producing sound. From the way they act, you'd think it was a museum piece by Chippendale or Sheraton.

For example, I have talked to owners of fretted dulcimers who can't play a single song, yet they were aghast at the idea of putting anything (label or sticker) on the neck to help them get started.

The first thing to do is to get away from those people.

The second thing to do is to realize that the guitar is not going to last forever. Whether perfect or imperfect in appearance, it is going to deteriorate. So what if you accidentally speed up the process some?

Finally, why are you a klutz? Are people making you hustle too much? Are you not getting enough sleep? Do you have too many things on your mind at one time? Do you need better vision correction? Ask yourself what's the deal with that.

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:15 AM

What's a 'Klutz'?

Subject: RE: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:12 AM

Well, think about it from theguitar's perspective--

"Lemme outta here! I'm tough! I can handle a coupla dings, fer cryin' out loud! Lemme OUTTA here......"

Let it out, let it breathe, let is PLAY. It will develop its unique sound, if you do.

~Susan

Subject: Guitar: Working vs Performance
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:07 AM

First, I'm posting this as guest because I'm too embarrassed to post as a member...

Second, though the problem occurs for me with guitar, it could be any instrument.

Here's the issue--I have my "good ole student guitar"--20-years old, sounds ok, plays ok, nice instrument for what I paid for it. It's got some dings 'n' scratches, because I'm a klutz.

2 years ago, I got a lovely (also 20-year-old) Martin. I bought it from a friend, so I paid what it was worth, which really wasn't much in a world where people routinely pay twice as much for a fiddle bow. It sounds great, and plays wonderfully, and, here's the problem--it hasn't a scratch. Consequently, it spends all its time in its case, because (as I said before) I'm a klutz. I only take it out on gigs where I know it will be safe, and even then I'm a wreck about it getting dinged, banged, scratched, etc.

Does anybody else have this problem???? Anybody have any advice???

It's a good thing I don't have any kids...


Thanks in advance,
Anonymously Embarrassed