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Lyr Req/Add: Shall We Gather at the River

Haruo 06 Mar 07 - 06:43 AM
The Doctor 06 Mar 07 - 10:03 AM
Jim Dixon 18 May 10 - 11:18 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 18 May 10 - 11:38 PM
Jim Dixon 18 May 10 - 11:41 PM
Jim Dixon 19 May 10 - 12:10 AM
Doug Chadwick 19 May 10 - 02:47 AM
Haruo 19 May 10 - 03:51 AM
Jim Dixon 20 May 10 - 03:14 PM
Newport Boy 20 May 10 - 03:47 PM
Joe Offer 20 May 10 - 04:01 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 May 10 - 09:22 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 10 May 14 - 12:29 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 10 May 14 - 12:38 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 10 May 14 - 01:44 PM
GUEST 10 May 14 - 03:57 PM
GUEST 10 May 14 - 06:17 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 10 May 14 - 07:28 PM
GUEST 10 May 14 - 08:59 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 11 May 14 - 12:57 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 11 May 14 - 01:58 PM
GUEST 12 May 14 - 11:25 AM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Shall we gather stanzas
From: Haruo
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 06:43 AM

In a collection with the rather odd title "PIANO PLAYING Made Easy HYMNS BY THE EDITORS OF CONSUMER GUIDE®" by Gilbert DeBenedetti, published in 1997 by Publications International, Ltd., there is a three-stanza version of "Shall We Gather at the River?" that has a stanza I don't see elsewhere.

The first stanza is the universal one, followed by the universal refrain ("Yes, we'll gather..."), which the version in the DT seems to regard as a stanza though it differs metrically.

The second stanza is the second and final one in the DT, "On the margin of the river..."

The third (and final) stanza is the one that is new to me:

On the bosom of the river,
Where our Saviour-king we own,
We shall meet and sorrow never
'Neath the glory of the throne.

There's another set of lyrics in the thread ADD: Uncle Dave Macon Lyrics, which gives two more verses:

Ere we reach the shining river
Lay we every burden down
Grace our spirits will deliver
And provide a robe and crown.

Soon we'll reach the shining river
Then our pilgrimage will cease
Soon our happy hearts will quiver
With the melody of peace

The version at The Cyber Hymnal adds, between the two just given, another:

At the smiling of the river,
Mirror of the Savior's face,
Saints, whom death will never sever,
Lift their songs of saving grace.

So... are all of these authentically part of the hymn as Lowry wrote it? Are there yet others out there? What is the canonical order of the full set?

Haruo


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shall we gather stanzas
From: The Doctor
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:03 AM

In my collection of hymnbooks I have one entitled 'The Hymnal, Army and Navy', United States Government Printing Office, Washington, 1942. The version in it, ascribed to Rev.Robert Lowry, 1826-1899, has four verses. V.1 Shall we gather...., V.2 On the margin...., V.3 On the bosom of the river...., V.4 Soon we'll reach the silver river, Soon our pilgrimage will cease. Soon our happy hearts will quiver With the melody of peace.
Also Sacred Songs and Solos, 1200, has V.1 Shall we gather.... V.2 On the margin...., V.3 Ere we reach.... V.4 At the shining....(instead of 'smiling', which fits more logically with 'Mirror' in the next line), and V.5 Soon we'll reach.... Again, all credited to Lowry.
The rest of my hymnbooks are British.


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Subject: Lyr Add: BEAUTIFUL RIVER / SHALL WE GATHER AT...
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 18 May 10 - 11:18 PM

This is the oldest printing of the hymn I can find with Google Book search?although I found references to it as early as 1846. It does not contain the "bosom of the river" verse.

From Happy Voices: New Hymns and Tunes... (New York: American Tract Society, 1865), page 153/Hymn 220:

[This is the source cited by The Cyber Hymnal.]

BEAUTIFUL RIVER
Rev. R. Lowry

1. Shall we gather at the river,
Where bright angel feet have trod;
With its crystal tide forever
Flowing by the throne of God?

CHORUS: Yes, we'll gather at the river,
The beautiful, the beautiful river?
Gather with the saints at the river
That flows by the throne of God.

2. On the margin of the river,
Washing up its silver spray,
We will walk and worship ever,
All the happy golden day.

3. Ere we reach the shining river,
Lay we every burden down;
Grace our spirits will deliver,
And provide a robe and crown.

4. At the smiling of the river,
Mirror of the Saviour's face,
Saints whom death will never sever,
Lift their songs of saving grace.

5. Soon we'll reach the silver river,
Soon our pilgrimage will cease;
Soon our happy hearts will quiver
With the melody of peace.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shall We Gather at the River
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 May 10 - 11:38 PM

It is reported by a biographer that 40,000 voices sang the song on Childrens Day in Brooklyn, 1865. He wrote the song in summer, 1864, according to McKean, Illustrated History of Hymns and Their Authors (a Google book).

The 1865 incident:
http://www.wholesomewords.org/biography/blowry.html


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shall We Gather at the River
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 18 May 10 - 11:41 PM

The oldest occurrence of the "bosom of the river" verse I can find is in Bradbury's Golden Chain and Shower for the Sabbath School by William B. Bradbury (New York: Biglow & Main, 1866), page 153/Hymn 25:

Verses 1-2 and 4-6 correspond exactly to the text posted above.

Verse 3 is the "bosom of the river" verse exactly as quoted by Haruo above.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shall We Gather at the River
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 19 May 10 - 12:10 AM

I said earlier that I had found references to SHALL WE GATHER AT THE RIVER going back to 1846. I have re-examined my source, and I now see that I was misled by an oddly bound volume?several booklets with different publication dates were apparently bound together in one volume, and the volume was catalogued by Google according to the oldest booklet.

So the information was false.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shall We Gather at the River
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 19 May 10 - 02:47 AM

From my in depth research of watching Hollywood westerns, this song makes up 50% of the entire repertoire of hymns sung in the old west. The other 50% is "Rock of Ages".


DC


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shall We Gather at the River
From: Haruo
Date: 19 May 10 - 03:51 AM

Yeah, you scared me for a minute there, Jim. This song in 1846 would be sort of like finding a reference to "Hey Jude" from the fifties.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shall We Gather at the River
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 20 May 10 - 03:14 PM

Haruo: You mean like this?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shall We Gather at the River
From: Newport Boy
Date: 20 May 10 - 03:47 PM

Off-topic - my parents played in a mixed hockey team in the 1920s. At the end of one match against a team in the Wye Valley, they were surprised when the opposition lined up and sang "Shall we gather at the Fountain".

Turned out the Fountain was the local pub!

Phil


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shall We Gather at the River
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 May 10 - 04:01 PM

I came across this page about a 1924 sermon by Aimee Semple McPherson. I had no idea the joke was so old. I wonder how far back it goes before Aimee. Here 'tis:
    Amy McPherson: Leaving Los Angeles for New York, and the boat, upon which we sail immediately, I was met en route by multitudes of our friends. Among them ever was a liberal sprinkling of newspaper men. And in each city, they asked the same question: “Sister McPherson, what do you think of Prohibition?” It was rather difficult to answer the question in such a few words as one must use then, but I told them, that the case about Prohibition here in the United States, reminds me of the story of the lecturer who gave a marvelous address on prohibition. And he wound up in a blaze of glory that brought everyone to their feet enthusiastically. “Why is it my friends, if I had my way, do you know what I’d do? I’d take every barrel of liquor, every bottle of booze, every crate, and I’d empty it in the river. Yes sir.” Then he said, “Shall we now close our meeting by rising and singing, ‘Shall We Gather at The River?’” He’d spoiled it all. And that’s the way perhaps with us over her in America: we teach it, but so often those who profess to make the laws do not quite live up to them, and back them themselves. I wish that you could all have the joy of going with us this Easter tide to the Holy Land, where we shall visit on Easter Day, the tomb of our risen Lord.

    Source: Courtesy of the Michigan State University, G. Robert Vincent Voice Library.

Video - click


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shall We Gather at the River
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 May 10 - 09:22 PM

Aimee was Canadian, but prohibition didn't take. Lots of blue, and peculiar laws, however.
Years ago, visiting or working in the Maritimes, the need for a dram of an evening came upon one. To find a drink, one headed to the Canadian Legion, since drink could be found at clubs, and the Canadian Legion was happy to accept one and all. The only hard drink was rum, whisky (or whiskey) was seldom drunk and cocktails were only on birds.


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Subject: Lyr Add: Shall We Gather At The River
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 May 14 - 12:29 PM

Lyr: Add: SHALL WE GATHER AT THE RIVER
Robert Lowry, 1865; Tune: William Houser

Shall we gather at the river,
Where the bright angel feet have trod;
With its crystal tide forever
Flowing by the throne of God?

On the margin of the river,
Washing up its silver spray,
We will walk, and worship ever,
All the happy, golden day.

Ere we reach the shining rive,
Lay we every burden down;
Grace our spirits will deliver,
And provide a robe and crown.

At the smiling of the river,
Mirror of the saviour's face,
Saints whom death will never sever,
Lift their songs of saving grace.

On the bosom of the river,
Where the saviour-King we own,
We shall meet and sorrow never,
'Neath the glory of the throne.

Soon we'll reach the shining river,
Soon our pilgrimage will cease;
Soon our happy hearts will quiver
With the melody of peace.

Refrain often added:

Yes, we'll gather at the river,
The beautiful, the beautiful river;
Gather with the saints at the river
That flows by the throne of God.

The text first appeared in Happy Voices no. 220, 1865.
William Houser is best known for his book, The Hesperian Harp,, 1848.

Aaron Copeland arranged the song for his suite, "Old American Songs." It was used in many films, including Elmer Gantry, Trip to Bountiful, Stage Coach, etc.
An arrangement also was made by Charles Ives.

The group "anonymous" applied the title "Palmetto" in the album Gloryland.

Surprised I could not find the text in mudcat.

See Cyberhymnal for a discussion.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shall We Gather At The River
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 May 14 - 12:38 PM

Burl Ives recorded the hymn. He sang the first verse as:

Shell we gather at the river
Where bright angels he has brought
With its crystal tides forever
Flowing by the throne of God.


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Subject: RE: req/ADD: Shall We Gather at the River
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 May 14 - 01:44 PM

Thanks to the finder of the thread. Joe, undoubtedly.

"Beautiful River," indeed.


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Subject: RE: req/ADD: Shall We Gather at the River
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 14 - 03:57 PM

https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/6984

Sheet music from 1774.


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Subject: RE: req/ADD: Shall We Gather at the River
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 14 - 06:17 PM

Sorry. I tried to correct that. The date should read 1874. Couldn't get back on until just now.


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Subject: RE: req/ADD: Shall We Gather at the River
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 May 14 - 07:28 PM

Thanks, Guest.
Titled: Beautiful River. This title seems to have been dropped in several of the recent hymnals.
Uncertain about when the tune was written, and citation of Wm. Houser in my post may be incorrect.


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Subject: RE: req/ADD: Shall We Gather at the River
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 14 - 08:59 PM

'In another category are three songs from the Cooper book: 449 BEAUTIFUL RIVER (1864), 454 THE BLESSED LAMB (arr. 1902?), and 483 WHERE THE SAINTS ARE PASSING OVER (1882). The composers draw out the phrase expressively in some places and compress it in others, in a way that seems to me more typical of gospel music than earlier shape-note repertoire. Example 6 is a phrase from BEAUTIFUL RIVER. The first line has the same rhythm as "I've been working on the railroad," a glee from the 1890s.'

that is from

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:dAGbaMoyeEMJ:www.shenandoahharmony.com/feed/atom/+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca


Note the song date of 1864.


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Subject: RE: req/ADD: Shall We Gather at the River
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 May 14 - 12:57 PM

Several sites give the date as 1864, but the first appearance in print seems to be 1865. Not that it matters particularly, but could 1864 be a MS.?


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Subject: RE: req/ADD: Shall We Gather at the River
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 May 14 - 01:58 PM

Thanks, Guest, for the link to www.shenandoahharmony.com

It led to all the lyrics from hymns from the B. F. White Sacred Harp (Cooper Book):

www.texasfasola.org/resources/index/titles.html#483


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Subject: RE: req/ADD: Shall We Gather at the River
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 14 - 11:25 AM

You are welcome, Q. Always a pleasure to be of assistance.


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