St. Patrick's Day Etiquite

Subject: RE: St. Patrick's Day Etiquite
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 03:38 AM

I'm taking part in 4 St Paddy's concerts over 3 weeks and looking forward to every sentimental second of it! I'm half Irish, but not born, raised or even visited Ireland. Yet when I sing "Whiskey in the Jar" a tiny hint of accent appears and it ain't deliberate. Go figure.

Off on another tangent - when driving through Oklahoma on my way to Austin several years ago a local radio station was trying to celebrate St Paddy by playing that fine old Irish ballad, "Broom o' the Cowdenknowes"! Oy vay!

Subject: RE: St. Patrick's Day Etiquite
From: mg
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 03:33 AM

i THINK A Lot of what is called fake Irish is quite legitimate Irish-American behavior and culture and therefore not to be rediculed. A nwe culture did develop here and yes, people enjoyed music hall songs and there were corrupt politicians etc. and people clung to little fragments of what came down from the ages...much, very much, of ;which was not talked about since the famine experience was so traumatic. So think of who you are making fun of...my ancestors for sure. My father only seemed to know two songs and one was MacNamara's band. You needn't make fun of him, or me for singing it and I can assure you there are many many people who seem to find it part of the Saint Patrick's day experience, which they are under no obligation to participate in, to put down those who want to celebrate it more or less like their grandparents did. mg

PS my grandfather had a shileleigh and my grandmother made lace. mg

Subject: RE: St. Patrick's Day Etiquite
From: Scrump
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 02:44 AM

I'm not 100% sure what the OP was saying - whether he (or she?) is complaining about the 'fake Irishness' of many St Patrick's Day celebrations, or about people who make fun of that.

Even in Dublin, there's a lot of the 'fake Irishness' in certain pubs (etc.) aimed at tourists, and gift shops selling all kinds of Irish souvenirs (fake shillelaghs, 'leprechaun' hats, etc.). I think this is all good fun, while being a bit tacky in taste terms, but I think people who don't like all that should lighten up. If I go to a bar and they're singing Danny Boy, If You're Irish..., When Irish Eyes Are Smiling, etc., then I don't mind, I'll join in with the rest and enjoy myself. I know it's not 'proper' Irish music and I'd rather be in a pub where there's a session on, but that doesn't mean I can't see the enjoyable side of it.

I think it's good that so many people, even those who aren't Irish, are happy to join in the celebrations.

Sorry if I've misunderstood your point, OP.

Subject: RE: St. Patrick's Day Etiquite
From: Padre
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 12:19 AM

I'll be performing at a retirement home on Friday - and I'll do a lot of the 'commercial' Irish songs because that's what the folks there enjoy.

Padre (who's really only 1/4 Irish)

Subject: RE: St. Patrick's Day Etiquite
From: Jim Lad
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 10:12 PM

I know I didn't insult anyone, meself but judging by GUEST,mg's response to me, I did miss the point.
I'll be playing on the 15th & 17th and "Danny Boy" will be treated with the same respect, I have always given it. (Way down in "C" where anyone and everyone can easily join in)
But I still won't be assaulted by the various phony accents on NPR, CBC, BBC or any other broadcast. There's a limit.

Subject: RE: St. Patrick's Day Etiquite
From: Stewart
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 09:22 PM

I'm not trying to insult Mary (not him) or her people. In fact I respect Mary and her people. I just don't respect the drunks.

When I was visiting Ireland, people would ask me if I had Irish ancestors. I would answer, "no, my people just came and burned and pillaged... they were the Vikings." After a short pause the would say "that's okay, that was a long time ago. Now, if you were English..." After all, the city of Dublin was founded by Norwegians, and a lot of Norwegian genes got mixed with the Irish. I have a great affinity with the Irish.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: St. Patrick's Day Etiquite
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 09:00 PM

A lot of you seem to have missed the point of mg's post that started this thread - or else you're trying to insult him and his people deliberately (Joe F possibly excepted!).

Subject: RE: St. Patrick's Day Etiquite
From: Joe_F
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 08:44 PM

I will be going to a bisexual brunch & a filk house concert. However, I will dig a green turtleneck out of the bin. I have no known ancestor named O'Malley, but a couple of branches of my mother's family have been in America since before the Revolution. Likewise the Irish. So saying I had no Irish ancestry would be saying something about who slept with whom over the last 300 years.

Believe it or not, not everyone has been overexposed to the Derry Air. It's just a pretty tune to me.

Subject: RE: St. Patrick's Day Etiquite
From: Stewart
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 08:26 PM

I just had to get them off the hook on that one, and really I didn't have the nerve to sing it in Matt Molloy's bar.

Subject: RE: St. Patrick's Day Etiquite
From: Leadfingers
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 08:13 PM

If you are the 'visitor' at a session Stewart , in MY book you are obliged to play all the Crap that get requested , just to take the pressure off the locals for that one night !!

Subject: RE: St. Patrick's Day Etiquite
From: Stewart
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 07:31 PM

Yes, the last time I was in Ireland, playing with a local session, a punter (probably an American tourist) came up and asked if they could play Danny Boy. The session host said she really didn't know the song, then looked at me, the innocent from abroad, and asked if I knew it. Of course I said no. What else could I say?

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: St. Patrick's Day Etiquite
From: Greg B
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 06:58 PM

Rapaire--- anybody who tucks his pants inside his boots in a pub is a
C&W poppinjay who deserves what he gets. :-)

Worn properly, boots are immune from internal invasion. That's
rather the point. Otherwise, we may as well just wear clogs, but
I'll leave the debate on the merits to Lancashire vs. New Mexico.

Stewart, there's not a thing wrong with 'Danny Boy.' Once. Per
night. Or fortnight as the case may be. It sells lots of drinks.

Nor with 'Roddy McCorley.' In fact, most of the 'Irish Standards'
are just damned fine singing; that's how they became standards.

In fact I'll admit that I enjoy a Clancy Bros. cover band, six
pints of Guinness, a plate of Irish stew, an obscure mix of Bailey's,
Irish Mist, and Jamison's and a designated driver home as much as the
next guy in a green felt bowler hat.

But I promise, yes I truly promise, that I won't ever, ever,
request 'Danny Boy.'

Subject: RE: St. Patrick's Day Etiquite
From: Stewart
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 06:42 PM

I'd just as soon stay away from drunks in bars (at least to keep my boots clean). But we did go to a retirement home last St. Paddy's Day and it was an enjoyable experience - green hats and all. Sang some songs I would never sing anywhere else, like Danny Boy(can't believe I did that!). It was great and the residents really enjoyed it. We've been there on other occasions and it's always fun - you can't really do anything wrong, they enjoy it just the same. The last time we talked to a ninety-some year old lady, a former musician who was quite with it, and she also enjoyed our music.

But I'd just as soon stay out of the bars on that day. Even though I perform in bars under other circumstances.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: St. Patrick's Day Etiquite
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 06:21 PM

You have the wrong preposition, Amergin. It's IN, not ON.

Subject: RE: St. Patrick's Day Etiquite
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 06:20 PM

We'll be at a quilt show in Twin Falls, Idaho. On the way to and from we'll probably listen to Irish music. There's a nice restaurant in Twin where you can really Thai one on...we'll probably dine there.

Subject: RE: St. Patrick's Day Etiquite
From: Amergin
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 06:17 PM

What's wrong with puking on some one else's boots? It's better than dirtying my own.

Subject: RE: St. Patrick's Day Etiquite
From: Greg B
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 06:14 PM

When puking on your boots, make sure they're YOUR boots.

Another one to live by.

Oh, and don't request Danny Boy more than ten times per hour.

Subject: RE: St. Patrick's Day Etiquite
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 06:10 PM

fine with me...

Subject: RE: St. Patrick's Day Etiquite
From: Jim Lad
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 06:06 PM

Mind you, I'm not sure that this one doesn't belong in the BS threads.

Subject: RE: St. Patrick's Day Etiquite
From: Jim Lad
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 06:04 PM

Two days of the year when I never listen to radio. St. Patrick's day & Robert Burns day. I just find the fake accents, insulting.

Subject: St. Patrick's Day Etiquite
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 05:59 PM

Not sure I spelled that right. Anyway, time for the annual sensitivity class. In a nutshell, it is not nice to make fun of Irish-Americans who celebrate St. Patrick's day in a way that more sophisticate people find amusing and worthy of disdain and snooty comments. Just not necessary. Just stay away from the pubs with the shamrock on the door and stay away from the Catholic churches and nursing homes and grade schools and you probably won't be contaminated by inferior music (well, I like it) and green beer and people wearing green sparkly hats and kiss me I'm Irish buttons. Stay in all day if you must. Stay off public transportation because a lot of people ride the bus to the parades. Take a roundabout way to work if your office is on a parade route.

And don't take a paying gig if the very thought of the music the old people have come to hear doesn't meet your high standards. These songs are hauled out once a year and have great meaning to people who want to assemble and sing them..maybe for the last time. This is a huge chunk of culture, not ancient culture, but a culture that was broken by a famine and a civil war and immigration and all sorts of hardships..anyway, it did not die a natural death. It has been killed off to a great extent by snooty people. It is sad.

I for one would love to have a place to go where people would sing it's the same old shileleigh my father brought from Ireland, and who threw the overalls in Mrs. Murphy's chowder and gone are the days of the Kerry dancers and dear old Donegal....I don't even bother to go where they get people who say that's not what they sing in Ireland ...like, so???

It really insults our families and our ancestors when people do that. I take it very seriously. mg