UK Licensing - Contact your MP

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: GUEST,vectis at work
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 04:09 AM

My MP signed without a murmer, good lad, but he doubts that it will do much good.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 10:11 AM

Still only 50 names.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 01:26 PM

The following are the only Labour MPs to have so far signed this EDM.

Etherington, Bill
Gerrard, Neil
Jenkins, Brian
McDonnell, John
Simpson, Alan
Vis, Rudi

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 08:30 AM

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:Yfu8R_JAJlwJ:www.scottishpubs.co.uk/Aboutus/News/scotland-PR%2520Licensing%2520Reassurance%2520Final.pdf+Licensing+reform+Scotland+2007&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=uk

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 08:25 AM

Perhaps it would be easier to establish the names of those Scottish MPs (especially the many Labour ones representing Scottish seats) who spoke and voted against it?

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 04:38 AM

There has been no move from the Government or the Labour group in the Scottish Parliament to try anything like this. (It would be a devolved matter).

I signed an e-petition about this months ago.

Which Scottish MPs (if any) voted for this?

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 03:10 AM

Where it is true that this Act does not currently apply in Scotland - I am sure that our new Scottish Prime Minister in-waiting will soon be claiming his Government's Act to be such a success, that the momentum to impose it or similar measures in Scotland also, will prove to be unstoppable.

And the days of pedantic, 'I'm alright Jock' messages like these will end.

For the appeal for posters to contact their MP does apply equally to those living in Scotland - even when the legislation itself does not apply there.

For the major injustice here is that MPs in Scottish seats are equally responsible for voting for and inflicting legislation that does not apply in Scotland - upon the poor souls of England and Wales.

The point being that perhaps those living in one country whose elected members can inflict legislation on other countries without the risk of upsetting their own constituents - should not perhaps risk sounding quite so smug about living in a country that is doing fine without the rubbish legislation, that they are fortunate to avoid by living there.

So far.........................

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 08:54 PM

And yes, it is just as pedantic to post only to complain that having UK in the thread's title is not strictly accuarate as it is for those posters in the USA, Oz and elsewhere to post asking that UK is added to the title.....................

As they do.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 08:40 PM

It is not just pedantic to protest that this is ***NOT*** a "UK" act. It's for England and Wales. Nothing like this is in force in Scotland, or proposed for Scotland.

The point being that you don't have to look very far to find a country that's doing fine without it.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 08:27 PM

It seems to be stuck on 50.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 05:51 AM

50 names now.

http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=32810&SESSION=885

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: Folkiedave
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 12:20 PM

Tell all your friends and don't vote for him is the best remedy.

And after a while tell him you are doing it..........

It will probably not make much difference - since most constituencies (but not all) tend to go with the national swing........but it might give you some satisfaction.

Set up a website saying what a lazy ghit he is............

Tell the newspapers................

Go on radio phone ins...........

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: GUEST,Rob
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 11:20 AM

Problem is that my MP never replies to any letters I send him :-( which are mainly about there being too many stupid laws.

He shouldn't be allowed not to reply ...

Maybe there should be a law against MPs not replying to constituents correspondence ....

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 03:41 PM

46

http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=32810&SESSION=885

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 02:59 AM

So what alternatives are suggested by those who judge EDMs and petitions to be a waste of time?

The past EDMs and petitons HAVE made a big difference.

Not enough of one - which is why these new ones should be supported.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: GUEST,Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 11:38 PM

Anyone who knows anything about the workings of Parliament will know that Early Day Motions (EDMs) aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

The Motions are never debated in the House of Commons. They never have any hope at all of becoming law. They are completely ignored by the leaders of both main parties. They are just a publicity tool used by publicity-seeking MPs.

Hugo Swire is no fan of folk music. It is his own Conservative local authority here in Devon who cut all their funding to the Sidmouth Festival a couple of years ago and precipitated the funding crisis which the Festival is still having to recover from.

Mr. Swire did nothing to help then and anyone with a genuine interest in folk music should be very wary of his support now.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 08:49 PM

I agree Mr. Happy, But you still can't give up and let them think they've no opposition.

Don T.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: Mr Happy
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 11:46 AM

We went through all this a couple of years ago, petitions & so on.

Never made a blind bit of difference.

Democracy can't work against New Labour/Fascist indifference

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 04:43 PM

Thank you Roger, tho' a swift look at that thread would elicit the information that I have already responded to it.

I find myself on the horns of a dilemma, namely that I have information that might just possibly shake the useless sod out of his smug belief in Tony, and the Live Music Forum (spit, spit) and persuade him to sign the EDM, but I can't, out of respect for Andy's wishes, use it.

Ho Hum, I guess we'll have to forego the pleasure of using the bludgeon and look for something subtle. It won't be half as much fun, tho'.

Don T.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 08:13 AM

Nope, no sign of a change from mine, but after hearing today that Miskin Folk Festival is cancelled, due to heavy handed use of the new law by the local authority, he is about to receive a very angry communication from this constituent.

Don T.

The following thread is (now) about the late cancellation of this festival.

Miskin 2007

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 09:22 PM

You misunderstand - there is no offence involved in playing in a pub, for the people playing. It's the landlords who are under threat if they don't stop it happening where there's no licence covering it. They are subject to massive fines and can lose their licences.

Playing in the street without a licence would of course escape that problem. Theoretically they could probably come after us for some kind of breach of public order or whatever, but I suspect they wouldn't bother. Might be worth trying, when the weather is a bit better.

"I'll bet the new rules don"t apply to the Commons Bar !!!" True enough. But then virtually no rules apply inside a Commons Bar because it's in the Palace of Westminster and that means its exempt from just about everything, though I suppose murdering a fellow member would count as contempt of the House of Commons.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: bubblyrat
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 08:44 PM

I really don"t understand why everybody doesn"t just go ahead and do what they want, and stuff the consequences !! Are the government, the police, the local authorities, going to put tens of thousands of people in jail for having a sing-song in a pub ?? What jails ?? How many police will it take ?? The police won"t even come out if you"ve got armed robbers in your house --!! Does anyone REALLY think that the traitor and criminal, Tony Blair, is going to set up special hit-squads to deal with the menace of folk-singers in pubs ?? Of course not !! It is beyond belief that, in these troubled and uncertain times, the so-called "government " of this once great and respected nation, have got bugger-all better to legislate against than the possibility of a few simple souls singing the traditional music of their country in their village pubs !! I "ll bet the new rules don"t apply to the Commons Bar !!!

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 08:19 PM

Perhaps Jim Knight M.P. and others including local Councillors should be reminded that they are elected to represent their constituents, not the government of the day.

Colyn.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: bubblyrat
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 08:16 PM

Years ago, I was at the Naval Air Station at Brawdy, near St. Davids, in Wales . In those days, the pubs were all closed on Sundays, which didn"t bother us to be honest, as we had the NAAFI . Our attitude was " Bugger the miserable Welsh gits ! " , but eventually, commonsense prevailed, and Welsh Sundays became satisfyingly wet, but now----well, blow me down if the Cambrian Killjoys aren"t at it AGAIN !! No Miskin festival, because , let"s face it, the Welsh loathe the English , and , even worse, they hate themselves even more, so what better way to self-flagellate than to ban a popular festival ?? It would never happen in France !!

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 07:24 PM

Nope, no sign of a change from mine, but after hearing today that Miskin Folk Festival is cancelled, due to heavy handed use of the new law by the local authority, he is about to receive a very angry communication from this constituent.

Don T.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: BB
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 05:00 PM

Yep - had an e-mail confirming that he has. But 41 does seem a pretty poor show. It really does seem worth nagging them, with a reasonable argument.

Barbara

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 05:27 AM

Only 41 and I thought that more would sign yesterday, as most of them would have attended for the Budget.

Is your MP's name there yet?

http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=32810&SESSION=885

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 01:56 AM

39.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 01:53 AM

36 MPs have now signed.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: Folkiedave
Date: 19 Mar 07 - 03:53 AM

It is normally referred to as the "Payroll Vote".

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Mar 07 - 02:01 AM

There also seems to be convention that a way to prevent your own MPs from signing any EDM that may be critical of that Government - is by giving them all a token job as a junior minister...............

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 12:46 PM

There is a convention in Parliament that members of the government do not sign EDMs.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: Mr Happy
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 07:54 AM

As a member of the Government I cannot sign EDMs?

What's he mean?

He's an MP just like all the other MPs who are part of govt.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 06:15 AM

29 MPs have now signed.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Mar 07 - 05:55 AM

This is my letter to, and the reply from my MP.

10 March 2007

Dear Mr Knight

Could you please add your name to the following EDM?

EDM 1069
IMPACT OF THE LICENSING ACT 2003 ON SMALL-SCALE LIVE MUSIC
07.03.2007

Swire, Hugo
That this House expresses concern at the impact of the Licensing Act 2003 on small-scale live music after the abolition of the `two in a bar' rule; regrets the Government's handling of the implementation of the legislation and the additional costs created for local authorities and applicants; notes the petition signed by some 38,000 people on the Downing Street website on the burdens created by the Act on music and dance across the UK; and calls on the Government to acknowledge the errors in the legislation and take steps to ensure that the future of small-scale live music is not put at risk.

Roger

STOP PRESS.

In February 2007, The New Star in Fortuneswell applied and obtained Premise Licence Entertainment Permission for live music and indoor sports: as local authority advice was that this was a requirement of the Licensing Act 2003.

Despite that it would now be considered as legal and the new licensees ringing me and asking if the regular Wednesday session could restart - this is not going to happen. For since the Council's part in preventing it from continuing (without complaint) under the old legislation and from restarting (without complaint) under the new, the participants have made alternative arrangements - in Weymouth.

According to the Act - neither participatory music making nor indoor sports - when not intended for an audience or spectators is Regulated Entertainment. This is not the advice being provided by the Council's officers - to licensees and its elected members.

Could you write and point this out to Weymouth and Portland Borough Council? And the fact that the Act's Statutory Guidance requires the Local Statement of Licensing Policy to be revisited when this has been shown to have prevented a cultural activity, such as this session. I would be grateful if you could advise me of their response and of any other action you may decide is appropriate to record and address this situation locally and nationally.

Yours sincerely
---------------------------------------------------------------------

I6 March 2007

Dear Mr Gall

Thank you for your letter. I understand that this is an issue which has been causing concern for you. Of course it is very important to ensure that the changes within the Licensing Act (2003) are clear and that they do not harm small-scale live music.

As a member of the Government I cannot sign EDMs but I have written to Weymouth and Portland Borough Council and asked them to clarify the guidelines relating to licences for the form you refer to, and to check that the advice given complies with the Act.

I will keep you informed of their response.

With best wishes

Jim Knight
MP South Dorset

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 06:02 PM

Nope, seems the bugger's run out of guts again.

I had a reply from him basically rehashing the government spin, so it looks like he's turned his coat.

Hopefully he'll pay for it in lost votes. He certainly won't be getting mine

Don T.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: BB
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 02:19 PM

Apparently not. And I haven't even had a reply from him to my e-mail a few days ago. He's a Lib Dem, so perhaps he's feeling too guilty from when the legislation went through. We shall see...

Barbara

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 12:24 PM

Si far a total of 25 MPs have signed the EDM.

Is the name of your MP among them?

http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=32810&SESSION=885

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 09:15 AM

Sorry - that should read.

and that the Lib Dem peers did NOT fully exploit their all-powerful position.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 09:13 AM

The following thread charts the final blow-by-blow progress of the Bill becoming the Act.

The Licensing Act - the future

It makes interesting reading - as will see that there was much confusion at the time about what exactly the final concessions were.

It shows that certainly many Labour MPs were under the wrong impression that more was conceeded than actually was, and that the Lib Dem peers did fully exploit their all-powerful position.

had they stoos firm, at that point, the Government's side would have given them anything they demanded - rather than lose the Bill.

If only......................

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 08:52 AM

The guy from the Lords was Lord Reedsdale (a nice hornpipe) who seemed a good chap - leader of the revolt?

Leader of the revolt - I think not.

He and hs fellow Lib Dem Peers could have ensured that this unfortunate piece of ill-considered rubbish never became law.

They had argued against it and held up proceedings but by deciding to vote with the Governments' side at the final stage (but to still argue against it) - they were the ones that sold out all those who opposed this Bill and ensured that it did become law.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: GUEST,GUEST - Trevor Bennett
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 05:54 PM

The guy from the Lords was Lord Reedsdale (a nice hornpipe) who seemed a good chap - leader of the revolt? on Saturday Live. I emailed them: did they or any good lawyer know whether the Morris men could play in the pub afterwards? If the street corner, village green or pub car park doesn't need a licence for them to play/dance, perhaps they carry some sort of permission zone around with them; those too old or incapable of dancing could play nearby to them?

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 05:12 PM

This is not the first time that comment has been made bubblyrat.

The only problem is that it's the licensee who cops a packet for your rebellion, so you are unlikely to find many to host your battle.

Don T.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: bubblyrat
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 01:59 PM

The time has surely come for all folk musicians, morris dancers, traditional singers, cloggies, flat-footers,rappers,mollies, and mummers to TOTALLY IGNORE any inconveniences put upon them by the government of the criminal & traitor ,Tony Blair, and , basically, do as they bloody well please. !! If this government can"t find more important things to legislate upon, then God help us all !!

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: GUEST,North West Cloggers
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 10:27 PM

Recorded Morris Dancers anyone?

Or amplified!

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: danensis
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 12:10 PM

According tosome guy from the Lords who was on the radio yesterday morning the government were perfectly aware of what they were doing when they passed the bill. It was thrown out by the Lords three times, and on the fourth attempt they "did a deal" and offered Morris Dancing (but not Clog Dancing). The parliamentary draughtsmen suggested it would be difficult to separate the two, so it ended up as Morris Dancing was allowed, but acoustic music was not. Recorded Morris Dancers anyone?

John

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: Leadfingers
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 11:27 AM

I've put my Tuppence in !!

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 10:34 AM

Done!

My MP was a signatory to the last one, but didn't have the balls to vote against the whip when the chips were down. And him an ex Morrisman. Still of course, his lot got an exemption.

I hope he has more commitment this time, but don't hold yer breff.

Don T.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 05:51 AM

This was the response to the last one. At least all those MPs who signed that one should be prepared to sign the new one.

Commons Early Day Motion 331

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 07:34 PM

UK Licensing Act - Another petition

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 03:34 PM

Quite surprised there's not more chat about this seeing as how so many have signed the petition.

This is MUCH more likely to deliver change than the petition ever could on its own.

The government can ignore a petition, but they can't ignore an early day motion.

C'mon folks - it's what your MP's for!

Tom

Subject: RE: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 11:54 AM

Well posted. Done.
Tom

Subject: UK Licensing - Contact your MP
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 06:00 AM

The following from Hamish Birchall

Please circulate

Hugo Swire, Conservative MP for East Devon, and Shadow Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, has tabled an Early Day Motion expressing concern about the impact of the Licensing Act 2003 on small-scale live music:
http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=32810&SESSION=885

The main purpose of EDMs is to draw attention to an issue, and to gain support by inviting other MPs to add their signatures. More on EDMs here: http://edmi.parliament.uk/edmi/

If enough MPs sign EDMs can be effective in raising the Parliamentary and media profile of an issue. This EDM is well timed, as in the next few weeks the government will consider proposals from the Live Music Forum to improve the Licensing Act.

Please consider asking your MP to sign. You can send a message to your MP here (the site can identify your MP from your postcode): www.writetothem.com

It is important to use your own words, but some of these points may help:

* The most recent DCMS/MORI research found that 40% of smaller venues have lost any automatic entitlement to live music as a result of the new Licensing Act ('Licensing Act 2003 - The Experience of Smaller Establishments in applying for live music authorisation', December 2006').

* There is uncertainty about the status of the 60% of smaller venues said to have live music authorisation. DCMS do not know whether live music licence conditions, where they apply, have been implemented. Unless such conditions are implemented by the venue, having live music remains illegal.

* Under the old regime 100% of bars and restaurants licensed to sell alcohol could automatically provide one or two musicians.

* In the changeover to the new regime, all such venues were automatically granted permission to play recorded music, which also allows the provision of DJs.

* The provision of big screen broadcast sport or music is exempt, anywhere, no matter how powerfully amplified.

* The government has never provided any evidence that live music causes significant social harm, nor any evidence that live music is a greater risk as an entertainment than big screen sport in bars.

---

Subject: Licensing - Lib Dems demand action
From: GUEST,Roger Gall former mudcatter

Date: 13 Jun 07 - 05:56 AM

The following from Hamish Birchall

The following press release was issued by the Liberal Democrats yesterday, Tuesday 12 June 2007:

OVER 79,000 PEOPLE SAY GOVERNMENT MUST LOOK AGAIN AT LIVE MUSIC - FOSTER

The Government must re-examine licensing regulations in the light of public concern over the damage current laws are having on live music.

Commenting after an e-petition on the Downing Street website on the impact of the 2003 Licensing Act closed with over 79,000 signatures, Liberal Democrat Shadow Culture, Media and Sport Secretary, Don Foster MP said:

'The sheer scale of this petition shows the depth of public concern on the impact that these regulations are having on live music.

'Live music in a pub is an essential part of Britain's musical heritage so why something as innocuous as providing a piano in a bar should be deemed an offence is beyond me.

'The Government claims that there has been no effect on the industry but their own research shows that 40% of smaller venues have lost any automatic entitlement to provide live music.

'The Government must take note of people's concerns and seek to help the industry grow by repealing such bureaucratic legislation.'

ENDS

Notes to Editors

1. Downing Street petition text:

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to recognise that music and dance should not be restricted by burdensome licensing regulations. The recently introduced changes in licensing law have produced an environment where music and dance, activities which should be valued and promoted in a civilised society, are instead damaged by inappropriate regulation. We call on the Prime Minister to recognise this situation and take steps to correct it.


http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/licensing/

2. DCMS and the Association of Live Music Forum commissioned MORI research into the impact of the Act revealed that, following the Licensing Act, 40% of smaller venues lost any automatic entitlement to provide live music. In order to do so these venues are now forced to apply for a Temporary Event Notice (TEN), costing £21, up to a maximum of 12 per year for each venue:

6.1.1. The proportion of establishments which now have a Premises Licence permitting them to stage live music is not significantly larger than the proportions of establishments which previously put on live music events, either with a PEL or through some other form of authorisation. Very few establishments that wanted a new licence were denied it, and many who were previously limited to 2-in-a-bar now have the ability to stage music with 2 or more musicians27

6.1.2. This contrasts, of course, with the fact that 40% of establishments now have no automatic means of putting on live music (i.e. they would have to give a TEN). Whether this is problematic is debatable: these establishments have tended to indicate a lack of suitability or local demand for putting on live music - so we might expect the negative impact from this to be minimal.'



"Licensing Act 2003: The experience of smaller venues in applying for live music authorisation"
Ipsos-MORI - DCMS
December 2006

3. The provision of a piano in a bar could be deemed an offence under the terms of the Licensing Act 2003 as a provision of 'unlicensed entertainment facilities'.

4. Liberal Democrat 2005 Manifesto pledge:

We believe artists must have the freedom to create, not just teach others, and that the arts must be free from excessive Government interference. The Liberal Democrats would: allow live music to flourish by reducing the currently overly bureaucratic requirements for licences for small venues while strengthening local authorities' powers over noise, disturbance and safety to prevent public nuisance.

5. The definition of 'incidental music', which continues to be exempt under the Licensing Act, is also unclear. Some councils require, for example, hospitals to be licensed to provide live music to entertain their patients, whilst hospitals in a neighbouring borough are free to do so without a license.

Contact: Sean Kemp, Print Media Manager, Liberal Democrats
Office: 020 7227 1240
Mobile: [phone] ... Out of Hours: 020 7340 4949

---

http://www.musiciansunion.org.uk/site/cms/v4_newsArticleView.asp?article=716

The following from the above.

Licensing Act - statement of Union policy
Date: 11th June 2007

MU confirms position on impact of the Licensing Act 2003
& Licensing Act 2003 - MU statement (pdf download)

The Musicians' Union has produced a comprehensive report and outline of Union policy on the Licensing Act 2003 in advance of the publication of the Live Music Forum's Report (LMF) into the legislation.

The Union's statement makes it clear that despite the acknowledged improvements, particularly for large and medium music venues when the current regulatory system is compared to the old PEL system, it remains hard to imagine many circumstances when the principal objectives of the Act would be breached or compromised by the performance of live music.

After extensive monitoring, research and internal discussion, the Musicians' Union is still of the opinion that the inclusion of regulated entertainment in the Licensing Act is unnecessary, and at the first opportunity it will campaign for its removal from the prevailing legislation. However, the Musicians' Union acknowledges that an opportunity to comprehensively revise the Act is not likely to occur for a number of years, therefore the Union is making the following recommendations which represent a constructive way forward that will enable the Dept for Culture, Media & Sport to deliver what numerous government Ministers have promised - that the Act will be good for live music and encourage its growth.

MU General Secretary John Smith outlines the Union's stance:
""The Musicians' Union has worked hard to secure the best possible position for our members during the run up to, and following the implementation of, the Licensing Act 2003. To this end we produced our Live Music Kit in order to encourage establishments to put on live music events and have taken a leading role on the Government's Live Music Forum. This was set up by the Secretary of State to monitor the impact of the Act on the provision of live music and to make recommendations to government on how to encourage its growth.

Our opinion of this method of licensing entertainment remains, however, as it was prior to the introduction of the new licensing regime; namely that live music does not pose a threat to law and order and should not be licensed in this manner. We have offered five recommendations which, if implemented, could make all the difference and even lead us to changing our minds. These are made in the spirit of co-operation and we hope that the Secretary of State will accept them and so ensure that the Licensing Act is indeed a music friendly Act."

To access the full statement, including the Musician Union's detailed recommendations, the background to the 2003 Act and the organisation's activity since its implementation, please visit www.musiciansunion.org.uk

---

The following from Hamish Birchall.

The Live Music Forum is recommending 'as a matter of some urgency' an amendment to the Licensing Act which would exempt gigs attracting fewer than 100 people.

However, a leaked copy of the latest draft of the LMF report to ministers reveals that this key recommendation, one of 28, is opposed by LACORS (Local Authorities Coordinators of Regulatory Services), a body represented on the LMF. In all, LACORS is 'unable to support' five of the recommendations, including a proposed exemption for unamplified live music, and the creation of a mechanism, presumably within the Act, that would allow a member of the public to make representations in support of a live music application. LACORS appears to be the only LMF objector to any of the report's recommendations.

The report also repeats the view that the Act has had a 'broadly neutral impact on the provision of live music', and claims that the 'industry' is positive about standardised licence fees and Temporary Events Notices. However it adds: '... it is also true to say that the Licensing Act has not led to the promised increase in live music...', and '... we view with some scepticism any belief that the Act will in itself lead to a growth in live music.'

This echoes yesterday's surprisingly forthright press release by the Musicians Union which, contrary to the headline, represents a sharp change of direction, if not a long overdue U-turn:
http://www.musiciansunion.org.uk/site/cms/v4_newsArticleView.asp?article=716

In their full licensing policy statement, the MU concludes:

'After extensive monitoring, research and internal discussion the Musicians' Union is still of the opinion that the inclusion of regulated entertainment in the Licensing Act is unnecessary, and at the first opportunity it will campaign for its removal from the prevailing licensing legislation.'

['Licensing Act - Statement of Union Policy', 11 June 2007]
http://mu.live.fishertechnology.co.uk/site/cms/contentDocumentView.asp?documentId=738

In fact, the Union's 'live music kit', first published in 2004 as a guide for prospective gig promoters, claimed that live music application under the new regime was as easy as 1, 2, 3 and that there would be no extra cost for live music. Only last year, MU officials corresponding with trumpeter Henry Lowther over the loss of his gigs at a Regent's Park venue, implied that a 3-performer limit imposed as a licence condition by Westminster City Council was for performers' safety, and therefore beyond criticism. It later emerged that it was an ill-conceived noise condition and nothing to do with safety, which is in any case separately regulated as the MU now appears to accept.

While yesterday's MU welcome press release acknowledges that it may be some years before the Act may be substantially overhauled, it makes a number of recommendations '...which represent a constructive way forward that will enable the Dept for Culture, Media & Sport to deliver what numerous government Ministers have promised - that the Act will be good for live music and encourage its growth.' These include an exemption for venues up to 100 capacity.

Last but not least, yesterday the petition opposing the music and dance provisions of the Licensing Act, number 1 on the Number 10 website since 01 May, closed with nearly 80,000 signatures:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/licensing/

The question is now whether the government favours LACORS over the LMF, MU and public opinion.