BS: Roundabouts

28 Mar 07 - 08:17 PM (#2010102)
Subject: BS: Roundabouts
From: Ref

In my area (US) there is a great hue and cry about putting in roundabouts to replace signaled intersections. The local zealots are all atwitter that roundabouts don't need signals and will keep rush hour traffic moving. Having travelled a bit in Commonwealth countries, I recall encountering a lot of roundabouts with signals added to them, precisely because they DON'T handle high volume traffic well. Any thoughts on this from our British brethren and sistern? Am I wrong on this?

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28 Mar 07 - 09:31 PM (#2010167)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: The Fooles Troupe

"roundabouts AKA culdesacs"

Maybe in your part of the world ...

'cul de sacs' are dead end streets with a circular turnaround.

'roundabouts' are circular roads with several entrances/exits - depending on the size, they cam be more or less effective at 'controlling traffic'. The small ones, such that buses can just drive straight of the centre bit - tend to be not only useless but killers, so that many of them locally which replaced traffic lights, have been replaced by traffic lights again!

"I like traffic lights
I like traffic lights
I like traffic lights
I like traffic lights"

Sorry...

The very large ones are actually useful - but basically can be 'Dodgem City' cause Idiots Rule!

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28 Mar 07 - 09:48 PM (#2010177)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: gnu

Hehehehe. Cute, lads!

Roundabouts are the devil's own invention. Such might work in Paris or London or Rome this very day... BUT, I suggest to you that they do so IN SPITE of their inherent nature of evil. I submit to you the hypothosis thusly... The roundabouts in Paris and London and Rome "appear" to work well because they have been in existance for a long time AND, everyone knows the the guy on the right has the right of way ...... BUT, we are talking about North America where the bigger vehicle has the right of way. Here in the land of "My truck's bigger'n yers.", that can be a problem.

I am serious. I'm not only a transportation engieer, I am a redneck with an old, scratched up, pickup truck. NNWW!!

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28 Mar 07 - 09:51 PM (#2010179)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: Sorcha

Bloody roundabouts!!! I HATES 'em!

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28 Mar 07 - 10:11 PM (#2010196)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: Rapparee

They're the latest highway engineering fad! We have three or four here; Chubbuck (just across the street from Pocatello) put one in because Pocatello had one!

Pocatello's is in a shopping area and fairly large; Chubbuck's is on a well-traveled street and is small with a pyramidal center. A few months ago a local lad, somewhat the worse for the beer, managed to hang his Honda Civic up on the top of the pyramid....

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28 Mar 07 - 10:15 PM (#2010200)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: Bill D

The Wash DC area has a number of them....they range from simple and helpful to complex, dangerous, confusing tests of will and daring.
Sadly, there are few alternatives to most of them, since the city was laid out with many complex intersections. If we didn't have so many visitors, 'important' bureaucrats and 'ethnic' taxi drivers from countries where dodging thru mazes in vehicles is considered a sport, it might be easier.

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28 Mar 07 - 10:17 PM (#2010204)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: Ref

I'm asking about roundabouts AKA traffic circles. I have never heard of a cul-de-sac being called a roundabout.

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28 Mar 07 - 10:23 PM (#2010208)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: leeneia

I hate them. People driving too close together, moving sideways in unpredictable directions, going too fast for conditions, and nobody signallng.

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28 Mar 07 - 10:36 PM (#2010220)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: frogprince

I have just a little experience with them, on trips to New England. I really hope they don't become widespread. If you're familiar with the particular one, and the way you want to go through it, no big deal. If you come to an unfamiliar one, in the midst of heavy traffic, how in hell does anyone think everyone can keep safe track of the traffic around him, and sort out his own routing through the thing, at the same time?

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28 Mar 07 - 10:53 PM (#2010231)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: bobad

That's the beauty of it, you just keep going around and around until you figure it out.

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28 Mar 07 - 11:58 PM (#2010259)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: michaelr

You think those things are dodgy here in America, try negotiating them while driving on the left! I had some scares, and one very close call, in Ireland last year.

It's hard to read the directional signs and watch the other cars' signals at the same time. I noticed that there were signals at many roundabouts in Europe.

Cheers,
Michael

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29 Mar 07 - 12:21 AM (#2010271)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: katlaughing

I became used to them while living in New England, but I did not like them. In the more populated areas they just seemed a worse way for the maniacs to drive like idiots.

We have one which works well, here. They are getting ready to put in a few more. I don't think they are a good idea. If you can imagine, the worst one we have is a gigantic thing stretching from one exit ramp to the other on I70, four lanes of traffic, two lanes each for each exit ramp, all of them converging on a super-duper, super-confusing roundabout/traffic circle above all of that traffic whizzing by below on the highway. Most of the folks getting on or off are not familiar with the area and are going over 70 when they hit the exit ramps. We've already had one semi turn over. It is crazy and we avoid it like the plague.

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29 Mar 07 - 12:49 AM (#2010291)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: Gurney

I like roundabouts better than the alternative traffic lights, because most of the while traffic is moving. I was brought up with them, so they are normal to me, but as traffic volumes rise and immigrants from traffic-light-only countries dither, they become less and less safe. However, with traffic lights a similar volume of traffic seems to me to move slower, especially when the lights are close together, and not well co-ordinated. After all, with roundabouts SOMEONE is moving.

Roundabouts MUST be large, wide, purpose-designed, have a limited number of exits well spaced, and have good visibility on the approaches, of the other motorists already on the island. Judgement of your approach is important.

They are not good when they are 'aftermarket,' too small, too many approaches, and have poor visibility.

They work perfectly during power cuts.

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29 Mar 07 - 03:40 AM (#2010348)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: John MacKenzie

Roundabouts? Read this and weep ¦¬]
Giok

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29 Mar 07 - 05:35 AM (#2010408)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: The Fooles Troupe

Actually, I think they are magic!







Boing! Said Zebidee!

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29 Mar 07 - 06:54 AM (#2010443)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: gnu

Oh... by the way. Here, we have snow and ice a wee bit more often. Great for the autobody shops.

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29 Mar 07 - 07:03 AM (#2010451)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: The Fooles Troupe

I used to have a girlfriend who had an autobody

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29 Mar 07 - 07:10 AM (#2010458)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: Bee

I once had the pleasure of showing around a visiting Scot, who had rented a car for his tour. He was in a state of fear already with the driving on the right side of the highway - then we came to a roundabout (or rotary). I thought the poor man was going to have heart failure before we made it through.

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29 Mar 07 - 08:11 AM (#2010501)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: Mr Red

I just added a comment to the Wiki above about the Silly Isles in Rushall

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29 Mar 07 - 11:30 AM (#2010728)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: autolycus

Rounabouts work o.k. in u.k. when the quantity of traffic on the two roads are similar. When they are not,the traffic on the lower-volume traffic road get a raw deal.

   

   I just love it at mini-roundabouts when there are drivers at each roundabout entrance simultneously. In England,everyone waits for everyone,usually. A great entertainment for cyclists.

   Also entertaining are those drivers ready to drive onto the roundabout who just sit there waiting for...........I wish I knew what;certainly nothing obvious. (Permission? No drivers for miles?)






      I.

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29 Mar 07 - 11:54 AM (#2010765)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: John MacKenzie

That's like people waiting at pedestrian crossings waiting for a car to stop and let them across; when the road's completely devoid of traffic!
Don't laugh, I've seen it happen!
G

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29 Mar 07 - 12:41 PM (#2010810)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: Rapparee

Get used to them...as I said earlier, they're the latest fad.

Five years from now we'll spend millions to replace them with traffic lights....

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29 Mar 07 - 03:12 PM (#2010976)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: katlaughing

This isn't the one I wrote about, but it is similar, up by Vail: Click Here.

HERE is another one. The larger circle of cemented gravel around the grass has only a small lip and can be very confusing at night or in a storm. A lot of people have driven up on them knocking their tires out of alignment.

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29 Mar 07 - 06:45 PM (#2011155)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: RangerSteve

New Jersey was trying to replace theirs a few years back. At the one that I regularly travel, traffic improved when it was replaced by an intersection. They're ok if traffic is light, but when it's heavy, they're a mess.

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29 Mar 07 - 06:51 PM (#2011161)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: Becca72

Here in Southern Maine we even have a new shopping complex with a rotary in the parking lot...bloody stupid idea if you ask me.

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29 Mar 07 - 06:54 PM (#2011164)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: The Fooles Troupe

Actually RangerSteve - that's very true for small ones - but the larger ones work better for denser traffic - ones over 100 meters in diameter seem to work better with heavier traffic.

But multi-lane ones seem to always be a nightmare due to idiots,,,

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29 Mar 07 - 08:01 PM (#2011208)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: Bill D

For those who have never driven in Washington DC...take a look at Dupont Circle.
(BTW- this pic must have been taken on a Sunday morning, as 84% of the vehicles are missing!)
Yes, it has 2 circles, one inside the other, 2 lanes each, with 9 openings, 4 of which are divided lanes. To do some maneuvers, it is necessary to find the right spot to switch from the inner circle to the outer while going around, and there are several traffic lights within the circle(s), plus lights at each place one enters the circle.....and many taxis and busses, each of which KNOWS it has the right of way and does not need to pay a lot of attention to either the lights or YOU....whether driving or on foot.

The ony saving grace is that one street, (the one going from 10 o'clock to 4 o'clock) 'can' use an underpass for thru traffic...but if you get in the right-hand lane, you miss that and have to negotiate the circle.

....and though it is the most complex, it is not really the worst. I think Washington Circle and Thomas Circle are worse...with Chevy Chase circle not far behind because of the speed and multiple lanes.

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29 Mar 07 - 11:04 PM (#2011343)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: Ron Davies

But the question is--are traffic circles the same as roundabouts? I've seen many roundabouts in the UK--particularly the smaller ones-- which do not look to me like what we would call "traffic circles" in the US. Jan is adamant in saying that roundabouts, at many intersections in the US, would save time. Is it not possible that US drivers could learn to navigate them----without the "survival of the meanest vehicle and/or driver" attitude referred to earlier?

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29 Mar 07 - 11:25 PM (#2011359)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: frogprince

You don't have to be playing "survival of the meanest" to get in an accident when you're in heavy traffic, you have to do something , and you have no time to figure out what . I'll gladly spend a few moments at a traffic light rather than get a bleeding ulcer.

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30 Mar 07 - 12:34 AM (#2011398)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: GUEST

...moving sideways in unpredictable directions...

There's nothing unpredicable about 'YIELD TO TRAFFIC ON THE ROUNDABOUT'.

Except for Americans of course.

They really simplify the road junction by reducing the number of possible interactions.

You only get two lanes (or directions) of traffic meeting whereas at a light you usually get three or more.


The problem that Autolycus mentions is very true, especially at rush hour, that's why some roundabouts have lights as well.

Cookieless bert.

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30 Mar 07 - 02:42 PM (#2012006)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: Mrs.Duck

We used to have a roundabout in the centre of our town but at rush hours the traffic tailed back about half a mile so they replaced it with a traffic lit junction and now it tails back over a mile and you even have to wait in the middle of the night when noone else is on the road! In general I prefer roundabouts at large junctions as long as some idiot doesn't introduce trafic lights on them too. The roundabouts I detest are the silly ones painted on the road at small junctions where it is almost impossible for anything bigger than a mini to turn round and can be lethal on a motor bike (so I'm told). Used correctly a roundabout keeps traffic moving whereas by definition lights stop them.

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30 Mar 07 - 04:08 PM (#2012067)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: John Hardly

Buy stock in motion sickness bags and dramamine.

The subject as only the mudcat can cover it.

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31 Mar 07 - 04:33 AM (#2012429)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: Gurney

Mrs. Duck at 2.42 has it right. Traffic lights are slower.

People who have never driven on a roundabout do seem to find them extra confusing, though. My wife was driving around one last year when the driver in front (gender and origin withheld) missed her exit, stopped, and reversed back past two exits! Fortunately, there was good visibility on the roundabout, and no accidents ensued.
The wife says it was fairly busy, but she had just been to her mindreading class.
I always wondered how come she was that step ahead!

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31 Mar 07 - 07:20 AM (#2012499)
Subject: RE: BS: Roundabouts
From: kendall

The way the price of gasoline is going, we won't have to worry about roundabouts or intersections. Pedestrians don't need either. It's just under $4.00 a gallon out there now. Stand by for a ram!

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