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31 Mar 99 - 11:17 AM (#67075) Subject: Mudcat Commercial From: bill\sables Just an idea, but I was thinking about the Book and C.D. threads and about the Tee Shirts and was wondering if it was possable for mudcat to create a commercial link where these items could be bought.There must be mudcatters who have music shops who could advertise discounted strings etc., Even advertise their own C.D.s or Tapes or song books, Instrument makers could plug their products also. If anyone was selling an instrument that too could be advertised. There could be a small fee for adverts going to Mudcat for the production of books etc. I personally make carved leather instrument straps and would be pleased to give 25% of my fee to Mudcat. What are your ideas, Cheers Bill |
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31 Mar 99 - 11:23 AM (#67076) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: Big Mick Great idea, Bill. And drop me an email at mlane@accn.org and give me an idea of cost for a couple of guitar straps with celtic art, Book of Kells type stuff, carved into them. I have always been interested in having a couple of these done. Mick |
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31 Mar 99 - 12:23 PM (#67088) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: Sam Pirt (Again!!) Bill I think its a great idea, it will give mudcat a whole new force, as if it isn't big enough!! Great idea!! Bye, Sam |
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31 Mar 99 - 01:11 PM (#67097) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: AllisonA(Animaterra) Hey, billsables- me, too, I'd like more info on your guitar straps! aac@monad.net Allison |
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31 Mar 99 - 01:39 PM (#67099) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: Night Owl Yesssss!!!!! Great idea!!! |
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31 Mar 99 - 01:51 PM (#67101) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: katlaughing Great idea! Max? |
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31 Mar 99 - 02:04 PM (#67106) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: Vixen Dear Mudcats-- I've got several things to say about "mudcat commercial." 1) I'm in favor of supporting and promoting our own. We can use each others' products, we can listen to each others' music, etc. all very good. 2) We can raise funds for things like bumper stickers, tee shirts, books, etc...also very good 3) We can "spread the word" about what "mudcat music" is about, and establish a larger presence in the global community...also good. 4) Once we start handling money, however, we need to follow all sorts of regulations regarding our "organization," which at this point seems to me nonexistent. My questions are, then, does www.mudcat.org have the type of organization to support a commercial venture? Would a commercial venture change the essential nature of the mudcat in a way that would please/benefit most of the mudcats? Just looking twice before I leap on the band wagon... V |
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31 Mar 99 - 02:18 PM (#67107) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: Night Owl Awww,s**t, the voice of REASON..well thought out! |
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31 Mar 99 - 04:11 PM (#67126) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: katlaughing Good points, Vixen. I'd also thought about how much do we want to promote the Mudcat? This was discussed in an earlier thread I can't remember the name of and I mentioned it on the book thread, even though I'd love to do the book. If we promote it a lot are we prepared to give up the uniqueness of our community; to be inundated, possibly, by a myriad of real and/or wannabe folkies? I think it is great to spread the word and to support one another's efforts with links or whatever and would be happy to share any proceeds. But, and remember, I still want to do a book!, I have visions of all of us having to take refuge in a special Oldtimer's Lounge, set aside for those of us who have been here before any landslide of publicity made it a madhouse of postings and threads and hard to find one another in. Right now, I float in and out of threads, one step behind one of my favourites or two steps ahead of and it is fun. What will a great deal of promotion do to that? Or. am I imaging grandeur where there is only a molehill? Just thoughts, katlaughing |
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31 Mar 99 - 05:44 PM (#67142) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: LEJ Kat...I think of it as a Grand Molehill :} |
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31 Mar 99 - 05:47 PM (#67143) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: Mikal Hmmmmmmm. A Mudcat commercial selling point? Not a really good idea. Not unless we know someone who really loves doing all the number crunching and grunt work, filining of taxes, (EEEEP! Nasty Government concept!) and trying to make the books balance at the end of every week/quarter/year. However, what if folks just start threads advertising something in need of a home? Like "adopt my tape, it is lonely in it's little box..." Or I happen to have a Martin needing to see another part of the world..."? Come to think of it, that could also be verbotten, if the ISP involved does not allow it. (My own does not allow any selling on line. Pity, I need to give up the old Washburn mandolin...Woops, was that offering something for sale???? Mikal |
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31 Mar 99 - 07:33 PM (#67172) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: Ted from Australia Bill, a good idea I would suggest ; That the commercial site could be in the form of a "for sale and wanted to buy" link to a page set up by/for Micale's number crunching Mudcat commercial type (If he/she exists out there) This would satisfy V's doubts abot cluttering up the 'Cat. Or, externally one could look into commission deals offered some of the existing commercial sites like utrade.com or Amazon.com where a link is set up and a commission paid (we already have such a links which pops up when you search the DT)( Amazon is scary in its efficency) Taxes and regulations etc could be avoided by siting the page in the Cayman Islands or similar Taxes and regulations etc could be avoided by siting the page in the Cayman Islands or similar
Kat, I have been thinking of an "Old Folkies Home" in OZ for ages.
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31 Mar 99 - 07:39 PM (#67175) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: Ted from Australia abot?
and yes"
I relly must hone my tying and proofreading skiills ;-) |
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31 Mar 99 - 11:23 PM (#67220) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: Big Mick Right.............but I still want the information on the guitar straps. :-)) Mick |
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01 Apr 99 - 05:29 AM (#67267) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: reggie miles I found out about this site via a small catalog put together by the public library (Sno-Isle) here in Sultan, WA. So I think you can kiss the idea of this place being relatively unknown goodbye. In no time there will be vast hords of Sultaneese, or Sultanians, or Sultanites or whatever it is they call themselves, invading the Mudcat just like I did. Yes, soon one by one they'll line up to get their chance at the only free computer access and internet connection available in town. Each with up to an hour a day to spend pawing through its threads, posting frivolous thoughtless posts, asking the same questions over and over and over and over and over again. Pushing your sanity to the very brink! Something has to be done quickly before it's too late. Head 'em off at the past! Oh the humanity! Hopelessly trapped just beyond the event horizon of the known universe here in Snakebutt Reggie |
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01 Apr 99 - 06:59 AM (#67274) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: Steve Parkes "Sultana" should be a currant favourite! |
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01 Apr 99 - 08:25 AM (#67280) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: Vixen Dear Mudcats-- I hope my post didn't sound as if I don't want new folks on 'd'cat, or that I'm not in favor of commercial development of our resources. I just wanted to get a feel for how such a venture would change 'd'cat as we know it, and how we all feel about those kind of changes. I'm interested in the guitar straps also, and straps for mandolin and (should I say this here?) banjo. And I think an instrument swap-shop would be terrific. I'm looking for a good quality flute, cheap. My point is this--a commercial 'cat would be a cool thing, useful to all of us. But it would come at a price, and I think we have to be aware of that price, and plan accordingly for developing a commercial enterprise. my $0.02. for what it's worth. mileage, as they say, may vary. V |
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01 Apr 99 - 10:23 AM (#67300) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: bill\sables MayI say I did not intend this thread to be a commercial for guitar straps but rather an idea for a shop window for catters to either swap or sell unwanted musical items and donate a percentage to Mudcat to help this wonderful community to develop further. As I have had some enquieries for straps I fully intend to donate 25% of the cost to mudcat for whatever purpose they think fit. Cheers Bill |
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01 Apr 99 - 01:43 PM (#67346) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: Max Well, you all have seemed to know what we're up to. It was supposed to be a surprise. In two weeks or so we will have online the Mudcat Record Collection, made up a few indy labels such as Sandy and Caroline Patton's Folk Legacy, Wally MacNow's Camsco Records, possibly UlsterSongs, so far well over a thousand records. We are also working on a Mudcat auction for all of us to trade our goods. We are also planning new t-shirts, etc. As far as the number crunching goes, I own Onstage and do it enough there so I am quite used to and comfortable with the concept. We have been working on this for over a month already and what is taking the most time is the logistics of shipping and regulations about tariffs and sales tax, as well as the legalities of selling. We have consulted lawyers and done the research and are getting mighty close. I was going to start a thread exactly like this as soon and we unveiled the record collection to get Mudcateers input, records, junk in the attic, handmade stuff, etc. Anyhow, The goal is the raise money while providing a valuable service. I don't want to just sell stuff, I want to provide a resource for finding things that are not available (at least easily available) elseware. I don;t know where to get a hand made guitar strap right now, so a fitting beginning to this thread. Some of the records in our collection will be previously unavailable in the US, or outside the US. We are also going to start a Mudcat Auction. Most of us are musicians, and most of us have a dozen instruments. I am sure we will have plenty to swap. I am being very cautious not to let any commercialism destroy what we have here. I think I got it all figured out and will listen very carefully to your opinions etc. as I always have on the Mudcat. If we could get any kind of income, we could really enhance the Mudcat. We have so many ideas and needs for the Mudcat and just can't afford the time and money needed to do any of it. We have a great community here, and I want it to continue and grow. The Mudcat is a non-profit Pennsylvania corporation under the name Mudcat Cafe Music Foundation. We are legit. Our non-profit status will keep us out of trouble with copyrights and taxes. We are prepared for the masses as well. We have developed technology to prevent redundancy. Every time someone starts a thread, if the thread is like any other, the user will be prompted and shown that maybe these already existing threads already have the answer or are similar enough to be posted in rather than a new thread. We also have new systems of organization planned that will serve to ease the finding of things. Point is, I will never let the Mudcat lose it's homey feel. I promise. We're just a couple of weeks away, so hold on to your hats. I will start a thread when we are ready to officially discuss these concepts. |
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01 Apr 99 - 03:31 PM (#67383) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: AllisonA(Animaterra) Hey, wait a minute- you sound as though the 'Cat still has nine lives! How does your other thread (closing doors) affect this thread? Or is my hope being realized and the other one is just a terrible joke? Allison |
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01 Apr 99 - 04:40 PM (#67396) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: Sam Hudson I have one of Bill Sables guitar straps (Bill, my wife commissioned it at Whitby a couple of years ago and I love it to pieces!) and can recommend them to anybody. And the idea in general sounds excellent. |
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01 Apr 99 - 04:59 PM (#67402) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: Alice Max, this is a great idea for one-stop-shopping at the Mudcat. Being able to find music related items right here at our favorite website is wonderful... thanks for being so creative and for continuing to grow. We discussed a bibliography of songbooks in a long-ago thread. I know you have Amazon.com and B&N, but if we could find the time to make lists of favorite songbook titles and authors, it would be helpful for searching for books. Maybe I'll start a thread on that, or revive the old one if I can find it. alice |
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02 Apr 99 - 11:29 AM (#67568) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: Margo How about if recording mudcatters make mention of the mudcat on the back cover of the CD? |
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02 Apr 99 - 12:36 PM (#67591) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: reggie miles Max, You sound as if you have the situation well in hand (like Mighty Mouse). Thanks for all your efforts. Sounds like a monumental task. I have a question. How are the recordings selected that are in the Mudcat Collection? Can anyone be included or is there a criteria that has to be met? Or am I asking once again premature questions before you're ready to answer? Reggie Miles |
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02 Apr 99 - 01:31 PM (#67611) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: Max First we wanted to get small labels. We were interested in supporting those who choose their records because they are genuine folk or blues or other eclectic music, not because they would sell. We want to offer things that are not easy to find, so that is was not jsut a commercial endevor but also a useful service for our Mudcaters. We used Folk Legacy and Camsco to get started and create the foundation of what turned out to be a rather complicated technology and logistics system, which we are very close to now. Once that is up (2 weeks or so) the process of adding new will be a breeze. I have also been keeping track of all the Mudcaters with albums and will soon be contacting all of them. Their records will stand out of the collection because they are mudcaters. Also I will announce this further to get more mudcatters music. We will be contacting many more small and foreign labels as soon as we get this up. In essence, there really is no criterea, and we are not limited to music. Books and other stuff will fit in our system too. After this is functioning, I will start on the Mudcat Auction to allow mudcaters to trade goods between them. The only requirement that we have for any and all of this is that we get a cut. The auction will be a fixed percentage (not yet decided upon) and the musicians and indy labels will have to be individually negotiated. Now, I think 15% is a generally acceptable starting point, but I will have to think more about that. It costs about 3% to process credit cards so you see our cut is cut into. Also with labels and musicians, we want them to do the shipping, called a drop-ship. This saves us overhead and we really can't afford an inventory. |
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02 Apr 99 - 11:15 PM (#67746) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: Night Owl Exciting information!!!!!!Wondering...with the percentage you're trying to determine,...if a folk musician gets rich (contradiction in terms!) and wishes to "donate" more than your percentage...would they be free to do so????(Also wondering if you happen to know where I could get a handmade leather guitar strap and the price range?) |
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03 Apr 99 - 01:48 AM (#67782) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: Night Owl dumb-dumb! Just got my questions answered by clicking on "Help Support the Mudcat" !! |
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03 Apr 99 - 04:56 AM (#67802) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: reggie miles Thanks Max, I have some recordings and this sounds like a nice opportunity. Reggie Miles |
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05 Apr 99 - 06:27 AM (#68222) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: AlistairUK You know, I used to subscribe to Folk Roots (which is now called Froots for some obscure reason) when it was a little fan magazine called Southern Rag. Then it started to get bigger and bigger and bigger and then...it lost it's soul. Please don't do this to the Cat. :~o( |
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05 Apr 99 - 06:57 AM (#68227) Subject: RE: Mudcat Commercial From: Ferrara Keeping the 'Cat from losing its soul is a community responsibility. Having met the folks at both Folk Legacy and Camsco (and you've all met Sandy Paton), I have no fears in that area. They're "our kind of people" and are in it for love of music, far more than for money. Seems to me that a resource/instrument exchange could also be done with the same light hearted friendliness that characterizes (most of) our discussions here. Whether it actually works out that way is up to us. |